You parrot this idea over and over regardless of whether it's correct or not. Very much in the "repetition = truth" school of thought.
McFred is the worst midfield 2 of the PL’s top 10 teams
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Stop being so reactionary, we have qualified for the Champions League twice now with the McFred midfield.
Maybe we won’t go onto win the league with the midfield but stop with hyperbolic nonsense
I like them both and they both have something to offer, but we desperately need a quality ball playing, positionally aware midfielder over the summer. No idea who though and I won't be at all surprised if we get nobody.
I'm not a fan of the double pivot and I think with a couple of different squad options we would move away from it in a lot of games.
I'm not a fan of the double pivot and I think with a couple of different squad options we would move away from it in a lot of games.
Fred is fine. He plays with McTominay who is a net negative almost every game. He effectively plays in a one-man midfield which is always going to affect his performances. If we have another player who offers everything Fred does or more, I'm sure we'd see plenty of improvement in performances.
He is good with his long and short passing, shows for the ball, carries the ball, keeps it moving well and puts in plenty of defensive work. Although he has the occasional lapses in concentration, he retains the ball well, and I've seen him take control of the midfield battle many times.
It is difficult to be really good every game when he has to do twice the defensive job that McTominay does, and twice the job he does on the ball too.
I have seen Fred have plenty of games where he showed everything that you'd want from a Manchester United midfielder, and his skill set is accomplished for a Premier League midfielder. For where we want to be, Fred is absolutely good enough as far as I'm concerned.
Some people do go overboard as I have seen it said after games where it wasn't really true, but surely you can't deny that he does completely disappear out of the game far too often? He consistently is involved in the game at least 20% less than any of our other midfielders, and when he does get on the ball he does less with it than any of the others.
Yep, he might be right and I'm not defending Fred or Scott, just we been having the same discussion often focusing on which player isn't good enough, buying that player then repeat. Wasn't Harry suppose to fix our problems at the back? Fred and Scott don't pick themselves irrespective if they are all we have. They are all we have in this system so if they aren't good enough, change the system..........
There's only so much a system can do though. I agree that coaching needs to do more especially for our defensive organisation. But when your CMs can't pass the ball at a decent level, how much can you really pass teams off the park considering your RB is also a limited/defensive one.
Not sure when getting today those sides is the barometer when you could argue Ole wouldn't either, but that's not the point. There's are players that wouldn't get into ours either......
Forums eh? Bit personal.....
No sorry. Let's get back to Roy Keane the epic failure whose views on central midfield, a position he absolutely owned, should not be considered valid. Come on.
Fred and Scott don't pick themselves. Do you think Pep if city are the barometer would continue to play a system that is over reliant on his two weakest players? There are other things Ole could do or even attempt to try. It's Ole that's created this issue by continuing to play them irrespective of its failings as a pair. I actually think he could play VDB in their with either Scott or Fred. I actually think he doesn't use Matic enough....
One of my fav players but the failure of him as a manager was the majority of players will never be him, yet he blames them for not being. This is not on Scott or Fred cause they don't pick themselves. Ole might have limited options but it's his job to get the best out the squad. Ole is stubborn and it will be his downfall. As I said, not seen him try any other combinations or formations. He's stuck Pogs on the left which then moves Rashford on the right which doesn't help as the balance isn't right.
If Pep and city are the barometer, it would be Pogs in midfield probably with VDB and Matic behind them. You might even see Axel at CDM, it's about being creative with what you got. City have won the title and in the CL final with no centre forward as such....
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It's harsh on McFred.
The only problem that I can see is Fred himself. Put McTominay next to a decent CM and i'm sure people will realise his quality more.
The only problem that I can see is Fred himself. Put McTominay next to a decent CM and i'm sure people will realise his quality more.
I don't agree with the OP but what I do know is they are both very limited players and we will never win any top honours with those two playing.
If we are all happy just battling for top 4 each year and getting to the latter stages of the Europa League then carry on with them. However if we have ambition, neither should ever start for us. They would be bench players at most for the best teams in the world... which we are currently not even close to being one of.
If we are all happy just battling for top 4 each year and getting to the latter stages of the Europa League then carry on with them. However if we have ambition, neither should ever start for us. They would be bench players at most for the best teams in the world... which we are currently not even close to being one of.
Our midfield has fallen apart almost every time we've played Matic, no matter who his partner was. VDB has done nothing in the opportunities he's had to show he can be a realistic option.
With our current options we really have no choice but to play Fred and Scott in most games, particularly against decent opposition. I do hope that changes and we bring in somebody to play next to one of them (maybe Pogba a bit more often as well but still not against good teams), but for now they are the best option.
I guess it's down to opinions. I don't think playing 10 mins or less at the end of the game is going to tell you anything or even starting a game like on Tues with others that haven't played either is going to help either. I think it's about who you play players next to, Matic next to Fred or Scott (especially Scott) doesn't work.
I actually think Ole likes Scott and Fred, and it's not because they are all he's got.
Both Fred and McTominay have looked better this season when not playing with one another. McTominay played better when Fred went off I thought and earlier in the season when Fred and Pogba played together Fred was starting to look like the player we paid 45m for.
We'd be a much better team with someone like Rice playing alongside Pogba and Bruno.
We'd be a much better team with someone like Rice playing alongside Pogba and Bruno.
I completely agree, mctominay is a decent box to box maybe not so good defensively but but him next to a better midfielder than Fred and I think he would blossom.
I understand wanting to try out different things but as average as this pair is and j hate saying, it is our best CM duo.
Vdb is painfully average. Shown zero character or quality. As much as I don't like Fred and Mctominay they're twice the footballers he's proving to be.
Pogba is not a CM. I too lived in the Dreamland that some manager can make him work in middle. It won't happen. Not when we Bruno who isn't a CM either. And it's because Pogba hasn't gone what's needed off the ball. He hasn't got the discipline and mental focus. And we don't have a pure DM to even attempt it. Magic is antient
Facts. I don't even see the need to pile on them. They are who they are.
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I like that Roy doesn't have British sentimental attachment towards the likes of Mctominay. He's a useful player but I always get the feeling that he has some special status at United due to being a hard working Scot. Whereas he should be just another player. Homegrown yes that's cool but subject to standards like everyone. That's why Keane isn't a bad pundit to have around, he doesn't pander to this stuff as much as others.
Pretty sure it wouldn't cost a bomb to find better midfielders than both of them.
That's how average they are.
That's how average they are.
I must admit that you are right and I wasn't. It doesn't matter if Fred has better pass completion percentage or generally plays well most of the time if he keeps gifting goals left and right.
I think it's the other way around.
Fred is bizarre. He has games where he is an utter liability and in other big games, be amazing. We need someone way more consistent in his position.
I can forgive McTom slightly, but he's on watch after a few stinkers.
You'd think so - then we'll end up with Schneiderlin 2.0.
Not really. We also conceded 6 in the last two games with our ridiculous schedule and without our best CB. And conceded 6 in one stupid game at the start of the season without a preseason. That's a quarter of our goals. Our defense has been fine over the course of the season.
Every team has games where they concede more. And every team can miss their "best CB" for two games which is lucky for us actually. Too many excuses.
It's not excuses it's facts. No one had a schedule as packed as ours where we then lost our best CB. No one had a preseason as short as ours, plus we lost a man in the game we conceded 6. Over the course of the season our defence has been fine.
In just a few games has it been exposed and there are reasons for that.
They are our worst midfield pair in Prem history.
I truly can't think of a worst starting pair since 92.
I truly can't think of a worst starting pair since 92.
Ah sure. Look away from the problem. Fred, Mctominay, Lindelof and Bailly will win us titles. All is well.
How many games did we have without Maguire btw - 10 league games was it?
I'm not sure if they are worse than Cleverley - Anderson. They made Fellaini look great and get a move here
Definitely worse with the ball.
Maguire, Lindelof, Fred and McT over the course of the season has been good defensively.
Not sure if you've ignored my posts but no one has called for a CDM more than me but it's hyperbole to suggest we have been awful defensively this season.
With that 4 we've had a decent season defensively, especially if we take our that ridiculous Tottenham result.
The problem is that we HAVE to play McFred at the moment, even in games we are the much better team in order to ensure we are good defensively. We have to play 2 players where we could have 1 who is actually good enough.
We've done amazingly well when you think these two have been our midfield in the big games over the last couple of seasons. There's no need for me to slag them off further, everyones said what needs to be said. Ole's not stupid, he'll know what needs to be done in the summer, I just hope the backing happens and we don't need to see this combo in important games again, or basically any games in truth, its just so far away quality wise in so many departments, from where we want to be as a team.
You don't think McTominay is a problem?
His passing accuracy was under 70% vs Liverpool. He's a midfielder that doesn't even play adventurous passes much.
He is easily more of a problem than Fred(who's also a problem).
Awful passing from both. And it cannot even be argued that we need them to protect our defense after having conceded 4.
He was spot on about needing 5 players too. CB, upgrades on Mcfred, RW and Haaland/Kane and we'll have as good a squad as City.
You can't be good defensively yet bad decisively. Stop taking results out FFS because they don't suit you
And we don't need decent seasons defensively. We need top class ones. Which ain't happening with this. Do you think our ambition is to win the league in 2042 next?