McFred is the worst midfield 2 of the PL’s top 10 teams

[tjb]

Im inclined to agree. I’m worn out defending the lads at this stage. I’m not quite sure what the club are going to do in the market for the position. Donny seems to be a bit of a strange one. Are we going to buy a better box to box or a new dm or both? I don’t think that kind of money will be there this summer. Hopefully we can get one starter in to break up Mcfred and take it from there.

Probably box to box. There aren't many Carrick's around. A DM that can pass and build up play isn't easy to get, but a box to box midfielder that has the discipline and defensive awareness to achieve a balance midfield like Kessie, Camavinga, Bellingham and a lot more is far more attainable.

I also feel that Fred struggles at times because he constantly has to play the position on his own in an area ( building up and moving the ball) where he is weakest. If he had solid support, he would be able to press more and tasked less with being the main midfield manipulator. Essentially, we are asking Khedira/Tiago Mendes/Nicky Butt to be our leading midfielder, when he should be given a more senior partner.

 

[laughtersassassin]

It will be Scott and Fred next season, Sancho pretty much will be our main signing and I think they'll look at it again, the season after. The only way I see that changing is if a new manager comes in. I think it's how we set up is why we play them, different style of play is the only way I see that changing....

Oles done a good job but planning on them being your starting pair would be beyond Naïve.

It's a complex waste. Two men to do the job of one and do it poorly. For all their defensive workrate it's ruined any their passing and Fred's ability to lose the ball in the edge of his own box.

As a midfield pair they are up there with the worst in the league.

We simply just have a lot of other good players.

 

[bucky]

I'd beg to differ and we aren't linked with CDM's this summer either. Most of the Rice discussions are coming from the fanbase.....

Just because we aren't linked to players doesn't mean we aren't interested. I'm certain Ole knows that Fred and McTominay aren't good enough long-term as starters.

 

[Ace]

How do you think we got to the final eh?

The Europa League final...

 

[Litch]

I'm ok with Fred, first 25 minutes he was good. On the weekend, we'll beat Fulham 6-1 and our fans will be start bashing people who don't like this partnership. Here's the truth. Today, we opened up because we had nothing to lose. Maguire being injured exposed how bad our defence is without him, but more importantly, going toe to toe with Liverpool exposed where we are weakest. We struggle in our build up, not because our defenders can't pass, but out midfielders are poor technically. Fred struggles to trap a ball despite his hustle, Mctominay hides. I remember you saying this midfield were as good as Liverpool's. It's not. Wijnaldum is able to manuever on the ball and take advantage of one on one situations. He can move the ball on his own without support and that's the difference. Neither Mctominay or Fred are good one on one players, so when pressed, they are easily relieved of the ball or succomb to terrible wayward passes. Due to high teams press on the ball these days ( this is the new midfield battle), midfielders have to be good at being able to turn, hold the ball and make quick decisions. Neither Fred or Mctominay are capable of doing that consistently, and against top teams, this gets exposed time and again. Fred is ok to start. His press and willingness to pass make him acceptable. Mctominay is not good enough for a United starting midfielder.

I think that's fair. I'd though that it's our style of play that needs a McFred type of players and if we were more progressive, they wouldn't start for us. We are over reliant on individual brilliance going forward than pattern of play.

 

[Litch]

Just because we aren't linked to players doesn't mean we aren't interested. I'm certain Ole knows that Fred and McTominay aren't good enough long-term as starters.

Maybe but there aren't many times it's not clear who are targets are. Utd rarely pull any rabbit out of the hat and generally when it does happen, tends to be the January window.

 

[Adnan]

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[Litch]

The Europa League final...

You think that's an easy trophy to win?

 

[Litch]

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He might be right. However, Keane fantastic player but a complete failure in every other aspect of football including punditry. He's not the barometer....

 

[AltiUn]

I guess Solskjaer feels like he can trust them but he has to replace at least one of them this summer, replacing both doesn't seem feasible in the current climate. At least one really good CM is an absolute necessity. If you're not careful, certain players will cost you your job in the long term, as Solskjaer's predecessors have all found out. The team's simply outgrown Fred and McTominay.

 

[DRJosh]

I’d keep Fred as a squad option for his tenacity. McTominay would be a better fit for a mid table team and even then he may not get regular playing time. He has moments of brilliance but I think he is technically one of the weakest footballers we have in the first team along with Fred.

 

[tjb]

I think that's fair. I'd though that it's our style of play that needs a McFred type of players and if we were more progressive, they wouldn't start for us. We are over reliant on individual brilliance going forward than pattern of play.

I don't think that's a bad thing. We allow our players express themselves. The problem we have had in attack is that some of those players aren't nearly as good consistently as our fans think. Put Henry in a one on one situation against an average premier league defender or even 2, I'm sure he comes out on top 9/10 times. Same thing for Hazard, Giggs etc. Put Martial or Rashford in that same position and the opposite can be said. It comes down to decision making and the truth is, for us to have the required level of chance creating and attacking effectiveness, neither Martial or Rashford can be our most or even second most important players in our front 4. Their not creative enough.

In systems that allow expression, individuals create those patterns of play. for example, Nani and Anderson brought one two's, Ronaldo brought the quick cut in, Valencia brought the low drilled cross, Beckham brought the deep early cross.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Those two players eat and shit Fred and McTominay.,

There was a prolonged period of like five seasons when Fletcher @ United was regarded in a similar vein to how Tom Cleverley would be now. Similar with Butt. Similiar with John O'Shea.

Maybe you're right, I wouldn't write these two off yet though! Butt on the teamsheet, Fletcher on the teamsheet - they both got the same exasperated sighs as McFred do now. Worked out in the end.

Edit: FWIW, I loved Fletcher especially. Can't remember the final because I am a degenerate, but there was one CL final he was suspended/injured against Barca and I firmly think we'd have come a lot closer to winning with him.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He might be right. However, Keane fantastic player but a complete failure in every other aspect of football including punditry. He's not the barometer....

He was incredible initially with Sunderland in fairness. He’s also right, which is more important.

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Simple question: Would either of them start for City, Liverpool or Chelsea?
Both could be useful squad players but not good enough to be considered first team players for a team wanting to challenge for titles.

 

[Morpheus 7]

We are at the stage where it's the manager for me, can't keep picking these too and expect to control games and have a different outcome. Squad players at best, getting two players to do one job badly. Buy a dm and end this nightmare, winning nothing big with them.

 

[Ace]

You think that's an easy trophy to win?

That’s not what I’m saying at all. You asked how we got to the final, seemingly forgetting Fred’s meltdown in the CL group stages when we were on the cusp of qualifying for the knockout rounds.

We should be aiming higher than the Europa league and we should be aiming higher than Fred and McT in midfield. It’s ridiculous. Fred wouldn’t make City’s u-23 squad, yet he’s undroppable for us no matter how bad he is out there week to week.

I’m happy that we’ve advanced to the final and I want to win, just like every match, but I don’t think anyone on here would sign up for another season with these two in the starting eleven, and I don’t think anyone on here is dreaming about winning the Europa League next season.

 

[acnumber9]

There was a prolonged period of like five seasons when Fletcher @ United was regarded in a similar vein to how Tom Cleverley would be now. Similar with Butt. Similiar with John O'Shea.

Maybe you're right, I wouldn't write these two off yet though! Butt on the teamsheet, Fletcher on the teamsheet - they both got the same exasperated sighs as McFred do now. Worked out in the end.

Edit: FWIW, I loved Fletcher especially. Can't remember the final because I am a degenerate, but there was one CL final he was suspended/injured against Barca and I firmly think we'd have come a lot closer to winning with him.

A lot of that is due to the comparison of the players around them. I’d love a player like Nicky Butt in our current midfield.

 

[passing-wind]

The only good Fred provides is balance. For me he's the weakest link between the two. At best Scott can play the box to box well and chip in with attacking contribution. For his size you would typically think he could shield the defence on his own.

Scott should certainly have a conversation with Matic because in his prime he was competent at being the lone defensive player for Benfica and at times Chelsea.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

For his size you would typically think he could shield the defence on his own.

No more than Fellaini can.

McTominay is good for chipping in 5 to 6 goals a season and ... nothing else. Once that right wing is sorted out, the next obvious upgrade is a midfielder with some positional sense to replace him. Whoever it is can partner Fred or Pogba depending on opposition.

 

[hubbuh]

You think that's an easy trophy to win?

Erm, yes? C'mon, ffs. Let's not pretend it was a fecking slog to get to the final

 

[amolbhatia50k]

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Well said.

Look this thread is hyperbolically we all know that. But the chaos who actually think this combination isn't technically poor news to start watching closely. Mctominay passes and moves about like a lumbering CB. Fred is this niggle little Kante light so who has the consistency and refinement in his game of a 14 year.

Hang in to effort and mentality all you want. This pair has not got what it takes.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We’re wasting a position in midfield playing both these guys to do the job of one player.

Imagine if we had a passer between them. In midfield. Sounds shocking I know. I thought CMs aren't supposed to provide that.

 

[Devil may care]

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And water is wet, it's been obvious that these 2 are the sides weakest link for ages, Lindelof isn't a brilliant CB and I know everybody wants Sancho for RW but Mason is a better RW option than Fred or McTominay are midfield options.

 

[hubbuh]

Ouch, absolute horror show for both of them. McTominay seems to go missing in the majority of games and Fred is surely bipolar. In the first half he was decent, in the second half he was absolutely unbearable. There's no denying they both have their uses, but they are so dysfunctional at times that it's impossible for us to control games for protracted periods. Awful showing today, they both need a long hard look in the fecking mirror

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ouch, absolute horror show for both of them. McTominay seems to go missing in the majority of games and Fred is surely bipolar. In the first half he was decent, in the second half he was absolutely unbearable. There's no denying they both have their uses, but they are so dysfunctional at times that it's impossible for us to control games for protracted periods. Awful showing today, they both need a long hard look in the fecking mirror

Mirrors won't do anything. They should never be first choice. It's the safe option that gives the manager comfort. But he needs to grow out of that comfort zone now

 

[Silas]

And water is wet, it's been obvious that these 2 are the sides weakest link for ages, Lindelof isn't a brilliant CB and I know everybody wants Sancho for RW but Mason is a better RW option than Fred or McTominay are midfield options.

Yep, midfield is more of an issue than the RW for me.

 

[Manutd GOGOGO]

McFred are both an attacking player and prefer the box-to-box position. All they really have for the defensive position is their energy.

We need a proper centre midfielder this season. This will simultaneously strength our defence and attack by freeing one player up and putting the right player in.

 

[hubbuh]

Mirrors won't do anything. They should never be first choice. It's the safe option that gives the manager comfort. But he needs to grow out of that comfort zone now

Categorically agree, honestly. He's hamstrung by a lack of genuine alternatives, but this pairing has run its course. I do think they have a place in terms of being useful squad options, but they are both so painfully limited it barely needs pointing out. A lack of awareness, a lack of urgency, a lack of control, a lack of composure. Everything you want from a domineering centre mid, this pairing lacks. Unfortunately, I don't see an obvious solution to the problem.

 

[izak]

He's not the barometer....

Roy is one of the greatest to ever do it in midfield, Yes he is the barometer, I'll ask you this what have we won since them two metioned played for us?
If we want to challenge City for the title next season we need a Young Toni kross in there partnered by a Young Carrick simple, where do we find this type of players i don't know, our scouts have to dig deep this summer.

 

[FootyGirl88]

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[Roboc7]

Simple question: Would either of them start for City, Liverpool or Chelsea?
Both could be useful squad players but not good enough to be considered first team players for a team wanting to challenge for titles.

They wouldn’t start for West Ham or Leicester let alone three teams you mention.

Both can be useful squad players and they’ve served a purpose, it’s time to move on now. I’m sure Ole realises that and if he doesn’t he has no chance of making any more significant progress, it’s clearly the weakest part of the team.

 

[Zlatans Knee]

This should not even be a topic for discussion any longer. Preferably we would buy two new CMs but at a bare minimum we must buy one top class CM. At least that way they can rotate Fred and McT and we can see which of them (if any) can be relied upon.
Thanks to the improvements by Greenwood this now has to be prio 1 in the summer. After that it is RW & CB.

 

[Mcking]

Fred is fine, McTominay is not. We'd be so much better if we had two Freds.

 

[gajender]

Fred is fine, McTominay is not. We'd be so much better if we had two Freds.

Offcourse what's better than one average player two of them .
Ps Mctominay is nowhere good enough for United but neither is Fred as regular starter.

 

[Escobar]

He might be right. However, Keane fantastic player but a complete failure in every other aspect of football including punditry. He's not the barometer....

He is right. It is so obvious that these two are not up to the standard, simple as that

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

its obvious to any serious person that starting both at the same time is a no no. What is baffling is rather why many a smart person simply ignores why we are forced to start the two of them together often in the first place...sigh..

 

[amolbhatia50k]

He might be right. However, Keane fantastic player but a complete failure in every other aspect of football including punditry. He's not the barometer....

Irrelevant. He's right, he's a central midfield great and people love him as a pundit it seems. Have you done better at your profession? Or are you an even bigger 'failure'?

Roy Keane is the Gold standard.

 

[Bobcat]

Fred has had a good season, a couple of bad displays here and there, including last night, but overall hes been an asset to the team. If he played alongside a skillfull DM with good passing range and good positioning he could be first pick imo and certainly a very good rotational player.

McTomminay i fear is not cut out for this level. I really like the lad, but his positioning, passing and technical ability is simply not good enough and it really gets exposed vs other good sides

The McFred pairing is not a good one since neither of them are particularly good passers or comfortable carrying the ball upfield, so it really hurts our build up play and vs high pressing sides like Liverpool its a downright liability.

Pogba is not the solution either. Pogba+ Fred have been tried and it does not work.

 

[Dante]

Fred's a bit stupid. McTominay's a bit average.

In the long run, McTominay is the better option for being a squad player because he can give you predictably steady performances. But obviously neither is title-winning first XI quality.

With our current squad, McFred should absolutely be our first choice midfield. No other combination we have is anywhere near as good. They're not as good as the very best. But nor are they the worst in the top 10. Their main job is to give a platform to the fullbacks and attacking three, which they do quite well in the vast majority of games.