England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024

[diarm]

What was English defence in 90s? That was also talented generation with Shearer, Gascoigne, Teddy...
I remember when they destroyed amazing Holland team in 1996

Adams, Southgate, Campbell, Neville, Pearce.

 

[Kag]

Find it baffling that a half fit Maguire, Stones, Coady, Mings, White; and to a lesser extent Godfrey, have been seen as better than Tomori.

Southgate has fecked up here... I think he realises Coady and Mings aren't up for this level and Maguire isnt ready. So is remedying his decision with White in the team.

This is exactly what has happened. He’ll have taken a good look at Mings, in particular, over the past couple of weeks and realised that White is significantly better in all aspects. He’ll have watched him last night and panicked some more.

Gary Neville was laughed at a while back for suggesting that Maguire getting an injury would be more of a blow than Kane being out (in terms of approach and ability to play a back four) and he’s been proven absolutely right.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Adams, Southgate, Campbell, Neville, Pearce.

Oh yes, Pierce. I remember that look when he scored pen vs Spain

 

[sillwuka]

Do people actually watch the pre tournament friendlies?

I don't think I've watched a full friendly since mid 2000s. I'm fully invested in the actual tournaments though!

 

[croadyman]

Personally think we should have left one of Coady/Mings out of this squad but kept White so then we would have had the cover for Maguire/Henderson but still had room to include JWP as well to put in dangerous set pieces later in the games if the team on the field wasn't getting any joy. I really do worry where that threat is going to come from without either of him or TAA.

 

[JebelSherif]

I am from mixed race, white mother and Asian father, I have concerns over this too eventhough I think Gif Lord could have chosen better words here. I kinda feel that this knee thing can not go for long and will become a target for more and more abuse. Maybe the gesture needs to evolve... could be changed a little to give the same message... I just don’t want idiots to find more excuse to boo the players.

I wonder if players discussed how to evolve their gesture after a year has passed...

Apologies to return to the incident at the start of the match, I have only just seen the discussion here today and it really concerns me and I don't think there is a specific thread about it. I actually think it could negate our home-advantage (and put the country in a very bad light) if it continues and that would not be good, with Southgate managing.

I have a suggestion, please hear me out, consider my reasoning & don’t just shout me down:

If the fans keep booing the players just before kickoff and the other team scores early, are England really going to fight with everything they have, to make a come-back? It might be Wayne Rooney in South Africa 2010 all over again: “Nice to see your own fans booing you, you football 'supporters'." That was booing at the end, after a poor performance, this is something else, but my point remains… it must have been bloody weird yesterday that just before kick-off the team was booed, then for the next 90 minutes cheered on, by essentially many of the same people!

So I think Boris Johnson and his government should use the old ‘politics and sport shouldn’t mix’ line and order a ban on taking the knee, at this up-coming tournement.

It wouldn’t be a total surprise - many people think he is racist anyway: the terrible words written when he was a journalist way back, right up to today, backing up the sport secretary’s comment that the the ECB were over the top to ban Ollie Robinson over offensive tweets - heck, even the decision to reduce the foreign aid budget could be further evidence he is a racist.

This is the only way out of this stalemate, that I can see. The FA can’t ask the players to stop doing it, they would immediately say they were backing down in the face of xenophobia and bigotry.

I suppose an announcement could be made before the Croatia game, asking fans not to boo the gesture, but I don’t think that will work & it might just make it louder and even more upsetting for the players and for the fans who just want to cheer on our country, to success.

I have read different comments on here today about this: on the one-hand "racist morons" to "fed up of wokeness" on the other, but really it is a bit more complicated than. On radio and TV commentaries, when the teams take the knee, the commentators always say something like “… the players continue to show solidarity against all forms of discimination in the sport and in wider society…” and if it were just that, there wouldn’t be any problems, in my opinion. But the trouble is, the gesture is inextricably linked to the #BLM movement and for some people that means dodgy political aims, dodgy fundraising & pulling down historic statues. Even the name rubs some people up the wrong way. Now I know ‘Black Lives Matter’ means black people should be treated equally (especially at the hands of the American police force), unfortunately some people don’t get that - they think its suggesting black lives matter more than others - hence the retort: ‘all lives matter’, because why elevate one race above all the others? This is why some fans booed last Sunday and why some will most likely boo again, next Sunday… it's not just as simple as: ‘they are all just knuckle-dragging Millwall types’.

A government ban seems the best way out of this, otherwise people abroad, watching pictures from Wembley next weekend and seeing and hearing a significant number of fans boo a diverse England team, are going to think this is a very strange and rather sad country indeed.

P.S. As regards your point about: "I wonder if players discussed how to evolve their gesture..." well I think that has actually already happened. At the end of the 2019-20 leagues and also when the 2020-21 season began, many players would kneel and also make a raised fist gesture - the so-called 'Black Power' salute that caused controversy years ago, at the 1968 Olympics. I read that was a real problem at one match (Derby vs someone - can't remember whom), around November last year, when limited fans were allowed back into grounds and there was booing - but was it for the kneeling, or the other thing.....? well, who could tell when the gestures were happening simultaneously. However, in mid-December the players and their Union met to discuss whether to continue taking a knee, or not & the decision was to carry-on and I respected that, but I noticed a subtle change - the raised fists seemed to stop. Perhaps something was said at that players/union meeting, in preparation for the return of fans. But that little change hasn't been enough, so now something more radical is required and if the government decrees it, the players cannot feel they have 'lost' the argument, whilst the booing will not cause fan division and national embarrassment, just before the kick-off.

 

[croadyman]

Couldn't remember who was on corners for us at the World Cup and turns out it was Young

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Do people actually watch the pre tournament friendlies?

I don't think I've watched a full friendly since mid 2000s. I'm fully invested in the actual tournaments though!

shouldn’t do. They are background noise as best whilst I do other things. The last pre-tournament/ friendly interest I had was for Le Tournoi and that was 1997. People will remember a certain free kick. Otherwise internationals outside the tournament are pump - even qualifiers.

 

[Lee565]

Personally think we should have left one of Coady/Mings out of this squad but kept White so then we would have had the cover for Maguire/Henderson but still had room to include JWP as well to put in dangerous set pieces later in the games if the team on the field wasn't getting any joy. I really do worry where that threat is going to come from without either of him or TAA.

Agree, mings should have definitely been given the boot out of the squad after the incident he has in the austria game, he's a complete liability and has history of his temperament getting the better of him, you could forgive such a thing with a real talented player but mings is certainly not that.

 

[Tapori]

Tomori being ignored behind Mings and Coady, is quite frankly incomprehensible

 

[AndyMUFC]

There's so many different teams you could pick but I personally think we'll probably go with Foden and Sterling either side of Kane against Croatia as much as Grealish has been impressing. Think you do need a bit of pace in there, especially with how deep Kane comes at times. Doesn't mean it'll stay that way every match but reckon that's how we'll start.

 

[croadyman]

Agree, mings should have definitely been given the boot out of the squad after the incident he has in the austria game, he's a complete liability and has history of his temperament getting the better of him, you could forgive such a thing with a real talented player but mings is certainly not that.

Remember the Zlatan stuff when he was at Bournemouth

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Doubt Southgate knows his strongest side going into our first game against Croatia. 433, 4231, and 343 are all formations he's experimented with, so it really could be any of those.

With him wanting to keep it tight in the first game, and us not looking defensively great with a back four, then I'd imagine Southgate will probably go with three at the back, but who knows?

343

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings
James Henderson Rice Chilwell
Mount Kane Grealish

433

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings Shaw
Henderson Rice Mount
Sterling Kane Grealish

4231

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings Shaw
Henderson Rice
Sterling Mount Grealish
Kane

This is what I predict Southgate will do, not me!

 

[saivet]

Doubt Southgate knows his strongest side going into our first game against Croatia. 433, 4231, and 343 are all formations he's experimented with, so it really could be any of those.

With him wanting to keep it tight in the first game, and us not looking defensively great with a back four, then I'd imagine Southgate will probably go with three at the back, but who knows?

343

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings
James Henderson Rice Chilwell
Mount Kane Grealish

433

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings Shaw
Henderson Rice Mount
Sterling Kane Grealish

4231

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings Shaw
Henderson Rice
Sterling Mount Grealish
Kane

This is what I predict Southgate will do, not me!

I think he will go with that but with Phillips in for Henderson against Croatia. Not sure he will start Henderson so soon.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I think he will go with that but with Phillips in for Henderson against Croatia. Not sure he will start Henderson so soon.

Yes, you're probably right. Although it's clear to see Phillips isn't really an 8, which begs the question as to why JWP wasn't selected.

 

[Stack]

So I think Boris Johnson and his government should use the old ‘politics and sport shouldn’t mix’ line and order a ban on taking the knee, at this up-coming tournement.

This is an old argument that I think is sadly naive. Back in the early 80s NZ had a massive social upheaval over a rugby tour from South Africa which had Apartheid still in place. NZ were sadly one of the last countries left still playing sport with South Africa and there were huge protests all across the country about the rugby tour. The Govt line was keep politics out of sport. It was a lazy and easy way to hide from the issue. Sport and Politics have been intertwined since forever and at times its been an important driver for good social change. Also govts banning sports organisations from making social statements is a slippery slope, the sort of thing Oppressive govts do and certainly not something one would hope to see from a democratic and free country. The booing is deplorable but its also creating conversations and debate which in the long run will be another small assistance to improving things. This is one of those situations where sports and politics can drive improvement and change.

 

[JebelSherif]

Doubt Southgate knows his strongest side going into our first game against Croatia. 433, 4231, and 343 are all formations he's experimented with, so it really could be any of those.

With him wanting to keep it tight in the first game, and us not looking defensively great with a back four, then I'd imagine Southgate will probably go with three at the back, but who knows?

343

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings
James Henderson Rice Chilwell
Mount Kane Grealish

433

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings Shaw
Henderson Rice Mount
Sterling Kane Grealish

4231

Pickford
Walker Stones Mings Shaw
Henderson Rice
Sterling Mount Grealish
Kane

This is what I predict Southgate will do, not me!

These ideas all look good except for one player: Henderson.

How many times have we taken injured players/injury prone players to big tournements and it has come back to bite us.... well I can remember right back to Brian Robson, through Beckham and Rooney of course. It never works out well. Actually 1982 also - Kevin Keegan.

Stick Foden in your predictions (for Henderson) and I think we might really start off well, imagine Mount and Foden running at a nearly 36 yrs old Luka Modric. It could be revenge for 2018 and all....

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

These ideas all look good except for one player: Henderson.

How many times have we taken injured players/injury prone players to big tournements and it has come back to bite us.... well I can remember right back to Brian Robson, through Beckham and Rooney of course. It never works out well. Actually 1982 also - Kevin Keegan.

Stick Foden in your predictions (for Henderson) and I think we might really start off well, imagine Mount and Foden running at a nearly 36 yrs old Luka Modric. It could be revenge for 2018 and all....

Looks good on paper, but Southgate would never do that. As I said, this is what I think Southgate would do, not me.

Actually, even Pep, who used to play with De Bruyne and Silva above a single pivot has reverted to a more defence-minded set up with Gundogan or Fernandinho often partnering Rodri.

Actually, he decided to experiment for the first time in a while in the CL final and it clearly didn't work.

As @saivet, it will probably be Phillips, as Southgate has used a pivot of Phillips and Rice quite often during friendlies but as I said, that isn't the most balanced midfield, in my opinion and we'd have been much better off having JWP coming in for Henderson, as they are similar types of players.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

These ideas all look good except for one player: Henderson.

How many times have we taken injured players/injury prone players to big tournements and it has come back to bite us.... well I can remember right back to Brian Robson, through Beckham and Rooney of course. It never works out well. Actually 1982 also - Kevin Keegan.

Stick Foden in your predictions (for Henderson) and I think we might really start off well, imagine Mount and Foden running at a nearly 36 yrs old Luka Modric. It could be revenge for 2018 and all....

a couple of differences ref the injured players.

firstly, those players were consisted to be our best and most important players. It would be akin to taking Kane injured out of this squad.

secondly, we have a squad of 26, so it’s far less important that we have a couple of players who are coming back from injury.

 

[diarm]

Or maybe they've had enough of woke shit?

edit: Wow really? an infraction? why not ban me again while you're at it?
what a cesspool this forum has become

Wowser.

You know the way they say never meet your heroes?

 

[izec]

Personally think we should have left one of Coady/Mings out of this squad but kept White so then we would have had the cover for Maguire/Henderson but still had room to include JWP as well to put in dangerous set pieces later in the games if the team on the field wasn't getting any joy. I really do worry where that threat is going to come from without either of him or TAA.

Should have been Tomori and White over Coady and Mings, with JWP replacing TAA. Gareth is just stupid at this point.

 

[DixieDean]

As always, I'm not optimistic for England at this tournament. That's mainly to do with the coach, although we do have extremely average CB's.

It's been a long time since I've seen them play well, and Southgate doesn't even know his best team. For me, Grealish is a must starter, however I suspect Southgate will bring him on at half time in the opening game after he realises his mistake.

 

[SATA]

Grealish-Kane-Sterling

Mount

Should be England’s front 4 for the opening game

 

[The Oracle]

A lot of people not convinced England will go far in the tournament after only beating Romania by a goal to nil.

What a lot of of people don't know is that the last win against Romania was 51 years ago.

 

[croadyman]

Yes, you're probably right. Although it's clear to see Phillips isn't really an 8, which begs the question as to why JWP wasn't selected.

Totally cannot understand not having anyone who can provide quality from set-pieces but nothing we can do unfortunately

 

[croadyman]

Should have been Tomori and White over Coady and Mings, with JWP replacing TAA. Gareth is just stupid at this point.

Yeah how Tomori who has been class in a league that produces the best defenders has been overlooked is utterly baffling

 

[One Night Only]

Yeah how Tomori who has been class in a league that produces the best defenders has been overlooked is utterly baffling

It isn't really that baffling. We are managed by a moron who just watches English footy and goes on media hyperbole and love ins for bang average players.

 

[Dante]

With the amount of ability England have in their front 4 and the lack of quality in the backline, I'd be tempted to set up ultra-defensively.

Play on the counter. Make us difficult to beat. Keep a deep defensive line. And give the opposition something to worry about whenever they lose possession and we can actually hurt them.

It wouldn't be pretty, but it's the most pragmatic thing Southgate can do. It's arguably the best (maybe even the only) chance he has of winning the competition.

 

[Yagami]

As always, I'm not optimistic for England at this tournament. That's mainly to do with the coach, although we do have extremely average CB's.

It's been a long time since I've seen them play well, and Southgate doesn't even know his best team. For me, Grealish is a must starter, however I suspect Southgate will bring him on at half time in the opening game after he realises his mistake.

That's what I'm expecting, too. Though probably around the 70 min mark instead of at half time.

 

[sglowrider]

Tweet

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[Varun]

A lot of people not convinced England will go far in the tournament after only beating Romania by a goal to nil.

What a lot of of people don't know is that the last win against Romania was 51 years ago.

How many times have they played each other since

 

[The Oracle]

How many times have they played each other since

Before the 1-0 win the other night, it had been 7 games and 51 years since their last win against Romania.

The 7 meetings consisted of 4 draws and 3 defeats.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Shouldn’t the title of the thread be changed.

it’s Euro 2020 not Euro 2021

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Personally I don't see the warm up games as relevant. They were reserve sides that actually snuck two victories.

The question for me is if Southgate has bodged the warm-up by over resting the CL final players and not giving the side that will play in the tournament a chance to play together before it. Germany pumped Latvia, a side ranked in between Myanmar and Tanzania in the FIFA rankings, 7-1 with a close to full strength side. On the surface it may seem a pointless excercise but perhaps the confidence from an easy victory like that will give their player a better psychological edge going into the tournament.

 

[Varun]

Before the 1-0 win the other night, it had been 7 games and 51 years since their last win against Romania.

The 7 meetings consisted of 4 draws and 3 defeats.

Damn, 7 games without a win is quite something

 

[SuperiorXI]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

What a twat he is! Put that in a spoiler next time you've ruined my day.

 

[Samid]

Shouldn’t the title of the thread be changed.

it’s Euro 2020 not Euro 2021

Who won?

 

[The Purley King]

Grealish-Kane-Sterling

Mount

Should be England’s front 4 for the opening game

Sterling has been wank for England since forever. No way he should be starting imo.
Grealish has to start and he is best from the left, so I think RW has to be Sancho, even though he has never done anything for England either at least he's more of a winger than Sterling. Stick Rice or Bellingham next to Mount + a back 5 and I'd be OK with that.

 

[romufc]

England have a problem. Sterling, Foden, Mount, Chilwel, Walker, James, Stones would have all had 2 weeks off with no game time.

I am quite sceptical on their fitness given they got no game time at all. I can see Southgate starting Walker, Mount, Foden and we will be leggy.

I know he wanted them to rest but Germany gave Werner 45 mins to get up to speed.

 

[Swiss_Red89]

On a positive note for England: Croatia has no clue how England will line up for this game. Not even the system is obvious, even less the players. Not easy to prepare this game for them.