And I'm saying we won't qualify for the CL for a third time if we stick with those two. It's not hyperbolic it's pretty fecking obvious.
Ya it’s his repetitive brain farts, ones that prove very costly - same ones that happen over and over - just makes him a liability. Target him and he will slip up. But it comes down to management too - Ole isn’t playing to our strengths. Playing out form the back and trying to use Fred is a huge mistake. A big portion of the blame is on the coaching side. You see a persistent problem, you fix or bypass it.
Passing hasn't been a priority in United CMs for over a decade. We scoff at possession football you see.
VDB is not really a midfielder, he's a second striker
He really isn't and never was. I'd honestly love to see Ole at least try and have us keep the ball better by playing him in the CMs - we're top four now and no one really cares if we finish 2nd or 3rd - we should use Fulham and Wolves to rest a few players and at least give him 90mins back to back. It's crazy how little game time VdB's had.
I don't see your point. You're acting like we have credible options outside of the two. You saw us on Tuesday against Leicester, our youngsters weren't the reason we lost that game.
Mctominay hides in games. He takes no responsibility and really doesn't domuch to use his size. Fred put himself out there, fails a lot, but by doin so gives us a chance to dominate games. Mctominay ensures that we don't by doing nothing.
I think he was signed as an AM. But either way, what a disaster.
From a net gain vs net loss perspective - Fred's fails have actively cost us goals. McTominay's hiding costs us an extra man on the pitch.
Yup. We need players with play making ability. Only Fred and Matic have been semi reliable at any point and Matic has been pony for years
But everyone wants a destroyer and Ole is never linked with a passing CM either. Worrying
Not that simple. Fred might cost us 3 goals a season, Mctominay costs us the ability to dominate games. That could mean us scoring 3 or 4 goals, but instead we score 1 or 2 that could lead to a draw or a loss.
You can't tell me that he's worse than these 2. At least we could try it out but Ole preferred Mata over him in CM, which was strange too
I'd take McGinn, Ward Prowse and Neves in a heartbeat.Forget the top 10, or teams around Europe. How does it compare to the bottom 10?
Aston Villa; Mcginn - Luiz
Wolves; Neves - Moutinho
Palace; Eze - Milivojevic
Southampton; Ward-Prowse - Romeu
Burnley; Westwood - Cork
Newcastle; Shelvey - Willock
Brighton; Bissouma - Groß
Fulham; Lemina - Reed
West Brom; Yokuslu - Gallagher
Sheff Utd; Berge - Norwood
How many would you rather have over our two?
Or, how many of those teams would swap their current pair for McFred? I'd say less than 50% - definitely not Villa, Wolves, Southampton or Brighton.
Depressing.
This is concern.
You see that’s my problem. In this system it’s a unicorn player we are looking for. A box to box playmaker/creator/destroyer.
Well if it's not that simple let's take it further. Fred's red card in the CL cost us. Fred's lack of ball control in the FA Cup cost us - that's two competitions right there. His lack of ability on the ball almost cost us in the Europa, if not for Pogba. If I wanted to take the time and really dig in i'm sure I could find some more - for example the game against Villa - their first goal came about because of Fred's 'pass' to McTominay. Now since McTominay reacted and just got a foot on the ball, the stats will register that as a complete pass, however if you watch it with your own eyes you'll see it was terrible control by Fred, it puts McTominay in a terrible position to get pressed and lose the ball, two passes later Villa score.
Nail on head. Fred has gotten away with a lot of mistakes this season alone. He's not reliable at all.
This is the key point for me. Those who defend McFred have to pinpoint exactly where they believe our ambition lies next season.
This. I actually would rather us bring in those 2 and a central defender at this point than Sancho. We aren’t bad at scoring goals. It’s the other end we have trouble with and actually controlling a game.
You hit the nail on the head. Spot on.
Wait, so we've made top 4 twice with them but it's 'pretty fecking obvious' that we won't a third time? That's not making much sense.
well, he’s been shite. 34 appearances and 1400 minutes is not a small body of work. He hasn’t passed the eye test for me either.
| Row Labels | Tackles | Interceptions | Total Tackles and Interceptions |
| Ndidi | 4 | 2.8 | 6.8 |
| Kante | 3.5 | 2.5 | 6 |
| Romeu | 3.5 | 1.6 | 5.1 |
| Neves (24) | 2.9 | 2.2 | 5.1 |
| Fred | 3.1 | 1.9 | 5 |
| Allan | 3.4 | 1.6 | 5 |
| Yokuslu | 2.6 | 2.3 | 4.9 |
| Mcarthur | 3.5 | 1.4 | 4.9 |
| Bissouma (24) | 3 | 1.8 | 4.8 |
| Reed | 2.7 | 2 | 4.7 |
| Lemina | 3 | 1.6 | 4.6 |
| Anguissa | 2.6 | 1.9 | 4.5 |
| Jorginho | 2.7 | 1.8 | 4.5 |
| Thiago | 2.9 | 1.5 | 4.4 |
| Phillips | 2.6 | 1.7 | 4.3 |
| Brownhill | 1.4 | 2.7 | 4.1 |
| Hojbjerg | 2.6 | 1.3 | 3.9 |
| Rice (22) | 1.9 | 2 | 3.9 |
| Gallagher (21) | 2.9 | 0.9 | 3.8 |
| McTominay | 2.1 | 1.2 | 3.3 |
It really isn't rocket science, is it?
Regardless of whether you think he's crap or incredible, is it fair to judge a player as you are whose only meaningful minutes come when the second string is out and the rest is 5 min cameos?
First I'll say, I don't think Ole feels like he's stuck with them. He's had occasions to try different things
It's amazing that people will ignore that table cause it doesn't fit their agenda. Anyone see Rice figures? How does the worst CDM in the league in Fred be so high in the list? Do you think the pressure of playing in the Utd shirt equates to playing in a Leicester, Wolves or Southampton shirt? That's also a factor. You believe what you want, Fred is just this years fans scapegoat. The next level is realistically only Ndidi, the best CDM in the league. That's no disgrace......
Those stats don’t tell you the number of times players just run in behind him while he blindly chases the ball. James McArthur is just below him in that table. Is he a great midfielder?
Doesn't tell you the number of times for the other players either? Great are your words not mine, so you tell me. My view is simple I don't believe Fred is anyway near as bad as people make out. No more, no less. I think Fred will be starting next season and if you lot are Ole in, explain that. You think that Utd couldn't sign 90% of those CDM's for peanuts on that lists? What is Ole seeing that you are not if you lot believe Fred's not good enough?
Agreed. They're good as squad players but if we're starting with them, we're only hurting ourselves. Holding midfield is the easiest part of our team to improve imo.
With who?
