Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Guy actually has a valid point buried somewhere in his original post about Rashford's selfishness.

Could have made said point without going completely off the rails with the injury scam garbage, but in typical Internet hot-take fashion he couldn't bear to even try and present a balanced viewpoint. Just like STW.

 

[stw2022]

Do you think he is good enough for top 7 teams in other leagues?

yes possibly. Look at Lingard, calls for us to resign him are absurd. But he found a set up in which he has been able to shine. It happens

 

[roonster09]

yes possibly. Look at Lingard, calls for us to resign him are absurd. But he found a set up in which he has been able to shine. It happens

At least some improvement.

 

[amsoUG]

What role they play for Liverpool?

Maddison and Grealish can play anywhere in the attacking third? Maybe in the world where injury is a SCAM.

Rashford, Salah, Mane don't play as wingers, they are wide forwards. Hope this helps, (I doubt it anyways). Maybe they lack "technical profile".

Also players strengths and weakness dictates their position and role. That's why Messi isn't a CB and why Van Dijk isn't attacker. Well done for stating the obvious.

Let me help you rephrase your question by directing it to a world class manager in Pep.
Would Pep play Maddison and Grealish anywhere in the attacking third as he recently did with Foden, KDB and Bernado Silva?

Also talking about wingers, wide forwards et al is the same definitive roles we discussed earlier - roles are becoming more dynamic and are driven by tech-profiles. Not stat-based roles or players - the best scoring teams in the EPL recently have all done it without strikers.

 

[stw2022]

At least some improvement.

I’ve never said otherwise but this insistence you must believe Rashford is an elite player or people will ‘scweam and scweam and scweam until I’m sick’ is ludicrous.

 

[Hammondo]

At the end of the day he's a certain style of player that some don't like and some love.

So it comes down to the type of football we play. For example he wouldn't suit Man city, he suits more counter attac football. He's good at that at any level.

 

[Hammondo]

Do you think he is good enough for top 7 teams in other leagues?

Depends on the style of football.

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

I’ve never said otherwise but this insistence you must believe Rashford is an elite player or people will ‘scweam and scweam and scweam until I’m sick’ is ludicrous.

Please reply to my earlier post with three or four quotes from you

 

[KikiDaKats]

So you are agreeing with me that our players don't deserve to be critcized?

Definitely.

 

[roonster09]

I’ve never said otherwise but this insistence you must believe Rashford is an elite player or people will ‘scweam and scweam and scweam until I’m sick’ is ludicrous.

Well the post @Brexit_Brigade quoted says something else.

No one said Rashford is an elite player, your ability to argue imaginary points is worth an applaud. You are relentless in that.

 

[Threesus]

We can debate his usefulness all day long, but the fact remains that the glazers won’t spend the kind of dough to bring 2 quality wingers, in addition to CB and a DM.

We can only hope that he continues to improve.

 

[Withnail]

I’ve never said otherwise but this insistence you must believe Rashford is an elite player or people will ‘scweam and scweam and scweam until I’m sick’ is ludicrous.

You love a good strawman don't you?

Throwing around nonsensical accusations is only weakening your position and you're looking a little childish here.

 

[roonster09]

Let me help you rephrase your question by directing it to a world class manager in Pep.
Would Pep play Maddison and Grealish anywhere in the attacking third as he recently did with Foden, KDB and Bernado Silva?

Also talking about wingers, wide forwards et al is the same definitive roles we discussed earlier - roles are becoming more dynamic and are driven by tech-profiles. Not stat-based roles or players - the best scoring teams in the EPL recently have all done it without strikers.

The team that won Treble last season did with CF who scored shit loads of goals. So?

No, Grealish and Maddison won't be played as RW. So they won't play every attacking position, forget Pep and could be would be scenario, Leicester fans complained how average Maddison was as a left winger/wide midfielder. So much for technical profile and all that nonsense.

 

[stw2022]

You love a good strawman don't you?

Throwing around nonsensical accusations is only weakening your position and you're looking a little childish here.

You didn't seem to have a problem with other posters being called childish morons in the thread earlier. In fact it's nice my posts get so much attention from you. Thanks.

 

[roonster09]

Depends on the style of football.

Ok

 

[Diabovermelho]

If he's been carrying an injury since September, then why doesn't he pull out of the squad like Mason or VVD to heal properly? He needs some rest, and a full pre season with us to start next season 100%.

 

[stw2022]

At the end of the day a handful of people on the internet don't rate a player as highly as someone else

'Clown'
'Morons'
'Our fan base make me sick'
'Why is this even allowed here?'
'Close the thread'
'Idiots'

Not a thing wrong with those people, of course.

 

[Hammondo]

Ok

Well you are asking for a binary answer when it's not a binary situation. He wouldn't get into a Pep team, but he could in a Klopp team.

 

[roonster09]

Well you are asking for a binary answer when it's not a binary situation. He wouldn't get into a Pep team, but he could in a Klopp team.

Yeah and I said Ok. What's the problem?

 

[King Azaz the Unabridged]

Your tactics have been shown up multiple times here, STW lad.

Just jog on quietly and wait for the next topic to pollute with your straw-manning, people will have forgotten by then. The good thing about a place this size for people like you is that you need to be a sh*tposter for a long, long, long time to really get a reputation.

 

[Posh Red]

At the end of the day a handful of people on the internet don't rate a player as highly as someone else

'Clown'
'Morons'
'Our fan base make me sick'
'Why is this even allowed here?'
'Close the thread'
'Idiots'

Not a thing wrong with those people, of course.

I have absolutely no problem with someone not rating a player. Your argument that you doubt he will continue improve ‘because he’s already played 300 games’ is daft and baseless though

 

[stw2022]

If he's been carrying an injury since September, then why doesn't he pull out of the squad like Mason or VVD to heal properly? He needs some rest, and a full pre season with us to start next season 100%.

That's the thing though he's not missed much game time. This is why I don't know how much we can put down to injury. He was also very good against Liverpool in January. It doesn't make sense that he's been injured else it's awful management to continue to play an injured player. I'm not Ole's biggest fan but would that really happen?

Out of the two possibilities is it more likely the lad was injured all this time and the manager, trainers, coaching staff just didn't give a toss and played him with little regard to condition and constantly risking him worsening his injuries by playing him week after week, month after month......

Or is it it more likely he's claiming to be injured as a defence mechanism against criticism for performances?

I know it means I hate football and the baby Jesus when I say this, but the second to me seems more likely.

 

[roonster09]

Your tactics have been shown up multiple times here, STW lad.

Just jog on quietly and wait for the next topic to pollute with your straw-manning, people will have forgotten by then. The good thing about a place this size for people like you is that you need to be a sh*tposter for a long, long, long time to really get a reputation.

Next topic? Just wait for next day he will start his day with same rubbish in this thread.

 

[Withnail]

You didn't seem to have a problem with other posters being called childish morons in the thread earlier. In fact it's nice my posts get so much attention from you. Thanks.

Other posters can defend themselves or report insults if they are of a personal nature and not directed at the post.

However, it's your passive aggressive shit posting I've a problem with. You've every right to your opinion but you've refused to engage when presented with facts and keep throwing around strawmen and posting as if your a victim of a hate campaign for having an opinion.

 

[stw2022]

I have absolutely no problem with someone not rating a player. Your argument that you doubt he will continue improve ‘because he’s already played 300 games’ is daft and baseless though

He's played 300 games so we should start to be expecting that to show in his performances. He's far more experienced in terms of game time and certainly top-level game time than many of his peers and yet people don't talk about Grealish in the same way. He's similar age, similar level of experience (though far less CL/International experience) and Villa fans expect performances. That's what should happen. That's where we should be with Rashford but we're not and I think the defensiveness shows that deep down people know they're not.

 

[stw2022]

Other posters can defend themselves or report insults if they are of a personal nature and not directed at the post.

However, it's your passive aggressive shit posting I've a problem with. You've every right to your opinion but you've refused to engage when presented with facts and keep throwing around strawmen and posting as if your a victim of a hate campaign for having an opinion.

I'm not a victim of anything. If BlueFish63 thinks I'm a twat for not liking a player I really don't care. I just think it's hilarious how much some are willing to overlook if they agree with the attack. The OP got torn to absolute shreds in the first few pages and I don't even agree with his sentiment. Your issue with me is that I don't rate a player as much as you do and I haven't cowered to insults.

 

[roonster09]

I'm not a victim of anything. If BlueFish63 thinks I'm a twat for not liking a player I really don't care. I just think it's hilarious how much some are willing to overlook if they agree with the attack.

You really don't know what irony means

 

[Withnail]

He's played 300 games so we should start to be expecting that to show in his performances. He's far more experienced in terms of game time and certainly top-level game time than many of his peers and yet people don't talk about Grealish in the same way. He's similar age, similar level of experience (though far less CL/International experience) and Villa fans expect performances. That's what should happen. That's where we should be with Rashford but we're not and I think the defensiveness shows that deep down people know they're not.

Grealish is a full two years older so no they aren't a similar age.

 

[Withnail]

Did Rashford ever actually bring up the fact that he was injured himself?

I've only seen him deflect questions regarding injuries when he's been asked about them. I could well have missed something obviously.

 

[Posh Red]

He's played 300 games so we should start to be expecting that to show in his performances. He's far more experienced in terms of game time and certainly top-level game time than many of his peers and yet people don't talk about Grealish in the same way. He's similar age, similar level of experience (though far less CL/International experience) and Villa fans expect performances. That's what should happen. That's where we should be with Rashford but we're not and I think the defensiveness shows that deep down people know they're not.

Rashford looks like an exceptionally talented 23 year old who’s played 300 games. I’ll say it one last time. You were presented with a list of other players who went on to be top, top players who looked similar to how Rashford does now in similar circumstances. Some of them not even as good as Rashford in those circumstances.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

Rashford is been fecked over due to United being shite for the duration of his time in the first team. From 19 years old he has been looked at to carry the team.

In other eras, Rashford would have been eased in to the team and playing alongside world class players who'd be doing the heavy lifting and letting Rashford learn his trade under less pressure.

Ultimately the lack of quality at United means he's played so much football, and his body is fecked. Regardless of who United are able to sign in summer, Rashford needs to just go away and rest after the Euros and not play again until his injuries are fully healed.

 

[Neymar]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but he's a thouroughly mediocre player. He can do a job for us off the bench but he should never be a starter for a club as big as United. He doesn't have what it takes to play possession football, and so unless we want to keep counter-attacking our way to yet another trophyless year we should get rid or at least buy a couple of decent forwards so he can move down to the bench.

 

[stw2022]

Grealish is a full two years older so no they aren't a similar age.

Up until the age of 23 years and 9 months Grealish had played 34 Premier League games and has never played in Europe.

Rashford is currently 23 years and 9 months and played 179 teams in the Premier League and 51 times in Europe.

There's no question Rashford is a vastly more experienced top-level player than Grealish, even if you want to quibble about the 2 years age difference.

23 and 25 is a 'similar age' anyway.

 

[Someone]

I think he had a bad season by his standards, but it's silly to write him off. People forget how controversial ronaldo was before the 06/07 season. He had a lot of critics and was frustrating at times, but Fergie never lost faith and the rest is history. A lot of top players reach their world class levels by their mid 20s. It's never too late to be world class.

 

[Foxbatt]

Well you are asking for a binary answer when it's not a binary situation. He wouldn't get into a Pep team, but he could in a Klopp team.

Why not? To me problem with Rashford is not his talent. He can dribble, he can control the ball, he can cross and can pass.
What he won't do in a Pep team is trying to take on 4 defenders all the time and losing possession.

 

[stw2022]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but he's a thouroughly mediocre player. He can do a job for us off the bench but he should never be a starter for a club as big as United. He doesn't have what it takes to play possession football, and so unless we want to keep counter-attacking our way to yet another trophyless year we should get rid or at least buy a couple of decent forwards so he can move down to the bench.

Nah that’ll go down fine mate

For what it’s worth I agree. I think he’s a decent player but never a regular starter. If he’s starting the majority of games next season we’ve had a nightmare in the transfer window

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Can this thread die already.

 

[Hammondo]

Why not? To me problem with Rashford is not his talent. He can dribble, he can control the ball, he can cross and can pass.
What he won't do in a Pep team is trying to take on 4 defenders all the time and losing possession.

He's not on the technical level for a Pep team, his athletic strengths are not as important for a Pep team.

 

[stw2022]

He's not on the technical level for a Pep team, his athletic strengths are not as important for a Pep team.

Possibly. I don't think his technical ability is bad necessarily but I do think when you're talking about the type of player sides with expectations of challenging for the major trophies he begins to look average in comparison. We should be seeing his name on the team sheet and expecting a performance, if not every time then most times. I don't think we're anywhere near that.

 

[Threesus]

He's not on the technical level for a Pep team, his athletic strengths are not as important for a Pep team.

For what it’s worth, pep allegedly said that the only player he would consider from Man utd was Marcus. He seems to be pretty decently regarded across the continent and by fans of other teams.

It’s like I said, the Glazers are not going to spend the kind of dough to get us 2 WC forwards/wingers, in addition to a DM and a CB and RB. If we somehow get sancho over the line, I will play him on the left and mason/amad on the right and see how the team looks. If we are playing well, then it’s up to Marcus at that point to try to win his spot back.
And it’s not your post, but someone posted earlier that he doesn’t see Marcus improving beyond what he is right now. I don’t think that’s the case. I think he still has room to grow.