European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?


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bond19821982

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I am from India. In my opinion, there are two types of fans here. The first type, like me, would remain awake at 3am to watch Utd play in carabao cup. We are genuinely disgusted by this proposed American way of football which ends free and fair competition. But there are a lot of people here who would only watch football when they have heard Messi or Ronaldo is playing tonight or a so called big game in UCL is on tv. I think ESL would be hugely popular among these casual viewers.
If United is playing Liverpool at Kolkata or Kerala , don't tell me you won't attend it. This is a golden opportunity for so many global fans to see their teams play a competitive game and that's exactly the driving factor here. I doubt people outside of UK care about such things in general especially when clubs has made it clear that they want to be part of domestic tournaments. Basically they will still respect the history and tradition of the local or legacy fans but will also go global to maximize the revenue potential.
 

Ole's screen

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Contrary to what they say, I genuinely think a lot of these owners only think about the short term profits, banking as much as they can, and if it collapses in the future, they just sell off and go, or leave the institutions to rot, with the clubs really being the ones that suffer, not them.
That would be the ultimate self own in my opinion. I hope the Glazers are smart enough to understand that owning and running this club even semi-competently will ensure none of their descendants ever have to work a day in their life to feed themselves.
 

Gator Nate

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To fix the problem you also have to understand this problem. For the drivers of the ESL this is as much about the failure of FFP as anything else. The ESL will have a salary cap and maybe a transfer cap. If UEFA had enforced their own rules this wouldn’t be happening. You are inevitably part of the situation you face.

I am disgusted by this whole debacle, but we need to fix what is broken for us to defeat this ludicrous proposition.
This is one of my thoughts, but then I realized that this is how they get around FFP but control each other. That said...

I assume it's greed from the US owners of Utd, Liverpool, and Arsenal; desperation from Juve, Inter, Milan, Real and Barca; Chelsea and City deciding they're better off part of the gang than stuck outside; and Spurs being delighted someone invited them to the party
This is probably closest to the truth. However, I cannot understand why the American-owned teams would marry themselves to the Italian and Spanish teams, who are all on the brink of financial ruin due primarily to poor management. I don't think this thing can last because half the teams will drag the other half over the cliff with them.

The thing that gets me the most is how it almost, but not quite, makes UEFA look like the good guy.

But FIFA won't stand for player bans, because it harms their product, and UEFA cannot afford to ban anyone from the remainder of the CL or EL tournaments because they need the money from the games too badly. They'll be in breach with their television partners if they suddenly start cancelling semis and/or finals.
 

Striker10

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That would be the ultimate self own in my opinion. I hope the Glazers are smart enough to understand that owning and running this club even semi-competently will ensure none of their descendants ever have to work a day in their life to feed themselves.
They hate the supporters more then they would even think to love anyone but themselves.
____
We can blame mega rich money distorting the market but these same people are invited to take part which shows it created an excuse in one sense but they are not normal where it counts. They have already pushed away loyal supporters and rebranded them. To me that is sick. So its not ab being smart I think. They are sly
 

Cast5

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The 67 people who’ve voted that they’re in favour of this are a disgrace and have no interest in football, casual fair weather fans who have no idea what the games about or what it means to people. The people who are “waiting for more information” are just as bad. The information that’s already came out is enough to be disgusted at the greed of these yank owners ruining our game. How can you even call yourselves football fans let alone United fans? Jokers.
 

amolbhatia50k

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The 67 people who’ve voted that they’re in favour of this are a disgrace and have no interest in football, casual fair weather fans who have no idea what the games about or what it means to people. The people who are “waiting for more information” are just as bad. The information that’s already came out is enough to be disgusted at the greed of these yank owners ruining our game. How can you even call yourselves football fans let alone United fans? Jokers.
Calm down with the outrage. People are allowed to have different views. Even Rooney said he wants to see full information and has given football more than most.
 

mariachi-19

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Good luck with banning, Real, Barca and United and their players... you’d just turned the CL into a glorified Europa league.

Anyway not of this is going to happen. This is just big clubs flexing on uefa that they do not need them and never have so they better pony up $$

United and Arsenal alone have carried Europa so they should receive shit loads more in money for just being in the competition.
 

bonothom

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What makes me laugh is the Premier league saying they'll ban these 6 clubs from domestic football. Hey good luck with selling them tv rights for £3 billion plus. I can see it now a must see top of the table clash between Everton and West Ham. Sky will be falling over themselves trying to buy them rights. The European Super League has been talked about for years. It was bound to happen sooner or later. The Premier league has only themselves to blame. They allowed these billionaires to buy these clubs so they now can't complain that they want to form their own competition. They are businessmen. Also makes me laugh that these same fans (City and Chelsea mainly) who have never complained about the vast sums pumped into their clubs are now moaning that these same people want to make money from their investments. At United it's kinda different as the Glazers have milked the club for years and the fans have had issues with them from the start.
 

Harry190

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Yeah, but as the government they do ultimately have the power to actually do things, even if the inclination is typically lacking. From a political standpoint the unpopularity of this makes it a good way to score points with the public. Obciously theres a lot you can do short of nationlisation as well, again, if the inclination is there.

Score points and create a diplomatic incident? There's limits to what they're willing to do. Nationalisation only occurs when public utilities are at stake or a tyrant comes to power.
 

northernfan

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I'm not sure how you can ban players. They have signed contracts and therefore obligated to play or they would be in breach of their contract. Can FiFA ban players that are representing their country. (for free) That would be a national body issue. I bet their would be backlash from players, if others were banned.(they do play for free). You could be talking about 400 of the best players in the world.
 

smi11ie

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It is just a horrible concept. 5 teams can qualify for the ESL. The founding teams will observe them from their lofty perch. If any player stands out then he will be purchased. As a result the likelyhood of the selling team qualifying the following year is reduced. It's a rigged system and against the principles of sport.
 

Halftrack

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Most reports said that they reluctantly joined just because they were told they would be left behind, not that they actually wanted to join. They indeed have no reason to be in this at all.
Same as PSG. Their owners bought the clubs to help improve their image abroad, particularly in the West, and lining up behind something that has generated this much outrage runs counter to that. After seeing the negative reception the ESL got, making a statement about not having any intention to join it was a no-brainer for PSG. I'm betting the heads at City are regretting letting themselves get press-ganged into this (if the reports are to be believed.)
 

zadefaraj

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UEFA is in discussions with Centricus Asset Management over a 6 billion-euro ($7.2 billion) financing package to overhaul its flagship soccer tournament and stop plans for a new breakaway Super League, according to people familiar with the matter.

The Switzerland-based sporting body is working with Centricus on a plan to fund a new-look UEFA Champions League tournament, the people said, asking not to be identified discussing confidential information.

Negotiations are ongoing and there’s no certainty UEFA and London-based Centricus will reach an agreement, according to the people. A representative for Centricus declined to comment, while a spokesperson for UEFA didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

It comes as UEFA prepares to battle with a new Super League that could mark the biggest upheaval of European soccer since the 1950s and end the Champions League’s decades-long reign as the world’s premier club contest.

A group of the world’s richest soccer clubs, including Manchester United and Real Madrid, announced plans for the breakaway league starting in August in a statementearly Monday. The marquee names -- six from England, three from Italy and three from Spain have signed up so far -- would play each other midweek as an alternative to the UEFA tournament. In addition to what will be 15 permanent teams, another five will qualify each year for the Super League.

The 4 billion-euro plan, which is being bankrolled by JPMorgan Chase & Co., has already drawn heavy criticism from domestic leagues and politicians. UEFA has said it could ban Super League team players from national teams that take part in the national Euro and World Cup competitions.

Centricus has been in talks with UEFA for a number of months regarding financing, a person familiar with the matter said. The investment firm had discussed an initial package of about 4.2 billion euros, which was raised to 6 billion euros following the rival Super League proposal, the person said.

Centricus, which oversees about $30 billion in assets according to its website, is well connected to large, wealthy institutions in the Middle East and Asia, and helped SoftBank Group Corp. raise $100 billion for its massive Vision Fund.

The firm was started in 2016 by Nizar Al-Bassam, a former investment banker at Deutsche Bank AG, and ex-Goldman Sachs Group Inc. partner Dalinc Ariburnu.

Despite running a small team from London, Centricus has become known for a string of opportunistic deals. It is currently working with Indian commodities tycoon Anil Agarwal on a plan to invest $10 billion in turnaround opportunities in India, and last year made a last-minute pitch to buy TikTok’s operations in several countries for $20 billion. In 2019 it made a foray into the high-end hotel and resorts sector and bought the iconic Capri Palace Hotel & Spa.

Within the sports industry, Centricus was also part of a consortium, alongside SoftBank and FIFA, to launch a brace of new soccer tournaments, and has held talks to invest in Swiss club FC Basel.

Proponents argue the Super League would create a more exciting competition because the game’s very top teams would play each other more often. It would also be lucrative for them, with permanent membership removing the uncertainty of the Champions League, whose teams must qualify annually or risk losing broadcasting and sponsorship revenue.

But the idea of creating a competition that removes the drama of a smaller team such as four-time champion Ajax winning the trophy or of a bigger club having to qualify in the first place, has angered supporter groups and former players, who say it rides roughshod over the history and culture of the club game.

Even if the Super League plan is stopped by its opponents, it represents a powerful threat that could help the clubs win more concessions from UEFA. The body’s plans to expand the Champions League from 32 to 36 teams and increase the number of games have irked some teams complaining the season already has too many matches.
 
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Halftrack

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Mindhunter

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The 67 people who’ve voted that they’re in favour of this are a disgrace and have no interest in football, casual fair weather fans who have no idea what the games about or what it means to people. The people who are “waiting for more information” are just as bad. The information that’s already came out is enough to be disgusted at the greed of these yank owners ruining our game. How can you even call yourselves football fans let alone United fans? Jokers.
Anybody who disagrees with you is a disgrace? You just showed a lot of maturity by profiling people you know nothing about. Calm the feck down and have a logical discussion.
 

Halftrack

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Anybody who disagrees with you is a disgrace? You just showed a lot of maturity by profiling people you know nothing about. Calm the feck down and have a logical discussion.
Anyone who thinks the ESL sounds like a good thing is a bit of a cnut, at least if their posting in this thread is anything to go by.
 

Cast5

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Anybody who disagrees with you is a disgrace? You just showed a lot of maturity by profiling people you know nothing about. Calm the feck down and have a logical discussion.
No, anyone that wants the ESL to go ahead is a disgrace, I thought I stated this in what I wrote originally.

I’ll say it again if you want, anyone who is for the ESL is a disgrace.
 

NK86

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I am from India. In my opinion, there are two types of fans here. The first type, like me, would remain awake at 3am to watch Utd play in carabao cup. We are genuinely disgusted by this proposed American way of football which ends free and fair competition. But there are a lot of people here who would only watch football when they have heard Messi or Ronaldo is playing tonight or a so called big game in UCL is on tv. I think ESL would be hugely popular among these casual viewers.
Keep your generalization to yourself. You don't speak on behalf of anyone, let alone the whole of a huge continent supporting football.
Get off your high horse and jog on.
 

pratyush_utd

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I wonder what more information is coming.
 

BaillyBaillyBailly

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Who will you support if this goes ahead as planned?
My dad and his family are united fans but my mother's side of the family are Huddersfield Town fans so that will be my team moving forward.
 

ti vu

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The 5 free spots is too few. It's happening folks, if Perez says it is, then it is.
They just try to fill those 20 teams up quickly to kickstart this competition. No way, they don't want to add team more down road.
 

The Oracle

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It is just a horrible concept. 5 teams can qualify for the ESL. The founding teams will observe them from their lofty perch. If any player stands out then he will be purchased. As a result the likelyhood of the selling team qualifying the following year is reduced. It's a rigged system and against the principles of sport.
It's a monopoly that will ensure the founding clubs will be forever minted

...everyone else can only wish they had a seat at the table when the European Super League was formed.

It's a sad day for football as we know it.
 

Marcus

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This is all a slippery slope. I think I read that when the European Cup first started, there were concerns it would affect domestic leagues. Now with the ESL, the same concerns are being raised. I think the main problem with this ESL is the fact that you have permanent members. It really is the in-your-face unfairness of it all.
 

el3mel

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See, I wouldn't have had half of my problems with this if those founder clubs weren't fixed, if they can get relegated from this league and have to re - promote to it again through the domestic league. Like, kickstart the competition with these 12 teams, give them ton of money, Ok, but relegate the 2 teams that finish last in each group, four total, and then, they promote the teams that finished top 4 in the domestic league instead. If they were among the top 4 anyway, then they can stay. If one of them misses the top 4, they don't return for next season and got replaced by whoever finished top 4 ahead of them.

This will make some of these teams still take the domestic league seriously as well, and will improve competitiveness of the groups after the first 5 positions are settled.

I just can't accept this elitist mentality. "We are the most important clubs in the world so we will have a permanent position no matter what and will save the football". This isn't a sport anymore.
 

ThatsGreat

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Keep your generalization to yourself. You don't speak on behalf of anyone, let alone the whole of a huge continent supporting football.
Get off your high horse and jog on.
It's a fair generalisation. I'm a little more than a casual fan and I'm onboard with this plan. Id much rather watch Arsenal play real Madrid than Dundalk. Always felt that the top four trophy was bs and not something a club should be targetting. A super league makes much more sense than an arbitrary cutoff to determine if Arsenal can play in the CL or not.
 

RooneyLegend

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UEFA are working to secure funding for an overhaul of the CL that will ensure that it stays the pinnacle of European club football. The talks have been ongoing for months, but the scope of the deal was increased from €4.2b to €6b in the wake of the ESL announcement.
Ain't no one watching a CL without the big clubs.
 

Jam

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Arsenal and Spurs :D

Arsenal are having second thought about being the whipping boys of ESL and Spurs are still confused why they are being pulled into this
It’s City and Chelsea, who also believe Spurs can be convinced to join them to make the whole thing collapse.
 

ti vu

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See, I wouldn't have had half of my problems with this if those founder clubs weren't fixed, if they can get relegated from this league and have to re - promote to it again through the domestic league. Like, kickstart the competition with these 12 teams, give them ton of money, Ok, but relegate the 2 teams that finish last in each group, four total, and then, they promote the teams that finished top 4 in the domestic league instead. If they were among the top 4 anyway, then they can stay. If one of them misses the top 4, they don't return for next season and got replaced by whoever finished top 4 ahead of them.

This will make some of these teams still take the domestic league seriously as well, and will improve competitiveness of the groups after the first 5 positions are settled.

I just can't accept this elitist mentality. "We are the most important clubs in the world so we will have a permanent position no matter what and will save the football". This isn't a sport anymore.
These founders clearly want want the security of guaranteed entry, so they can save on investment in bad seasons. Going through the domestic league, they're required to have a certain standard, especially leagues like PL that open door for takeover. They're afraid of richer guy joining the PL and throw money at the problem to turn thing upside down for them.

This has business priority written all over them in disguise of saving football (sport). They risk a lot pushing this move, so clearly they want some equal return for this. Relegation clause is never considered by them.
 

RooneyLegend

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They just try to fill those 20 teams up quickly to kickstart this competition. No way, they don't want to add team more down road.
This structure takes alot of teams with serious support out of the running. The likes of Roma, Ajax, Marseille. Don't know what they're thinking.
 

SmallCaine

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The 5 free spots is too few. It's happening folks, if Perez says it is, then it is.
Perez also said bayern and psg haven't been invited, the leaked docs say otherwise. Perez is blowing a lot of smoke, esl haven't even managed to sign up all 15 founder clubs but if perez is to be believed they have all signed legally binding documents. According to sam Lee who is pretty reliable with city news, this is not legally binding.
 
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RooneyLegend

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It’s City and Chelsea, who also believe Spurs can be convinced to join them to make the whole thing collapse.
Knowing Perez, the penalties to leaving those contracts are so severe that they are going no where.
 

pratyush_utd

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I think Saudi PIF bid to buy Newcastle and Covid 19 pandemic pushed this deal.
 

el3mel

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These founders clearly want want the security of guaranteed entry, so they can save on investment in bad seasons. Going through the domestic league, they're required to have a certain standard, especially leagues like PL that open door for takeover. They're afraid of richer guy joining the PL and throw money at the problem to turn thing upside down for them.

This has business priority written all over them in disguise of saving football (sport). They risk a lot pushing this move, so clearly they want some equal return for this. Relegation clause is never considered by them.
They basically want to dominate the sport. These 12 clubs will be far ahead of any other club in the world. They would be be gaining ten times more money annually in comparison to any other club. The gap between them and other clubs outside ESL will be huge few years later. Football will basically just revolve around these 12 clubs, feck the rest.
 

SmallCaine

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Good luck with banning, Real, Barca and United and their players... you’d just turned the CL into a glorified Europa league.

Anyway not of this is going to happen. This is just big clubs flexing on uefa that they do not need them and never have so they better pony up $$

United and Arsenal alone have carried Europa so they should receive shit loads more in money for just being in the competition.
The other option is let them play and win this season and for the champions to then not show up next season because esl is where they want to play.