Perhaps you shouldn't take the Caf so seriously. You can take my username off your dartboard
Joel Glazer sets fan forum date (4th June)
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
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Ah yeah no veto. In fairness though if they’d had that group 3 months back the ESL never would have got off the groundHopefully. But there's nothing about vetos in the list below. It's a 50-50 vote share combined with 'consultations'.
This feels like their jumping into a bush before they're pushed off a cliff.
There are no sacrifices being made that will hurt their power in the long run.
Doesn't sound bad in all honesty. But actions speak louder than words. Let's see how much the fans will be integrated in the decision making and how much money will be spent in infrastructure and player material.
Just enough to distract the fans so they can continue driving the club into the ground.
We'll be having these same discussions about the Glazers in 16 years time.
We'll be having these same discussions about the Glazers in 16 years time.
1. Only means something if fans get a veto
2. Consultations don't amount to anything
3. See 1 and 2
4. That's the least they could do. They don't deserve any credit for this
5. No figures or targets have been quoted, so this might just mean that the janitor gets a new mop
6. See 2
7. See 2 and 3
8. Capitalism. Sticks in the craw, but that's the way the world works so okay
9. Capitalism. Sticks in the craw, but that's the way the world works so okay
10. No different from any other summer
Pretty meaningless overall.
MUST calling for people to sign up in readiness for shares to be bought:
https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry...se-following-amber-light-for-fan-share-scheme
https://www.imust.org.uk/Blog/Entry...se-following-amber-light-for-fan-share-scheme
I don’t get issues with dividends. Under PLC we paid ten, under Edwards he took them. Nobody alive has ever remembered a time when the people who owned us haven’t skimmed from the top.
It’s such a bizarre issue to get angry about or to act as if we’ve suddenly noticed it happens
It’s such a bizarre issue to get angry about or to act as if we’ve suddenly noticed it happens
Maybe they can use the Phoenix Fund to buy some? That’s surely sat in a protected bank account somewhere just for the occasion. The campaign received a lot of publicity so I’m imaging they have quite a lot.
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When did this place become so fecking negative? They’ve just opened a dialogue with the fans, seem to be willing to listen to our input, committed to an overhaul of OT and training ground - things are clearly moving in the right direction. Yet most will still find a way to spin it negatively, come on
I know that most people on here have zero clue about accounting and finance but if the shares are owned by the Glazers or their other businesses, they can't put the money into the club without creating more debt for the club. That's not how that works.That would be an amazing outcome. So they’ve given 15% of the club they legally own to fans with equal voting rights and say half the money raised gets spent on the club...and you’re moaning that would be a negative
For the record I expect them to pocket 100% of the money raised because Glazers gonna Glazer.
For example, if you are a small business owner and you want to fund your own business from your own pocket, that will be accounted as business loan that your business then owes you.
But anyway, back to moaning and screaming
Maybe because they don't trust the slimy cretins. They're suddenly listening to the fans input after being responsible for spearheading the death of English football and it's culture, having previously run the club into the ground. People can be as negative as they want as far as I'm concerned.
apologises for 16 years of getting it wrong. Then says dont give a shit about the debt and dividends are cool
Well yeah they did that, and now seem to have realised their mistake. Everything won’t be perfect overnight but this at least is an improvement. Babysteps
Yeah this is where I'm at with this.
I just can't see how they make these commitments without seeing them through.
They were never going to agree to leave the club in the fan meeting nor were they going to commit to paying off the debt. People need to understand where we are with this realistically and appreciate where we have got to thus far.
Obviously it's a continuing process but some folk are expecting dramatic changes overnight.
It is because the debt is currently only costing $20m per year.
To pay off the debt, it will pretty much be paying 25 years of that interest in one go. And that is only to pay of the $500m debt, not the interest that will have to be paid on top of that.
If the Glazers paid it off, there is no way the they wouldn't take money out to cover this huge expense. If it was paid by the club, it will damage cashflows and ability to spend in other areas. Either way, we wouldn't see the benefit of paying it off until, at least, 2046 (probably longer).
It is better for all that the debt is left as it is at this time.
Well ”sell up” was always a crap solution when talking about a 3bn dollar business so it’s a step in the right direction for sure.
Will many/any of you buy the shares?
I’m pretty broke after the last year but I could get 1/2k together and I’d like to be a small part of any fan movement that goes ahead
I’m pretty broke after the last year but I could get 1/2k together and I’d like to be a small part of any fan movement that goes ahead
I've been looking at his ugly work for a long time now, the face can't make it any worse.
Sure. I've pissed away a fair amount of money in crypto the past few months. Why not try something new.
Why would I want to invest in a football club that is more than $500 million dollars in debt, when it's rivals City & Chelsea who have vastly wealthier owners are not.
Did Joel Glazer offer to pay of the leverage debt his family put the club into? What happens in ten years time when that debt keeps accumulating?
Did Joel Glazer offer to pay of the leverage debt his family put the club into? What happens in ten years time when that debt keeps accumulating?
Snap! Same here.
The only hesitation I have is the fact that every penny I spend will go into the Glazers' pockets. I'd need to get back something more substantial than a certificate in return.
I'll wait and see if MUST give it the green light first.
I certainly wouldn’t be doing it to make cash! The glazers will surely hold us back a long while yet.
Just hopeful that if the fans got a bit of power back we can help steer the club in the right direction and keep vetoing the super league and whatever other American twists they want to put on us in the future.
Is crypto not making all of you wildly rich? I can’t get my head around it. My friend has had some since Silk Road. Jammy.
The Fan Share scheme, if it's not all talk and it actually goes ahead, is a big step forward. Allowing fans an equal share in the club and the right to vote effectively puts an end to any future attempts at joining a breakaway league, not to mention any other decision that may adversely affect the club.
It's huge.
I'm hardly a bottomless pit, but a chance to purchase shares in the club you've supported your entire life doesn't come around every day.
I'm genuinely considering it.
What kinda of money we going to be talking
But to get an equal number of votes as a the Glazer family , wont fans have to buy an equal amount of shares as the Family? If the business is worth £3 to £4 billion , does that not mean fans will have to raise up to £2 billion? If fans can only raise enough to buy 10% of the shares, they wouldn't be entitled to an equal number of votes, or is there something I am missing?
Same. I rarely even get to games anymore but the glazers gave me enough of a fright to think fans need to take some power back or we will actually end up the footballing version of Disneyland
Will have to see how much weight there is behind any of this. "Fan consultation" and "major investment" could mean anything.
I note they cited the 100m they spent on OT over the last 10 years, for example. They could claim that's "major investment" if they wanted to, when in reality it would require multiple times that to being OT remotely near the standard of the current best stadiums.
Essentially it's a promise from a liar. I'll wait until we see actions before giving them any credit.
I note they cited the 100m they spent on OT over the last 10 years, for example. They could claim that's "major investment" if they wanted to, when in reality it would require multiple times that to being OT remotely near the standard of the current best stadiums.
Essentially it's a promise from a liar. I'll wait until we see actions before giving them any credit.
Is it though?
Let's say the Glazers have 1,000,000 votes and the fans have 1,000,000 votes. All it takes for the Glazers to get their way is for 1 solitary fan to vote against the interests of the club.
Taking the ESL as an example, the Glazer might conceivably have won by 1,000,032 to 999,968 despite 99.9968% of the United fans being against it.
I hope you're right. But nothing in the public statement suggests there are any meaningful contingencies in place.
I'm sure I could scrap a few quid together.
We could then vote on things on here (for those who contributed)
The Glazers share of the voting rights will trump the fans share, basically its a meaningless exercise and them attempting to 'communicate with the fans'.
How are things moving in the right direction? The club is still saddled with their debt and they've just said they'll carry on taking dividends. The club won't move in the right direction until they're out of the club.
I definitely have zero clue how business works! Hypothetically if they were feeling incredibly generous could they not use the money raised as a loan for club infrastructure projects and just never ask for repayments? Or even just write it off? There must be some way to inject that money into the club - it’s finance after all!I know that most people on here have zero clue about accounting and finance but if the shares are owned by the Glazers or their other businesses, they can't put the money into the club without creating more debt for the club. That's not how that works.
For example, if you are a small business owner and you want to fund your own business from your own pocket, that will be accounted as business loan that your business then owes you.
But anyway, back to moaning and screaming
Well said. Sounds positive for now. Let’s hope they really act on it.
They should be putting some of the money raised from shares towards reducing the debt though.
Yep, debt isn’t always a bad thing and depending on the sources of debt (they all have different interest rates attached to them), it can be cheaper than owners capital/equity investment which has a return attached to it in the form of dividends etc. (Noting dividends aren’t a legal requirement to be paid).