BVB (Bottlespielverein Borussia Dortmund) watch | You love to see it

bludsucker

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But I do admit I was wrong. I didn't expect them to go down one cent, not even regarding the conditions but apparently they felt more pressure that Sancho might leave for a free in 2023 than I thought they would. Anyway, if you really believe they'd settle for a €85m fee without any bonuses, I find that pretty naive and there is little to no chance this is true. We've had a very similar discussion when the Havertz deal was confirmed in here and it's now more or less secure the deal will reach a total volume of ~€100m. Unless you believe that Dortmund suddenly changed their mind and switched from insisting on bonuses that see the fixed fee grow from €90m to €95m to accepting only €85m without any additional payments within days.
The deal according to the article which you quoted from the athletic also mentions that multiple sources say that there are no addons. Also the figures seem to be confirmed by the ad hoc statement issued by Dortmund.

According to the statement United will pay €85m fixed fee which works out to £72.9m. Sancho was bought for £8m so the pft comes down to £64.9. Also city and watford are due a solidarity payment which totals to £1.6m. Subtracting that will give you a figure of £63.3m. Then comes the payment due to city because of the sell on clause in the initial contract which according to all sources comes to £9.75m. Subtracting this gives Dortmund a figure of £53.55m. Converting this into euro gives us a figure of €62.41m. I suspect the difference in the pft reported by Dortmund(€56m) is the basic amount due to the player for his remaining contract and also Dortmund’s part of the agent fee.

So yeah I think Dortmund were counting on sancho having a stormer at the Euros and them getting some competition going for him so they could get a bigger fee for him. But once they realized this wasn’t going to happen they caved.
 
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Zehner

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The deal according to the article which you quoted from the athletic also mentions that multiple sources say that there are no addons. Also the figures seem to be confirmed by the ad hoc statement issued by Dortmund.

According to the statement United will pay €85m fixed fee which works out to £72.9m. Sancho was bought for £8m so the pft comes down to £64.9. Also city and watford are due a solidarity payment which totals to £1.6m. Subtracting that will give you a figure of £63.3m. Then comes the payment due to city because of the sell on clause in the initial contract which according to all sources comes to £9.75m. Subtracting this gives Dortmund a figure of £53.55m. Converting this into euro gives us a figure of €62.41m. I suspect the difference in the pft reported by Dortmund(€56m) is the basic amount due to the player for his remaining contract and also Dortmund’s part of the agent fee.

So yeah I think Dortmund were counting on sancho having a stormer at the Euros and them getting some competition going for him so they could get a bigger fee for him. But once they realized this wasn’t going to happen they caved.
Very good break down, that has me thinking. The 9.75m pound also roughly equals 15% of the 64.9m pound you gave. Those numbers definitely align - so it seems highly that the €85m include the City fee.
 

NoLogo

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True. But I don't think any one can deny we have been a terribly run club.
But we are run like shit....
I'm not saying we aren't, I'm just saying there are people on here who get angry if you mention it and show examples of how a well run club even with much less finances should could look like. I'm also not saying everything they touch turns to gold, I think Watzke has done a lot of mistakes over the last 5-6 years and he is actually in the douche bag level just barely below Hoeneß for me these days.
 

NoLogo

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You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.
Very good post and I tried to argue the same on here several times but you ain't convincing those who just wanna feel like they got one over your club.

Dortmund aren't happy to have to sell their best players and they don't train them with the purpose to sell them big, it's just I mean you can't buy the ready-made stars of the footballing world like we can, so you have to find a different way to get good footballers and the next best way for you is to buy some of the biggest talents out there and hope they'll become excellent for you and maybe if you continue doing good work one day you will also be able to keep those players from joining the big boys.

You aren't at that point yet but why there are some people on here who almost act like you are committing a crime by trying to hold on to your best players or at least get the very best deal possible, so you might one day maybe close the gap, is beyond me. I'm just happy you got a good deal for your player and we got the player we want and that's it as far as I'm concerned. So I'm really not sure why there is still all this bad blood here against your club.
 

Dave Smith

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Very good post and I tried to argue the same on here several times but you ain't convincing those who just wanna feel like they got one over your club.

Dortmund aren't happy to have to sell their best players and they don't train them with the purpose to sell them big, it's just I mean you can't buy the ready-made stars of the footballing world like we can, so you have to find a different way to get good footballers and the next best way for you is to buy some of the biggest talents out there and hope they'll become excellent for you and maybe if you continue doing good work one day you will also be able to keep those players from joining the big boys.

You aren't at that point yet but why there are some people on here who almost act like you are committing a crime by trying to hold on to your best players or at least get the very best deal possible, so you might one day maybe close the gap, is beyond me. I'm just happy you got a good deal for your player and we got the player we want and that's it as far as I'm concerned. So I'm really not sure why there is still all this bad blood here against your club.
Because the muppets were close to suicide last season when Sancho didn't arrive as they had convinced their muppet hearts that he would be a Utd player for 20/21?
 

alexthelion

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Spectacularly wrong?



So apparently, the total fee will be somewhere between €95m and €100m and United indeed isn't "flush with cash" so it wasn't unreasonable to question if you could pay so much. I also wasn't overly confident and always claimed I could be wrong. In fact, the quoted posts are 6 or 7 weeks old and I've posted numerous times that I believe the transfer will go through when the first reports about United's improved bids emerged.

The amount of tribalism in this thread is really cringeworthy. You guys don't even care whether you're right or wrong, it's just you against somebody you perceive as an enemy for whatever reasons.
Am I missing something here? Wasn't it announced by Dortmund the fee is €85m flat, with no add ons?
 

Mindhunter

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There have been enough transfers through release clauses. The gentlemen's agreement was a lite version of a release clause. And the price tag isn't really aggressive considering Havertz went for €80m + €20m in the same window despite being a lesser talent. One might even argue that €120m is a bargain in comparison to Joao Felix or Ousmane Dembele. Dortmund (IMO rightfully) see Sancho in the Mbappe mould and he moved for €180m.
They why did they suddenly show flexibility this year? They should have stuck to their guns and demanded 95m as was their initial price this summer. Again, I am not disagreeing with you. I agree that Dortmund were well within their rights to play hardball and the price they demanded wasn’t insane last year. It’s just that Bundesliga fans last year were like “you know the price and you know the deadline so either pay up or shut up because Dortmund aren’t going to budge” etc. That stance just looks disingenuous when the very next year the club showed flexibility and sold for a lower price than their initial demand.
 

Mindhunter

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You are right, I don´t, because I don´t consider a quasi release clause a power move by the club over the player, but rather giving agency away under certain circumstances. You can call the deadline abritrary all you want, from Dortmunds side that date made perfect sense (start of the pre season). Furthermore deadlines are the absolute norm when it comes to nonmandatory agreements be it in vocal (like this gentlemens agreement) or written form (a proper release clause). It is the one line of protection the clubs have from losing vital players too late to get a proper replacement.

The entire second paragraph is speculation and the only thing I can really put up against that is that the gentlemen agreement between Sancho and Dortmund has been confirmed by head officials several times now and has been pointed at by pretty much any reliable reporter as the driving force of the saga. Moral high ground has nothing to with this, just two parties eventually holding up their end of a bargain, which is why Jadon Sancho will be fondly remembered by the supporter base and club and Sancho will look back to his four years at Dortmund with a lot of satification and probably never utter a single negative word about the club or his time there. That relationship was a major success story and Manchester United will now reap benefits from that. Why not just be happy to have gotten such an amazing player? I don´t get it.



Well done on putting a +1 on your post count while contributing something worthwhile to the topic :)

Jesus fecking christ....
You are right, it doesn’t matter now. It’s just that both years Dortmund came up with an initial asking price and last year they didn’t show any flexibility but this year they did. That behaviour is inconsistent with what Bundesliga fans were claiming last year that Dortmund will set the terms of the transfer and the buying club has no power - either pay up or move on. Isn’t it surprising that the hard stance they took just reversed itself completely in a year?
 

Hansi Fick

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Am I missing something here? Wasn't it announced by Dortmund the fee is €85m flat, with no add ons?
It wasn't. They announced an imminent deal with a 85m € fixed fee to the stock market. Of course there will be still addons on top of that.
 

gajender

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It wasn't. They announced an imminent deal with a 85m € fixed fee to the stock market. Of course there will be still addons on top of that.
They did mention extent of Addons while making announcement for Dembele so it's would be quite strange for them not to mention it for Sancho if there are any it would be quite an oversight.
 

Hansi Fick

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They did mention extent of Addons while making announcement for Dembele so it's would be quite strange for them not to mention it for Sancho if there are any it would be quite an oversight.
I have no idea what was said with Dembélé. But it wouldn't be an oversight as it's not an announcement of the transfer, just that a transfer is imminent.

The fee will be 85m € fixed rising to 95m € with addons.

As expected.
 

devips

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I have no idea what was said with Dembélé. But it wouldn't be an oversight as it's not an announcement of the transfer, just that a transfer is imminent.

The fee will be 85m € fixed rising to 95m € with addons.

As expected.
No. There are no add-ons. Everyone involved is clear about this.
 

ivaldo

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Wait, so last year's WUMs are now upset because they're getting wummed? The BDL are a fragile bunch.
 

hellhunter

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I have no idea what was said with Dembélé. But it wouldn't be an oversight as it's not an announcement of the transfer, just that a transfer is imminent.

The fee will be 85m € fixed rising to 95m € with addons.

As expected.
Not according to Dortmund.
 

IncyWincySpider

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The only add-on is ten million euro every time Sancho starts a game for England. Fortunately Ole Gunner Southgate has cottoned into this and will keep him on the bench to reserve funds for the Varane purchase.
 

roonster09

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It wasn't. They announced an imminent deal with a 85m € fixed fee to the stock market. Of course there will be still addons on top of that.
Why would there be add ons when Dortmund clearly communicated the total fee is 85 million. In the same announcement for Dembele they clearly mentioned all possible add-ons.

Not sure why anyone would assume Dortmund haven't communicated full fee.
 

dinostar77

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Why do people hate on Dortmund? Based on their finances and general circumstances they strike me as an incredibly well-run club. They also tend to play attractive football and have a knack for finding and getting top talent.
Personally i like Dortmund, good club. On here is probably because they wouldnt sell Sancho to us last year and beat us to Haaland and Bellingham.
 

dinostar77

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Why would there be add ons when Dortmund clearly communicated the total fee is 85 million. In the same announcement for Dembele they clearly mentioned all possible add-ons.

Not sure why anyone would assume Dortmund haven't communicated full fee.
There are no addons, both german and british press reported that. For once all in agreement.
 

roonster09

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There are no addons, both german and british press reported that. For once all in agreement.
Yeah I don't know why few don't want to believe that. It's reported by Dortmund, Ducker, BBC.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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You know what? I bite. Show me the posts declaring Borussia Dortmund as such, preferably without posts that are obvious wind ups, because if we start scraping the barrel that hard, I only need to look at the few gems that the European Super League thread has brought up to paint Manchester United as some of the worst scum of professional football.

So yes, Borussia Dortmund is a selling club or feeder club if you want to sound even more smug. The thing that I love the most about the usuage of this as an insult is that it really shows in what kind of bubble some United supporter live. Being a selling club is not a point of shame, it is the reality of more than 95% of the professional football clubs. Literally every club below the absolute elite is a selling club, because they will have to let go of their best players under certain circumstances as

a) they can´t match the wages and reputation of the clubs above them (thats the category Dortmund belongs to)

b) needs transfer income to balance the books and keep the club running (not the case for Dortmund)

c) uses transfer income to line the pockets of the owners (see b))

d) all of the above or a mixture of them

Professional football is one giant foodchain where the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Borussia Dortmund actually worked their way pretty far up that chain directly below the super elite. They sign the top players of smaller clubs all the time as they could be doing to PSV Eindhoven when they look at Malen as Sanchos replacement. This is just how this Sport works now.


In the same vain, I laugh every time when the accusation is leveled at Dortmund that they sign top level talents, develop them and then let go of them a couple years later as if this was somehow a dishonorable act. Yes, they do that, quite successfuly I might add. It is quite frankly one of the only ways they can compete with richer teams at least on short terms until they have to rebuild again. They can´t possibly target the Haalands, Sanchos and Bellinghams of the world once they have actually really taken off because they would be financially unobtainable by then. Have people no understanding how hard it is for clubs to actually inch towards the elite without the financial doping provided by investors, oligarchs or entire nations or the willingness to drown in debt? If you don´t go for potential, you simply settle for players with lower performance ceilings that are less likely to be poached away as they don´t really interest the elite. Then you challenge for nothing.
Even though you are stating simple and obvious facts, this still a quality post.
 

diarm

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Yeah I don't know why few don't want to believe that. It's reported by Dortmund, Ducker, BBC.
We know exactly why they don't want to believe it. In much the same way as we knew what they were doing when they were in here playing billy big balls on the wum, and then again when they were crying foul about how mean and intolerant the caf is when they were called out for their wumming.

I've nothing against Dortmund or the Bundesliga, but there were a few heads in here who let themselves down last summer and up until very recently. There's no point in acting like it doesn't feel good to watch them squirm now with egg on their face.

You might even go so far as to say you love to see it.
 

Berbasbullet

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What are these made up ad ons then? Hope there's some inventive ones.
I find it a little bizarre that some posters won’t admit that they simply don’t exist. Either way it’s a great deal for both parties.
 
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hellhunter

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A bit laughable to turn a blind eye to the sole solid fact there is at this moment, Dortmunds info to the shareholders. All just to not look like mugs with their claim that Dortmund won't negotiate on the fee.
 

pratyush_utd

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I have no idea what was said with Dembélé. But it wouldn't be an oversight as it's not an announcement of the transfer, just that a transfer is imminent.

The fee will be 85m € fixed rising to 95m € with addons.

As expected.
Not according to Dortmund official statement. Not sure where you are getting your figure. Everyone is quoting 85m euros without any add-on.
 

TheReligion

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I find it a little bizarre that some posters won’t admit that they simply don’t exist. Either way it’s a great deal.
I can only assume it's wumming given every English and German outlet have said the same figures and deal structure. Even Dortmund have announced the fixed fee publicly.

£72.9m fixed fee spread over 5 years.

It's a cracking deal for United.
 

roonster09

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We know exactly why they don't want to believe it. In much the same way as we knew what they were doing when they were in here playing billy big balls on the wum, and then again when they were crying foul about how mean and intolerant the caf is when they were called out for their wumming.

I've nothing against Dortmund or the Bundesliga, but there were a few heads in here who let themselves down last summer and up until very recently. There's no point in acting like it doesn't feel good to watch them squirm now with egg on their face.

You might even go so far as to say you love to see it.
Also I find it hilarious that few think only reason why Dortmund gets shit is for not selling Sancho last season when they were getting lot of shit before that too for their lack of class when they reported transfers in their official site, taking digs at buying club when we signed Mkhi.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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The deal according to the article which you quoted from the athletic also mentions that multiple sources say that there are no addons. Also the figures seem to be confirmed by the ad hoc statement issued by Dortmund.

According to the statement United will pay €85m fixed fee which works out to £72.9m. Sancho was bought for £8m so the pft comes down to £64.9. Also city and watford are due a solidarity payment which totals to £1.6m. Subtracting that will give you a figure of £63.3m. Then comes the payment due to city because of the sell on clause in the initial contract which according to all sources comes to £9.75m. Subtracting this gives Dortmund a figure of £53.55m. Converting this into euro gives us a figure of €62.41m. I suspect the difference in the pft reported by Dortmund(€56m) is the basic amount due to the player for his remaining contract and also Dortmund’s part of the agent fee.

So yeah I think Dortmund were counting on sancho having a stormer at the Euros and them getting some competition going for him so they could get a bigger fee for him. But once they realized this wasn’t going to happen they caved.
This is wrong, the solidarity payments due to City & Watford will be paid by United separately, Dortmund will pay the sell-on fee owed to City from the fee they received.
 

Berbasbullet

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I can only assume it's wumming given every English and German outlet have said the same figures and deal structure. Even Dortmund have announced the fixed fee publicly.

£72.9m fixed fee spread over 5 years.

It's a cracking deal for United.
It’s also a good deal for Dortmund to get 73 mil in a pandemic for an unhappy player with 2 years left on his deal. I don’t understand why people have to invent terms that might not/probably don’t exist (happy to be corrected if there is evidence to the contrary, I just don’t think you get a better source than Dortmund themselves). Ultimately a deal between two parties isn’t about one screwing the other it’s about both parties getting what they want, and they have.
 

diarm

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I realize this is of great importance to the Utd fanbase. So let's just wait and see until the transfer is announced.
Great importance = repeating the deal reported by the majority of journalists as well as the officially released shareholder information provided by the selling club.
Smug indifference = inventing add ons because you were over arrogant in your original insistence that there would be, and then over arrogantly continuing to insist you're right.

There may end up being add ons that they for some reason omitted to inform the shareholders about in the ad hoc release. But that would be a strange omission and you certainly can't be so certain that there is, in the face of most evidence suggesting there isn't, to warrant such arrogance.

It's that tone of posting, both now and last summer, which rubbed people up the wrong way.
 

Hansi Fick

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Not according to Dortmund official statement. Not sure where you are getting your figure. Everyone is quoting 85m euros without any add-on.
The ad-hoc statement that BVB put out doesn't say anything about addons either way, and why would it.
I'm refering to the accompanying reports of the two major German outlets both saying 85m€ rising to a potential 95m€.

https://www.kicker.de/wir-freuen-un...elbar-vor-wechsel-zu-manunited-808712/artikel
https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...hsel-zu-manunited-perfekt-76938924.sport.html

Obviously, you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, if it makes you feel better. It's a fantastic transfer either way.
 

El Jefe

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Dortmund was basically the second club of the caf not too long ago. Now their fans can't seem to stand us and our fans have been rubbed the wrong way from their management, fans and even all the way down to their social media team.

I don't really give a shit about all that though. I'm always excited to watch them because when all hope seems lost after selling a major player they always seem to unearth another gem and keep playing fast attractive football.
 

Berbasbullet

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The ad-hoc statement that BVB put out doesn't say anything about addons either way, and why would it.
I'm refering to the accompanying reports of the two major German outlets both saying 85m€ rising to a potential 95m€.

https://www.kicker.de/wir-freuen-un...elbar-vor-wechsel-zu-manunited-808712/artikel
https://sportbild.bild.de/bundeslig...hsel-zu-manunited-perfekt-76938924.sport.html

Obviously, you're entitled to believe what you want to believe, if it makes you feel better. It's a fantastic transfer either way.
Why wouldn’t it mention it? Isn’t it a report to the shareholders(not sure what the report is to be honest, maybe you can clarify)? Surely you share as much good news as possible?
 

Hansi Fick

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Why wouldn’t it mention it? Isn’t it a report to the shareholders(not sure what the report is to be honest, maybe you can clarify)? Surely you share as much good news as possible?
I don't know and frankly I don't care. Probably you share what is certain already, and you don't share what's not. Because that's what this kind of statement is about. It's not a PR brief, but a legal minimum requirement.
 

Pickle85

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I don't know and frankly I don't care. Probably you share what is certain already, and you don't share what's not. Because that's what this kind of statement is about. It's not a PR brief, but a legal minimum requirement.
Yeah but surely if add-ons were agreed, even if the terms for them haven't been met, they'd be disclosed to shareholders? It's in th club's interest to make the transfer terms look as favourable as possible to shareholders after all, no?