CL L Champions League Champions League Group F

Young Boys 2:1 Manchester United

Post-match discussion


Tue, 14 September 2021

lysglimt

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Still 15 points to play for, so we need not worry just yet.

However this could definitely be this years Istanbul if we end up needing the point a draw would have given us.
Nah - because in this group we will qualify with 10 points. A win in our next game and chances are big we are top-2 again.
 

Mickeza

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We were great after Ronaldo went off.
We saw the last 15 minutes out exceptionally comfortably until Lingard gifted them a goal. They were restricted to efforts outside the box hence the 19 shots. Cross doesn’t equal danger. Oddly enough it was quite similar to Liverpool against Chelsea who also flooded their box with CBs and encouraged Liverpool to cross it in. You know? That Tuchel masterclass everyone is talking about. The key difference was we didn’t have a Lukaku up front or a Jorginho in CM to hold onto the ball at times.
 

croadyman

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It's a set back but you need these things to knock you back to reality and make you focus to go on to better things

What happened tonight could be a blessing in disguise come the end of the season.

The best players and teams are defined by how they respond to adversity
Yeah I could trust this to fire up Ronny & Rafa but some of the others including Ole and the coaching staff I don't share the same confidence
 

Magical Manchester United

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Also this result is more evidence that this club is cursed by the football gods to not have proper success again.

Any other club and AWB's tackle would not have been a red card. Any other club would not have conceded a completely avoidable goal in the 95th minute.

There is a curse put on players when they join Man United. Look at Lukaku. Beast at Everton. Beast at Inter. Beast at Chelsea. Walking meme at Man United.
 

eldoherz

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Nah - because in this group we will qualify with 10 points. A win in our next game and chances are big we are top-2 again.
Yeah hence the point about 15 points left to play for. We still have wriggle room for if we have another slip up.

But if we somehow manage to cock it up royally and a single point is the difference we would definitely be looking back at tonight ruefully.
 

drunkmonkmeth

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I've come to the conclusion that Ole is a world class manager but a terrible coach. what hes done to improve our squad, keep the media out of our locker room and keep these players happy cant be ignored.. but games like this.. games like Istanbul.. its way to frequent. there's way to many games in the past I can compare today to..

the fact we cant play with 10 men like we couldn't vs spurs where they embarrassed us.
the fact that ole makes terrible late subs and loses us games like he did with tuanzebe last season.
the fact that oles line up, game plan and subs jus leaves everyone confused.

alot at united has improved over the last few years.. but the things Ole has been poor with. there has been zero improvement.. its just the same. I've been Ole out for a while. I'll be Ole out unless he wins us something meaningful this season. He just isn't good enough and hes not improving at all.
 

Roosney

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:lol: just finished watching the match. Oh lord what a shite show after the red card Messi Lingard stole the show though.
 

Chief123

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Only positive is Atalanta v Villareal ending in a draw which was probably the best result for us.
 

swissgenius

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Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.

I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.

When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.

There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.

If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.

If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.

We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.
This, exactly!
I'll never understand why he did that. What was the intention? How on earth were those substitutions helpful to deal with the growing pressure?! It's not just hindsight, asked that right after VDB left the pitch.

Good thing is that the damage could've been bigger.
Draw in the other game and YB could take points from them at home too.
 

croadyman

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This is pure complacency. We have seven defeats in 11 Champions League games under Ole. And the disastrous defeat to Villarreal in the Europa League final. What makes you think it is a one off
Yeah we do seem to take games for granted in europe more than the league and that is arrogance we need to cut out right now
 

ShinjiNinja26

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I think the draw between Villareal and Atalanta is a good thing and provides a bit of damage limitation to our awful result. At least neither of the other two stronger teams have picked up 3 points on us and we're now only 1 point off 2nd place.
True but it’s still really annoying we were literally seconds from coming away with a point after a terrible night and would have left the whole group level on points basically nullifying our poor night. As you said though not the worst case scenario and still plenty games left to play, we should still be topping this group.
 

Hugh Jass

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Just wish we could play the next game tomorrow. Really feel bad when we do badly.
 

croadyman

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I'd argue a De Jong type, too. A Rice so we actually have someone capable of shielding and contributing to the defence (our incredible 06-11 defence had Carrick despite all the praise the back 5 gets) and a De Jong so we actually have someone who can control a game, keep the ball under pressure and help the team settle when things are getting tough.

That's hipster talk!
Yeah always felt we needed both types of midfielder but the club see it very differently so nothing we can do is going to change that
 

pascell

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Any interviews?
And what could be possibly said in an interview to make that defeat less embarrassingly shite?

We've had all the excuses under the sun, just check out the players Instagram accounts after we lost games last season, they're all there.
 

croadyman

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We saw the last 15 minutes out exceptionally comfortably until Lingard gifted them a goal. They were restricted to efforts outside the box hence the 19 shots. Cross doesn’t equal danger. Oddly enough it was quite similar to Liverpool against Chelsea who also flooded their box with CBs and encouraged Liverpool to cross it in. You know? That Tuchel masterclass everyone is talking about. The key difference was we didn’t have a Lukaku up front or a Jorginho in CM to hold onto the ball at times.
Yeah because our clowns don't see ball retention as important sadly
 

UTD_Since_1978

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Reporter: So Ole, are you going to sell Lingard & use that money to buy a much needed CDM?

Ole: Well, you know Jessie is a great lad, he's important for us & very much in my plans for the new season, he won't be sold plus with Matic, Fred & Scott, who needs a new midfielder I'm very happy with what I've got.



Let's face facts here we've got a lot of players now that would walk in to most top clubs starting XI's & we end up losing to a team like Young Boys, who, let's face it, if their players really were better than our players, clubs in the EPL, German, Spanish & Italian leagues would've signed them in the summer.

Being down to 10 men really shouldn't be used as an excuse either.

Let's hope this is the wake-up call we need for the rest of the season, we shall see.
 

Hugh Jass

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Merson basically saying what some posters are, that if it were City that went down to ten against young boys, City would still have kept control of the ball.
 

justsomebloke

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Okay until Wan-Bissaka headlessly got himself sent off. But it's really, really hard to feel okay about how we handled that situation.

Where did we choose to go to deal with the 10-men situation, one goal up? We could either have tried to play through it and continue attacking, or we could choose to play it safe, drop deeper, sit tight and trust in our ability to keep them off the scoresheet. We chose the latter. Fair enough. It's not beyond possible reproach through what it says about how confident we are about being a top club, but fair enough. There's an argument for it. I get it.

But what I don't get is why, if we take that course, we don't simultaneously set up to maximise our counterattack threat? The first substitution, Sancho for Dalot, immediately removes our fastest forward. Pogba (at least on left flank) and arguably even Ronaldo are not really counterattack players - they are at their most effective in established play, when we have the ball a lot - and that option passed when we brought on a third CB. At that point, Bruno, Greenwood, Sancho and Lingard represented our key potential counterattack assets.

The substitutions made however seemed rather to indicate no great counterattacking intent. With Fred and Pogba shielding a 3-man central defence, that pretty much left us with Bruno to feed Ronaldo for any attacking threat, unless our full backs got heavily involved, which they didn't, or at least was not able to. Would it have made more sense to keep Sancho on, and bring on either Greenwood or Lingard to give us two players to threaten their back line on the break, with Pogba and Ronaldo taken off instead? And Bruno double-timing as pivot cover and link-up man on the counterattack? What we did do cannot have been expected to do more than try to control things defensively. Chelsea did that against Liverpool for a whole half and succeeded, so I guess it's not too outlandish for United to attempt it against YBB, but it doesn't take much bad luck or many mistakes for it to backfire, and it did.

Above all though - that backpass from Lingard. At that point in the game. The sheer, mind-numbing idiocy of it. Shit happens, but this.....

Finally. This was one game. It doesn't mean the team is shit, it doesn't mean the manager is incompetent, it doesn't prove you've been right all along, because for everything that went wrong here, there's no shortage of other games where the opposite happened. And please, please, please is it really not possible to discuss a game without making it just a pawn in the bigger, hugely boring and pointless game of toldyousoism and Xhastogoism? Have a fecking sense of perspective, much of this thread is (as usual when things go badly) a disgrace.
 

Goku1983

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Putting on Varane for VDB was one of the stupidest thing he’s done as manager
Why did Varane not start anyway ? Thats really worrying and baffling to me you dont mess with your best center back pairing at any club
 

Judas

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There's no excuse why Ole made us instantly shit the bed and turn ultra defensive at the first sign of trouble. Fine if it was just till we got to half time. But that second half display and tactics were tragic. But it says a lot about his approach and it's once again deeply worrying.
 

Stig

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Ole didn't tackle like a donkey to get sent off.
Ole didn't make the back pass with 30 seconds to go.
 

justsomebloke

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Putting on Varane for VDB was one of the stupidest thing he’s done as manager
No it wasn't. It gave us firm control of our box, and cut off their ability to exploit the space between the full backs and the CBs. It only really slipped once, but that was enough. If we were going to play deep, it was the right thing to do, in my opinion.
 

Hugh Jass

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There's no excuse why Ole made us instantly shit the bed and turn ultra defensive at the first sign of trouble. Fine if it was just till we got to half time. But that second half display and tactics were tragic. But it says a lot about his approach and it's once again deeply worrying.
Yea. I saying when AWB got the red, it will be interesting to see how we respond. Our response was woeful.
 

UnitedWA

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Ole is a coward! Tactics were dreadful. We should've destroyed this team without 1 player comfortly...
 

Dve

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Not sure if you watched the second half but what actually happened is we went to a back 3, and then got our arses completely handed to us with crosses coming freely into the box whenever Young Boys felt like it.

I don't understand how there is any logic in this iin the scenario of being a man down,, since teams who play 3 centrebacks aren't particularly better at not conceding goals when put under pressure as opposed to teams who don't, but that's kind of besides the point, as the point is that it would, very obviously, put us under more pressure.

When you are a man down, and set up with a back four, changing it to a back 5 means you are then two men down, outside of your defence, which means your defence is under much more pressure unless you change the entire system and tactics, at which point whether there are two or three centrebacks is probably not going to matter much since the whole team will be back anyway, desperately clearing the balll over and over.

There's no point trying to deploy some kind of clever tactic (that ignores the fact players aren't actually pieces on a chess board) if it means you can't even do the simple things like keep the ball away from your own penalty area.

If he did want to bring on an extra defender, then subbing off VDB or Fred was a definite "don't do this" move, as Pogba and Fernandes are not midfielders or possession players, they are attacking players who disappear into a void if you aren't set up to attack, and you can't play with 10 men and with one fecking midfielder and one forward, and expect to do anything other than hopelessly cling on. Maybe you do it for 5 minutes at the end when the players are knackered. Not for an entire bloody half.

If he had to do it he could have taken off Pogba or Fernandes at that point rather than have two players effectively doing nothing, and if he didn't want to take either off he shouldn't have brought the extra defender on and rendered them both pointless.

We can go on about hindsight but there's a common theme with Ole of watching the game and being able to see the mistakes he's making before or as they end up costing us. It is, for example, why this thread exists.
Still, we looked a lot more comfortable at the start of second half than the last 10 of the first. I don´t think the idea was to defend the lead, but rather to allow Shaw and Dalot to move further up the pitch and provide some width in attack instead of having all the play around our box.

In the end, it didn´t pay off, but the change itself seemed like a good idea. Our problem was that we were never able to get hold of the ball, but I felt Ole didn´t really have the tools to change the game as it unfolded. Rashford´s speed on top and McTominay´s engine in the middle is what we would have needed, instead of immobile Ronaldo and Pogba.
 

Ole'sgunnarwin

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Oooof that was the angriest I've been after watching us for a while. It's the classic post-Fergie momentum buster. The atmosphere on Saturday was incredible and there's been a real positive energy this week. Hopefully, we can forget about this one quickly.

Another thing is we are the worst side that go down to 10 men. (This is something we were poor at even under Fergie) We just never seem to create anything and sit back too much. I get we're going to be worse and we need to sit back a little more. But there's no excuse to surrender possession at every given opportunity.
 

wolvored

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I watched the entire match, I remember 2 chances they created, the shot from the edge of the box immediately after the red, and the cross that deflected off Shaw for their first goal.

Which ones did I miss?
Theres a 6 min highlights video on youtube its got more than 2 chances in those 6 mins. Go have a look.
 

Mickeza

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Silly me. I didn't realise our goal was to draw this match.
It was when we went down to 10, they equalised and the crowd got well into the game. The goal is to get out of the group and it would have been a good point. I get it though. I’d have been gutted with a point in those circumstances on Football Manager too mate.
 

The Hilton

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Theres a 6 min highlights video on youtube its got more than 2 chances in those 6 mins. Go have a look.
If you're talking about the BT sport highlights then it shows exactly what I said, a few shots from miles away and the 2 chances I mentioned. If not, then post the video.
 

clarkydaz

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i thought we signed Varane in order not to play like that anymore. whats the point in parking the bus when you are clearly shit at it anyway, and with world class players
 

Player Ratings

4.9 Total Average Rating

Highest Rated Player

Lowest Rated Player

Compiled from 280 ratings.

Score Predictions

265,4,3
  • Man Utd win
  • Young Boys win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 29% Young Boys 0:3 Man Utd
  • 22% Young Boys 0:2 Man Utd
  • 13% Young Boys 1:3 Man Utd
  • 11% Young Boys 0:4 Man Utd
  • 9% Young Boys 1:2 Man Utd
  • 8% Young Boys 0:5 Man Utd
  • 3% Young Boys 1:4 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 1:5 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 0:1 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 2:0 Man Utd
  • 1% Young Boys 1:1 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 0:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 3:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 5:0 Man Utd
  • 0% Young Boys 2:4 Man Utd
Compiled from 272 predictions.
Show more results Score Predictions League Table

Match Stats

  1. Young Boys
  2. Man Utd
Possession
54% 46%
Shots
19 2
Shots on Target
5 2
Corners
8 1
Fouls
14 3