What’s your best case outcome from these protests?

[diarm]

Agree with all except the CEO bit. We need to make money from sponsorships etc to compete with City. I’d go further in terms of dividends though and ask for percentage of shares to be sold to fan groups with the money invested in paying off the debt. The best case scenario for me is legislative reform and the glazers coming to the negotiating table.

Having a football first CEO does not negate our ability to make money from sponsorships, it merely ensures that making money from sponsorships is not the sole and guiding focus of the club.

Manchester United will always be able to make money. I am not calling to disband our commercial divisions, only to reestablish our priorities. Somebody like Richard Arnold could still do his job under the direction of someone like Edwin Van der Sar, rather than the other way round, where Arnold becomes Woodward 2.0 and leads a complicated hierarchy of yes men whose jobs it is to try and make football work around our commercial goals.

 

[Gee Male]

50 + 1 is an absolute non runner, zero chance.

Imagine if the UK government tried to put something like that in place, effectively legislating for owners to have control of their asset taken from them against their wishes.

Just think of the knock on impact. As an example, you would 100% have companies in the manufacturing industry looking at that and thinking that if they were to make an unpopular decision, for example move some operations overseas with redundancies in the UK, the government will have precedence to enforce some type of employee influence to put an end to that.

In the context of building trust with companies post Brexit, no government is going to take voting control out of the hands of the owners of companies.

The German model I understand is years old, this isn't something that can be parachuted in easily now.

Genuinely, forget about that, never going to happen.

 

[Sarni]

Saudis are probably the only ones who would fulfill the requirement of paying $4bn for the club and not necessarily wanting to take any profit out of the club. Any other ownership group would want some sort of return on investment and we would be back to square one after 2-3 years when fans realize that.

50+1 can only happen if government decides to repossess all private owned clubs now. I imagine that would cost north of £100bn+ of taxpayer’s money. Even in non-pandemic times this is a non-starter, not to mention adverse effects it would have on other branches of the economy.

 

[King7Eric]

I'm all for the protests but I also recognise so far we haven't done nearly enough to make a real difference to the Glazers.

My best case scenario is we create enough negative publicity for the Glazers to make them want to appease us. If that is not via selling then hopefully the following-
1. In the short term they invest in the team.
2. They invest in repair of Old Trafford and development of the adjoining areas.
3. They put money in remodeling Carrington.
4. In the long term they set up agencies who give fan groups an active voice regarding the direction of the club (This one is highly unlikely I know).

 

[Tincanalley]

It's a be careful what you wish for in my opinion. I absolutely do not want suadi ownership, I think that would be me done with the club.

Best case scenario is someone like bezos comes in, who is just in it to be a success, rather than being tied to a regime that stones people to death etc.

Being ultra realistic the Glazers maybe focus a bit more and actually start caring about the clubs progress beyond getting into the top 4 every other year, and permanently shelve plans for a breakaway league.

But I fear that even that is asking too much of them.

There won’t be Saudi ownership. Their Newcastle experience probably shows that. There would not even be a Glazer type takeover if it was happening today.
We are facing a period of at least some regulation over ownership. Enough is enough. We don’t want the Glazers at the club. They have disrespected fans, staff, the club. Out is where we want them. Not here. Focus off, Glazers. Go suck the lifeblood of some other entity.

 

[Tincanalley]

Saudis are probably the only ones who would fulfill the requirement of paying $4bn for the club and not necessarily wanting to take any profit out of the club. Any other ownership group would want some sort of return on investment and we would be back to square one after 2-3 years when fans realize that.

50+1 can only happen if government decides to repossess all private owned clubs now. I imagine that would cost north of £100bn+ of taxpayer’s money. Even in non-pandemic times this is a non-starter, not to mention adverse effects it would have on other branches of the economy.

Not so sure about that. What if govt decided to (along with FA) to punish the big six owners, and start by regulating them?

 

[Champ]

With 4bn quid? Hahha

By buying much a much more profitable business for a start.

Where's this magical £4bn come from?
United are valued at £3bn, that doesn't mean an owner has to stump up £3bn cash straight away!

You also forget that the club has debt floating around, which adds an element of negotiation in favour of the buyer.

I don't expect buyers to be rushing to acquire the club, but any sniff of the Glazers selling and there will definitely be potential suitors.

The ideal scenario would be a consortium with a fan spokesperson, that way the buyout is split and the fans have a voice.

 

[Tincanalley]

I'm all for the protests but I also recognise so far we haven't done nearly enough to make a real difference to the Glazers.

My best case scenario is we create enough negative publicity for the Glazers to make them want to appease us. If that is not via selling then hopefully the following-
1. In the short term they invest in the team.
2. They invest in repair of Old Trafford and development of the adjoining areas.
3. They put money in remodeling Carrington.
4. In the long term they set up agencies who give fan groups an active voice regarding the direction of the club (This one is highly unlikely I know).

I’m all for the protests, as long as we keep our dear leaders? They can be reformed? They will promise to do better? Another letter, maybe, from Joel?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Where's this magical £4bn come from?
United are valued at £3bn, that doesn't mean an owner has to stump up £3bn cash straight away!

So if the new owner doesn’t have 3bn quid, where it is coming from? Personal debt?

 

[Eric_the_Red99]

The only potential positive outcome I can see is that the government takes notices of the widespread anger towards owners like the Glazers, realises there are votes in it, and pushes for something like the 50+1 rule.

I really can’t see the protests having much impact on the Glazers directly. The club is just a cash cow for them, and as long as the money keeps coming in they don’t care how unpopular they are.

 

[Tincanalley]

Where's this magical £4bn come from?
United are valued at £3bn, that doesn't mean an owner has to stump up £3bn cash straight away!

You also forget that the club has debt floating around, which adds an element of negotiation in favour of the buyer.

I don't expect buyers to be rushing to acquire the club, but any sniff of the Glazers selling and there will definitely be potential suitors.

The ideal scenario would be a consortium with a fan spokesperson, that way the buyout is split and the fans have a voice.

Plus, with regulation, the amount being discussed is invariably much less. Key to this is legally diminishing the value of the asset. 50+1 means lots of potential small and medium investors and maybe - maybe - a 49 percenter?

 

[Sarni]

Not so sure about that. What if govt decided to (along with FA) to punish the big six owners, and start by regulating them?

Regulating them how though, without violating other laws?

 

[Sarni]

So if the new owner doesn’t have 3bn quid, where it is coming from? Personal debt?

Debt put against the asset they are purchasing.

 

[crossy1686]

So the 50 + 1 rule is never going to happen, and if it somehow does, it's not a guarantee for success. In fact, German teams do the worst across the top leagues when it comes to CL titles.

In regards to the best case outcome, the Glazers sell? My biggest concern is who they sell to. Who's got $4b lying around to buy a club where you're not allowed to get a return on your investment without fans storming the stadium and protesting? Absolutely no one from the UK for a start, or who cares about the fans, and if it's the Saudis then it's the death of the club as we know it.

I hate to say it but the only way we can realistically get what we want is if the club get relegated, lose all it's value and become affordable to someone who isn't a massive cnut. Would any of us take that for a potential long term solution to the issue?

 

[Tincanalley]

Regulating them how though, without violating other laws?

There are many possible approaches. Some are already in train.
https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2833

 

[diarm]

I hate to say it but the only way we can realistically get what we want is if the club get relegate, lose all it's value and become affordable to someone who isn't a massive cnut. Would any of us take that for a potential long term solution to the issue?

In a heartbeat.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Debt put against the asset they are purchasing.

I thought so, but isn’t a LBO illegal now in UK?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

In a heartbeat.

feck me.

 

[Tincanalley]

No one owner should own the huge controlling share the Glazers have. No football club should have the financial structure the Glazers have, or the boardroom structure (lacking local community, supporter, football input).
Make them divest. It’s been done before.

 

[crossy1686]

feck me.

It's probably the only viable way to get a positive resolution

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's probably the only viable way to get a positive resolution

What’s positive about ruining everything Fergie worked for 25 years to cement? Which is our place as a global football super power?

Yeah, sounds shit. Sounds like an eternity behind City, Chelsea and Liverpool so that people can feel good about a new man/woman running the club. Maybe we’ll be like Leeds in 15 years, yay!

Government legislation is a much better way of maintaining what Fergie built AND giving the fans a vote.

 

[Stevondo8]

Realistically, just more engagement from the Glazers. Have them show that they care about the club and yhe. Invest in the stadium, invest in the area around the stadium, invest in the training facilities. Just engage with the club!

pipe dream, a billionaire fan buys the club...guess there’s not many of them knocking about though.

Ultimately, yesterday won’t change anything. If the same happens for all remaining games...then maybe.

 

[diarm]

feck me.

There are hundreds of clubs outside the Premier League. City were down there a decade ago and are odds on to be in a Champions League final at the end of the month. Football doesn't die just because you're watching in the Championship for a couple of seasons.

Our club is more important than this seasons 2nd place and even a couple of seasons outside the top flight. I'd take it without hesitation if it meant getting rid of the Glazers and I would enjoy the journey back up to the top.

 

[diarm]

What’s positive about ruining everything Fergie worked for 25 years to cement? Which is our place as a global football super power?

Yeah, sounds shit.

The Glazers already did that.

 

[crossy1686]

What’s positive about ruining everything Fergie worked for 25 years to cement? Which is our place as a global football super power?

Yeah, sounds shit.

I never said it was positive nor do I want it to happen but there's no one in the world with a spare $4b and honest intentions or morals to buy us out currently. So we have to reduce in value massively.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I never said it was positive nor do I want it to happen but there's no one in the world with a spare $4b and honest intentions or morals to buy us out currently. So we have to reduce in value massively.

And reducing our value means devastating 30 years of building this club to the super power it is, it risks massive debt, bankruptcy and losing our WELL EARNED place at the top table possibly forever.
It sounds absolutely shite.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

The Glazers already did that.

No they didn’t, we’re second in the table and even during our tough years we could still attract Pogba, Zlatan et all to our great club.

 

[crossy1686]

And reducing our value means devastating 30 years of building this club to the super power it is, it risks massive debt, bankruptcy and losing our WELL EARNED place at the top table possibly forever.
It sounds absolutely shite.

It absolutely is, I completely agree but while the club is currently valued at $4b there is no other solution. So we suck it up or second best case scenario is we put enough pressure on the Glazers to be more involved in the running and investment of the club

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

There are hundreds of clubs outside the Premier League. City were down there a decade ago and are odds on to be in a Champions League final at the end of the month.

Ah so a gulf state owned club is a cracking example, we just need to go down to League 1, get Paul Dikov in and then wait a decade for an oil state to buy us.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

. I'd take it without hesitation if it meant getting rid of the Glazers and I would enjoy the journey back up to the top.

The likelihood of getting back to the top in that scenario is based soley on state ownership, something we could get without making it cheap for the wankers and ruining 30 years of hard work from so many good people at this club.

 

[diarm]

And reducing our value means devastating 30 years of building this club to the super power it is, it risks massive debt, bankruptcy and losing our WELL EARNED place at the top table possibly forever.
It sounds absolutely shite.

How would it mean losing our place at the top table forever? We're the best supported club in the world - that's not changing just because we spend a season in the Championship.

We're second in a title race we haven't looked like challenging for since January. We haven't got past a Champions League quarter final in a decade. The idea of us being anywhere near the top table is cute, but it doesn't reflect reality and it's far more likely to be lost forever under the Glazers than it would be because of a year outside the Prem.

Hysteria about bankruptcy and massive debt because a club the size of United got relegated is ridiculous, particularly when you look at the massive debt we hold while you think we're at the top table.

United generates enough money to compete with oil states legally, when we're not being hamstrung by parasitic owners. We would take a financial hit for a couple of years but nothing that couldn't be regained on the way back up.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Hysteria about bankruptcy and massive debt because a club the size of United got relegated is ridiculous, particularly when you look at the massive debt we hold while you think we're at the top table.

Who’s paying that debt when we have no money from Premier League or CL or sponsors?

That debt can be serviced currently, it can’t then.

 

[Banana Republic]

........I hate to say it but the only way we can realistically get what we want is if the club get relegated, lose all it's value and become affordable to someone who isn't a massive cnut. Would any of us take that for a potential long term solution to the issue?

There’s a massive danger with taking the club down, both on the pitch and in financial terms.
There is absolutely no guarantee that we could come back from that.
In other words Man Utd will be finished as a top team forever.

Reality check, we are the 3rd or 4th richest football club in the world now, by income and it’s very likely we’l soon be 5th.
Even if RM and Barca don’t recover from their current financial woes, we could still be slipping down the football wealth pecking order.
Our financial strength, based on large sponsorship deals, TV rights and a global following will inevitably diminish if results on the pitch continue as they are.
If we don’t get back to title winning ways and having a world beating squad, we‘ll suffer on and off the pitch, even if we’re competing for top 4 every year and getting cameo roles in the CL.
Imagine what relegation and a big cut in our finances would do?

 

[Mickeza]

So the 50 + 1 rule is never going to happen, and if it somehow does, it's not a guarantee for success. In fact, German teams do the worst across the top leagues when it comes to CL titles.

In regards to the best case outcome, the Glazers sell? My biggest concern is who they sell to. Who's got $4b lying around to buy a club where you're not allowed to get a return on your investment without fans storming the stadium and protesting? Absolutely no one from the UK for a start, or who cares about the fans, and if it's the Saudis then it's the death of the club as we know it.

I hate to say it but the only way we can realistically get what we want is if the club get relegated, lose all it's value and become affordable to someone who isn't a massive cnut. Would any of us take that for a potential long term solution to the issue?

People on here actively cheer against us to get Ole sacked - some would definitely take getting relegated for the Glazers out! It’s quite cult-like in a way - short term pain for potential long term gain without anyone knowing the benefits which would be far from guaranteed. Football is a microcosm of society and this issue is no different. It’s local versus global only instead of jobs going abroad it’s the very soul of the community - it’s wealth inequality and a billionaire class believing they can do what they want. If I wasn’t so terrified about where this will all leave the club I love it’d be fascinating.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

@diarm, remind me again how cheap it was for City to get from Championship to “back to the top”.

I love the idea we’d have that sort of money as a Championship side

 

[diarm]

Who’s paying that debt when we have no money from Premier League or CL or sponsors?

That debt can be serviced currently, it can’t then.

Once the threat of defaulting on that debt became a reality, the Glazers would be forced to sell at a much lower price than they are currently demanding. There is no reason for the club to be carrying debt - again, we are the best supported club on earth. The fact that we are not the richest is only more evidence of mismanagement by our owners.

 

[Marwood]

There are hundreds of clubs outside the Premier League. City were down there a decade ago and are odds on to be in a Champions League final at the end of the month. Football doesn't die just because you're watching in the Championship for a couple of seasons.

Our club is more important than this seasons 2nd place and even a couple of seasons outside the top flight. I'd take it without hesitation if it meant getting rid of the Glazers and I would enjoy the journey back up to the top.

That would be a huge risk. Banking on some kind of Lazarus type recovery or state funding by a group 100 x worse than the current owners.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Once the threat of defaulting on that debt became a reality, the Glazers would be forced to sell at a much lower price than they are currently demanding. There is no reason for the club to be carrying debt - again, we are the best supported club on earth. The fact that we are not the richest is only more evidence of mismanagement by our owners.

Ah, and then just a cool 1.5bn to take us back to the top a la City, easy peesy.
Sounds like an enticing purchase for someone.

 

[diarm]

@diarm, remind me again how cheap it was for City to get from Championship to “back to the top”.

I love the idea we’d have that sort of money as a Championship side

We wouldn't need that sort of money as a Championship side. Once the Glazers are gone we would merely need enough money to get ourselves promoted again.

If Villa or Newcastle can do that, Manchester United with a 75k stadium and 650million fans worldwide certainly can.

Once we're back in the top flight and the shackles of Glazer greed are off, we will work our way back up.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We wouldn't need that sort of money as a Championship side. Once the Glazers are gone we would merely need enough money to get ourselves promoted again.

If Villa or Newcastle can do that, Manchester United with a 75k stadium and 650million fans worldwide certainly can.

Ah, so we wanna be Villa Sign me up