Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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el3mel

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If I didn't know any better, looking at this thread would make me think it was Ole's 7th season.

How long did it take for Klopp to win a title?
For how long this Klopp comparison will keep going when it has been already dead?

Klopp in his second full season reached CL final while we got kicked out from the group stage in Ole's second full season.

Klopp's 3rd season had Liverpool get 97 points in the league and challenged City, the gods of football according to some, till the very last week, lost only one game in the league, and won CL.

So should we expect this from Ole in his 3rd full season next year or it will be the death of such ridiculous comparison?
 

The Oracle

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Man Management style.

SAF style.
I find it absolutely baffling when poster's comment about Ole's man management, implying that he is some kind of genius at it.

How do you explain the way he has treated Donny, seriously, what kind of man management is that?
 

The Oracle

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I've said it before, and I will say it again...

Steven Gerrard will win the Premier League title as Liverpool manager, before Ole does as the Man Utd manager.
 

The Oracle

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For how long this Klopp comparison will keep going when it has been already dead?

Klopp in his second full season reached CL final while we got kicked out from the group stage in Ole's second full season.

Klopp's 3rd season had Liverpool get 97 points in the league and challenged City, the gods of football according to some, till the very last week, lost only one game in the league, and won CL.

So should we expect this from Ole in his 3rd full season next year or it will be the death of such ridiculous comparison?
You talk absolute sense.

Klopp is levels above Ole as a manager.
He had a proven track record with Dortmund before he arrived at Liverpool.

Klopp has never said, "Trophies are for ego's"
He wouldn't say that because he is a top class manager.

Ole has said it because he is NOT a top class manager.
 

TsuWave

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For how long this Klopp comparison will keep going when it has been already dead?

Klopp in his second full season reached CL final while we got kicked out from the group stage in Ole's second full season.

Klopp's 3rd season had Liverpool get 97 points in the league and challenged City, the gods of football according to some, till the very last week, lost only one game in the league, and won CL.

So should we expect this from Ole in his 3rd full season next year or it will be the death of such ridiculous comparison?
they always also forget to mention Klopp was already one of the best managers in world football by the time he touchdown in Liverpool, you know, titles, cups, CL finals, the works.

Ole came from Molde
 

tenpoless

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Ole has done well to finish 2nd in PL.
But don't forget that he got saved by Bruno last season, maybe he would have gotten the sack otherwise. But this season I actually started to think he had improved when we finished 2nd and had the chance to win EL, I didnt even mind that we got knocked out of CL. But then we lost to Villareal and it seems like doesn't matter how much he improved he is and will never be an exceptional manager. Losing finals or semi finals is a bad habit. And when you think about the way he talked about trophies for egos and such maybe deep inside he realized he's not that good and is content with it. The question it: should we be content with it? it's good that he talked about needing better players he can trust, etc but if what we need is the best players in each positions to win Europa League, not even CL, against Villareal then he's obviously talking bollocks and just want an assurance to win something, mainly not because of him but the players. I mean it's quite clear really. Three years and we still don't know what type of football we're playing. It's like the players themselves need to know and we rely so much on players knowledge and abilities to win a game when football is much more than that. Remember when we played 7 defenders against Arsenal with Sir Alex in charge and won 2-0? you didn't hear him bitch about needing better bench options. He worked with what he had and prepared the players so they knew what to do. Not putting them on the pitch and hope for the best and waiting till half time before even considering subs.
 
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Giggsyking

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Its an insult to football and the entire fan base to compare his man management abilities to Sir Alex Ferguson.
 
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UnitedSofa

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Sir Alex was a superb manager and our best ever manager but his man management skills weren’t exactly incredible and you could compare them to Ole. SAF was well known for falling out with his best players and then selling them on. The only one from memory I can see getting a free ride was Ronaldo.

Becks - Sold
Stam - Sold
Keane - Sold
Ruud - Sold (though a little different, Ruud was the only loser in the Ronaldo/Ruud falling out, which was. Unquestionably he was going to lose that “battle” it created an environment and an untenable situation)

Its an insult to football and the entire fan base to comare his man management abilities to Sir Alex Ferguson.
 

Harold_Giles

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For how long this Klopp comparison will keep going when it has been already dead?

Klopp in his second full season reached CL final while we got kicked out from the group stage in Ole's second full season.

Klopp's 3rd season had Liverpool get 97 points in the league and challenged City, the gods of football according to some, till the very last week, lost only one game in the league, and won CL.

So should we expect this from Ole in his 3rd full season next year or it will be the death of such ridiculous comparison?
I'm hoping we put up a real title challenge next year.

It's a bit strange that our fans think Ole's rebuild is taking too long, no trophies in his 2 full seasons.
When I mention Klopp, who didn't put up a title challenge until his 3rd full season, the same posters come guns blazing in defense of Klopp.

By the way, I'm not saying that Ole is as good a manager Klopp is. However I do believe we're progressing, and that Ole has earned the right to show us what he can achieve next season.

Point is, chances are a rebuild will take a few years before it results in titles, even in the hands of world class managers - which is why I brought up Klopp.
I'm positive that even if Ole fails, his rebuilding so far will act as a springboard for the manager that follows.
Which is a great job in itself, seeing the mess we were after LVG and Mourinho.
 

Tom Van Persie

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Sir Alex was a superb manager and our best ever manager but his man management skills weren’t exactly incredible and you could compare them to Ole. SAF was well known for falling out with his best players and then selling them on. The only one from memory I can see getting a free ride was Ronaldo.

Becks - Sold
Stam - Sold
Keane - Sold
Ruud - Sold (though a little different, Ruud was the only loser in the Ronaldo/Ruud falling out, which was. Unquestionably he was going to lose that “battle” it created an environment and an untenable situation)
The players you named were becoming a problem, Ruud has even admitted it in interviews and he actually apologized to SAF for his behaviour. Don't kid yourself he was an incredible man manager. We're talking about a manager that won a European trophy with fecking Aberdeen.
 

Giggsyking

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Sir Alex was a superb manager and our best ever manager but his man management skills weren’t exactly incredible and you could compare them to Ole. SAF was well known for falling out with his best players and then selling them on. The only one from memory I can see getting a free ride was Ronaldo.

Becks - Sold
Stam - Sold
Keane - Sold
Ruud - Sold (though a little different, Ruud was the only loser in the Ronaldo/Ruud falling out, which was. Unquestionably he was going to lose that “battle” it created an environment and an untenable situation)
I want you to take a deep breath and reread what you wrote there.
 

Acquire Me

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I can make a logical and reasoned point to back up my point and opinion.... truly I’ve never heard or read anything logical, rational, or reasoned from the extremist amongst the Ole In forever and ever and ever, it’s all cult like petty insults and stock replies. You really do have to wonder do they support Man Utd or Ole
I think you will find that it’s a lot of bullshit from every corner of the world. Ole in Ole out does not matter at all.

I am a firm believer in time and progress. Couldn’t give a shit who is in charge as long as we are doing something long term and solid.
 

Gavinb33

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What has been massively overlooked is that Ole has had one full preseason to take the players through.

I'd imagine never having been in that position makes it hard to try new players and new formations because you can't really experiment through the season because you need results, this makes rotation harder as you can't really see new relationships developing etc, I know you can maybe add one or two players without needing a preseason but I imagine it's not an ideal scenario for any manager.
 

Tom Van Persie

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What has been massively overlooked is that Ole has had one full preseason to take the players through.

I'd imagine never having been in that position makes it hard to try new players and new formations because you can't really experiment through the season because you need results, this makes rotation harder as you can't really see new relationships developing etc, I know you can maybe add one or two players without needing a preseason but I imagine it's not an ideal scenario for any manager.
Good points.
 

Garethw

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Sir Alex was a superb manager and our best ever manager but his man management skills weren’t exactly incredible and you could compare them to Ole. SAF was well known for falling out with his best players and then selling them on. The only one from memory I can see getting a free ride was Ronaldo.

Becks - Sold
Stam - Sold
Keane - Sold
Ruud - Sold (though a little different, Ruud was the only loser in the Ronaldo/Ruud falling out, which was. Unquestionably he was going to lose that “battle” it created an environment and an untenable situation)
Whst an absolute load of rubbish! Yeah let’s shit all over our greatest ever manager to stick up for fecking Solskjaer.

The reason Fergie fell out with players was because he demanded 100% and didn’t tolerate insubordination. His approach was, I’m the manager and it’s my way or the highway.

There are literally dozens of examples of Fergie’s incredible man management skills, but of course they get pushed aside to stick up for Solskjaer.
 

pascell

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For how long this Klopp comparison will keep going when it has been already dead?

Klopp in his second full season reached CL final while we got kicked out from the group stage in Ole's second full season.

Klopp's 3rd season had Liverpool get 97 points in the league and challenged City, the gods of football according to some, till the very last week, lost only one game in the league, and won CL.

So should we expect this from Ole in his 3rd full season next year or it will be the death of such ridiculous comparison?
Why are people even comparing Ole to Klopp? Klopp won two league titles, the German Cup once and the German super Cup twice and a CL final before he got to Liverpool, its a total non-starter of a comparison.

Those thinking we'll challenge for the PL next season with a few new shiny signings are clutching at straws, we'll still have the same tactical flaws in our game which will always get found out at the top level.
 

rotherham_red

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Ole has done well to finish 2nd in PL.
But don't forget that he got saved by Bruno last season, maybe he would have gotten the sack otherwise. But this season I actually started to think he had improved when we finished 2nd and had the chance to win EL, I didnt even mind that we got knocked out of CL. But then we lost to Villareal and it seems like doesn't matter how much he improved he is and will never be an exceptional manager. Losing finals or semi finals is a bad habit. And when you think about the way he talked about trophies for egos and such maybe deep inside he realized he's not that good and is content with it. The question it: should we be content with it? it's good that he talked about needing better players he can trust, etc but if what we need is the best players in each positions to win Europa League, not even CL, against Villareal then he's obviously talking bollocks and just want an assurance to win something, mainly not because of him but the players. I mean it's quite clear really. Three years and we still don't know what type of football we're playing. It's like the players themselves need to know and we rely so much on players knowledge and abilities to win a game when football is much more than that. Remember when we played 7 defenders against Arsenal with Sir Alex in charge and won 2-0? you didn't hear him bitch about needing better bench options. He worked with what he had and prepared the players so they knew what to do. Not putting them on the pitch and hope for the best and waiting till half time before even considering subs.
Why should one game make you think no progress has been made, or that the manager isn't good enough? I know it was a final and it was an absolute sickener for me to watch it unfold for me too, but the hot takes over the manager are just silly to me.

If we won, what would have materially changed for us? Would it have meant that we didn't need 4 signings to compete with City? Would it have made any difference at all to our plans?

We already reached the CL by virtue of getting 2nd in a season where Chelsea had a better transfer window than us and the Best Champions Ever™ had added Thiago to their squad. We also had a poor transfer window with our only proper first XI signing not being able to join with us until late October and not in a fit state to contribute until late-November. Add in the scheduling issues with us playing twice per week every week until April, or that we didn't have a preseason at all, with the players not really getting a proper break since May/June summer 2019. That we've managed to get to where we have is a credit to him and the players. And all that should not be forgotten because of one infuriatingly poor day.

Also, with how weird this season has been it's probably worked out in our favour that we lost and are in Pot 2 with Barca, PSG, Juve, Real etc rather than Pot 1 with the likes of Sporting, Lille, and a likely demolished Inter.

We absolutely do need to improve at all levels. The coaches need to improve, the manager needs to improve and the players need to improve, but from my vantage point all of those have improved as time has gone on and there is nothing to say that it can't be improved further.

Also, Sir Alex was a one off, a motivational genius who could tap into the psyche of his players like no one else. Not even Pep or Klopp could pull off what he did v Arsenal that night.
 

BorisManUtd

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Even if he doesn't have success at club in the end, I still like what his doing in terms of strengthening the squad and getting rid of deadwood. Will be interesting to compare our team in September 2021 (presuming we strengthen this summer the way it's planned) to the one from May 2019, before Ole's first transfer window as manager.
 

Ali Dia

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I’m Ole in and have been all along but If he doesn’t rotate and maximise the squad next year I’m going Ole out. It was totally crazy the way he basically ignored the squad players until there was literally no other options despite the form and fitness of certain starting players being patchy. I know he’s just trying to foster a team spirit with his best players and make it so it’s hard to get into his main team group but come on. He gets paid to make tough decisions.

Our bench may not be fancy like city but we pay our backups more than most teams pay their starters yet we can’t use those players occasionally to keep freshness or build form in players outside of the ones he insists on running into the ground? It’s total BS. It might even be some kind of a reaction to how he felt as an impact player. I’m sure he wanted to play in every single game and he would have been very successful if he did but Fergie was a master at keeping players fresh and the squad players hungry. Ole was a perfect example of that himself. I still can’t believe he didn’t use the bench and switch tactics in the final. Gutting to watch one of the most expensive teams in the sport play like underdogs against a painfully average outfit.
 
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Robbie Boy

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We've resorted to questioning SAF's man management skills, and posting a tweet about Ole going back to work, all to defend him. This is desperate stuff lads. That's coming from someone who is happy for him to remain next season.
 

izzydiggler

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He's likable, obviously loves the club blah blah but he's just not a top tier manager.

We're a team with some individuals that can win games with moments of brilliance. When you need your manager to win you the game, he just isn't up to the task.

I'm not even 'Ole out'...there are far bigger problems at the club and I don't want to foam at the mouth when discussing such an important player in our history...but there's no chance we challenge for the biggest trophies with him in charge.
 

united_99

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Sir Alex was a superb manager and our best ever manager but his man management skills weren’t exactly incredible and you could compare them to Ole. SAF was well known for falling out with his best players and then selling them on. The only one from memory I can see getting a free ride was Ronaldo.

Becks - Sold
Stam - Sold
Keane - Sold
Ruud - Sold (though a little different, Ruud was the only loser in the Ronaldo/Ruud falling out, which was. Unquestionably he was going to lose that “battle” it created an environment and an untenable situation)
I believe there is predictably a lot of overreacting from Ole out crowd as usual. But making stuff up to prove a point is not going to help. The progress is there and Ole will be here next season at least and beyond that as well unless he has a Mourinho like last (half) season.
He is not going anywhere just because some folk on redcafe think they know better.
They also somehow believe - despite all the evidence since Fergie left - that we have Bayern’s or City’s board who know all about football, transfers, etc.

But that does not mean that Ole hasn’t made mistakes and even less that he is comparable to Fergie.
There have emerged a lot of strange myths since he retired. The biggest how he mostly won all with man management skills while his amazing assistants (who were so amazing that they won so many invisible trophies before and after they worked with Fergie) did everything else.

Another myth is what you just mentioned. If in his 26 years at United he sold everyone he fell out with we would have had hardly any players left to play for us.
His decision making on and off the pitch (making the right decision at the right time) is something Ole has to learn a lot from, especially on the pitch.

Then, do you really believe Fergie only had a problem with Becks in 2003? Becks and his wife got together in 1996, the birth of his first child (one day after we played Inter in the CL in the treble season) as well as his wedding in the same year got the same media attention a Hollywood superstar or the Royals get. In 98 after his red card in the World Cup media and moronic rival England fans were following him and United even on the training ground and him in his private life.
When he became England captain in 2000 the already intolerable and embarrassing hype around him increased even further.
But in all those years Fergie remained unaware of all that? And only in 2003 he decided enough was enough?
Nope! He only sold Becks because he was starting to decline. He tolerated the drama and media whoring all the time when Becks was a top top player. But he was not going to tolerate it when this was not the case anymore.
Same with Keane. His same interview in 2005/06 which allegedly led to his exit (when he was almost 34, picked up injuries, etc.) would have never led to his exit if he had still been in his prime.
Ruud you already explained yourself.
The only mistake - which Fergie admitted himself - was selling Stam.
 

tenpoless

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Why should one game make you think no progress has been made, or that the manager isn't good enough? I know it was a final and it was an absolute sickener for me to watch it unfold for me too, but the hot takes over the manager are just silly to me.

Also, Sir Alex was a one off, a motivational genius who could tap into the psyche of his players like no one else. Not even Pep or Klopp could pull off what he did v Arsenal that night.
I don't think it's that one game that changed it. It's the fact that we have now lost multiple semis and finals that shows Ole is not yet a winner. It's a big problem of course because the more semis and finals he lost, the bigger the mental block becomes for both him and the team. You look at the team in that game and some of them lacked hunger to win a trophy. It's a challenge he needs to overcome quickly. That game is just a fresh example and it's fair to say we should have won it. Villareal isn't a monster team we should be scared of to the point where we see ourselves as the underdogs, coming up with excuses after excuses.

Anyway, even so it only tips the scale a little bit for me. I still think that the best choice would be to stick with him. It's not like we have a lot of options right now anyway but one thing is clear, he doesn't trust most of the squad players and if we're to bring in any, they have to be good players. Ole is not a manager who could elevate average players into exceptional players, not yet at least based on what we've seen so far because his system relies on the players, the players make the system better and not the other way around.

About Pep or Klopp not being able to pull off what Sir Alex did, you might be right. However they would come up with another strategies. They will try things out and change things around mid game. That's what great managers do, they take risks mid game. Not having a predetermined plan on what to do in the game and stick with it. Because if it doesn't work out then we're doomed.
 

tenpoless

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We've resorted to questioning SAF's man management skills, and posting a tweet about Ole going back to work, all to defend him. This is desperate stuff lads. That's coming from someone who is happy for him to remain next season.
Yeah it's mental. How dare we even speak of Ole comparable to SAF, let alone saying Ole has a better man management skill. SAF booted the players he wanted because he had the reason to do so. If anything that shows leadership. You can't be nice 24/7 when you're a manager of a huge football club. This team lacks leadership. Could you imagine how Sir Alex would react to that Villareal game? pathetic display for what is probably the biggest game of the season for us after getting knocked out of CL. So we failed the first target, had the chance to make it better by achieving a new target (winning EL) and failed again.
 

stw2022

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Said it in other threads but he’s struggled to stamp his personality on the side. I worry that shows lack of drive or ambition. Two and a half years on and if we’re honest we’re still going into every game pinning hopes on Fernandes turning up.

The approach seems to be “let’s hope it turns out ok in the end”. Even if we didn’t like his style of play or he didn’t have the players to execute it how he would like there should at least be one. Maybe struggling to break through but I don’t see that there is.

Every game in terms of how we’ll do it even how we play still feels like an absolute coin toss. It worries me in terms of having faith in his ability to lead us forward that after two and a half years we look like a side managed by a caretaker coach with nothing distinctive or characteristic about how we set up or approach games


Don’t see the foundations, we’re a side who are in with a shout if our top players turn up on the day. For me I see nothing beyond that in terms of our direction
 

United in sin

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The idiotic board reward mediocrity, maybe they get the feeling of acceptance of Ole from large section of our fanbase that support Ole (based mostly on sentimentality). Even if we ignore the trophyless seasons he had till now, his football is small time football playing only on counters, and if he faces a team that park the bus he is usually clueless.
I totally agree. The vast majority of the fan base is willing to make excuses for him no matter the result. 'He needs to be properly backed', 'he just needs three good signings and he'll be ready to challenge'. I simply don't see it.

His over reliance on a small core of players speaks for itself. I wish this club was as ruthless as Chelsea and Juventus who wasted no time ridding themselves of club legends as soon as it was painfully obvious they didn't have what it takes to challenge the best managers in their respective leagues.

Solskjaer has survived periods of bad form which were worthy of teams battling relegation and the board just sat there and let it happen. The season hasn't been a disaster but we can do much better under someone else
 

OmarUnited4ever

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My expectations in Sept 2020 were:
  • Top 4 finish (Pass)
  • Domestic Cup, FA or EFL (Fail)
  • Round of 16 UCL(Fail)
  • or EL cup if crashed out of UCL group stage (Fail).

he did fail in cup fronts this but still managed a comfortable 2nd finish in the league, so my take on him for his future is he gets to continue for another season but the targets must be set higher, and he gets no more excuses so below targets are my expectations for next season:

  • Challenge for the league all the way
  • Reach UCL QF stage at least
  • Domestic cup win at least
The targets above should not be looked at as isolated ones for example reaching SF in UCL but not challenging for the league and finishing top 4 is a failure for me.

Of course Ole needs to be backed but he also must work with what he has, he's been at the club for 2.5 seasons, that's plenty of time for him, next season success must be delivered.

One more thing, i don't expect Ole to have a distinctive style of play, like Pep, he is flexible and that's his way, i don't care how he sets up his team formation and tactics and style of play, but as i said above he must deliver success, or be let go and replaced by another manager /coach.
 

BallonDor99

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Solskjaer is just not an elite manager, how can Man Utd expect to get back to the very top without a top top top manager
 
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