Interestingly Le Monde(one of France larger paper) has a headline that targets Israel leaders and blame them for the violence. The argument being that they have slowly but surely drifted to the right and decades of heinous rhetoric are now followed by actions. Le Monde is a balanced paper in general but the large right wing paper, Le Figaro, has a headline stating that Palestine support from the left is thinly disguised antisemitism.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
America can stop it. If they wanted to. But this blind support for whatever regime is in power, says a lot.
Well, if military infrastructure is located in there, by definition certain places within it become such.
Is this what they meant by "hamas intelligence" being stationed in the media tower?
Biden won't do anything
Nor has any American President to any quantitative degree since Carter.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It could also launch a nuclear war against Russia and China but it doesn't. There are limitations to what leaders can do when their publics support the Israeli side.
Would the US public really view it negatively if your government stopped funding Israel? I'm not expecting the US or the UK governments to condemn Israel (because we all know that's never going to happen), but I feel like they could do a hell of a lot more without the general public viewing it negatively. Although, as the Iraq war showed, we know they don't really give a shit what the general public feel when it comes to protesting.
Nope. It was up to the Progressives of the party to condemn it, even calling it apartheid.
Not by much.
Our largest city is pro-Israel due to its ethnic makeup. Tens of millions of evangelicals are rabidly pro-Israel. This cuts across political ideological lines with no real care about our financial aid to Israel.
Plus 9/11 is still resonant.
He's got a certain protector among the staff.
The balance of power in US politics is currently teetering on a precarious edge where Republicans are going to reclaim Congress at the next election, so needlessly giving the opposition the ammo to gain independent votes would be political suicide for the Dems.
Thanks. I'm reading Righteous Victims.
I was hoping to get the other book by James Gelvin(300 pages - a shorter read) but could not find that anywhere.
American support is like 50/50 though (I think 46/54 in favour of palestinians if I recall correctly.) Removing evangelicals from that polls skews it further towards Palestinians. Not sure why Biden is unable to react. Could be geopolitical as he knows Putin won't go hard on Israel and doesn't want to see less supportive than Russia? I dunno.
Caveat: Polls I'm referencing are a few years old.
@Raoul @calodo2003 What do you see as a way out now? (assuming you're both in agreement that Israel have overstepped with the airstrikes etc)
In the US at least, the pro-Israeli hardliner lobby is incredibly powerful, rich, and well-connected to both political parties. It was different in the 90s when a lot of people supported Rabin but since his assassination, they've really shifted to the hardliner stance. A few other things that feed into the narrative is the 20 years of global War on Terror propaganda. Then, even crazier, is how all the apocalyptic evangelicals see the holy land as ground zero for their narratives. Put all of it together and you have a range of lobbying/propaganda from the cold pragmatic to the crazy narratives.
Yes. A huge voting bloc would be pissed.
Unfortunately if any president of America were to publicly come out against Israel they would be chased from office.
And they are worried about the backlash they'll receive from a certain group of people here. We have a large population of people who will start problems and play the victim card. All of which pales in comparison to what has been happening to the Palestinians. Politics is fecking dirty and heartless.
I don’t necessarily see the air strikes as an overstep. From a military standpoint, they are massively restrained & targeted. The collateral damage is unfortunate, but expected & inevitable. The air strikes are somewhat proportional to the rocket attacks in their current scope.
If a wider bombing campaign erupts or IDF forces enter into Gaza on the ground, that would definitely constitute a shift in aggression in my mind.
The only effective recourse for me would then be reduction in future financial aid & stopping whatever aid was in the pipeline. That would be the only acute way to affect Israel, it seems.
Only journalists? What about the children?
Its about 70/30 in favor of the Israeli side in the US at the moment, although sympathy for the Palestinians has been slowly gaining over the past few years.
I think Netenyahu has a two pronged strategy. First, use the conflict to advance his political survival (mission accomplished apparently). Second, hammer Hamas into submission by taking out as much of their weapons and development infrastructure as possible and in the process kill as many of their members as possible (including where possible, its leaders). Once those two are accomplished, it will probably coincide with growing international outrage and the US nagging him behind the scenes to knock it off, that (assuming the Hamas rockets stop) he will then be incentived to deescalate.
Destroying of the free press, limiting reporting from the Gaza side, all in a days work.
For people asking why the support, I think the current president of the US gave a good answer 35 years ago:
That accounts for the high offices, the ones who understand and support the empire.
Then you add to that the money (notice how bipartisan it is)
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=q05
Note that Antone's money isn't for a sitting senator, not even a sitting house rep, not even a senate election, not even a house election - it was for his primary campaign against Ilhan Omar. Omar had said "it's all about the benjamins" wrt bipartisan support for Israel and was forced to apologise, and then faced a million-dollar house primary.
And finally you get outcomes like this:
US: States Use Anti-Boycott Laws to Punish Responsible Businesses
Laws Penalize Companies that Cut Ties With Israeli Settlements
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses
A Texas Elementary School Speech Pathologist Refused to Sign a Pro-Israel Oath, Now Mandatory in Many States — so She Lost Her Job
A major attack on the First Amendment: No credible advocate of free expression can remain silent about this “free speech exception for Israel.”
https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/
7:30
Speaker Pelosi: "If the capitol crumbles to the ground, the one thing that will remain is our cooperation with Israel, it is fundamental."
That accounts for the high offices, the ones who understand and support the empire.
Then you add to that the money (notice how bipartisan it is)
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=q05
Note that Antone's money isn't for a sitting senator, not even a sitting house rep, not even a senate election, not even a house election - it was for his primary campaign against Ilhan Omar. Omar had said "it's all about the benjamins" wrt bipartisan support for Israel and was forced to apologise, and then faced a million-dollar house primary.
And finally you get outcomes like this:
US: States Use Anti-Boycott Laws to Punish Responsible Businesses
Laws Penalize Companies that Cut Ties With Israeli Settlements
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/23/us-states-use-anti-boycott-laws-punish-responsible-businesses
A Texas Elementary School Speech Pathologist Refused to Sign a Pro-Israel Oath, Now Mandatory in Many States — so She Lost Her Job
A major attack on the First Amendment: No credible advocate of free expression can remain silent about this “free speech exception for Israel.”
https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/
7:30
Speaker Pelosi: "If the capitol crumbles to the ground, the one thing that will remain is our cooperation with Israel, it is fundamental."
Last edited:
It's a fecking shame on the world when the lives of children is considered "acceptable" collateral damage.
Sultan?
What part of Hamas's strategy of getting it's own kids killed don't you understand?
That would explain his name
Not who I had in mind
It was a pretty daft speech to be fair. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Last edited:
We've seen with the Al Jazzera building was announced as a target and accurately hit. Are there collateral deaths and injuries from people living in the building or adjacent buildings? Are the civilian casualties from ground artillery or laser guided missiles or bombs dropped by Israeli Airforce?
The bolded part is important. Israel is slowly starting to lose the PR battle.
No doubt ‘67 & ‘73 was resonating with him then.
Just like those awful Mexicans. That'll play well in the US.
Based on the source, 1986?
I don’t know the exact figures, but there most likely are. I would be shocked if there weren’t any.
To think there wouldn’t be is bizarre.
The power structure of the country is such that we're probably a couple of decades off from it being 50/50. It will take a brand new generation of kids growing up and gaining power to see any substantive change.