[Infra-red]

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It's more than a testing ground for young/squad players - it's 50% of the trophies that we can realistically win this season.

 

[Hansi Fick]

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Well, the possibility to give minutes is now over. Still, who gives a feck about the Carabao Cup.
Noone.

 

[LDUred]

Surprised at the indifference to going out on here.
To me I think that you had a realistic chance to win a domestic cup but that just leaves the FAC.
Think PL and CL are beyond you this season.

'Surprised at the indifference to going out on here.' Are you kidding? The indifference was on the fecking teamsheet. Why would the fans get worked up about losing a game we fielded a second-string in.

No one's feeling devastated about being knocked out of a cup when OGS clearly sees it as surplus to requirements.

Matic, Mata, Telles, Dalot, Martial -- that's half of the outfield players already and not one of them are anyway near being a first pick or are even close to being in the manager's thoughts. They're back ups/shop window squad players and pretty average ones at that. No-one's banging down the door to get picked.

We move on to the next game and being out of an undervalued cup competition and resting Ronaldo's legs is actually a plus for us.

Even if we were to win it I don't think OGS would be judged on it. He's judged on the major cup comps.

 

[RedPed]

Does it really bother you? I don't really care that city and there billion pound squad win a tin pot trophy most years.

Dont get me wrong if we were to win it I would celebrate a little but its almost a non entity in all honesty especially in the early rounds.

Ah, one of those fully paid up self-entitled members of the tinpot trophy brigade. Nice.

 

[redmanx]

Man Utd almost completely dominated this game.

Ole was spot on with the team selection, he finally did what I and many others have been calling for ever since he took over: rotate more.

Result is fully on the players - they had 25 shots on goal but lacked composure in the final third.

Rustiness probably also played a role.

Performances by Dalot, Sancho and especially Donny were the main positives.

Donny and Matic played wel together and pretty much controlled the midfield I thought.

Not winning the League Cup is not the main issue here - missing out on fixtures where the second string could get more gametime is.

Oh and no quadruple.

Still the FA Cup and another Treble to play for though.

Martial played well in the first half but was invisible and quite bad second half.

Like I've been saying I don't see how he's supposed to get gametime now.

Been thinking he and James (whose departure to Leeds I was against but understood) could be replaced in the squad by Elanga.

Martial shouldnt get anymore game time for us, he should be sold to the first club who show an interest in him.

 

[redmanx]

Saw som good performances, Martial is done though. I can't see him coming back from this slump.

I hope and pray he doesnt!

 

[croadyman]

It's more than a testing ground for young/squad players - it's 50% of the trophies that we can realistically win this season.

Yeah worrying sign

 

[wolffy]

Not good enough.

It seems to be the norm now, OGS has no interest in cups and it shows in how the team plays. Honestly believe we will win nothing under OGS and the current coaching staff, could have lost by 3 at home.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

All I can say about that is Telles, Bailly, Mata and Martial won't be starting many games over the next 3 months...and that's even if they survive January I suppose (they will, we're shit at culling shit, and Mata is just here for vibes now).

Sancho was poor for a while but started looking comfortable as the game went on. Dalot did okay. VDB was fine.

Ultimately the forward players weren't clicking, the movement and the desire to bag a goal wasn't there either.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I get the need for some rotation in yesterday's game. What really frustrates me is making 11 and bringing in too many players who were rusty all in one go and leaving out too many scorers.

Man City played at home to a league one club (what a shock!) and still went in with a front five of De Bruyne, Foden, Mahrez, Sterling, Torres. With the likes of Jesus and Bernardo on the bench. Yes, they made plenty of changes - they could afford to given the opposition - but they still made sure they went in with plenty of proven goals in the starting line up. We left out too many of our more likely scorers.

We had three winnable home games in a row. We could've rotated the players amongst those games in a valid attempt to win all 3 - e.g. starting Pogba last night and Tuesday, on the bench v Villa; Bruno on the bench last night, starting the other two; Varane (or Maguire) starting last night alongside one of the understudies, and rested for Lindelof for one of the other two games, etc - rather than throwing the knockout cup game with 11 changes to solely focus on the other two.

I know it's the fashionable thing to make huge amounts of changes in domestic cup games - even for mid table clubs who have little reason for doing so - but we didn't have to make as many as we did for this game, and reduce our chances of winning by as much as we did, and it's just feels a very avoidable, unnecessary and frustrating loss.

 

[tjb]

We played well enough to win just lacked the finishing. Stonewall penalty denied in the 1st half.

Giving Martial a new contract after a few months of decent form really sums up how incompetently this club is run.

Mourinho was right to want him out ASAP, one of the most passive footballers I’ve seen in my life. Disgraceful that he’s still here but I can’t see any club taking on his contract. He’s certainly not the type to leave out of professional pride either.

I had some concerns about Sancho outside of the attacking Dortmund system and he’s really struggling right now. He just isn’t providing the threat he needs to and seems confused as to what to do. I worry that when Rashford and Cavani come back there’ll be less opportunities for him.

Truthfully, that's not our problem. If rashford comes in and outshines him or Greenwood continues to grow, he'll still always have spots in this team. He can play as a 10, and both Greenwood and Rashford can play as 9s. However He can play his way into the starting 11 by playing well. Its that simple. Just like Mahrez at City or Jota at Liverpool.

 

[always_hoping]

I generally agree with the last sentence. But you have to recognize that two losses this early on isn’t good for morale. And it wasn’t wayward shooting per se. had two or three real chances were we could have scored.

Perspective is needed. The losses was tonight a league cup 3rd tie where none of tonight's starters will start on Saturday and last week in a match that was played with 10 men for an hour and lost with a
Individual error in the 5th minute of injury time.

 

[edcunited1878]

I get the need for some rotation in yesterday's game. What really frustrates me is making 11 and bringing in too many players who were rusty all in one go and leaving out too many scorers.

Man City played at home to a league one club (what a shock!) and still went in with a front five of De Bruyne, Foden, Mahrez, Sterling, Torres. With the likes of Jesus and Bernardo on the bench. Yes, they made plenty of changes - they could afford to given the opposition - but they still made sure they went in with plenty of proven goals in the starting line up. We left out too many of our more likely scorers.

We had three winnable home games in a row. We could've rotated the players amongst those games in a valid attempt to win all 3 - e.g. starting Pogba last night and Tuesday, on the bench v Villa; Bruno on the bench last night, starting the other two; Varane (or Maguire) starting last night alongside one of the understudies, and rested for Lindelof for one of the other two games, etc - rather than throwing the knockout cup game with 11 changes to solely focus on the other two.

I know it's the fashionable thing to make huge amounts of changes in domestic cup games - even for mid table clubs who have little reason for doing so - but we didn't have to make as many as we did for this game, and reduce our chances of winning by as much as we did, and it's just feels a very avoidable, unnecessary and frustrating loss.

How can you say United threw the least important competition of their season? The rotation was more than fine and makes sense. And United are still without two players in Cavani and Rashford, who probably would have played a part in the match tonight/last night. Fringe players need match time before the next international break in a few weeks time. United have 3 matches in a week starting on Saturday against Villa, massive CL home fixture against Villarreal on Wednesday, then less than 72 hours later another Saturday midday kickoff against Everton.

On the other hand, if Ole didn't rotate enough knowing there's an early kickoff on Saturday against Villa, then he would have gotten ridiculed regardless.

 

[tentan]

Pathetic. I know its a second team but we had enough quality on the pitch to win the game. Dreadful.

 

[noodlehair]

Players who are not going to be any use or good enough to play in games that supposedly matter, do not "need minutes"...all it is doing is taking minutes away from players who might do or develop into something useful.

And if you make 11 changes and stick a bunch of fringe players in with players who are not good enough, you learn nothing.

As soon as I saw the team I thought we'd lose because none of the front four (i.e. our attack) were players you could realistically expect to score in a game.

The obsession with giving martial xinfinity chances to prove over and over that he is not going to do anything useful is just pathetic management at this point. You have greenwood who deserves opportunities up front and isn't getting them. You have Elanga who deserves a chance and isn't getting it. You have Rashford and Cavani to come back yet who any sane manager would pick ahead of martial anyway. There is no reason to keep giving him chances when he is clearly not doing enough to earn them.

I'm sorry but ole is an idiot

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Players who are not going to be any use or good enough to play in games that supposedly matter, do not "need minutes"...all it is doing is taking minutes away from players who might do or develop into something useful.
/snip

The jury is still out on some of these players, VDB, Dalot, Telles, Bailly to name four, and they did need minutes. These players should be ready to step up if there is an injury crisis, Playing competitive games is the only way they are going to get anywhere near ready. Conversely, if someone like Martial just continues to turn in stinkers, it also allows the club to make the necessary arrangements to get rid of him.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

The amount of times we concede the first goal is completely unacceptable and it will stop us winning anything under Ole. We seem to have gone behind in at least 50% of our matches over the past year. I'd love to see the stats.

 

[cyril C]

didn't watch the game, but based on video clip.

1. It was a threat coming from nowhere, 3 against 3. Left back at fault.
2. VDB rushed forward and lost his marker, and worse, closing the gap but allowed the ball to pass through - terrible positional awareness.

 

[noodlehair]

The jury is still out on some of these players, VDB, Dalot, Telles, Bailly to name four, and they did need minutes. These players should be ready to step up if there is an injury crisis, Playing competitive games is the only way they are going to get anywhere near ready. Conversely, if someone like Martial just continues to turn in stinkers, it also allows the club to make the necessary arrangements to get rid of him.

I don't have an issue with playing the likes of VDB or using the league cup to give people minutes, but he keeps giving minutes to players who we already know we can't use in other games unless we want to lose. Players should not get endless chances to prove they are not good enough at the expense of other players.

Martial does not even put the work in during a game to suggest he cares about doing any better. He literally goes through games offering nothing. If it was one of two games maybe he gets the benefit of the doubt. It's reached a point however where you KNOW this is what he will do, so there is no justification to pick him ahead of anyone. Mata literally played tonight so that he could play in a game. He won't play again until there's another game where we can play him just to give him a game. How fecking pointless is this? Fernandes, Pogba, Sancho, Lingard, VDB can all play in his position.

Playing players to keep them happy who you have no use for other than to keep happy is the management of a stupid person. It doesn't allow the club to make any arrangements. No one is going to watch Martial moping about once a month and suddenly decide they want to buy him. No one is going to buy Mata because he played 1 game against West Ham and didn't do anything.

Meanwhile we are now out if a cup and have other players in the squad like Elanga who can't get a game because of this illogical nonsense.

We are 7 games into the season. Southampton away was handicapped by Ole picking a stupid team and making stupid subs. Wolves away was handicapped by Ole picking a stupid team and leaving Fred alone in midfield. Newcastle was made into a struggle by Ole picking no midfield. Young Boys was handicapped by Ole picking a weird team and making frankly ridiculous subs. Tonight was handicapped by another weird team selection and some stupid subs. Why did Elanga come on essentially as a full back? Who was even playing where at the end?

That's 5 out of 7 games where Ole has completely mismanaged his players to the point it has noticeably had an adverse effect on the performance. The same pattern as last season where it made most of our games extremely frustrating to watch.

I have been behind him and defended him a lot but he does not know how to use his own players which is not acceptable when he's worked with them for years and bought half of them.

 

[Barnslig]

Second string players that find themselves complaining about playing time really need to take a good hard look at themselves. Over the last few years, every time a rotated team has been given a chance we end up with egg on our faces. I mean, yes there's blame to lay at Ole's feet for not giving players more chances, but feck me some of our players make it hard for themselves.

If you can't beat a second string West Ham team fielding players in their mid 30s, then you pretty obviously don't deserve to progress, and you lose the opportunity to play more games. The team we fielded today should've been more than good enough to progress past this West Ham side.

 

[sglowrider]

Ole should have fielded a stronger team. He needs a cup, any cup, otherwise the pressure keeps mounting on him and I don't think he does well under pressure.

People have been asking for his sacking 2 1/2 years ago. What pressure?

 

[Red1968]

It was a very underwhelming performance no doubt and they were lucky that West Ham didnt add 2 or 3 more goals at the end. The only highlight for me was the the utterly bizarre Matic knee to the balls of the West Ham player long after the ball had rolled into touch in the 2nd half. What exactly would have possessed him to do that? it really should have been a straight red. Totally unnecessary stupidity.

 

[suheilsworld]

Showed that Martial and Mata are done. We need Cavani and Rashford back so that we have a good back up. Worried with our back up options for full backs. If anything happens to AWB and Shaw, we are screwed.
Need to get our players fit and our 1st team and FA cup 2nd team sorted

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Joke of a result

 

[lex talionis]

Showed that Martial and Mata are done. We need Cavani and Rashford back so that we have a good back up. Worried with our back up options for full backs. If anything happens to AWB and Shaw, we are screwed.
Need to get our players fit and our 1st team and FA cup 2nd team sorted

Spot on. The main takeaways from this match are the horrific performances from Martial and Mata. At least Mata can by age, but Martial has no excuse. They’re both done at OT.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

How can you say United threw the least important competition of their season? The rotation was more than fine and makes sense. And United are still without two players in Cavani and Rashford, who probably would have played a part in the match tonight/last night. Fringe players need match time before the next international break in a few weeks time. United have 3 matches in a week starting on Saturday against Villa, massive CL home fixture against Villarreal on Wednesday, then less than 72 hours later another Saturday midday kickoff against Everton.

On the other hand, if Ole didn't rotate enough knowing there's an early kickoff on Saturday against Villa, then he would have gotten ridiculed regardless.

I get that people have different takes on rotation, so a manager - any manager, at any club - can't please everyone all the time. I guess the key to managing a club the size of United is to make the right call enough times to deliver plenty of victories and trophies by the end of the season. Then that justifies enough of the decisions you made along the way.

I'm just saying what I was hoping we'd do - which is make a few rotations for each of the three home games and try to put out strong sides for each while key players still got a rest for one of the games. Rather than rest them all for the same knockout cup game and, unsurprisingly, lose.

Obviously there'll be others who are happy we did that. Many were calling for it beforehand - some who, wrongly, said we'd still win whoever we put out; others who said they'd be happy enough to lose as the League Cup is 'pointless, tinpot, a distraction' etc. I happen to disagree, and so obviously wouldn't have criticised Ole if he'd opted for the choice I was hoping for. Although, as you say, those others might. I'm not really criticising Ole now - just saying I disagree with the choice he opted for.

 

[The_Midfielder]

I get the need for some rotation in yesterday's game. What really frustrates me is making 11 and bringing in too many players who were rusty all in one go and leaving out too many scorers.

Man City played at home to a league one club (what a shock!) and still went in with a front five of De Bruyne, Foden, Mahrez, Sterling, Torres. With the likes of Jesus and Bernardo on the bench. Yes, they made plenty of changes - they could afford to given the opposition - but they still made sure they went in with plenty of proven goals in the starting line up. We left out too many of our more likely scorers.

We had three winnable home games in a row. We could've rotated the players amongst those games in a valid attempt to win all 3 - e.g. starting Pogba last night and Tuesday, on the bench v Villa; Bruno on the bench last night, starting the other two; Varane (or Maguire) starting last night alongside one of the understudies, and rested for Lindelof for one of the other two games, etc - rather than throwing the knockout cup game with 11 changes to solely focus on the other two.

I know it's the fashionable thing to make huge amounts of changes in domestic cup games - even for mid table clubs who have little reason for doing so - but we didn't have to make as many as we did for this game, and reduce our chances of winning by as much as we did, and it's just feels a very avoidable, unnecessary and frustrating loss.

Who do you want us to play? Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo?

If Cavani was fit he would have played.. I do not have a problem with the team.. we just looked toothless up front

 

[CG1010]

Showed that Martial and Mata are done. We need Cavani and Rashford back so that we have a good back up. Worried with our back up options for full backs. If anything happens to AWB and Shaw, we are screwed.
Need to get our players fit and our 1st team and FA cup 2nd team sorted

I thought Dalot played well, atleast on the attacking side. Defensively he was poor and I hope the CL teams don't exploit that.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Why didn't Brunos goal stand? Isn't the ball free for all from a referee ball once it hit the ground?

It is an uncontested drop ball because West Ham had possession when the ball hit the referee..

 

[CG1010]

On another note, enjoyed Elanga's skill at the end which left one of the West Ham players on the deck. Anyone got a gif of that?

 

[RedDevil@84]

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You should rather speak out pretty loud and clear

 

[tjb]

Second string players that find themselves complaining about playing time really need to take a good hard look at themselves. Over the last few years, every time a rotated team has been given a chance we end up with egg on our faces. I mean, yes there's blame to lay at Ole's feet for not giving players more chances, but feck me some of our players make it hard for themselves.

If you can't beat a second string West Ham team fielding players in their mid 30s, then you pretty obviously don't deserve to progress, and you lose the opportunity to play more games. The team we fielded today should've been more than good enough to progress past this West Ham side.

There was a reason we were finishing 6th before Ole. Most of these squad players were starting. In some cases they had players even worse than them playing. People like to act like Martial regressed. He didn't. From 2015 to 2019 our core attackers were rashford, martial, mata and lingard. Lukaku and Ibra came in at points to save the day; but for those 5 seasons we relied on that group to create and score goals for us.

Behind that group you had the Jones/Bailly/Lindelof/Smalling defence, with an off form Shaw/Ashley Young and an aging Valencia.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

Who do you want us to play? Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo?

If Cavani was fit he would have played.. I do not have a problem with the team.. we just looked toothless up front

Of course we looked toothless up front. That was very likely when I saw the line up. City played against a league one side at home and still went in with a front 5 of De Bruyne, Foden, Mahrez, Sterling, Torres. With Jesus and Bernardo on the bench if needed. Plenty of proven scorers there. And those players will also start at least one of the weekend game or the CL match.

That's what I wanted us to do. Some rotation for all 3 games, not complete rotation for one knockout cup game that will likely, and did, end in defeat.

We could have played AWB last night, with him missing the CL game on Wednesday, instead of rushing Telles back (Dalot on left). We could have played one of Maguire or Varane alongside Lindelof or Bailly, and given the one selected a rest in one of the other two games. Rather than pick a complete back four lacking in match sharpness.

We could have played Greenwood from the start, after he didn't feature in the 1st CL game and had a free international week, rather than Mata with Lingard #10 and Martial from the left. Or we could have given one of Pogba or Fernandes 60 minutes and only used the one selected as a sub in one of the other two matches.

I guess if you don't care about the League Cup, then throwing that and completely prioritising the other two is easier and makes more sense. If you see it as a valid trophy - regularly won by the top teams - then rotating more subtly, and trying to pick strong teams in all 3 home matches that give you a good chance of winning each of them, would be the preferred choice? And it was certainly mine.

 

[VivaRonaldo85]

Missed it as away but just seen the result now. How disappointing. I would have thought a positive off shoot in spending £400 odd million on players in recent years is to create such a strong squad that the so called second string are more than good enough to take you further in these sort of competitions, i.e. why City win it most seasons.

The lazy narrative is to say who cares it’s only the league cup. The more important
narrative is to ask why a team of squad players on hundreds of thousands of pounds a week are losing that game meaning of the 4 trophies we can win, 1 opportunity has gone already.

 

[Rash Decision]

Of course we looked toothless up front. That was very likely when I saw the line up. City played against a league one side at home and still went in with a front 5 of De Bruyne, Foden, Mahrez, Sterling, Torres. With Jesus and Bernardo on the bench if needed. Plenty of proven scorers there. And those players will also start at least one of the weekend game or the CL match.

That's what I wanted us to do. Some rotation for all 3 games, not complete rotation for one knockout cup game that will likely, and did, end in defeat.

We could have played AWB last night, with him missing the CL game on Wednesday, instead of rushing Telles back (Dalot on left). We could have played one of Maguire or Varane alongside Lindelof or Bailly, and given the one selected a rest in one of the other two games. Rather than pick a complete back four lacking in match sharpness.

We could have played Greenwood from the start, after he didn't feature in the 1st CL game and had a free international week, rather than Mata with Lingard #10 and Martial from the left. Or we could have given one of Pogba or Fernandes 60 minutes and only used the one selected as a sub in one of the other two matches.

I guess if you don't care about the League Cup, then throwing that and completely prioritising the other two is easier and makes more sense. If you see it as a valid trophy - regularly won by the top teams - then rotating more subtly, and trying to pick strong teams in all 3 home matches that give you a good chance of winning each of them, would be the preferred choice? And it was certainly mine.

I didn’t watch the match but I did have a bad feeling when I saw that the entire starting XI had been rotated and most of the big hitters had been left out of the squad entirely. It was always a massive risk because the players would not have had any chance to build chemistry together. It’s not helped by the fact that we don’t play with a rigid system in which every player has strictly defined roles and rehearsed moves to follow.

 

[PaulRich]

We’ll play much worse than that and hammer teams - Telles and Martial were utter shite, Matic’ head is a yard ahead of his body, Hollywood Bruno needn’t show up . Thought getting sucked in for the goal aside Donny looked good and started to play balls Fred hasn’t even got in his locker. Not the end of the world. Upwards

 

[Rocksy]

It’s time United got a proper coach, isn’t it? Last week OGS said United almost got a “good point” vs Young Boys. I can’t think why they gave him another long contract. He’s done a decent job but he’ll hold you back.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The league cup is the worst of the cups to win granted but we've won feck all for years now it would be nice to get something.

Then you start Greenwood. As soon as Martial was named in the lineup it was a problem. He has looked awful for a long time. This isn't just him having a slow start to the season. Think he needs a change of scene to get his career up and running again. Once Rashford and Cavani are back he will be right down the pecking order.

 

[tenpoless]

bang out of order

Martial copied Ashley Young style but that only makes him half the player he was. Need to eat bird shit to be Smashley Young.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Trouble Ole has now is when do you give these players more minutes. The CL has now become a must win situtation. So it will depend who they get in the F.A. Cup, that is ages away.