Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Sorry?
Kindly see revised post
I think it exposes the Palestinian cause once and for all.
If not why isn't every Muslim/ Leftie ever outside every Chinese Embassy ?
These are ideal suggestions. Sadly The International Community are not showing any desire to act beyond making statements that support Israel's current actions.
Anything else that could follow cannot really come about while Israel continues to kill a group of people they do not see as human.
You say the international community must act... which I agree with. But does anyone genuinely believe that will happen?
They're too busy not dealing with China, Syria, Iran etc
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Basically what certain posters have been doing in this thread.
It can! Unfortunately it's taken the latest round of violence but I think the penny has dropped. For one Arab states in their supposed warming relationship with Israel mist bring these matters to the table or risk being seen as traitors.
With a mass of protests and the icc and UN attempting to intervene, this has to be the moment.
This is how evil becomes status quo. Sitting back and allowing those words to be seen as reason.
What is not certain quite yet is whether one of them is a true believer or just a wum. I expect we'll find out
Sorry, I've just envisaged The ICC asking Ian Botham to mediate... interesting thought eh.
It was a little more than passive allowing. More appropriate words would be nurtured, cultivated, and facilitated in my view.
"Desperate to prevent Arafat’s return under any peace accord and seeking to undermine his popularity in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, a year later Israel allowed a 42-year old quadriplegic religious leader, Sheik Ahmad Yassin, to license his humanitarian organization, later called Hamas."
"There is a natural affinity that exists in a limited way between the policies and goals of Hamas and the political objectives of the Likud Bloc that has brought them together.
Every time Israeli and Palestinian negotiators appeared ready to take a major step toward achieving peace, an act of Hamas terrorism has scuttled the peace process and has pushed the two sides apart.
The startling ease with which terrorism has undermined peace is a testament to the fragility of the peace process and the political weakness of both Israeli and Palestinian negotiators. Two specific acts of Likud-inspired violence derailed the momentum of the peace process, too."
https://www.mediamonitors.net/how-s...rise-of-hamas-and-benefit-from-its-terrorism/
"Listen to former Israeli officials such as Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, who was the Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s. Segev later told a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat (who himself referred to Hamas as “a creature of Israel.”)
“The Israeli government gave me a budget,” the retired brigadier general confessed, “and the military government gives to the mosques.”
“Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel’s creation,” Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades, told the Wall Street Journal in 2009. Back in the mid-1980s, Cohen even wrote an official report to his superiors warning them not to play divide-and-rule in the Occupied Territories, by backing Palestinian Islamists against Palestinian secularists. “I … suggest focusing our efforts on finding ways to break up this monster before this reality jumps in our face,” he wrote."
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
What next ? A Stephen Crowder prove me wrong video ?
Yeah, those ten dudes expose everything. Well done, detective.
He saws Jews aren't allowed in the West Bank when they have stolen half of it and routinely occupy the other half.
@Fearless I've been around in this world long enough to call out distraction. I'd like to ask you one important question: why are you (your Israeli mates) digging, and continuing to dig, under Masjid Al Aqsa ? Would like your explanation because you won't be able to read about this in many mainstream places online.
Archeological reasons as far as I know.
In before "prove me wrong"
They don't "represent" lefties or the palestinian cause
Wow that was easy
Stolen it from who?
a) Judea (where the word Jew comes from)?
b) Jordan (who illegally occupied it)?
So what do they represent???
Most of what I wrote can be checked. "Fact checked" if you like.
Prominent Israelis have written, some later deciding it was the wrong decision, in Israel's involvement in Hamas coming to the fore. There are reports of money being given, channelled into mosques etc. Again can be checked if you wish to do so.
The first attack by Hamas was before it became Hamas and in retaliation to Israeli soldiers killing Palestinians by ramming a truck into their car. This was decisive moment in what Hamas would later do. However in it's early days it carried out most punishments to Palestinians.
The Hebron massacre was indeed initially condemned by the PM but the grave became a monument, which was destroyed by the Israeli army but it left the epitaph claiming Goldstein was a martyr with clean hands.
The Hamas using civilians is very much over played if reports from likes of Amnesty are to be believed (and I would rather believe those than the other narratives). In fact Israel using Palestinian children as shields is most prominent in reports. Again you can check this. Israels stance is there is no civilians in Gaza (for example) they are all either militants or human shields. Hamas being a non state actor the law is against it from the start. Doesn't leave much room to discuss does it?
Unfortunately I can't see that happening when one of the largest parties in Israel (Likud) doesn't want Hamas to disappear.
Themselves.
Muslim Brotherhood would have been a better answer.
Source for this?
This would lead us to conclude that Hamas is still the biggest problem. The objectives of the Israeli far-right, we know about, but ultimately they depend on Hamas to act belligerently.
Why are they doing it? To somehow destroy it?
Honestly, I don't see how you conclude that. The Israeli far-right is the biggest problem as shown by Netanyahu's recent actions designed to intentionally provoke Hamas. Likud has all the power, they are the most dangerous and the biggest impediment to peace as they have been for the past 25 years.
On the first bolded, I still don't see the relevance of this...what does this have to do with anything? All I see here is evidence for the theory that Hamas is indeed the stumbling block to peace. If far-right Israeli elements were funding hamas in order to oppose peace as a pretext for expansion, then taking out hamas and other similarly minded groups is step one to peace. Unless you have a separate point which you might be kind enough to clarify.
On the other two bolded, I would appreciate some sources that you think provide the best explanation. just so we are on the same page.
I'm not saying it's an ok price to pay. What I am saying is that the high costs of war should be used as a justification to end the nonsense, not escalate it so that the Palestinians accept their wretched fate and leave the oppressors alone to continue their oppression.
There are no genuine military locations in Gaza I am aware of.
Israel, given it's history, shouldn't have to be compelled to do the right thing. And oppressed peoples shouldn't have to act right for the oppression to stop. It's why Mandela (shame he's been made into this hippy) never renounced violence by the ANC as a precondition for talks. It is an absolutely ridiculous demand to make, that oppressed people pursue their means through "the right channels".
Not quite, but I agree with you in that it's this sort of rubbish that makes a lot of people apprehensive about the Palestinian cause, me included. And I'm saying this with the full knowledge that what the Israelis are doing right now is needlessly cruel and inhumane.
I think most of us feel this way, but let's say that Israel lifted all restrictions, blockades, checkpoints and occupation(atlhough this will vary compared to who you ask) what would any completely unbiased observer think is going to happen?
Maybe your problem is with my phrasing of words. Let me try a different approach...If there was no Hamas, there would be peace or something close to it despite the intentions of the Israeli far-right (under any name). Would you agree?
feck that, get Boycott in there. He’s sort them all out in no time