Weak Mentality vs Weak Coaching

VanDeBank

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Nonsense. We showed some real character holding on the way we did. I literally was ready to post how proud I was of the players for their attitude.

Can't plan around brain farts unfortunately.

Last time I remember us getting a red was in the 6-1 thumping vs Spurs. We seem to give up when the going gets tough.
But we didn't. We fought valiant and gave away our well fought point through a brainfart.
 

The Hilton

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Easily the worst thread of the year, the biggest strength of our team is its mentality, we defended resolutely in an incredibly hostile atmosphere and it took a deflected cross and Jesse literally handing them a goal to beat us.

The problem we had was terrible ball retention, but against a team that ran themselves into the ground, with an extra man, with the crowd driving them on and the ref allowing them to roughhouse us, anybody would have struggled to hold onto the ball for prolonged periods.
 

Nep77

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Ole is too sentimental and can't let people go. There was a need to upgrade a backroom team to play better football and he will never do that. You can see with players like Lingard still here and james starting 2 games before he was sold. It starts from Manager.
 

Desert Eagle

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Our mentality was being praised by the commentators until Lingard gave them a goal out of nothing in the last minute.

Stop being so outcome-orientated. We had a man sent off out of nothing and we absolutely gifted them a goal. Its nothing to do with mentality its individual errors
Individual errors and terrible management. We ceded possession and created nothing after the red.
 

Godfather

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Do our players lack the mentality to play for United? I understand going down to 10 men and playing for 55 minutes a man down is hard but why did we struggle so much to even get possession and get the ball up the pitch let alone have a shot on goal?

Chelsea went away to Anfield and played a man down for an entire half and came away with a point? We couldn’t even do that to a Swiss team. So is it a player quality issue or is it Ole’s management or is it the mentality/mental toughness issue? I don’t think having Ronaldo alone is going to fix the issue. He can only do so much.
It's certainly not the players at this stage
 

Vault Dweller

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It's a fecking joke. I'm sick and tired of how fecking dreadful we look in possession, both keeping it and makes smart choices in passing. The performance after the red card was atrocious. The in-game management from the coaching staff was a disgrace tonight too. Proper fuming with that and made it insanely hard for ourselves to qualify after losing theoretically the easiest away game we had.
 

VanDeBank

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Constructive post. Do you think he's the right manager for this club?
Unrelated to the thread mate. Fits right in though, both kneejerk takes.

Easily the worst thread of the year, the biggest strength of our team is its mentality, we defended resolutely in an incredibly hostile atmosphere and it took a deflected cross and Jesse literally handing them a goal to beat us.

The problem we had was terrible ball retention, but against a team that ran themselves into the ground, with an extra man, with the crowd driving them on and the ref allowing them to roughhouse us, anybody would have struggled to hold onto the ball for prolonged periods.
This guy gets it.

It's a fecking joke. I'm sick and tired of how fecking dreadful we look in possession, both keeping it and makes smart choices in passing. The performance after the red card was atrocious. The in-game management from the coaching staff was a disgrace tonight too. Proper fuming with that and made it insanely hard for ourselves to qualify after losing theoretically the easiest away game we had.
You think the atrocious performances were caused by our weak mentality and not the fact that we were down to 10 men for 60 minutes?
 

Offside

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Our opponents always play the game of their lives if we lose, according to some of you lot. You dispatch these clowns. You would say the same for Newcastle if we dropped points. They were average as they come, but we were utter shit and pathetic.
I mean they looked unreal.
 

Fooza

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That's very rational, making a complete u turn based on one loss due to a red card, a deflected cross, and an inexplicable error.
I love posts like this, makes every incident sound like we never at fault for our own demise. :lol: Let's ignore 99% of the game itself.
 

RetroStu

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Its both for me, not one or the other.
And who is supposed to install those qualities into the team?, the manager.
 

Will Singh

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Nothing to do with mentality, we didn’t have a plan. Going with a back 3 is a weakness from the management and that trickles down to the players who think defend!
 

spiriticon

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Its not just the today though. Even with 11 men I don't trust the team to defend a 1-0 lead when under the cosh against the momentum.

They crack like clockwork.

Frustrating.
 

Adam-Utd

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That's nothing to do with mentality, purely tactical.
 

RDCR07

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Its not just the today though. Even with 11 men I don't trust the team to defend a 1-0 lead when under the cosh against the momentum.

They crack like clockwork.

Frustrating.
Exactly. Is it the players fault or does management and not being coached well enough to play as a team have more of a part to play?
 

VanDeBank

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Nothing to do with mentality, we didn’t have a plan. Going with a back 3 is a weakness from the management and that trickles down to the players who think defend!
Except we looked shaky as feck after the red card, and more stable after the change to 3 at the back.
 

The Hilton

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I love posts like this, makes every incident sound like we never at fault for our own demise. :lol: Let's ignore 99% of the game itself.
Considering 99% of the game involved us showing the exact opposite to the thread, I'd rather not ignore it.

Young Boys created 2 opportunities, one immediately after the red card and one deflected cross which they scored, and they were gifted the win by a horrendous backpass.
 

VanDeBank

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Its not just the today though. Even with 11 men I don't trust the team to defend a 1-0 lead when under the cosh against the momentum.

They crack like clockwork.

Frustrating.
Which game did you watch? We didn't crack. We played a champions league match away with 10 men. We took a goal that was insanely hard to defend and our fresh sub brainfarted for the other one. None of the goals were caused by a failure of the team as a unit.

what? AWB lacking composure and the Lingard bad backpass were tactical?
Yes, because that fits the narrative that Ole is a shit coach.

I don't rate Ole, but feck me, he wasn't why we lost this game. I'd have rather seen Greenwood on than JLingz, but I'd be captain hindsight if I blamed Lingard on Ole, especially when considering Lingard is fairly reliable defensively.
 

RDCR07

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Nothing to do with mentality, we didn’t have a plan. Going with a back 3 is a weakness from the management and that trickles down to the players who think defend!
Sometimes you have to defend though. Especially when you’re down to 10 men. The problem is the way we reacted after going down to 10. We played like a Championship team.
 

DWelbz19

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How many rebuilds and deadwood destructions do we need before people realise?
 

Lebowski

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I have always thought (and still do even after tonight) that the talk of sacking Ole has been ridiculous.

That being said, it's difficult to look beyond the manager / the coaching / tactical implementation for the performance after the sending off tonight.

We have great characters in the squad and morale is really high, and Ole deserves a lot of credit for both of those things given what he inherited.

However not getting the likes of Varane, Maguire, Shaw, Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo etc to play by conceding possession and hanging on for an hour after going down to 10 is a huge tactical failure in my opinion.

It's not sackable or anything, but it's games like this that remind you that Ole and our coaches seem to be very much learning on the job. They have a team packed full of leaders, character and quality and should have been able to prepare a system that offered much more than we saw today.
 

Hugh Jass

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Even a man down we should have been able to control the ball and pass it and kill the game. Pep at Bayern went a man down to City one year and did precisely this.

We rely on individual brilliance rather than collective brilliance.

I dont think ole is getting the best out of the players that he has.
 

Flexdegea

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This is the sort of shite that is killing this place.

Player sent off while comfortable, and absolute brainfart at the end when point was in the bag, and you get these sort of threads with similar comments across the main page. Boring
 

Adam-Utd

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what? AWB lacking composure and the Lingard bad backpass were tactical?
Individual mistakes come into neither catagory.

Do you really think defending for 45 minutes and having zero shots against a team with 1 CL win in their history is good enough?
 

VP89

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Except we looked shaky as feck after the red card, and more stable after the change to 3 at the back.
We didn't. We looked more assured of dealing with crosses, but we didn't look stable in playing it out, transitions or keeping the ball and keeping it simple. Whether it was 3 at the back or 2, we didn't regain any form of control on the game itself.
 

Hoof the ball

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Knowing where you're meant to be in different phases of play in different parts of the field is a job for the manager and the coaches. Some people don't seem to grasp that bad possession starts on the training field. They reduce poor possession performances down to "X player didn't do this" or "Y player didn't pass then", without realising that coaching players and having tactical clarity maximises the player knowing where his teammates are at all times. That's why some teams can handle a high press better than others, and sometimes irrespective of individual talent at their disposal.
 

Adam-Utd

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This is the sort of shite that is killing this place.

Player sent off while comfortable, and absolute brainfart at the end when point was in the bag, and you get these sort of threads with similar comments across the main page. Boring
People have a right to be upset.

We just upset by a Swiss team called young boys :lol: if this was Liverpool we'd be laughing our heads off.
 

el3mel

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I don't know what mentality we're talking about.

Red cards happen. In this situation when the situation becomes tough we need the manager on the touchline to interfere with tactical adjustment to see out the game.

What happens is our manager is completely useless whenever we need him in such situations.

Ole is good as long as the game is going well and in our pace. Once we actually need a coach interference, we're as good as done.
 

eire-red

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Chelsea vs Liverpool is a good one to compare as it happened so recently. I think Tuchel is a lot better than Ole, but you also have players like Kante, Jorginho and Kovacic with the ability to take the sting out of the game.

I also think it makes a difference losing your RWB when you play 3 at the back, as Azpilicueta just slotted in fine and the team wasn't disrupted as much, so tactically a little different.

For the likes of Lingard though, it's clearly a mentality issue. His spell at West Ham shows that he clearly can't cut it at this level with this pressure. Lindelof and Fred maybe fall into that category too, jury is still out on DVB as we've seen him put some big performances in for Ajax.
 

ivaldo

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People shouldn't be allowed to post threads so soon after anything a loss. It addles their brains.
 

Fooza

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Considering 99% of the game involved us showing the exact opposite to the thread, I'd rather not ignore it.

Young Boys created 2 opportunities, one immediately after the red card and one deflected cross which they scored, and they were gifted the win by a horrendous backpass.
Do you think not even having a shot against Young boys with 10 men is poor? Maybe to do with subs or poor coaching/tactics?

To me, accepting that shocking performance/result on a red card, deflection and error is pretty naive.
 

MrSingh2002

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You can't keep pointing at the players when we've got a close to World Class squad.

Spotlights on Ole now.
 

spiriticon

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Which game did you watch? We didn't crack. We played a champions league match away with 10 men. We took a goal that was insanely hard to defend and our fresh sub brainfarted for the other one. None of the goals were caused by a failure of the team as a unit.



Yes, because that fits the narrative that Ole is a shit coach.

I don't rate Ole, but feck me, he wasn't why we lost this game.
A brainfart is a crack right? Somebody lost concentration and boom there goes the points.

Mentality or coaching, whatever the reason, when things are not going our way I don't trust the team to hold onto any sort of lead. Even a 2-0 lead I still worry. That must change.
 

Drainy

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Individual mistakes come into neither catagory.

Do you really think defending for 45 minutes and having zero shots against a team with 1 CL win in their history is good enough?
Both are as a result of a lax mentality from the players.

The performance wasn't good enough from the team, but playing 60 mins with 10 men away on a plastic pitch is extremely hard to deal with.
 

VidaRed

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You can’t really account for what Lingard did though? Otherwise it would have been a decent point. They played the game of their lives.
They were allowed to play. With the right subs they would have never dominated the game as much as they did.