Tom Van Persie
No relation
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 24,459
Martinez
Walker
Dias
Maguire
Shaw
Gundogan
De Bruyne
Fernandes
Salah
Kane
Grealish
Walker
Dias
Maguire
Shaw
Gundogan
De Bruyne
Fernandes
Salah
Kane
Grealish
SoOr, you know, the other 5 players.
What? Are you saying it's less impressive to get clean sheets behind City's defence (team)?!And as for picking Emerson over Martinez, are people just looking at the clean sheet table again?
Claudio Bravo kind of debunk's that theory.What? Are you saying it's less impressive to get clean sheets behind City's defence (team)?!
I bet even my chubby 41 year old ass would get a couple clean sheets pr season as gk for them, and i have never been a goalie!
What? Are you saying it's less impressive to get clean sheets behind City's defence (team)?!
I bet even my chubby 41 year old ass would get a couple clean sheets pr season as gk for them, and i have never been a goalie!
Ederson definitely deserves a shout though thanks to his distribution. He plays the biggest role of GKs in the team's attacking output, so that offsets a lot. I'm not saying he deserves to be in front of Martinez this season though, but he is there or thereabouts this season.
I just don't believe clean sheets tell you how good a keeper is. Yes, your keeper might pull off some saves but it's much more of a team effort.
There's a lot more information available now for keepers:
I'd be more inclined to look at save % in conjuction with how well they are performing against post shot Xg.
Ederson is lagging behind the likes of Areola, Allison and Martinez by some distance. He also is facing less shots and less dangerous shots behind that City defence.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats
Martinez has made 123 saves this year compared to Ederson's 60. So Martinez has made twice as many saves but only 4 less clean sheets. Martinez is the obvious choice to keeper with Pope second after making 114 saves and keeping 11 clean sheets. Of Ederson's 18 clean sheets I probably could have kept 14 of themClaudio Bravo kind of debunk's that theory.
In terms of our players, Phillips has been one of the better ones this season (partly because the rest have been crap). No one expected him to even play this season let alone perform like he has.
Complete clogger.
It doesn't work like that, when inferior keepers go in the nets previously confident defenses suddenly aren't as confident (case in point when you had Ben Foster in nets instead of VDS at the start of a season once).Martinez has made 123 saves this year compared to Ederson's 60. So Martinez has made twice as many saves but only 4 less clean sheets. Martinez is the obvious choice to keeper with Pope second after making 114 saves and keeping 11 clean sheets. Of Ederson's 18 clean sheets I probably could have kept 14 of them
You don't get into team of the year just because you suit Pep's style. He's not the best keeper in the league and certainly not this year.Ederson definitely deserves a shout though thanks to his distribution. He plays the biggest role of GKs in the team's attacking output, so that offsets a lot. I'm not saying he deserves to be in front of Martinez this season though, but he is there or thereabouts this season.
That's not how team of the season works. You know that, right?So
Walker over Cancelo. Pep goes for Walker in big games.
Stones over Maguire. Stones has proven bond and success with Dias who we both selected.
Grealish, Bissouma, over KDB and Bruno.
Bissouma has all the signs that he could be the next Kante or Fernandinho but with a higher engine at this stage. He would (and will) become a superb player with top coaching at a top team.
Grealish has injury issues but all the skill and football intelligence you need.
I don’t think KDB and Bruno would compliment each other at all as both would be demanding the ball.
Foden and Mahrez the most dangerous players in City’s team for the last few weeks.
Could you be anymore cliche? Take nothing away from Ederson. He's a fantastic keeper and just may be the best in the league. Doesn't change the fact that Martinez has had the best season this year and fully deserves to be top of the list. If Ederson wants to get the recognition he just may very well deserve then he should move to a club like Villa as well. If he wants to win trophies, then stay right where he is...It doesn't work like that, when inferior keepers go in the nets previously confident defenses suddenly aren't as confident (case in point when you had Ben Foster in nets instead of VDS at the start of a season once).
Furthermore keeping concentration when you don't have much to do is one of the hardest tasks for a goalkeeper, it's why many look great for a middling teams/teams that cannot defend but are all at sea when trying to make the step up.
I was more challenging the playing down of Ederson than anything else.Could you be anymore cliche? Take nothing away from Ederson. He's a fantastic keeper and just may be the best in the league. Doesn't change the fact that Martinez has had the best season this year and fully deserves to be top of the list. If Ederson wants to get the recognition he just may very well deserve then he should move to a club like Villa as well. If he wants to win trophies, then stay right where he is...
I picked a team that on this seasons form I would back to win a lot of matches. No more, no less. Sorry for missing the point.That's not how team of the season works. You know that, right?
I found Nev;s TOTY a bit bizarre. Rashford should not be in there IMO.or FodenI find Foden's appearance in Neville and Carragher's teams very puzzling. Salah far more deserving.
It's not about whether he suits your style, it's about how many wins you get out of him. Now obviously that's where exact science won't help, but it's not exactly a stretch to say he is better for your team as your 'average' keeper who is also 'average' in build-up, is it?You don't get into team of the year just because you suit Pep's style. He's not the best keeper in the league and certainly not this year.
I can’t take your opinion seriously if you think Antonio and fecking Werner are more deserving for the team of the season than Son.Its too top and bottom heavy. Something like 10 goals in first 11 and then 5 in 23 and dont forget, its he and Kane who had all of the ball under Jose going forward. He just disappeared.
Spurs just dont have enough of the ball going forward to have 2 players in a team of the season, they rarely attacked and are swamped by any decent side they face. Plus he doesnt do much outside of taking a shot. When Spurs need a goal its either Kane holding it up for them or they dont get into the opposition half at all.
Players like Rashford drive the game, his interplay with Shaw has been fantastic this year. Grealish has been on another level to Son, Id even have Werner there. Id also jig the formation and work Antonio in front of Son if it came to it.
Not the point. He's suits City for his distribution but he's not the best keeper on the league. He's quite a bit below the top guys at the actual basic things a goalie is supposed to do... the main one being making saves.It's not about whether he suits your style, it's about how many wins you get out of him. Now obviously that's where exact science won't help, but it's not exactly a stretch to say he is better for your team as your 'average' keeper who is also 'average' in build-up, is it?
Son should be one of the first names on everyone's teams.I can’t take your opinion seriously if you think Antonio and fecking Werner are more deserving for the team of the season than Son.
Why wouldn't it be a point how many wins your player brings you via his contribution? It's quite literally the point. It's not too far from the truth to say that in part thanks to Ederson, City concede less shots, so he's the living example of a keeper not only contributing via saving shots. If you take this from the American MVP point of view, it's not too far-fetched to say Ederson has a bigger influence in contributing to City's wins as even maybe Martinez had.Not the point. He's suits City for his distribution but he's not the best keeper on the league. He's quite a bit below the top guys at the actual basic things a goalie is supposed to do... the main one being making saves.
He's just not the best keeper in the league mate.Why wouldn't it be a point how many wins your player brings you via his contribution? It's quite literally the point. It's not too far from the truth to say that in part thanks to Ederson, City concede less shots, so he's the living example of a keeper not only contributing via saving shots. If you take this from the American MVP point of view, it's not too far-fetched to say Ederson has a bigger influence in contributing to City's wins as even maybe Martinez had.
Werner? I can think of few seasons where a single player has been as notoriously awful as him this year.Its too top and bottom heavy. Something like 10 goals in first 11 and then 5 in 23 and dont forget, its he and Kane who had all of the ball under Jose going forward. He just disappeared.
Spurs just dont have enough of the ball going forward to have 2 players in a team of the season, they rarely attacked and are swamped by any decent side they face. Plus he doesnt do much outside of taking a shot. When Spurs need a goal its either Kane holding it up for them or they dont get into the opposition half at all.
Players like Rashford drive the game, his interplay with Shaw has been fantastic this year. Grealish has been on another level to Son, Id even have Werner there. Id also jig the formation and work Antonio in front of Son if it came to it.
Is he, though?Not the point. He's suits City for his distribution but he's not the best keeper on the league. He's quite a bit below the top guys at the actual basic things a goalie is supposed to do... the main one being making saves.
I posted more detail earlier.Is he, though?
What are you basing this on? It's a prejudice that people have in this country that a goalkeeper who is good with their feet can't possibly also be good with their hands because if they are it means that the "English way" might not actually be the best way after all. In reality Ederson is a very good shot-stopper who regularly makes great stops and very rarely makes errors related to handling or reflexes. His (rare) mistakes are actually almost always to do with his footwork.
Put him in a side that sees shots peppered at him like Burnley or even a side like United and I'm confident this opinion would evaporate.
I don't really think we should pay too much attention to stats like that. For example, Matt Ryan, who is an unmitigated disaster, is above Ederson in that list. Edouard Mendy, who is by all accounts at least one of the top 5 'keepers in the league this season, is ranked down in 17th, barely above Jordan Pickford and Aaron Ramsdale who are also shocking by PL standards.I posted more detail earlier.
It's based on his save %, performance against post shot xg and how dangerous/frequent the shots he's faced have been compared to the others.
https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats
How he performs against post shot XG does tell you how many he conceded that he should have saved.I don't really think we should pay too much attention to stats like that. For example, Matt Ryan, who is an unmitigated disaster, is above Ederson in that list. Edouard Mendy, who is by all accounts at least one of the top 5 'keepers in the league this season, is ranked down in 17th, barely above Jordan Pickford and Aaron Ramsdale who are also shocking by PL standards.
Truthfully I just don't think stats are a great way to look at goalkeepers (except errors leading to goals). The better question would be how many goals has Ederson cost us? How many has he conceded that he probably should have saved? In both cases the answer is very few. It's all well and good to say he saves fewer xG than the average goalkeeper but if you can't actually point to those errors then it can't really be used as a black mark against him.
His distribution and ability on the ball for a goalkeeper is the best I've ever seen. Extraordinary player. I doubt City would swap him for any other goalkeeper.Not the point. He's suits City for his distribution but he's not the best keeper on the league. He's quite a bit below the top guys at the actual basic things a goalie is supposed to do... the main one being making saves.