Are we a CDM short of being an elite team?

[Stacks]

I believe Solskjaer and the coaching team do want a midfielder. It might not be the only weakness in the side but it's the biggest obstacle from turning this side from a 'good' side to a winning one.

It may well be that the coaching is deemed not good enough and the manager loses his job. We'll have to wait and see on that, but we've seen steady progression in the last 3 years. With that being the case I would've liked to see the board give the manager all the tools to go and finish the job, especially when we're so close, and it's disappointing that we're going into the season short of a key component.

He has had the money but chose to spend on other areas. He has invested close to 400m so clearly it wasn't top of our agenda. We spent £35.10m on Van der beek, £19.17m on Amad, £7.65m on Pellistri, none are due to play much this season or last. Was there not an option to sign a DMC? YES but the transfer team opted for other positions including young players who wont even play any time soon. Every team has set resources and its up to the team to decide how to allocate them.

 

[Stacks]

Liverpool's midfield were excellent and suited the way their team played perfectly.

But the key point (I think) is that if you'd asked people a few years ago whether those midfielders would be good enough to lead Liverpool to PL and CLs the answer would be a resounding no.

That midfield ended up being excellent because the team was built and coached such that it played to their strengths and compensated for their weaknesses. Not because they suddenly became outstanding players.

In a different but related point, last season City were struggling for goals. So they adjusted tactically so that Gundogan (a DM who had scored 2 PL goals the previous season) became became more of a goal threat and, sure enough, he was their top goalscorer as they won the league.

Or you could look back at our last PL win. I clearly remember posters here saying at the start of that season that our midfield wasn't good enough for us to win the league. Yet we still managed it, even while a nothing player like Tom Cleverley started in half our PL games.

The point being that all teams have flaws and some have quite severe ones. But if you have high level management and coaching then you can adjust, compensate for and overcome those limitations. Elite sides don't go into every season thinking they have nowhere to improve.

thats obvious. James Milner played more games than Fabinho in 2019. The problem is our current back room is not top level so we need an all star team selection to compensate.

 

[JerseyDevil]

One word. Kante.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Liverpool's midfield were excellent and suited the way their team played perfectly.

But the key point (I think) is that if you'd asked people a few years ago whether those midfielders would be good enough to lead Liverpool to PL and CLs the answer would be a resounding no.

That midfield ended up being excellent because the team was built and coached such that it played to their strengths and compensated for their weaknesses. Not because they suddenly became outstanding players.

In a different but related point, last season City were struggling for goals. So they adjusted tactically so that Gundogan (a DM who had scored 2 PL goals the previous season) became became more of a goal threat and, sure enough, he was their top goalscorer as they won the league.

Or you could look back at our last PL win. I clearly remember posters here saying at the start of that season that our midfield wasn't good enough for us to win the league. Yet we still managed it, even while a nothing player like Tom Cleverley started in half our PL games.

The point being that all teams have flaws and some have quite severe ones. But if you have high level management and coaching then you can adjust, compensate for and overcome those limitations. Elite sides don't go into every season thinking they have nowhere to improve.

Pretty much nailed it. People will always find flaws in our side in order to use it as a stick to beat the team with and defend the manager and coaching staff. If we addressed the midfield today they'd probably just start saying DDG isn't good enough anymore or we need a better right back than AWB. Almost every side has issues, many of SAFs best sides did too, and managers will find a way to work around it.

Plus, regardless of how perfect your team is, injuries can always happen in key areas that can suddenly weaken your side big time and you need to adjust. Managers need to compensate for weaknesses constantly without the excuse always being to just go and spend 100m on a worldie

 

[Bebestation]

Is there anyone in our u23's/reserves who could step up to play in a double pivot? Not players that have gone on loan like Garner.

 

[Stacks]

Pretty much nailed it. People will always find flaws in our side in order to use it as a stick to beat the team with and defend the manager and coaching staff. If we addressed the midfield today they'd probably just start saying DDG isn't good enough anymore or we need a better right back than AWB. Almost every side has issues, many of SAFs best sides did too, and managers will find a way to work around it.

Plus, regardless of how perfect your team is, injuries can always happen in key areas that can suddenly weaken your side big time and you need to adjust. Managers need to compensate for weaknesses constantly without the excuse always being to just go and spend 100m on a worldie

Literally took my thoughts out of my head.

We never focus on what we have, always constantly on what we don't have.

 

[Stacks]

Is there anyone in our u23's/reserves who could step up to play in a double pivot? Not players that have gone on loan like Garner.

try and covert lindelof? I mean Pep taught Lahm to do so. SAF played Jones and O shea (both CBs) in midfield. Jose played Pepe there. Barcelona converted Mascherano into a CB. Its something top coaches do all the time.

EDIT: when Lindelof first signed he had an interview with manutd.com

You’ve been described as versatile – you’ve played right-back. Can you play defensive midfield or do you see yourself as only a centre-back?
My position is a centre-back but, like you said, I was playing right-back before and started my footballing career as a midfielder. But I see myself as a central defender. I feel most comfortable there.

 

[sullydnl]

Also worth noting that as it stands City have failed to sign the striker they badly need and Chelsea may miss out on both the CB and CM they were after too. It's not like they're completed masterpieces of squad building either.

 

[Red Royal]

Shockimg that we haven't beefed up our midfield options.

I wonder if there is anyone at the club who could cover that position IF either of McFred are unavailable (they are fine as a pairimg)
Matic might be able to play a game every month?
Pogba is the most likely, on his day world class, but will struggle against bigger teams.
Jones - could do a job if he stayed fit.
Others have mentioned Lindelov (I dont think he has ever played there)
VDB - surely gets his chance this year
Lingard - has he the willingness to change his game?
Garner - wishing we could have kept him now
Bruno...do we rusk moving him back, we would have other options for numbers 10 (Martial, Lingard, Mata)
Are any kids coming through?
Is there anyone else we think could convert to a midfielder in an emergency....if not we seem to be very light in backups to McFred.

 

[CM]

He has had the money but chose to spend on other areas. He has invested close to 400m so clearly it wasn't top of our agenda. We spent £35.10m on Van der beek, £19.17m on Amad, £7.65m on Pellistri, none are due to play much this season or last. Was there not an option to sign a DMC? YES but the transfer team opted for other positions including young players who wont even play any time soon. Every team has set resources and its up to the team to decide how to allocate them.

Amad and Pellistri are clearly signings with the future in mind. Also made when we couldn't get Sancho over the line last season.

The van de Beek signing looks a mistake, yes. I'm baffled by the situation there and would happily offload him if it meant we could get a proper midfielder in.

 

[lex talionis]

A squad that has one hole in its can still be “elite”. However one defines elite, United right now are certainly right there.

But can we compensate for the hole and beat the very best sides in Europe? We shall find out…or, better yet, fill the hole in the next few hours.

 

[Stacks]

Amad and Pellistri are clearly signings with the future in mind. Also made when we couldn't get Sancho over the line last season.

The van de Beek signing looks a mistake, yes. I'm baffled by the situation there and would happily offload him if it meant we could get a proper midfielder in.

But neither played much last season and why are we spending significant sums on the future when we have present issues to solve? It just shows what is a priority because for me players for the future are more a luxury once you have filled your first team gaps but what do I know

Same about Donny. I know neither he nor Lingard will feature much but will just remain and take a wage

 

[Stacks]

Also worth noting that as it stands City have failed to sign the striker they badly need and Chelsea may miss out on both the CB and CM they were after too. It's not like they're completed masterpieces of squad building either.

for other teams our fans ignore their gaps and pretend they have perfect super teams

 

[Lynty]

Already an elite squad. Should be challenging for everything.

 

[sp_107]

If we play 4-4-2 who can be the 2 in the centre midfield ?

----------------------Ronaldo ----------------Cavani--------------------

---Rashford --------X------------------X----------------Sancho----

---Shaw-----------Maguire------------Varane---------------AWB---------


We have 7 midfielders in Mata/DVB/Bruno/Pogba/Fred/McTominay/Matic but none of them are suitable to play in 2 man Centre Midfield

 

[ghagua]

This is absurd. We are stacked in almost every position with world class players. If this isn't an elite team, then I don't know what is. Not every team can be Zidane's Madrid or Pep's Barcelona. This team should be fully capable of challenging for the title, easily, if I might add. Anything else is delusion. It's not like City or Liverpool didn't have weak positions when they won the title.

Agree with this. They also need coaching in a proper system and game management. You can't just throw out 11 players and hope to win a game with individual brilliance.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

If we play 4-4-2 who can be the 2 in the centre midfield ?

----------------------Ronaldo ----------------Cavani--------------------

---Rashford --------X------------------X----------------Sancho----

---Shaw-----------Maguire------------Varane---------------AWB---------


We have 7 midfielders in Mata/DVB/Bruno/Pogba/Fred/McTominay/Matic but none of them are suitable to play in 2 man Centre Midfield

no way will we do that formation, leaves no spot for bruno and is essentially a 4-2-4, which would be suicidal. Plus wouldnt suit pogba at all

 

[glazed]

It’s not the icing, it’s a key ingredient of the cake itself. Ronaldo is maybe the icing.

Yes exactly. As the Ronaldo euphoria fades that reality is beginning to dawn.

 

[drunkmonkmeth]

I believe so.. though our side is good enough to play much better than we do currently.. i think even with a world class DM.. ole wont get this team playing to its potential.

 

[Chicharo]

So some of you would bench our arguably most talented player who has score in every game this season?
That is why I said earlier that it was vital to by a DM,as we all know.
If we play Pogba on the left there is only a place for one more player Jadon/Greenwood/Rash.So this may affect their further development.
If we put Pogba in the middle - well, we already saw what that looks like
Either way our incapability to buy someone to replace McFred and will cost us.

Also, another transfer window and Pogba is still here and looks happy, but this won't stop people from saying how he desperately wishes to leave.

 

[Borys]

I can understand if we can't spent any more money this summer, but I fear with all that transfers we'll have a lot of very frustrating games when we can't deliver the ball to our forwards. Doesn't matter how good they are if we can't make it work through midfield. Cavani had 7 touches against Wolverhampton...

 

[mancan92]

No he didn't. Liverpool's midfield is very effective and dominated City. I am honestly lost for words and shocked there are people who don't see how good Liverpool's midfield was when they were doing well.

They were only good because Klopp created a system that worked. Henderson had been a laughung stock of a midfielder for the longest time, Wijnaldum had just been bought from a relegated Newcastle, milner is an average player and fabinho was a rb who had one top season with Monaco. That is not exactly an embarrassment of riches but they worked because of klopp.

 

[Renegade]

433 with Scott at the base.

Short term solution. Bruno can sacrifice a bit of his output with Ronaldo in the front line.

 

[Deery]

I can understand if we can't spent any more money this summer, but I fear with all that transfers we'll have a lot of very frustrating games when we can't deliver the ball to our forwards. Doesn't matter how good they are if we can't make it work through midfield. Cavani had 7 touches against Wolverhampton...

I’m more worried about what Champions Leagues teams will do us through the middle if Wolves can get through at ease it could be another early exit this year again.

 

[croadyman]

Not gonna lie I am disappointed we didn't sign a CDM but Ole seems to think he knows best on this one and I'm sure he's aware that it will fall firmly on his shoulders if this decision backfires on him which I fear it will

 

[The Firestarter]

Nothing is the answer.

 

[Hammondo]

They were only good because Klopp created a system that worked. Henderson had been a laughung stock of a midfielder for the longest time, Wijnaldum had just been bought from a relegated Newcastle, milner is an average player and fabinho was a rb who had one top season with Monaco. That is not exactly an embarrassment of riches but they worked because of klopp.

Absolutely, but it worked well. It's not my preferred version of a midfield, but it does work well. If you're not better on the ball than your opponents, work harder.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

They were only good because Klopp created a system that worked. Henderson had been a laughung stock of a midfielder for the longest time, Wijnaldum had just been bought from a relegated Newcastle, milner is an average player and fabinho was a rb who had one top season with Monaco. That is not exactly an embarrassment of riches but they worked because of klopp.

Wijnaldum looked quality even when he was playing for Newcastle though and Liverpool have TAA, who is about as unique a fullback as you can find in the attacking department.

 

[Hammondo]

Do you think we'd win the title if we had Henderson and Milner in midfield? A good manager with sound tactics make the team play much better than they really are.

Obviously that was key, though I don't think those 2 partnered often, I believe milner was often a sub for Henderson but maybe I'm wrong. A hard working, less talented midfield can do a great job.

 

[alexthelion]

I think at this point Ole clearly sees McFred as a solid, if not very creative midfield unit.

Have there not been reports from early in the transfer window that Ole wants midfield reinforcement(s)?

Looks like the suits won't get him one (or more).

 

[Esquire]

The best solution is to play a midfield 2 of Pogba and Mctominay.In my opinion Scott is our best DM...He’s dynamic,strong,quick,can pass a ball and always gives great energy to our midfield.Alongside a dynamic DM like Scott,Pogba can play as a deep lying playmaker...This combination is certainly worth a try...

Can’t be worse than PogFred…
But seriously I agree. McSauce would be a better fit with Pogba. Fred can run but he can’t win in the air, get’s muscled off the ball by bigger mids. For a 50m pound midfielder Fred is very limited.

 

[edgecutter]

Sancho is looking like a luxury player that we possibly could have done without (greenwood has been immense) and maybe that money should have been invested in our midfield.

 

[Abraxas]

Not gonna lie I am disappointed we didn't sign a CDM but Ole seems to think he knows best on this one and I'm sure he's aware that it will fall firmly on his shoulders if this decision backfires on him which I fear it will

Is it a case of Ole knows best or Ole couldn't find the player he wanted? Either unavailable or unconvinced by the available options?

The truth is, every player that came up in the transfer forum was more a case of "they're probably better than Fred" rather than a conclusive idea behind it. The likes of Neves, Saul etc, there were very few posts that seemed to identify that they were outstanding candidates in quality, or suited to exactly what we need. Ambivalence towards current options isn't a good enough reason to put down hard cash and wages, in the long run we need the best men for the job.

I personally don't think Ole has some midfield blindspot. He watches the same games we do. I think coming into the window we all identified CM, CB, RW, and maybe RB and ST as areas to look at and he's solved a few of them, in agreement with what most thought. Not only this, look at the manner in which he's done it, he's signed outstanding players, there are no ifs and buts. I get that we feel CM was more of a priority, but if you can't find a Varane level player to pursue for midfield maybe it's best to wait rather than compromise.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Funny this Pogba agenda narrative because he plays in a 2 for France with the exact same CB behind him - and during the Euros was one of the players of the tournament.

Gary Neville and Souness has some of our fanbase hooked.

Have you thought maybe the problem might be his pivot partner? Or let me guess he's just a magically different player for France.

Some truly DUMB POVs in our fanbase.

Clearly you didn’t watch the France v Switzerland game .

 

[Rozay]

Clearly you didn’t watch the France v Switzerland game .

Was probably one of the greatest midfield performances ever.

 

[alexthelion]

Was probably one of the greatest midfield performances ever.

By Switzerland, agreed.

 

[bosnian_red]

Sancho is looking like a luxury player that we possibly could have done without (greenwood has been immense) and maybe that money should have been invested in our midfield.

Sancho will be a great signing here and a key player, give him time. We needed a creator out wide. We can't have both Rashford and Greenwood together on the wings with a Cavani or Ronaldo in the middle. So it was one or the other to partner with Sancho on the other flank to be a creator and link player. Pogba remaining here means we have him as well who can be a creative link player on the left, but we expected him to leave last summer and then this summer, so for that it's more a good headache to have while we have it. Next summer when Pogba likely goes its a different story though.

 

[TMDaines]

Not convinced there is any one individual signing that would suddenly transform us in that position. Time for Ole, his team and the players to become greater than the sum of their parts. Enough people have made good points about all the unglamorous players and so-called weaker links in other champion sides over the last twenty years.

 

[Harry190]

This forum has been talking about a defensive midfielder for more than a decade.

 

[Devil may care]

We are 2 midfielders short, a holder who can pass and a creative #8 playmaker.