Has the cult of Rashford become more important than the player?

Hammondo

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Possibly. I don't think his technical ability is bad necessarily but I do think when you're talking about the type of player sides with expectations of challenging for the major trophies he begins to look average in comparison. We should be seeing his name on the team sheet and expecting a performance, if not every time then most times. I don't think we're anywhere near that.
I not saying he's technically bad, but the demands Pep has and the options he has, Rashford is not being picked, he suits other styles.
 

stw2022

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I not saying he's technically bad, but the demands Pep has and the options he has, Rashford is not being picked, he suits other styles.
What are these demands that you don't think he's capable of meeting?
 

Hammondo

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For what it’s worth, pep allegedly said that the only player he would consider from Man utd was Marcus. He seems to be pretty decently regarded across the continent and by fans of other teams.

It’s like I said, the Glazers are not going to spend the kind of dough to get us 2 WC forwards/wingers, in addition to a DM and a CB and RB. If we somehow get sancho over the line, I will play him on the left and mason/amad on the right and see how the team looks. If we are playing well, then it’s up to Marcus at that point to try to win his spot back.
And it’s not your post, but someone posted earlier that he doesn’t see Marcus improving beyond what he is right now. I don’t think that’s the case. I think he still has room to grow.
The problem for me is he's a finisher more than creator, same for greenwood. This causes us to have a big lack of creativity.
 

stw2022

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His close control and passing are not good enough, nevermind his decision making.
Well...yes.


I disagree with your last post about Greenwood though his control is excellent and I think he's also aware and in tune with what's going on around him to make me hopeful he could be just as effective in helping the team create chances and not just being a finisher. Though I guess we'll know more down the line
 

Hammondo

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Well...yes.


I disagree with your last post about Greenwood though his control is excellent and I think he's also aware and in tune with what's going on around him to make me hopeful he could be just as effective in helping the team create chances and not just being a finisher. Though I guess we'll know more down the line
I was just commenting on Rashford for the record.
 

Foxbatt

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Rashford can be taught when to pass and when to dribble. Letting him do his own thing is the major issue. Pep is not going to ask him nor let him do what he is doing now. If Sterling can get into a Pep team so can Rashford. Pep doesn't pass for the sake of passing.
 

Doracle

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Nah that’ll go down fine mate

For what it’s worth I agree. I think he’s a decent player but never a regular starter. If he’s starting the majority of games next season we’ve had a nightmare in the transfer window
If we get to a position where Rashford isn’t starting and we’ve first replaced all players worse than him in our starting 11, then we’ve spent close to a billion and will have the worlds best starting 11. If that’s your expectations for a transfer window beyond a “nightmare” then I fear you are in for a disappointing summer.
 

El Jefe

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At the end of the day a handful of people on the internet don't rate a player as highly as someone else

'Clown'
'Morons'
'Our fan base make me sick'
'Why is this even allowed here?'
'Close the thread'
'Idiots'

Not a thing wrong with those people, of course.
So true. Name calling isn't allowed on the Caf unless you're defending Rashford it seems. Might even get a like for it who knows.
 

Will Singh

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The thing is I find myself annoyed watching Rashford and I agree I can’t see him getting any better then he is BUT the numbers he does are decent but the problem is he doesn’t/can’t perform for 90 minutes. Is that because he’s apparently playing in pain/injury or is that just an excuse when he performs badly?
If we have a chance to replace him then I definitely think that’s the way forward. Sancho on the left (he can play there) would mean Greenwood gets more games and Rashford can be managed better (rested)?
 
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when you're talking about the type of player sides with expectations of challenging for the major trophies he begins to look average in comparison
Examples of some of these players in the Premier League:

Mahrez - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Bernardo Silva - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Foden - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Sterling - fewer goals than Rashford this season
Mane - as many goals and assists as Rashford this season
Grealish - fewer goals than Rashford this season
Pulisic - you can see where this is going, I presume
Mount - yup, the pattern is well established by now

All this while playing like garbage for at least a full two months to wrap up the season. Must be some player to have this much of an impact on football matches while looking so utterly average and incompetent on the ball, right!

Maybe he just shanks it into the net or a teammate's path every time while he's hobbling around faking injuries and tripping over his own feet. Or maybe all these other guys just put their technique and competence to other, more important uses.

Or maybe this is just what happens when you spout the kind of nonsense I quoted earlier today (feel free to respond to the top-7-teams-in-any-top-league part whenever you get the chance, love) and are compelled to double, triple and quadruple down on it and resort to typical internet-forum tactics for fear of losing face.
 

Foxbatt

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Examples of some of these players in the Premier League:

Mahrez - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Bernardo Silva - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Foden - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Sterling - fewer goals than Rashford this season
Mane - as many goals and assists as Rashford this season
Grealish - fewer goals than Rashford this season
Pulisic - you can see where this is going, I presume
Mount - yup, the pattern is well established by now

All this while playing like garbage for at least a full two months to wrap up the season. Must be some player to have this much of an impact on football matches while looking so utterly average and incompetent on the ball, right!

Maybe he just shanks it into the net or a teammate's path every time while he's hobbling around faking injuries and tripping over his own feet. Or maybe all these other guys just put their technique and competence to other, more important uses.

Or maybe this is just what happens when you spout the kind of nonsense I quoted earlier today (feel free to respond to the top-7-teams-in-any-top-league part whenever you get the chance, love) and are compelled to double, triple and quadruple down on it and resort to typical internet-forum tactics for fear of losing face.
Most of those players are midfield players.
 

United in sin

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The entire thread is shocking and exposing some real nastiness in the fanbase...

You'd think it's rival fans from twitter posting with some of the venom being posted
It's no wonder Rashford is always racially abused whenever he has a bad game. I used to think Uniteds fanbase was better than most but the blinders are off. Social media and online forums have exposed the worst of the worst
 

Teja

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Examples of some of these players in the Premier League:

Mahrez - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Bernardo Silva - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Foden - fewer goals and assists than Rashford this season
Sterling - fewer goals than Rashford this season
Mane - as many goals and assists as Rashford this season
Grealish - fewer goals than Rashford this season
Pulisic - you can see where this is going, I presume
Mount - yup, the pattern is well established by now

All this while playing like garbage for at least a full two months to wrap up the season. Must be some player to have this much of an impact on football matches while looking so utterly average and incompetent on the ball, right!

Maybe he just shanks it into the net or a teammate's path every time while he's hobbling around faking injuries and tripping over his own feet. Or maybe all these other guys just put their technique and competence to other, more important uses.

Or maybe this is just what happens when you spout the kind of nonsense I quoted earlier today (feel free to respond to the top-7-teams-in-any-top-league part whenever you get the chance, love) and are compelled to double, triple and quadruple down on it and resort to typical internet-forum tactics for fear of losing face.

Most of those players are midfield players.
I mean some of them are midfielders sometimes, but mostly in attacking midfield or wide attack. I mostly agree with what Brexit_Brigade is saying, but there's nuance that's missing as well, and you'd literally have to go player by player to compare which is kind of a pain. I'll attempt a couple:

Grealish you'd have to adjust for him playing at a bottom half club vs Rashford at a team second in the league. He also influences play a lot more by making key passes, ball carries etc. Villa run most of their play through him. I'm pretty convinced that he'd do better than Rashford if he played LW for us.

Mane's (and Liverpool's) struggles this season have been well documented. Salah has become a lot more selfish, Pool attack didn't click, Firmino went to shit etc. Past 2-3 seasons he easily beats Rashford (both this year and compared to the past two years). Yeah he's been better than Mane in 20/21 - that's not really saying a lot.

Pulisic - He's just been bad, I don't think anyone's claiming he's a good attacker on this forum

Rashford - In his defence, we know he's been struggling with injury and not even been playing full 90s since March.
 

roseguy64

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The problem with Rashford is that the worse his form is, the more selfish he gets and the more he overcomplicates things and tries to do it all on his own. Like he belives if he just gets a goal hes going to turn it around.

Considering hes been playing through injury and is probably knackered, you get a situation where hes had a prolonged period of poor form, and hes making many wrong calls because of it.

His off the pitch work is admirable, but honestly i dont think hes rated higher as a footballer because of it
This pretty much. When he had that terrible period of form a few seasons ago under Mourinho it was because he kept doing too much once the bad form hit. When he's in good form then he plays it much simpler and things come off for him. He's just got to get over that bad habit of thinking he needs to be superman when he's going through it.
 

KM

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Most of those players are midfield players.
Yes. Mahrez, Sterling, Bilva, Pulisic, Mane and Grealish are established midfield players. Agreed.
 

9 Stone Elvis

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It's no wonder Rashford is always racially abused whenever he has a bad game. I used to think Uniteds fanbase was better than most but the blinders are off. Social media and online forums have exposed the worst of the worst
That is an absolutely disgraceful comment and frankly increasingly typical of the level of "debate". If you are suggesting that its a similar minded person who racially abuses Marcus Rashford to any of the people who have dared to be critical in this thread even the worst comments then thats completely out of line IMO.

I think there is a valid discussion to be had about the expectation of a front player in a top team and whether that is or can be Rashford. If even the worst criticism is going to get you lumped in with racists or even just people who abuse players on Social Media then I think the thread has jumped the shark and I'll be surprised if anyone wants to continue to talk about it.
 

roonster09

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I mean some of them are midfielders sometimes, but mostly in attacking midfield or wide attack. I mostly agree with what Brexit_Brigade is saying, but there's nuance that's missing as well, and you'd literally have to go player by player to compare which is kind of a pain. I'll attempt a couple:

Grealish you'd have to adjust for him playing at a bottom half club vs Rashford at a team second in the league. He also influences play a lot more by making key passes, ball carries etc. Villa run most of their play through him. I'm pretty convinced that he'd do better than Rashford if he played LW for us.

Mane's (and Liverpool's) struggles this season have been well documented. Salah has become a lot more selfish, Pool attack didn't click, Firmino went to shit etc. Past 2-3 seasons he easily beats Rashford (both this year and compared to the past two years). Yeah he's been better than Mane in 20/21 - that's not really saying a lot.

Pulisic - He's just been bad, I don't think anyone's claiming he's a good attacker on this forum

Rashford - In his defence, we know he's been struggling with injury and not even been playing full 90s since March.
Since the last season there isn't much difference when it comes to Mane and Rashford in productivity. Yes, Mane struggled this season but we always ignore Rahsford played half of the season with AP, Lingard, James support when players like Martial, Pogba were injured.

There are many posters who rated Pulisic not only as good attacker but much better than Rashford, well we don't have to go through all that, as per them, Rashford is the worst ever player to play for any PL team. So best ignored.
 

Bebestation

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The fact is that when United supporters don’t get their craving for success administered then they will look to put down their best of players for failing rather than their worst.
 

roseguy64

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You are going to wait for years and possibly he is going to remain 'injured' for years since this injury thing is a SCAM. Playing poorly is down to his decision making which has alot to do with poor awareness and selfishness.



You must be forgetting that apart from this season, Martial has always had a better return than Rashford.
To tell you the truth, media bias aside, Martial FC 'fandomism' aside, English passion 'merchantism' aside, Martial is a better footballer.


G/As are very deceptive - that's why many agree that Sancho, Grealish, Mason Mount & Foden performed and seem to be better footballers than Rashford even with fewer G/As. He does need to develop much more because the lads in his position know how to play ball and don't go hunting for stats.
I really hope you never get promoted from the newbie forum.
 

roseguy64

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Did Rashford ever actually bring up the fact that he was injured himself?

I've only seen him deflect questions regarding injuries when he's been asked about them. I could well have missed something obviously.
Well Rashford had to miss the last England internationals in the second half of the season because either his injury worsened or he got a new one.
 

9 Stone Elvis

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The fact is that when United supporters don’t get their craving for success administered then they will look to put down their best of players for failing rather than their worst.
that’s just not true. Plenty of players are criticised all the time, most United fans acknowledge the need for another defender and that the midfield needs work. That doesn’t preclude discussion as to whether the attack is at the level it needs to be.
 

Bebestation

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that’s just not true. Plenty of players are criticised all the time, most United fans acknowledge the need for another defender and that the midfield needs work. That doesn’t preclude discussion as to whether the attack is at the level it needs to be.
Yes and our striker is a 34 year old and our Rw is a striker at the age of 20 and our other RW is under19.

Yet it’s Rashford that gets picked up by this random fans when season by season Rashford has been one of our most important players.

I agree that Ole has over used him but this cult of Rashford shit is bullshit - he is a valuable player for United.

Do you remember how people were crying us to sign Pedro Neto :lol: the guy is a next level of crap compared to Rashford.

If Rashford was playing for a different club and from a different country origin people would want us to buy him.
 

Champ

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Did Rashford ever actually bring up the fact that he was injured himself?

I've only seen him deflect questions regarding injuries when he's been asked about them. I could well have missed something obviously.
Yes, he has mentioned it several times. His last mention of an injury was after the Europa Final.

He has also scheduled surgery after the Euro's for his shoulder Injury which he has carried all season.
 

roonster09

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Yes, he has mentioned it several times. His last mention of an injury was after the Europa Final.

He has also scheduled surgery after the Euro's for his shoulder Injury which he has carried all season.
As per few, it will be just a set up and a fake surgery show.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Yes and our striker is a 34 year old and our Rw is a striker at the age of 20 and our other RW is under19.

Yet it’s Rashford that gets picked up by this random fans when season by season Rashford has been one of our most important players.

I agree that Ole has over used him but this cult of Rashford shit is bullshit - he is a valuable player for United.

Do you remember how people were crying us to sign Pedro Neto :lol: the guy is a next level of crap compared to Rashford.

If Rashford was playing for a different club and from a different country origin people would want us to buy him.
Weird thing to say Neto is very young and looks like a top class player in the making.
 

Withnail

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Yes, he has mentioned it several times. His last mention of an injury was after the Europa Final.

He has also scheduled surgery after the Euro's for his shoulder Injury which he has carried all season.
The interview I saw after the final was that he was asked about it in relation to the Euros and didn't really want to discuss it. There is a bit of a narrative building that he's hiding poor performances behind the excuse of an injury. It doesn't seem to me that he's talking about any specific injury a whole lot or bringing it up himself.
 

Champ

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The interview I saw after the final was that he was asked about it in relation to the Euros and didn't really want to discuss it. There is a bit of a narrative building that he's hiding poor performances behind the excuse of an injury. It doesn't seem to me that he's talking about any specific injury a whole lot or bringing it up himself.
He literally said that 6 or 7 players, including himself were carrying injuries for the final, and that he was carrying his injury since September.

In regards to not talking about it much, that's because he doesn't want to use it as an excuse.

Again, and I paraphrase slightly, he has stated that he 'knows the limits of what his body can do' and that he can 'rest when he retires'.
Doesn't sound like a man hiding behind his injuries, but it does sound like a man talking about his injuries!
 

Lentwood

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Ah, I remember this guy from the last "is Rashford actually a midtable player?" thread.

Another from the "yeah, the stats are perfectly good, but he fails my eye test!" lot.
Nope. That was never my point. I tried to explain it in a simple way due to not wanting to have to type out a PHD thesis in every post - however, I have realised that’s not the way to do it because if you leave any kind of ambiguity in your argument people on this forum will manipulate it.

So here’s my argument in full. Broken down for ease of reading/understanding.

1) I only care about what our players achieve in the PL, for the most part. We play 60+ games in all competitions, which is more than most other teams in the league. We also play more cup games than most other teams in the league, and very often they are more open/against moderate opponents. Therefore, when I am evaluating a players contributions, I’m looking predominantly at their contribution in PL games.

2) I don’t know where this sudden obsession with assists has come from but it’s not really a great measure of performance on it’s own. We all know not all assists are created equal. Pogba could play a 60 yard pass which Rashford rolls sideways to Bruno, who then scores from 35 yards and that’s an assist for Rashford. Likewise, of course goals are important in football but again, not all goals are created equal. There’s more context needed to understand how these goals where scored, when they were scored, who they where scored against, what state was the game at when they where scored etc..Basically, what I am saying is only looking at a players statistics is really only half of the picture at best.

3) Now, as a pointed out elsewhere (and have since been misrepresented over and over again), some players get SO MANY goals and assists that there is an argument to say that that is a good contribution in and of itself. If you imagine a graph with “performance” across the horizontal axis and “goals/assists” across the vertical, the very best players would obviously be top right - however, most players aren’t Messi/Ronaldo so there is a trade-off. Now, my point remains, if a player puts in average performances but scores/assists a tonne of goals, then I might be willing to overlook their shortcomings. I’m thinking someone like Bruno here, to a certain degree. Personally, I think his all-round game is so-so. He makes plenty of mistakes, gives the ball away on a regular basis etc., etc...however, for a midfielder, his numbers are very good. Plus, his work-rate and obvious threat occupy the opposition and free up space/creates chances for others.

4) So, following on from Pt.4, and please re-read that whenever you feel inclined to misrepresent my point, Rashford, by fairly common consensus, is a very “hit and miss” player. When he is good, he can be very good. When he is bad, he stinks the place out. The trouble is, there are more “bad” games than there are good. I don’t think that’s a controversial opinion. Even his biggest fans accept he was poor at times last season and at least half of the season before. There may be excuses, there may not be, that can be argued elsewhere. So, for a player to be regularly average/below average and play for a club like Utd with aspirations for titles and trophies, I’d be expecting excellent numbers. Currently Rashford averages a goal every 4/5 PL games and about the same with regard assists. I don’t call that “excellent”. I don’t even really call it “very good”. I think we can debate somewhere between “decent and good”.

5) You say “eye-test” as if in someway mocking or making light of the fact that someone can claim to be able to tell something about a player over and above just looking at their statistics, which I find bizarre. Of course the “eye-test” is important, otherwise why would clubs employ hundreds of Scouts? Why wouldn’t they just go on the Premier League website and sign whichever player posts the best numbers? An experienced footballer/watcher of football can see things in the “mundane” moments of a football game that are not caught by statistics, or at least not the one’s freely available and or used by your average fan. Take the Europa League final...how many times did Rashford make an unforced error? Who is measuring that? I don’t have the statistics, I only have my “eye-test”. How many times did Rashford stand and watch as Cavani (11 years his senior) run past him to close an opponent down or make a tackle? How many times did Rashford make the wrong choice? Where are the statistics for that? The fact is, football will always be subjective. The problem for the pro-Rashford posters is statistics are all they have at the moment because 70% of his performances stink and perhaps even more damning, his attitude looks off, for whatever reason.

6) I never set out with an agenda to pan Rashford. I have no agenda against any of our players. If I was asked to give my honest opinion on Rashford I would say “average PL inside-forward/winger”. I’m not claiming he’s crap or useless or should be sold. I will consistently question the people who make excuses for him over and over and question why other players aren’t afforded the same luxury? I class Rashford as about as good/on a level with Scott McTominay, but I love Scott McTominay and I bet you can’t find a damning post from me about him. And the reason for that is mainly because I don’t have to hear nonsense on a daily basis about how McTominay is ‘as good as Scholes/Gerrard/Vieira/Keane’ or is a ‘world class talent’. People just accept his limitations and provide a reasonable analysis of his performances. For some reason, that doesn’t seem to be applied to Rashford, who is just wildly over-rated for whatever reason.
 
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Now, my point remains, if a player puts in average performances but scores/assists a tonne of goals, then I might be willing to overlook their shortcomings. I’m thinking someone like Bruno here, to a certain degree. Personally, I think his all-round game is so-so. He makes plenty of mistakes, gives the ball away on a regular basis etc., etc...however, for a midfielder, his numbers are very good.
This is the part where I point out (again) that the only difference in Rashford and Bruno's end products this season comes from penalties. From open play in the league: Fernandes 8 goals 12 assists, Rashford 11 goals 9 assists.

Oops, time to bring out that eye test again!
 
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I mean some of them are midfielders sometimes, but mostly in attacking midfield or wide attack. I mostly agree with what Brexit_Brigade is saying, but there's nuance that's missing as well, and you'd literally have to go player by player to compare which is kind of a pain.
Of course, and the point of that post wasn't for me to claim Rashford is better than all of those players.

The point was to yet again laugh at the notion that there's some massive gulf in quality between him and them, to the extent that his is one of the most urgent positions to upgrade in the XI. And that people who formed this belief a while ago are now so stubborn that they'll post entire paragraphs of waffle like Lentwood's above - what that guy is doing is handwaving the objective performance indicators away by saying "but but assists can mean anything, even a 5 yard pass leading to a 35-yarder" and then leaning on Rashford's overall career appearances tally to say he's a one-goal-in-4-games player because that way he can ignore the fact that the player's productivity has improved significantly since 2019.

Which is literally the argument people have been trying to explain to the likes of him and STW (still waiting for you, bud!) over multiple threads now.
 

Adnan

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Nope. That was never my point. I tried to explain it in a simple way due to not wanting to have to type out a PHD thesis in every post - however, I have realised that’s not the way to do it because if you leave any kind of ambiguity in your argument people on this forum will manipulate it.

So here’s my argument in full. Broken down for ease of reading/understanding.

1) I only care about what our players achieve in the PL, for the most part. We play 60+ games in all competitions, which is more than most other teams in the league. We also play more cup games than most other teams in the league, and very often they are more open/against moderate opponents. Therefore, when I am evaluating a players contributions, I’m looking predominantly at their contribution in PL games.

2) I don’t know where this sudden obsession with assists has come from but it’s not really a great measure of performance on it’s own. We all know not all assists are created equal. Pogba could play a 60 yard pass which Rashford rolls sideways to Bruno, who then scores from 35 yards and that’s an assist for Rashford. Likewise, of course goals are important in football but again, not all goals are created equal. There’s more context needed to understand how these goals where scored, when they were scored, who they where scored against, what state was the game at when they where scored etc..Basically, what I am saying is only looking at a players statistics is really only half of the picture at best.

3) Now, as a pointed out elsewhere (and have since been misrepresented over and over again), some players get SO MANY goals and assists that there is an argument to say that that is a good contribution in and of itself. If you imagine a graph with “performance” across the horizontal axis and “goals/assists” across the vertical, the very best players would obviously be top right - however, most players aren’t Messi/Ronaldo so there is a trade-off. Now, my point remains, if a player puts in average performances but scores/assists a tonne of goals, then I might be willing to overlook their shortcomings. I’m thinking someone like Bruno here, to a certain degree. Personally, I think his all-round game is so-so. He makes plenty of mistakes, gives the ball away on a regular basis etc., etc...however, for a midfielder, his numbers are very good. Plus, his work-rate and obvious threat occupy the opposition and free up space/creates chances for others.

4) So, following on from Pt.4, and please re-read that whenever you feel inclined to misrepresent my point, Rashford, by fairly common consensus, is a very “hit and miss” player. When he is good, he can be very good. When he is bad, he stinks the place out. The trouble is, there are more “bad” games than there are good. I don’t think that’s a controversial opinion. Even his biggest fans accept he was poor at times last season and at least half of the season before. There may be excuses, there may not be, that can be argued elsewhere. So, for a player to be regularly average/below average and play for a club like Utd with aspirations for titles and trophies, I’d be expecting excellent numbers. Currently Rashford averages a goal every 4/5 PL games and about the same with regard assists. I don’t call that “excellent”. I don’t even really call it “very good”. I think we can debate somewhere between “decent and good”.

5) You say “eye-test” as if in someway mocking or making light of the fact that someone can claim to be able to tell something about a player over and above just looking at their statistics, which I find bizarre. Of course the “eye-test” is important, otherwise why would clubs employ hundreds of Scouts? Why wouldn’t they just go on the Premier League website and sign whichever player posts the best numbers? An experienced footballer/watcher of football can see things in the “mundane” moments of a football game that are not caught by statistics, or at least not the one’s freely available and or used by your average fan. Take the Europa League final...how many times did Rashford make an unforced error? Who is measuring that? I don’t have the statistics, I only have my “eye-test”. How many times did Rashford stand and watch as Cavani (11 years his senior) run past him to close an opponent down or make a tackle? How many times did Rashford make the wrong choice? Where are the statistics for that? The fact is, football will always be subjective. The problem for the pro-Rashford posters is statistics are all they have at the moment because 70% of his performances stink and perhaps even more damning, his attitude looks off, for whatever reason.

6) I never set out with an agenda to pan Rashford. I have no agenda against any of our players. If I was asked to give my honest opinion on Rashford I would say “average PL inside-forward/winger”. I’m not claiming he’s crap or useless or should be sold. I will consistently question the people who make excuses for him over and over and question why other players aren’t afforded the same luxury? I class Rashford as about as good/on a level with Scott McTominay, but I love Scott McTominay and I bet you can’t find a damning post from me about him. And the reason for that is mainly because I don’t have to hear nonsense on a daily basis about how McTominay is ‘as good as Scholes/Gerrard/Vieira/Keane’ or is a ‘world class talent’. People just accept his limitations and provide a reasonable analysis of his performances. For some reason, that doesn’t seem to be applied to Rashford, who is just wildly over-rated for whatever reason.
Good post and I completely agree.

I think it's excellent to see Rashford's off the field work making a positive difference and I don't personally believe it's had a detrimental affect on his game. But as far as Rashford the footballer is concerned, I do believe he's a good player but I also believe he can be upgraded on. He doesn't have the potential of a Ronaldo or Giggs, who were players who could cause untold damage against a high line or deeper defensive block without assisting or scoring, due to their superior ability in the build up phase compared to Rashford. But that doesn't mean he's a bad player but rather someone who I believe can be upgraded upon which can only benefit the club and us the fans.

For me the game is about the collective and how many chances we create and goals we score over the course of the League season as a team. So if we have a player in the team who enhances the build up phase, which results in us playing a more fluid game both against a higher and deeper defensive line, and also contributes in the defensive phase of the game. We would score more goals as a team over the course of the season imo, whilst playing a more controlled game both offensively and defensively.
 

Lentwood

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This is the part where I point out (again) that the only difference in Rashford and Bruno's end products this season comes from penalties. From open play in the league: Fernandes 8 goals 12 assists, Rashford 11 goals 9 assists.

Oops, time to bring out that eye test again!
Do I even need to point out that they play completely different positions?
 

stw2022

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Good post and I completely agree.

I think it's excellent to see Rashford's off the field work making a positive difference and I don't personally believe it's had a detrimental affect on his game. But as far as Rashford the footballer is concerned, I do believe he's a good player but I also believe he can be upgraded on. He doesn't have the potential of a Ronaldo or Giggs, who were players who could cause untold damage against a high line or deeper defensive block without assisting or scoring, due to their superior ability in the build up phase compared to Rashford. But that doesn't mean he's a bad player but rather someone who I believe can be upgraded upon which can only benefit the club and us the fans.

For me the game is about the collective and how many chances we create and goals we score over the course of the League season as a team. So if we have a player in the team who enhances the build up phase, which results in us playing a more fluid game both against a higher and deeper defensive line, and also contributes in the defensive phase of the game. We would score more goals as a team over the course of the season imo, whilst playing a more controlled game both offensively and defensively.
Agree and I think there's a deliberate misinterpretation when it comes to the language some people use when describing him. I've likely described some of his attributes as 'poor' in this thread, or similar words. I don't think he's a poor footballer but I do think compared to the standards we should be expecting he falls short in many areas.

There are plenty of footballers who I don't think are good enough to play for Manchester United who are decent or good footballers. It's not to say a decent or good footballer can't play for United either. We've had many players over the years who have contributed who weren't the greatest at what they did or anywhere close. Most seemed to be able to compensate by working hard. Again, I'm not saying Rashford doesn't work as hard as the average footballer but he works nowhere near as hard as other limited players in the past who have for us.
 

stw2022

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Do I even need to point out that they play completely different positions?

And honestly I'm not sure if goals from open play is the wisest card to use when defending Rashford either.

Goals from open play in the league

2019/20
Rashford - 11
Martial - 17
Greenwood - 10


And that's the season everyone points to as an example as to why we're all idiots for not rating him.
 

Bebestation

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And honestly I'm not sure if goals from open play is the wisest card to use when defending Rashford either.

Goals from open play in the league

2019/20
Rashford - 11
Martial - 17
Greenwood - 10


And that's the season everyone points to as an example as to why we're all idiots for not rating him.
If I remember right he was in great form and then got injured for 2 months with the back injury.
 

stw2022

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If I remember right he was in great form and then got injured for 2 months with the back injury.

Martial only played 1 more league game than him that season. Yet ironically he's the guy many want to make a scapegoat out of because shitting on a United player is outrageous unless he's French, or something.