We are an awfully coached team

[Godfather]

Definitely not bad coaching if some would have you believe.

Yeah but it's beyond common sense now surely? I mean we looked absolutely clueless

 

[sullydnl]

Think it has become an increasingly clear issue as the quality of our players has improved. Even without breaking it down into detail, you can see the difference between how well drilled City and Chelsea are compared to us at even a casual watch. It's not like those teams have flawless personnel either, but their play is much more heavily/thoroughly structured.

Wouldn't even focus so much on today's game (which was shaped by individual errors) as our PL games, including some of the ones we got good results in.

 

[meamth]

They didn't create that many but they also entirely dominated the game after the red card and created pressure in dangerous positions while we did exactly nothing since the red card.. we were demolished.

It is expected they dominated, we're a man down. They are a pressing team. It is well known we don't have a proper CDM.

Caf wanted us to score more goals after the red. Before half time we're so open it's disaster waiting to happen.

 

[IhabX7]

If folks don't understand this thread, just watch some of the other CL matches on right now. Regardless of result, watch the way these elite teams play football. And then compare it to us.

We win matches because we have some absolutely elite indivduals. To dine at the top table, you need more than that, you need elite coaching too.

Spot on.

 

[Someone]

What’s his record like against the greatest managers of all time like?

I don't think it's as simple as that. We have a good team and can beat anyone, and we tend to do well against top teams where we can find space and attack on the counter. The issue with Ole is that it feels like the team can do it only one way, and whenever faced with a tactical challenge we don't know what to do.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Yes, they have their badges. Out of curiosity how would you do it tonight?

I can't have a clue whatsoever, I dont have my badges unfortunately.

 

[Fooza]

Personally don't care about coaching anymore, Ole is adamant to rely on individual brilliance, and wants the team to be giving it all. That's his way.

But Ole has no tactical nous during games, that is a huge concern. We got a red today, and he didn't have any clue on how to set us in a defensive way whilst being able to control and at least have periods of attack to maybe nick another goal.

We will fail in European competitions because of this simply because he hasn't got plan b's and c's. Today was classic ole gunnar freestyler, and I hated that nickname, maybe I see it now.

 

[bosnian_red]

It is expected they dominated, we're a man down. They are a pressing team. It is well known we don't have a proper CDM.

Caf wanted us to score more goals after the red. Before half time we're so open it's disaster waiting to happen.

Expected they dominate? It's fecking Young Boys. A red card doesn't mean we get dominated like that. Look at other big teams who actually play competently and not rely on individual magic every game when they go a man down.

 

[Hugh Jass]

If folks don't understand this thread, just watch some of the other CL matches on right now. Regardless of result, watch the way these elite teams play football. And then compare it to us.

We win matches because we have some absolutely elite indivduals. To dine at the top table, you need more than that, you need elite coaching too.

This 100%. You look at our first three goals against Newcastle. They were all down to individual brilliance.

 

[Sultan]

Wait, are we really blaming Ole for AVB getting sent off, and Lingard making a mistake?

United were ahead prior to those game-defining moments.

 

[Revan]

Ole, Carrick and McKenna have their badges! They are good coaches. I think Lee Grant might not have his yet, but our coaching is good!

How do you know?

 

[432JuanMata]

By that logic we get arteta in then?

That’s your logic though isn’t it ? Since you said he’s great against top managers ? It’s all about winning against the smaller teams

 

[croadyman]

Past complaining about our coaching ability now because Ole won't do anything about it so not wasting my breath anymore

 

[AjaxCunian]

How do you know?

Well @Eriku, would you like to have a go, don't think I can word it as well as you.

I think they have their badges, they passed tests or some sort of training and therefore must be of good standard. All professional coaches are good coaches.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Personally don't get about coaching anymore, Ole is adamant to rely on individual brilliance, and wants the team to be giving it all. That's his way.

But Ole has no tactical nous during games, that a huge concern. We got a red today, and he didn't have any clue on how to set us in a defensive way whilst being able to control and at least have periods of attack to maybe nick another goal.

We will fail in European competitions because of this simply because he hasn't got plan b's and c's.

I agree with the bolded but it is strange given that most of Ole's most significant wins have come from setting us up deep to counter.

I can only presume that he underestimated Young Boys and thought that we could overpower them in the 2nd half without making any tactical adjustments.

 

[LJJT]

That’s your logic though isn’t it ? Since you said he’s great against top managers ? It’s all about winning against the smaller teams

Is that all it’s about though? Beat 11 teams home and away then get spanked by the other 5? We would be worse of than we are now.

 

[meamth]

Wait, are we really blaming Ole for AVB getting sent off, and Lingard making a mistake?

United were ahead prior to those game-defining moments.

Seems like it. Sack Ole today for losing against Young Boys with 10 men.

 

[Foxbatt]

How do you know?

I know that Carrick was a terrible coach when he was coaching some academy in Manchester before he got the United gig.

 

[NK86]

Yeah but it's beyond common sense now surely? I mean we looked absolutely clueless

The pattern is there for all to see except the most biased Ole fans. Against a low block, we struggle to create much. That is completely down to poor coaching when we consider the attacking players we have at our disposal.

This team is now well and truly Ole's. He needs to deliver a big silverware (FA cup/PL/CL) this season or he needs to go. If he lands at least one of those, keep him for another season and give him the midfielder as well, else bid him goodbye for good measure.

 

[432JuanMata]

Wait, are we really blaming Ole for AVB getting sent off, and Lingard making a mistake?

United were ahead prior to those game-defining moments.

It’s nothing to do with the sending off, yes that changed the game but we were mauled afterwards and that shouldn’t happen 10 men or not

 

[RetroStu]

One thing is for cetain, this is the best Utd squad post SAF, and probably better than the last few years of SAF's career here.
Its going to fecking suck not to get the best out of it the next few years.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

There was a moment in the 2nd half where Pogba was holding up the ball out on the right wing, getting his body in the way and bouncing YB defenders off him as he looked for an option, and everyone else in a blue shirt just stood still, nobody made a run or made themselves available. It's maddening. Either we are badly coached, or every player in the team is just as dumb as a post.

Simple stuff, like passing and moving, just seems to elude us.

 

[Revan]

Well @Eriku, would you like to have a go, don't think I can word it as well as you.

I think they have their badges, they passed tests or some sort of training and therefore must be of good standard. All professional coaches are good coaches.

Oh, in that aspect sure. By the same logic, Roy Hodgson is also a good coach/manager. As are David Moyes, Lumen and Round.

Doesn't mean they are good for us though. And from what we see in the pitch, neither are Ole, Carrick and McKenna.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

I have to agree with the title of this thread.

As I said in the OGS performance thread:

Does Ole and his coaching staff not practice possibles scenarios at Carrington with the team if we were to go down to 10 men? Drills such as how do we shape up with a man short? How do we keep hold of possession with lesser players than the opponent? How can we still look and pose a threat with a man short? On tonight’s evidence, you genuinely can’t say we do because as soon as AWB was sent off, we just looked completely lost of ideas and couldn’t keep hold of possession for more than 3 mins. We didn’t even have an attempt at goal, never mind on target after the red card.

 

[Sultan]

This 100%. You look at our first three goals against Newcastle. They were all down to individual brilliance.

This is why clubs pay big money to get them into the club. Anyway, great players hardly need coaching.

 

[432JuanMata]

Is that all it’s about though? Beat 11 teams home and away then get spanked by the other 5? We would be worse of than we are now.

Who said anything about getting spanked ? Even with 2 wins and 5 draws against the big 6 last year would be fine if we beat 7- 20 on a consistent basis

 

[AjaxCunian]

Oh, in that aspect sure. By the same logic, Roy Hodgson is also a good coach/manager. As are David Moyes, Lumen and Round.

Doesn't mean they are good for us though. And from what we see in the pitch, neither are Ole, Carrick and McKenna.

Yes mate, you are a fast learner! They are all good coaches.

 

[NK86]

Wait, are we really blaming Ole for AVB getting sent off, and Lingard making a mistake?

United were ahead prior to those game-defining moments.

That second half performance, even considering that we were down a man, with zero attempts, is completely on Ole's coaching abilities and his cowardly tactics.

 

[Yagami]

I remember when we got a red card in LvGs first season away to City. We were brilliant that day despite the loss. Because of LvGs coaching, we could still keep the ball, play out of their press, and create chances. This, again, was at the Etihad; a hard place to go and play football with 11 men.

A red card doesn't automatically mean abandoning any attempt at playing football whatsoever. Especially when you're already 1-0 against an opponent nowhere near your league.

 

[Kush]

Think it has become an increasingly clear issue as the quality of our players has improved. Even without breaking it down into detail, you can see the difference between how well drilled City and Chelsea are compared to us at even a casual watch. It's not like those teams have flawless personnel either, but their play is much more heavily/thoroughly structured.

Wouldn't even focus so much on today's game (which was shaped by individual errors) as our PL games, including some of the ones we got good results in.

Some of us have been banging this drum for a while, but we've repeatedly had "Ole doesn't have an X player in Y position". "Judge him, when he's built his team". Now, there's this mythical DM, who'd suddenly solve all of our ball-playing problems. Those who don't see issues in how we play after 3 years, won't suddenly see it now. They'll cherry pick and throw favorable stats at you all day, or name call you for being an armchair coach.

We repeatedly get outplayed by teams with far fewer resources than us, they look a lot more organized and they seem to follow some semblance of plan. I don't see this with us, except when we are playing Top teams, because then it's clear we are trying to absorb pressure and hit them on break. Versus mid-table and rest of the fodder, I can't tell you what sort of football we try to play. Southampton, Wolves and Young Boys today. These performances keep repeating, no amount of new shiny signings will ever change this. Our biggest handicap is the manager, because not only is he completely inexperienced at this level. He has also surrounded himself with likes of Carrick and McKenna in coaches, who themselves are rookies at this level. Not to mention, his #2 is Micky Phelan was plucked out of 2nd tier Australian League. I mean it's not really a surprise we look deer in headlights so often.

 

[Revan]

Yes mate, you are a fast learner! They are all good coaches.

Ok, everyone who has a badge is a good coach.

Why on Earth teams even bother changing their stuff? Chelsea should have stuck with their rookie coaches they had last year, instead of firing them and hiring Tuchel and his stuff. Would have won UCL anyway.

 

[Ole90+3]

Yes mate, you are a fast learner! They are all good coaches.

That’s very patronising for someone who seems to be talking out his backside

 

[clarkydaz]

If folks don't understand this thread, just watch some of the other CL matches on right now. Regardless of result, watch the way these elite teams play football. And then compare it to us.

We win matches because we have some absolutely elite indivduals. To dine at the top table, you need more than that, you need elite coaching too.

im not that bothered by the result, that goal was coming all second half. Im absolutely shellshocked you can manage a game and group of elite players that badly

 

[AjaxCunian]

I remember when we got a red card in LvGs first season away to City. We were brilliant that day despite the loss. Because of LvGs coaching, we could still keep the ball, play out of their press, and create chances. This, again, was at the Etihad; a hard place to go and play football with 11 men.

A red card doesn't automatically mean abandoning any attempt at playing football whatsoever. Especially when you're already 1-0 against an opponent nowhere near your league.

Which is fine but we shouldnt be expecting that of our manager. No one can really predict when you will have to play with 10 men, come on, let's be fair. Would be a nice bonus.

 

[bond19821982]

Ole just knows to defend and counter. With such an attacking lineup, we just can't sit back and expect to hit the teams on counter. With Ronaldo, Pogba and Bruno we have to dominate games ,even against 10 man. No disrespect to YB but do you think Chelsea or City or Bayern would respond like we did today ?

We have some perfect combination of youngsters , peak players and a GOAT. We just can't miss this opportunity of such a great team under a clueless manager.

 

[Sultan]

It’s nothing to do with the sending off, yes that changed the game but we were mauled afterwards and that shouldn’t happen 10 men or not

Let's not sensationalise losing a game in injury time with 10 men. Their goal came in injury time. Hardly mauled.

 

[LJJT]

Who said anything about getting spanked ? Even with 2 wins and 5 draws against the big 6 last year would be fine if we beat 7- 20 on a consistent basis

so he’s got the measure of the best managers in the world then? But he’s shit because we don’t win 100% vs the lesser teams like pep, Klopp and tuchel do? (They don’t) You can’t have it both ways

 

[roonaldo78]

It is expected they dominated, we're a man down. They are a pressing team. It is well known we don't have a proper CDM.

Caf wanted us to score more goals after the red. Before half time we're so open it's disaster waiting to happen.

Expected to dominate? This is the sort of mentality for us being where we are and the lack of winning competitions. With the squad of players at our disposal, expectation needs to increase and we should be challenging for the major trophies rather than expecting to be dominated by Young Boys.

Take the Chelsea - Liverpool game and how Tuchel managed it when down to ten men, if they gave up and expected to be dominated they would have got hammered.

 

[el3mel]

Wait, are we really blaming Ole for AVB getting sent off, and Lingard making a mistake?

United were ahead prior to those game-defining moments.

We're blaming him for his shit subs and terrible game management after the red.

 

[VP89]

Let's not sensationalise losing a game in injury time with 10 men. Their goal came in injury time. Hardly mauled.

I don't think its sensationalism. We couldn't string more than 3 passes together, hoofed it at most opportunities, fell extremely deep and allowed them to take 19 shots on our goal.