Doubt Conte would go for Everton, but who knows
Carlo Ancelotti | Real Madrid manager
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Maybe it was a respectful separation
first time he left and they didn't like that
second time they didn't like him anymore
No salt, he was average (at best). No great loss imo,The salt in this post
When you've run out of options and you go back to your washed up ex.
I mean, he wasn’t there for that long? He could have got better
Sure, maybe, but no tears here. Also, his heart was not in it, so it's best to move on, anyway
Fair enough
I was surprised they got Ancelotti, with no disrespect to Everton, he was on paper a good appointment. Im sure if they got Conte he would do well...for two years anyway.
Don't think one can be too critical of what he's done this season. Everton are - in terms of money, wages, transfer spend - just below the so-called top six.
And if you factor in that hardly anyone would've expected them to finish above Leicester (even though Everton do have a slightly bigger wage budget) AND that there's always a high flyer/outlier knocking about high up the table (West Ham this season)...it's not too far off what you'd expect, really.
Of course, if you think Ancelotti = top class, serial winning manager...10th looks pretty underwhelming. But it's not as simple as that. He hasn't been hot shit for a while now - and the PL is hard. He hasn't fecked up in any meaningful way if you only look at the league table.
ETA If you look - simplistically, but there you go - at the "money league", Everton "should" finish 7th. And they finished exactly three points behind Spurs (in 7th). It's - again - pretty close to par for the course (in terms of the league - there are obviously other factors to consider too).
And if you factor in that hardly anyone would've expected them to finish above Leicester (even though Everton do have a slightly bigger wage budget) AND that there's always a high flyer/outlier knocking about high up the table (West Ham this season)...it's not too far off what you'd expect, really.
Of course, if you think Ancelotti = top class, serial winning manager...10th looks pretty underwhelming. But it's not as simple as that. He hasn't been hot shit for a while now - and the PL is hard. He hasn't fecked up in any meaningful way if you only look at the league table.
ETA If you look - simplistically, but there you go - at the "money league", Everton "should" finish 7th. And they finished exactly three points behind Spurs (in 7th). It's - again - pretty close to par for the course (in terms of the league - there are obviously other factors to consider too).
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I agree that he did very well at Bournemouth, but I just think his management and spending when he arrived in the PL left a lot to be desired. There were really poor buys aside from the obvious too. He had the money to buy better and to build the squad, but there were still far too many championship players getting game time by the end. He didn’t move them on once he got up.
He never put out good teams in the cups either, giving supporters nothing to look forward to bar a nice finish in the league. I am not a fan at all of tanking the cups under the guise of ensuring survival.
He had the same approach to big games too, 4-5 years in, seemingly learning nothing along the way and never growing in his approach to those games. There was never any sign that he was growing as a manager or becoming more wily.
I think he is a massive gamble and a roll of the dice that Everton can’t afford.
If he can take Bournemouth down, he could certainly have a club like Everton in trouble. It’s been well outlined in this thread already how overrated their current squad is despite the fortune they spent building it.
If Everton can somehow convince Conte to join - i think they've already got a ready made team for him missing a few pieces?
----------Pickford
Keane --- Godfrey--- Holgate
RWB---Allan---Doucoure-----Digne
---------------James
----------Richarlison---DCL
It's almost like a lite version of his Chelsea/Inter teams. If Inter are clearing out players, they might be able to get there hands on Hakimi and he'll slot in perfectly at RWB. Could do with improving at CB too with whatever cash they'll have left.
@SilentWitness - what do you think?
----------Pickford
Keane --- Godfrey--- Holgate
RWB---Allan---Doucoure-----Digne
---------------James
----------Richarlison---DCL
It's almost like a lite version of his Chelsea/Inter teams. If Inter are clearing out players, they might be able to get there hands on Hakimi and he'll slot in perfectly at RWB. Could do with improving at CB too with whatever cash they'll have left.
@SilentWitness - what do you think?
I think he has a lot of potential as a manager, but I do think you’ve made some fair points. I think the low wage bill did hinder him with moving players on (and perhaps a sense of loyalty that didn’t always pay off) and bringing others in, but I agree that a lack of growth in certain aspects, mainly balancing his style of football without leaking so many goals, is definitely a factor against him. I think cup performances are a tricky one, on one hand Swansea winning the league cup is a memory that’ll stay with me forever, but I also think the financial rewards of staying in the top flight is such a massive incentive, especially to a club like Bournemouth which have very little revenue (I might be remembering this incorrectly but I think the Bournemouth stadium is the smallest to ever feature in the premiership). At a bigger club though tanking the clubs is certain not something that can be overlooked, so it’s something he’ll have to learn to balance if he ever gets a job at a bigger club.
I agree that it’s a gamble, and it’s probably easier for me as a non-Everton supporter to want someone like Howe to get the job, over a more experienced surer bet. I think it will be a struggle to make the right appointment whichever direction they go in, as they’ve tried various managers over the last few years, From Martinez, Koeman, Allardyce, Silva, Ancelotti, and they all range massively in style, experience and age. None of them have really managed to nail it down. I guess as you said the squad is a bit unbalanced and it probably will be too risky to go for someone like Howe, especially due to the way his Bournemouth tenure ended.
I think Howe will rebuild his reputation at some point, he’s still very young and I think he has a lot to offer, he just needs to get back in the game and iron out his weaknesses. Maybe Everton is a step too far though.
I really like Graham Potter, and I think he’s going to go to the top, but I don’t think the Everton job is right for him either. Not at this point anyway.
You can outspend all Italian sides probably, so in that sense, he won’t have the usual issue of not being able to buy the players he wants.
The issue is that he really wants to win the CL. So it would have to be quite a project to get Everton to that level.
I really like Conte to be honest and he’d actually coach your team and make them much more tactically sound. Ancelotti is more of a man-management focused manager and not like Conte/Tuchel/Pep when it comes to actual coaching.
Alternatively, there are a lot of promising coaches in the BL but most have already moved recently.
Maybe but with such short notice its unlikely dont you think? unless Everton was planning on him leaving as well I dont see how this could had been smooth.
What is it with clubs hiring ex managers. Real Madrid twice now, Juventus have rehired Allegri, Spurs (apparently want Poch back) and even when clubs don’t rehire the manager that they sacked or left 16 months before it’s the same managers being recycled around clubs of similar stature (not using Real and Everton as an example) but mostly things like Mourinho going from Spurs to Roma, it’s pretty much a sideways move.
Is there genuinely a drought of talented managers at lower level clubs to move up? Are clubs just not interested in taking the risk? Have they seen other top clubs take the risk and considered it a failure, eg Real with the Spanish National coach a few years back, Arsenal and Arteta, some directors at top clubs might also consider Ole at United a failure, or project that’s costing to much and taking too long, or Pirlo at Juventus etc
Genuinely don’t know. But it seems like not long ago clubs were taking risks and sometimes the rewards were huge, eg an unknown French man started to manage Arsenal.
Is there genuinely a drought of talented managers at lower level clubs to move up? Are clubs just not interested in taking the risk? Have they seen other top clubs take the risk and considered it a failure, eg Real with the Spanish National coach a few years back, Arsenal and Arteta, some directors at top clubs might also consider Ole at United a failure, or project that’s costing to much and taking too long, or Pirlo at Juventus etc
Genuinely don’t know. But it seems like not long ago clubs were taking risks and sometimes the rewards were huge, eg an unknown French man started to manage Arsenal.
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Any talk of conte to Everton is hilarious. Theres 0% chance of that happening. Conte is a serial winner who wants to land league titles and CL trophies. PSG if poch leaves is more him than Everton.
We don't know when Real contacted Everton and Ancelloti. Zidane hinted his leaving weeks back. So I am assuming Real knew it well before.
I suppose after that rant from Zidane they needed someone who could be popular with the players. I don't think he's finished as a manager at all, he's just one of those top managers that can do great with the right players, but won't necessarily do the job that someone like Klopp can do. Unfortunately for him, real need a big rebuild right now, he'll be sacked next season.
it shows that 1/2 the time it doesn’t really matter who the manager is. If you don’t give them time, the impact they have is limited.
especially true at a club like Real. How much of a say will he have over the transfers this summer? Very little. So does it really matter who is in charge?
People probably felt the same when they were first linked with Ancelotti… from Everton’s point of view they’ve set a standard, only if they think Ancelotti failed, or was not worth the cost for what he delivered, will they change their criteria.
Ancelotti is a safe appointment who wont rock the boat and will form his tactics around the players he has available to him. Seeing as the Bernerbau is going through a costly rebuild and Madrid have alot of debt thanks to covid. Ancelotti will do what zidane didnt. Use all the young players that Madrid bought and Zidane ignored.
They did go like 9 years without going past the last 16 of the CL, that only changed when they hired Mourinho who got them to 3 SF in a row, before Ancelotti took over and won the CL.
And sometimes a manager does make a difference. But there’s a big correlation between spending/wages and success.
they have had 18 managers in the last 20 years. Barcelona have had 14 in the same time. Is it the manager or just the collection of players brought to the club?
Top 30 Net Spenders over the past 5 years, will surprise quite a few people.
1. Manchester City (-€631m)
2. Manchester United (-€586m)
3. Barcelona (-€471m)
4. Paris Saint-Germain (-€455m)
5. Inter (-€386m)
6. Everton (-€346m)
7. Aston Villa (-€339m)
8. Milan (-€311m)
9. Chelsea (-€308m)
10. Arsenal (-€299m)
11. Brighton (-€259m)
12. Tottenham (-€250m)
13. Wolves (-€249m)
14. Juventus (-€249m)
15. Fulham (-€190m)
16. RB Leipzig (-€176m)
17. West Ham (-€171m)
18. Bayern Munich (-€171m)
19. Napoli (-€165m)
20. Parma - €158m
21. Sheffield United (-€134m)
22. Leicester City (-€134m)
23. Liverpool (-€129m)
24. Leeds United (-€115m)
25. Hertha Berlin (-€109m)
26. Wolfsburg (-€108m)
27. Atletico Madrid (-€104m)
28. Crystal Palace (-€100m)
29. Sevilla (-€92m)
30. Real Madrid (-€91m)
99% sure that Ancelotti will do worse than Zidane if that's the case.
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Thought they would have hired someone more proven instead like Lampard or Arteta
Everton players to their families : "Real Madrid stole my manager!"
Funny how managers like Howe and Potter are rated highly and positively talked about.
Yet people like Bruce and Dyche in particular do the same sort of job and don't get the same positive respect.
Would love to see Dyche and Big Dunc spitting fire on the line for Everton. They need someone like him to put a bit of resilience into that spineless group of players.
You mentioning this makes me think of the potential fireworks of a Conte/Big Dunc team up. Would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that Conte won't go there.
Sean Dyche gets a lot of positive credit, I'm not sure why you'd think otherwise. The logic you’re going by means I don’t respect Bielsa , Moyes or literally any other manager in the world because I didn’t name check them.
As for Bruce, he's had plenty of chances. I'd much rather have Potter managing my team than him, I've seen first hand how good he is. A lot of it will come down to what kind of football you find aesthetically pleasing, but when I’m paying out for a season ticket and investing a lot of time going to games, someone who gets a team playing good on the ball football makes the season far more enjoyable.
And I'm not sure what makes this Everton side "spineless". Why do you think that?
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Ancelotti still had some time on his contract, right? Any word on how much money Everton will get as part of the deal? Given this appears like a swift move, I guess Everton got paid well.
Conte isn't going to Everton. He likes winning league titles every season not scrapping for European qualification spots.
Odd decision my Madrid. They seem to be in the need of a transition and a past it Ancelotti who really is a calming influence rather than someone to revolutionise seems a peculiar choice. I mean, Zidane seems to pretty much be a better version of Ancelotti nowadays - someone who is not very systems heavy but focused on getting the best out of people. Maybe it's just a safe choice to get Madrid though pandemic times.
I'm low key disappointed in Conte not being the hire. As a neutral, watching him blow up in press conferences with the over the hysterical Madrid press would have been hilarious to see. The memes would write themselves.
Ancellotti hasn't covered himself in glory at Everton to say the least - the fact he was walked into the Real Madrid after finishing 10th with an expensively assembled Everton side says a lot.
Everton are probably glad to have him gone, as they have now avoided an awkward situation months down the line where they would have to consider sacking him and paying out a fortune.
Who will replace him is a good question.
Rafa Benitez is an interesting candidate who has been suggested, Steven Gerrard as well has been tipped to join his boyhood club as coach but would he make that move?
I am not convinced by Graham Potter at all, he has his cultists but I don't see what he's doing that other coaches like Steve Bruce or Chris Hughton are doing in terms of results?
Like Eddie Howe he has a big reputation but I don't see what sets him aside. It could be that Everton turn to the likes of Duncan Ferguson, who somehow missed out on joining Ancellotti's backroom team at Madrid.
Everton are probably glad to have him gone, as they have now avoided an awkward situation months down the line where they would have to consider sacking him and paying out a fortune.
Who will replace him is a good question.
Rafa Benitez is an interesting candidate who has been suggested, Steven Gerrard as well has been tipped to join his boyhood club as coach but would he make that move?
I am not convinced by Graham Potter at all, he has his cultists but I don't see what he's doing that other coaches like Steve Bruce or Chris Hughton are doing in terms of results?
Like Eddie Howe he has a big reputation but I don't see what sets him aside. It could be that Everton turn to the likes of Duncan Ferguson, who somehow missed out on joining Ancellotti's backroom team at Madrid.
He gets the same results while playing a different brand of football. That's about it I guess.
I wasn't directing that entirely at you.
I just mean in general Potter and Howe get a lot of positive praise for their style and tactics where as Bruce and Dyche do better jobs, spend less money and get no where near the same amount of praise.
You think Potter is really good then that's your opinion, Brighton have spent over 200m on players, not far off Everton and he finishes 16th with them, but he has them playing good football, so that's ok. Chris Hughton was sacked and he had them in and around the same place in the table.
Howe did a great job getting Bournemouth up, but he spent nearly 200m and almost every signing he made was a disaster and he ended up relegated.
As for Everton being spineless, they finished 10th with a whimper, only won 3 of their last 10 games. Look at how much money they've spent and look at that squad, there's only 2 or 3 players in there that you could classify as reliable.
I do think he was very close to being considered a decent success at Everton...if they had turned just one of those shite home performances into a win and Schmeichel hadn't gone kamikaze against Spurs on the final day they would've finished 7th and qualified for Europe next season. Fine margins. But I guess you expect a top manager to beat those fine margins rather than just miss out.