Julian Nagelsmann | Sacked and replaced by Tuchel

do.ob

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True about Serie A, but it was just for a couple of seasons when Italian teams were broke, totally different to Bundesliga where clubes are healthy but still are happy to sell for cheap to Bayern.

In Spain I don't think it's the case, Atletico didn't happily sold Griezmann, they were forced to and still sold him for a huge sum.

Nevermind England, how often do star players get traded between the top 6?

I would remind you that Leipzig just pocketed a world record fee for Nagelsmann, but I assume we are at that point when the caf's finest come in to post their cliches.
 

Lagger

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Without any outside investment no team is going to be able to compete with Bayern on a consistent basis.
What an enormous load of bollocks. :lol:

How did Leicester win the league again? Tell me, I don't follow the EPL that closely. How did that happen? I must have missed Elon Musk slipping them a cool billion to keep up with you lot and somehow nobody noticed...
 

JPRouve

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What an enormous load of bollocks. :lol:

How did Leicester win the league again? Tell me, I don't follow the EPL that closely. How did that happen? I must have missed Elon Musk slipping them a cool billion to keep up with you lot and somehow nobody noticed...
Their owner sugar daddied them from Championship to PL champions. They were able to outbid teams like Lyon and Marseille in terms of wages for the likes of Kanté and Mahrez.

But that's beside the point, German clubs have wealthy owners some have been bankrolled for decades.
 

Lagger

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Their owner sugar daddied them from Championship to PL champions. They were able to outbid teams like Lyon and Marseille in terms of wages for the likes of Kanté and Mahrez.

But that's beside the point, German clubs have wealthy owners some have been bankrolled for decades.
Some are owned by the largest automaker on the planet and one of the top three global pharmaceuticals... not that it matters, cos we're idiots and actually try to follow FFA rules, unlike other clubs...

I think what's funny is how English fans aren't aware of just how much everyone in Germany despises RBL. If the club went bust tomorrow or was completely bought out so they had to field their U19 as first team, nobody would shed a tear aside from their own local fans (not even all people in Leipzig, if what I'm hearing is right). It's different with every other club. Why are German fans "defending" Bayern? Cos somehow there is a club on this planet a Dortmund fan dislikes even more than Schalke and us... it's amazing. :D
 

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Without any outside investment no team is going to be able to compete with Bayern on a consistent basis.
So... now we've gone from how it sucks to have sugardaddy clubs like Chelsea and City and PSG to absolutely needing that for the Bundesliga?

I mean, I kinda get the point: without the big money injections, none of those clubs, nor Leicester, would have been able to become mainstays in the top of their leagues. To my knowledge, Spurs is the only club in the EPL that made it up without a big money injection once United, Arsenal and Livepool had left the pack due to the financial jump the EPL made in the 90s and 00s. You could make a case that Bayern made a similar leap away from the other BL clubs in the last decade, and that only a big outside money injection can let clubs catch up.

But I rather like the old line of thought, that these money injections really mess up football and are no fun. In which case they aren't the solution. (Plus, as others have said, as Germany's biggest club, also internationally, you'd think Bayern would profit most anyway.)
 

roonster09

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So... now we've gone from how it sucks to have sugardaddy clubs like Chelsea and City and PSG to absolutely needing that for the Bundesliga?
No. One poster who said City and PSG spending is not a problem also said Bundesliga need outside investors.

Different fans have different opinions, IIRC @RooneyLegend always argued City's spending shouldn't be excuse for us or anyone.
 

RooneyLegend

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So... now we've gone from how it sucks to have sugardaddy clubs like Chelsea and City and PSG to absolutely needing that for the Bundesliga?

I mean, I kinda get the point: without the big money injections, none of those clubs, nor Leicester, would have been able to become mainstays in the top of their leagues. To my knowledge, Spurs is the only club in the EPL that made it up without a big money injection once United, Arsenal and Livepool had left the pack due to the financial jump the EPL made in the 90s and 00s. You could make a case that Bayern made a similar leap away from the other BL clubs in the last decade, and that only a big outside money injection can let clubs catch up.

But I rather like the old line of thought, that these money injections really mess up football and are no fun. In which case they aren't the solution. (Plus, as others have said, as Germany's biggest club, also internationally, you'd think Bayern would profit most anyway.)
That old line of thought made sense when there wasnt as much money in football as there is now. Back in them days footballers didn't desert their clubs after one good season because the big clubs couldn't quadruple their salaries overnight. That simply isn't the case now.
 

SAFMUTD

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I would remind you that Leipzig just pocketed a world record fee for Nagelsmann, but I assume we are at that point when the caf's finest come in to post their cliches.
They haven't pocketed anything yet, the fee hasn't been disclosed. Still it may be a high fee for a manager but can you imagine a team in England paying a fee to take Klopp or Pep? I just wouldn't happen.
 

JPRouve

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Some are owned by the largest automaker on the planet and one of the top three global pharmaceuticals... not that it matters, cos we're idiots and actually try to follow FFA rules, unlike other clubs...

I think what's funny is how English fans aren't aware of just how much everyone in Germany despises RBL. If the club went bust tomorrow or was completely bought out so they had to field their U19 as first team, nobody would shed a tear aside from their own local fans (not even all people in Leipzig, if what I'm hearing is right). It's different with every other club. Why are German fans "defending" Bayern? Cos somehow there is a club on this planet a Dortmund fan dislikes even more than Schalke and us... it's amazing. :D
I'm not in the football should be fair camp so in theory I shouldn't have an issue with the RB Leipzig, if it wasn't the RB Leipzig. They took the piss at every turns and even with the RasenBallsport, iirc they couldn't use Red Bull, so they imaged that subterfuge. I'm pretty sure that a large amount of people rightfully believe that their name is Red Bull Leipzig.
 

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No. One poster who said City and PSG spending is not a problem also said Bundesliga need outside investors.

Different fans have different opinions, IIRC @RooneyLegend always argued City's spending shouldn't be excuse for us or anyone.
That old line of thought made sense when there wasnt as much money in football as there is now. Back in them days footballers didn't desert their clubs after one good season because the big clubs couldn't quadruple their salaries overnight. That simply isn't the case now.
Yeah OK, fair enough.

For what it's worth, I don't think United can point to City's spending as the reason of City being ahead right now, given that United have largely the same spending capacity (and indeed haven't spent much less on fees or wages, from what I understand). I also think that outside investors in the EPL hasn't been such a bad thing (although the persons investing aren't all that awesome), since the enormous financial advantage of the top clubs made any other way of catching up extremely hard. All that could indeed translate to the Bundesliga - except that I personally deeply dislike the big money side of current football, so while the Bundesliga hasn't quite gotten there just yet, I hope they'll find a different ways for clubs to bridge the gap to Bayern.

(For that matter, German fans on here agree. The idea that some seem to hold that non-Bayern fan enjoy Bayern's dominance is ridiculous. As I said a couple of pages back, there has been a big discussion on that in the German football thread last week. The problem is just that there is no simple or obvious solution.)
 

do.ob

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They haven't pocketed anything yet, the fee hasn't been disclosed. Still it may be a high fee for a manager but can you imagine a team in England paying a fee to take Klopp or Pep? I just wouldn't happen.
You mean like when this place was debating whether United should just take Poch?
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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This guys isn't even eligible for a Covid vaccine till the end of the year and he has got a job in which it is literally harder to not win a trophy every season. Talk about over achieving.
 

Hansi Fick

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"Honestly, it's disgusting how Bayern can just completely dismember a rival club, publicly and in broad daylight, and noone bats an eyelash, but boo hoo when the Saudis dismember a single guy, indoors and quietly, everyone's up in arms and clamoring" @cyberman
 

Suedesi

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I thought the same during his early years at Dortmund. And then I happened to witness him completely obliterate Madrid with 4 goals all on his own as if they insulted his mother or something... man that dude was on a mission. He has always had the potential for these things, but now he added insane consistency to it. I'm actually disappointed when he doesn't score a goal per game at least. Things will change, but I very much appreciate our lucky star for getting him.

P.S.: Why would I kill you, I think you're suffering enough right now.
What a match that was! I've never seen a Mourinho team so utterly annihilated on and off the ball, the beginning of the second half was electric it seemed like Dortmund could score at will. Even the goal that Real scored it was a gift by Hummels I think...

Lewa was def a star then, I think there were reports of United being in for him at some exorbitant price - we're talking 60-70million when the going rate was 30-45 million.
 

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Oh look, a club of similar stature both domestically and internationally as United being run well and appointing new managers, rebuilding their squad for sustained future success, without a single use of the words 'progress' or 'transition', working within their means to conduct business efficiently and with foresight. Their owners and board must actually want to be successful or something.

On a serious note, we should be on a similar level to a club like Bayern, domestic success isnt guaranteed with the oil money boys around but could you ever imagine them not being in a title race for one season? And what would they do about the situation if it ever arose? They are an elite club, behaving like one. We are no longer elite sadly.
Nail on the head.

We were once an elite club on the field and off the field (commercial side). Sadly these days we're only elite on a commercial field, the football side is a disaster and has been since Fergie and Gill retired.

Bayern are amazingly well run. KHR has done an outstanding job, looks like the transition plan is well thought out with Oli Kahn and in appointing a young promising coach they are putting themselves in a good position. One bad appointment is all it takes to lose the winning streak, ask Juventus re: Pirlo.
 

Suedesi

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For the all the flak that the big breakaway clubs in England have got lately (completely deservedly, of course), the rivalries that exist between them would prevent this kind of move. A player in their prime seldom joins a rival. A manager? Not a chance.

It is shocking how frequently Bayern poach the best talent in their own league (including managers now) from their direct rivals. For the Bundesliga as a whole, its a travesty.
Roberto Baggio played for Fiorentina, Juventus, Inter and AC Milan. The biggest Italian player ever, switching rival teams, when Serie A was at its pomp.

Switches between Inter and AC Milan are so common, Juve and Milan, Roma, Napoli and other teams also. Players go from Atletico to Real Madrid and vice versa, from Barca to Atletico and vice versa and all the lower teams as well.

Just get over it.
 

Dancfc

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True about Serie A, but it was just for a couple of seasons when Italian teams were broke, totally different to Bundesliga where clubes are healthy but still are happy to sell for cheap to Bayern.

In Spain I don't think it's the case, Atletico didn't happily sold Griezmann, they were forced to and still sold him for a huge sum.

Nevermind England, how often do star players get traded between the top 6?
We maybe in that position now but that's largely down to the economic situation that arised from first the investment that allowed Arsenal, us then City to compete with you and then the TV deals that came as a by product of the competitive rivalries and competition between you and Arsenal especially but too an extent you and us aswell that allowed the PL brand to explode.

In the 90s United were toying with the league (is you guys buying Cole of Newcastle mid season back when they were in and round the right end of the table "better" than what Bayern have done with Upamecano?) without Fiszman getting his wallet out and then Roman and Shieks coming along who realistically would have stopped United with Fergie about? (It was hard enough with the investment let alone without) and then there's every chance the players that came through at us or Arsenal (or were signed as young players) would have looked at you sweeping up every trophy under the sun and wanted a bit of it, then the TV deals wouldn't have come to the volume it did and we'd likely still be in the very cycle today.

Basically for this league the right things happened at the right time which has allowed there to be more "top" teams, the Bundi didn't get as lucky.
 

VorZakone

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What an enormous load of bollocks. :lol:

How did Leicester win the league again? Tell me, I don't follow the EPL that closely. How did that happen? I must have missed Elon Musk slipping them a cool billion to keep up with you lot and somehow nobody noticed...
His point was that nobody was gonna compete with Bayern on a consistent basis. Your example of Leicester means nothing really, it was an anomaly.
 

JSArsenal

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Sure, Van Persie never happened, and Sterling isn't a City player now...



If we don't poach them, other wealthy foreign clubs do.
Just to add to this, Ashley Cole went to Chelsea after we made the CL final and two years after we won the league. United tried to buy Vieira and Gerrard was a threatening phone call away from going to Chelsea, allegedly.

United bought Cantona a season or two after Leeds won the Championship? Someone correct me on that if I'm wrong.
 

JPRouve

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His point was that nobody was gonna compete with Bayern on a consistent basis. Your example of Leicester means nothing really, it was an anomaly.
Was that his point? He talked about 50+1 and investments, as if german clubs didn't currently have very wealthy owners/shareholders that have been bankrolling their clubs for decades.
 

Suedesi

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The “big 6” panicked because there is so much money running around the PL that clubs outside the “big 6” can afford enough quality to compete for the CL spots. Not as fun as one club gets to buy whoever they want (not an opinion but a fact) but then again what is.
Judging by how poorly the communication and the strategy of the entire doomed ESL was, I doubt much thought went into the "big 6" other than "ah cool, we can make more money, count us in". It was such a brain-dead idea devoid of any strategic thought and planning that I'm not surprised to see it fail.

That is not to say that the ringleaders Perez and Agnelli didn't think this through - their teams are in deep trouble, and their leagues also. They absolutely want to torpedo the PL and get their paws on that TV cash as soon as possible. It pains them that Aston Villa or Newcastle make as much money in TV revenue as the big 3 in Italy or the big 3 in Spain. And that's because of the revenue sharing agreements, making the PL such a great product for international audiences, whereas most people would struggle to watch more than 4-5 Serie A or La Liga games. The ESL is/was the answer for Madrid and Juve, I'm not sure it is the answer the big 6.

Another point, that @JPRouve made earlier that makes a lot of sense. Bayern weren't part of the ESL either because they refused to be part of it (as most people assumed) or because they weren't invited (as Perez claims). People dismissed Perez claim as the ramblings of a lunatic, but If I was Perez I would NOT want Bayern in the ESL and be forced to share the TV revenue with them. Bayern's commercial agreements are on another level, if they were to get Television money as well on par with Madrid/Barcelona they would easily eclipse the Spanish teams on the money tables. By a lot. And instead of being 400m EUR in debt like Real or 980m EUR in debt like Barcelona, Bayern turn a profit... and the gap would get even larger.

I don't want come across as a Bayern shill, but there's a lot to admire in how they run the club off the field. If none other than Sir Alex Ferguson holds them up as an example that United should follow in how to run the club, that says it all IMO.
 

cyberman

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"Honestly, it's disgusting how Bayern can just completely dismember a rival club, publicly and in broad daylight, and noone bats an eyelash, but boo hoo when the Saudis dismember a single guy, indoors and quietly, everyone's up in arms and clamoring" @cyberman
What, in all thats holy, is this shit show of a post?
 

cyberman

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Sure, Van Persie never happened, and Sterling isn't a City player now...



If we don't poach them, other wealthy foreign clubs do.
They didnt all go to the same club though, thats the difference isnt it?
 

qzizzle

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DFB pretends it can not pay a fee for a coach.
 

Acrobat7

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Aren't you guys getting DFB to cough that up (or similar) for Flick? So essentially DFB will pay Red Bull and that's that ;)
Nope. Bayern and Flick agreed to dissolve/terminate the contract. No rumors of Flick paying Bayern.
 

JPRouve

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True about Serie A, but it was just for a couple of seasons when Italian teams were broke, totally different to Bundesliga where clubes are healthy but still are happy to sell for cheap to Bayern.

In Spain I don't think it's the case, Atletico didn't happily sold Griezmann, they were forced to and still sold him for a huge sum.

Nevermind England, how often do star players get traded between the top 6?
It happened in Italy during the best years of Serie A in the 90s early 2000s, you even have some comical transfers like Inter swapping Pirlo to Milan. And which Bayern rival happily sold a player to Bayern?
 

Longshanks

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Yeah OK, fair enough.

For what it's worth, I don't think United can point to City's spending as the reason of City being ahead right now, given that United have largely the same spending capacity (and indeed haven't spent much less on fees or wages, from what I understand). I also think that outside investors in the EPL hasn't been such a bad thing (although the persons investing aren't all that awesome), since the enormous financial advantage of the top clubs made any other way of catching up extremely hard. All that could indeed translate to the Bundesliga - except that I personally deeply dislike the big money side of current football, so while the Bundesliga hasn't quite gotten there just yet, I hope they'll find a different ways for clubs to bridge the gap to Bayern.

(For that matter, German fans on here agree. The idea that some seem to hold that non-Bayern fan enjoy Bayern's dominance is ridiculous. As I said a couple of pages back, there has been a big discussion on that in the German football thread last week. The problem is just that there is no simple or obvious solution.)

I would probably help if Bayern's domestic rivals didnt let all there best talent go to Bayern for buttons.

30mill for hummels from there biggest rivals, 30 mill for pavard? Gortekza on a free?

For comparison we would have to pay 60million plus to make similar signings from our domestic rivals that's if we could actually get them in the first place.

Lepzig might do the league some good they can at least compete financially with Bayern and wont allow bayern to hoover up all the best talent.

The French league was dominated by Lyon in the 00's they won loads and loads of titles on the bounce and the rest of the league started stagnating, PSG came in with the oil money and broke the cycle. Unfortunately Lyon cant compete with PSG now but I dint think it will come to that in the german league.

If it wasnt for the oil money coming into the premier league with City and Chelsea we would probably still be dominating the league but it's now a ultra competitive league where there are 5-6 clubs with the resources to realistically compete for the title.

The big clubs have attempted to monopolise leagues in there favour and the only way to counteract it is to fight fire with fire, I'm not saying I agree with it or it's the right thing to do but it's better than a monopolized league.
 

SAFMUTD

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You mean like when this place was debating whether United should just take Poch?
Yes, but I think we can agree theres a big difference between Spurs and ManUtd, one is the biggest club in the country and the other one is just popular. To put in a correct perspective it would be as if in the season City won the title they would have paid Liverpool and take Klopp and VVD.

Bayern took the arguably 2 most important people in their closest competitor squad. I mean we can paint it how we want but bottom line is Bundesliga clubs are feeders to Bayern. This is not a one time thing, they have done it repeatedly over the years. One thing is to buy players from lesser clubs which all top teams do, a whole different thing is to buy players from straight competitors for peanuts as bayern does.

Most players in the bundesliga dream to play for Bayern, that along with the fact that there isnt really any other big club there results in every player weting their pants when Bayern shows interest putting the other clubs in a massive disadvantage. Is as if you do well enough in the league maybe Bayern will buy you.

Dont believe me? let me mention some examples from recent years.

Goretzka - free (market value at the time was 40M)
Gnabry - 8M (market value at the time was 20M)
Pavard - 30M ( (market value at the time was 35M)
Hummels - 35M ( (market value at the time was 38M)
Lewandowski - free (market value at the time was 50M)
Mario Gotze - 37M (market value at the time was 45M)
Mandzukic - 13M (market value was 14M)
Dante - 4.5M ( market value at the time was 8M)
Neuer - 30M (market value at the time was 28M)
Upamecano - 42M (market value at the time was 60M)

So basically all their big signings from the last 10 years from the bundesliga were either free or below their market value. Some might say hey they have great negotiators they get great deals, well it seems it justs happens in germany. When they buy from outside is a different story.

Javi Martinez - 40M (market value at the time was 30M)
Bernat - 10M (market value at the time was 4M)
Douglas Costa - 32M (market value at the time was 23M)
Renato Sanches - 35M (market value at the time was 20M)
Tolisso - 41.5M (market value at the time was 22M)
Lucas Hernandez - 80M (market value at the time was 70M)

Anyone claiming Bayern doesnt have a special condition in germany is fooling himself.
 

Gilgamesh

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How much did Bayern pay Leizpig for this guy?
I think 30 million Euros. Although it wasn't announced officially, RB boss Mintzlaff joked at the end of today's presser that any additional staffer would cost "another 30 million".
 

JPRouve

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I would probably help if Bayern's domestic rivals didnt let all there best talent go to Bayern for buttons.

30mill for hummels from there biggest rivals, 30 mill for pavard? Gortekza on a free?

For comparison we would have to pay 60million plus to make similar signings from our domestic rivals that's if we could actually get them in the first place.

Lepzig might do the league some good they can at least compete financially with Bayern and wont allow bayern to hoover up all the best talent.

The French league was dominated by Lyon in the 00's they won loads and loads of titles on the bounce and the rest of the league started stagnating, PSG came in with the oil money and broke the cycle. Unfortunately Lyon cant compete with PSG now but I dint think it will come to that in the german league.

If it wasnt for the oil money coming into the premier league with City and Chelsea we would probably still be dominating the league but it's now a ultra competitive league where there are 5-6 clubs with the resources to realistically compete for the title.

The big clubs have attempted to monopolise leagues in there favour and the only way to counteract it is to fight fire with fire, I'm not saying I agree with it or it's the right thing to do but it's better than a monopolized league.
Hummels was a Bayern player sold to Dortmund and he wanted to comeback with only one year left on his contract, it's a similar situation to RVP who was sold for less than 30m to United. Pavard had a clause on his contract and Stuttgart weren't rivals but relegation contenders, they have not been good in more than 10 years. Goretzka was a prospect who refused to extend for Schalke who are astonishingly incompetent.

As for Ligue 1, the league didn't stagnate due to Lyon that's completely nonsensical, in the 2000s France had an issue with player development and clubs weren't producing as many quality players, a bias in favor of athleticism over technique, funnily enough Lyon were one of the few clubs that didn't really follow that trend and produced good players during that period of time. PSG has also nothing to do with breaking the cycle, PSG won their first title of the QSI era 5 years after Lyon won their last title, Bordeaux, Lilles, Marseille and Montpellier won the league before PSG. And the reason behind the end of the cycle is that Lyon was planning for their new stadium and sports complex, they were supposed to rely on their academy and a bunch of signings that they made around 2009-2010, the issue being that most of these players underwelmed and Lyon didn't had the money to repair their mistakes.
 

Boavista

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I would probably help if Bayern's domestic rivals didnt let all there best talent go to Bayern for buttons.

30mill for hummels from there biggest rivals, 30 mill for pavard? Gortekza on a free?

For comparison we would have to pay 60million plus to make similar signings from our domestic rivals that's if we could actually get them in the first place.
I think Hummels was in his last year of contract, so that limits the fee quite a bit, so it wasn't exactly that cheap. Pavard had just been relegated with Stuttgart, and if I recall correctly he didn't exactly have a stellar year, though I might be wrong there. Again not a bad fee, nor were Stutgart a rival at the time. Luke Shaw didn't cost much more either, under different circumstances.
And what are you going to do about a player who won't renew his contract? Could have sold him a year before, but he wasn't really that good at Schalke either, so just bad luck and management on Schalke's part.
 

do.ob

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Yes, but I think we can agree theres a big difference between Spurs and ManUtd, one is the biggest club in the country and the other one is just popular. To put in a correct perspective it would be as if in the season City won the title they would have paid Liverpool and take Klopp and VVD.

Bayern took the arguably 2 most important people in their closest competitor squad. I mean we can paint it how we want but bottom line is Bundesliga clubs are feeders to Bayern. This is not a one time thing, they have done it repeatedly over the years. One thing is to buy players from lesser clubs which all top teams do, a whole different thing is to buy players from straight competitors for peanuts as bayern does.

Most players in the bundesliga dream to play for Bayern, that along with the fact that there isnt really any other big club there results in every player weting their pants when Bayern shows interest putting the other clubs in a massive disadvantage. Is as if you do well enough in the league maybe Bayern will buy you.

Dont believe me? let me mention some examples from recent years.

Goretzka - free (market value at the time was 40M)
Gnabry - 8M (market value at the time was 20M)
Pavard - 30M ( (market value at the time was 35M)
Hummels - 35M ( (market value at the time was 38M)
Lewandowski - free (market value at the time was 50M)
Mario Gotze - 37M (market value at the time was 45M)
Mandzukic - 13M (market value was 14M)
Dante - 4.5M ( market value at the time was 8M)
Neuer - 30M (market value at the time was 28M)
Upamecano - 42M (market value at the time was 60M)

So basically all their big signings from the last 10 years from the bundesliga were either free or below their market value. Some might say hey they have great negotiators they get great deals, well it seems it justs happens in germany. When they buy from outside is a different story.

Javi Martinez - 40M (market value at the time was 30M)
Bernat - 10M (market value at the time was 4M)
Douglas Costa - 32M (market value at the time was 23M)
Renato Sanches - 35M (market value at the time was 20M)
Tolisso - 41.5M (market value at the time was 22M)
Lucas Hernandez - 80M (market value at the time was 70M)

Anyone claiming Bayern doesnt have a special condition in germany is fooling himself.
The goal posts and the points you appear to be trying to make are shifting so quickly I find it hard to keep up.

And all that very hard work you must have put into researching this and you have missed that a fair amount of those players left on release clauses? That 30 is in fact a larger number than 28?

When Bayern use expiring contracts to sign players for free it screws other clubs, but it's hardly the reason (but rather a consequence) why they have their advantage and neither is it when they sign players like Pavard from, at the time, relegation fodder or Gnabry from Arsenal. I don't know how to break this gently, but they are an English club.


I can appreciate that some people may be confused about this after this year's CL, but Leipzig are actually not an elite club and Spurs is actually a more fitting comparison for them.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
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The goal posts and the points you appear to be trying to make are shifting so quickly I find it hard to keep up.

And all that very hard work you must have put into researching this and you have missed that a fair amount of those players left on release clauses? That 30 is in fact a larger number than 28?

When Bayern use expiring contracts to sign players for free it screws other clubs, but it's hardly the reason (but rather a consequence) why they have their advantage and neither is it when they sign players like Pavard from, at the time, relegation fodder or Gnabry from Arsenal. I don't know how to break this gently, but they are an English club.


I can appreciate that some people may be confused about this after this year's CL, but Leipzig are actually not an elite club and Spurs is actually a more fitting comparison for them.
They bought Gnabry from Werder, if I remember correctly it's Gnabry that played it well, Werder bought him for cheap and he demanded a very low clause in his contract since he was in demand at that price but wanted game time.
 

do.ob

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They bought Gnabry from Werder, if I remember correctly it's Gnabry that played it well, Werder bought him for cheap and he demanded a very low clause in his contract since he was in demand at that price but wanted game time.
As far as I know Bayern helped Werder finance Gnabry in exchange for of a cheap option on him.
 

HTG

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They bought Gnabry from Werder, if I remember correctly it's Gnabry that played it well, Werder bought him for cheap and he demanded a very low clause in his contract since he was in demand at that price but wanted game time.
The Gnabry deal was very complicated. We basically financed the deal for Werder. Wenger admitted as much. He never really was their player to begin with.