Neville - ‘’no style of play’’

[Ferguson’s Hairdryer]

A manger in place for over 3 years, yet not style or pattern of play.

Basically, a group of players just relying on individual brilliance to bail us out.

First time I think Neville has directed negativity at the coaching? Albeit you have to read between the lines.

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Neville has always said that a manager needs 3 summer windows before he can be judged.

Only thing I’ll say about the whole style of play thing is that no manager waits until they have the perfect 11 until they implement their style of play. They implement their style of play, then hope that they get enough time to get the players they need to make it a winning thing.

So I really doubt we will ever see United playing anything different under Solakjaer in until future. The counter attacks will look better, and spontaneous edge of the box passing that leads to goals will be better, the wonder strikes will be better because we have better players. But don’t think under Ole we will ever be a team with a definitive style that’s better than the sum of our parts. But the fact that our individual parts are very good could get us far.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

He only won due to the squad he had, along with some of the worst ref decisions along the way in cup competitions.

If it's that easy then why couldn't Benitez win with that squad? Pep has managed some of the best squads in the world in the last 10 years and hasn't won a single CL. He didn't win back to back CL's with the greatest team of all time according to most people.

Zidane is a brilliant manager. It's insane to me people on here try to downplay his achievements. He's going down in history.

 

[estel_manutd]

This obsession with "patterns of play" is something else. We lost against Villa because we didn't do the basics well and had no leaders on the pitch. We never slowed the speed of the game down to take control of the game - we were rushed in everything we did. You can argue that message should be conveyed from the sidelines if no one on the pitch was taking responsibility. I think the problem is that Ole encourages Pogba and Bruno to always play the Hollywood pass. Playing the killer pass is fine if you win the ball in the final third. Our problem against Villa was that we won the ball in our half and went for the Hollywood pass or went on a solo run with the ball or went for a long shot instead of playing the extra pass. If we had slowed the game down by just one pass in their half we would have won that game IMO.

 

[smi11ie]

Ole was asked recently about his football philosophy. He didn't like the question and avoided it. I would have liked to hear his answer.

Utd have never been a possesion team. It was always more noticable in European games. There does seem to be a lack of a game plan now. With Cavani and Ronaldo in the team I would like to see more crosses coming it to the box.

 

[Blood Mage]

He still can't bring himself to explicitly call Ole out though.

 

[Androw]

All previous managers had a style they wanted the players to play, maybe not good ones but there was patterns. Ole is trying to copy sir Alex ” go out there and express yourself” style instead of bringing something to the table by himself…

 

[Dante]

He still can't bring himself to explicitly call Ole out though.

Who has he ever called out?

 

[Tarrou]

He blamed it more on the players being "unfamiliar" with each other and not the lack of coaching.

Point is, if there was coaching going on the new players may struggle, but you wouldn't have players who have been here for years still looking like headless chickens. it's on the coaching.

saying a few players are still settling in was just his way of softening the criticising slightly, as it's Ole

he is pretty clearly criticising the management there, and it's a bit of a shift in tone from him

 

[hobbers]

Quite a big shift in tone for Neville. Didn't expect to see that in September.

 

[Denis79]

Beginning of the end now?

If he doesn't have a really good season with this squad, yes I think it is.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He blamed it more on the players being "unfamiliar" with each other and not the lack of coaching.

Point is, if there was coaching going on the new players may struggle, but you wouldn't have players who have been here for years still looking like headless chickens. it's on the coaching.

It’s funny that our whole midfield and majority of attackers has been in the same squad for few years already, yet they are still “unfamiliar” with each other and unable to play as a unit.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ole was asked recently about his football philosophy. He didn't like the question and avoided it. I would have liked to hear his answer.

Utd have never been a possesion team. It was always more noticable in European games. There does seem to be a lack of a game plan now. With Cavani and Ronaldo in the team I would like to see more crosses coming it to the box.

His core philosophy would probably be, letting the players to go out and freely enjoy/express themselves on the pitch. His gameplay would probably be McFred to pass sideways to full back and press, Pogba and Bruno to do whatever they want, attackers to run and shoot on counter, or something similar.

 

[Amadaeus]

Obvious for everyone

You haven't been on redcafe much? I have been saying this since the beginning but my opinion wasn't taken seriously. I doubt it is obvious for many people. Heck, after we win a few games, I bet even you will fall into the false dawn trap and believe we look like a team that can win everything. This is why Ole is still here because it isn't obvious to everyone.

We have no style, but reliance on individual brilliance. I can pinpoint many post I have made towards that and the amount of criticism I have gotten for saying that. To be fair, I also did say that we were a counter-attacking team, but the majority of teams we play we can't implement that style.

 

[roonster09]

But people here said Ole "Pundit" mates won't say anything about him in the media?

Neville is spot on, we don't play as a unit with and without possession.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

As for Gary Neville, this is probably the closest one could find of him disavowing a manager in the public arena.

Ridiculous take. Champions league 3 in a row and winning the league without Ronaldo, but let’s undermine his achievements and thank Ole for 2 champions league finishes in a row with ZERO trophies along the way.

Absolutely. Words can barely express the level of disgust I have towards people already dismissing Zidane already when they don't even try to look closely at the entire work as well as the reasons why he's out of work now. He has done about everything that was possible to succeed and to maintain a level of thirst for success over several years while the vast majority have failed at keeping players hungry for more. And all of that was done while he had to endure the most toxic environment a manager could face in the world - Real Madrid fans, Spanish media, a scumbag of a club president (Perez), etc. If anything, everything he has done at Real Madrid has given him the resume and the credentials to survive in the pressure cooker that is Manchester United. I would take Zidane in a heartbeat if he can bring first-team coaches with enough experience to give the team a structure; I wouldn't be surprised if he hires Patrice Evra to be the junior first-team coach and interpretor just like when Sir Bobby Robson found a young man named Jose Mourinho to become his interpreter at Porto.

 

[Milo2035]

you guys all know City and Chelsea and any other big clubs can play as a team because they have a proper football board with long term vision, right ?? The academy, the scouts, the first team, the football scientists... has to serve one football philosophy. It takes many years to build and City has been building it over a decade ago.
What kind of club hire Van Gaal to teach possession football then hire Mourinho to teach anti-possession football ? A joke of a club that's what. After all the protests, Ed appointed an ex-player with no experience as DOF and bought some overpriced players and you supporters are all happy. The club will fire Ole on Christmas, hire some new coach who will bring good results in first 5 games. In the summer we will buy some overpriced players again. Then the team won't perform and the new coach will share the same fate as 4 coaches before him.

 

[Presto]

you guys all know City and Chelsea and any other big clubs can play as a team because they have a proper football board with long term vision, right ?? The academy, the scouts, the first team, the football scientists... has to serve one football philosophy. It takes many years to build and City has been building it over a decade ago.
What kind of club hire Van Gaal to teach possession football then hire Mourinho to teach anti-possession football ? A joke of a club that's what. After all the protests, Ed appointed an ex-player with no experience as DOF and bought some overpriced players and you supporters are all happy. The club will fire Ole on Christmas, hire some new coach who will bring good results in first 5 games. In the summer we will buy some overpriced players again. Then the team won't perform and the new coach will share the same fate as 4 coaches before him.

So you'd rather let Ole waste this squad while waiting for building the entire football structure following a not yet identified philosophy for ages rather than appointing a decent manager that can bring success to the club?

 

[Stig]

Gary was very kind and gentle there whilst still getting his message across.

 

[Stig]

you guys all know City and Chelsea and any other big clubs can play as a team because they have a proper football board with long term vision, right ?? The academy, the scouts, the first team, the football scientists... has to serve one football philosophy. It takes many years to build and City has been building it over a decade ago.
What kind of club hire Van Gaal to teach possession football then hire Mourinho to teach anti-possession football ? A joke of a club that's what. After all the protests, Ed appointed an ex-player with no experience as DOF and bought some overpriced players and you supporters are all happy. The club will fire Ole on Christmas, hire some new coach who will bring good results in first 5 games. In the summer we will buy some overpriced players again. Then the team won't perform and the new coach will share the same fate as 4 coaches before him.

Very harsh, but very true.

 

[rollingstoned1]

I have been Ole-in and staunchly so up until now but this is the season for him to win a big title or get damn close to it to show he still deserves to be here. When it's not about individual brilliance, we are a team who are quite vulnerable to the momentum in a game which is how you can predict quite accurately what will happen and when to us. I knew we would not win the Villa game in the second half yday for this same reason.

 

[FatTails]

Wait, wasn’t it only silly football hipsters who use terms like “patterns of play”? Weird that a seasoned football professional and respected pundit is also expecting to see “patterns of play”

 

[stw2022]

This is the most damning thing. After three years you can't even discern that an attempt at playing a certain style of football is being made. Even if we were trying to implement a certain system or style of play but failed to do it well it would at least be something to work on. We could at least say: we've got a system now we need to either find the players to make that work or coach what we have until they're better at it. But there isn't even that starting point.

And that's the bit I don't understand. Surely every manager either has his ideas as to how football should be played and tries to impose that on his team or he finds a system that suits the players he has. Ole neither seems concerned with finding a system to suit the players he has (see VDB and perhaps worryingly now even Sancho already) nor does he seem particularly arsed about how we play. How can you be given the job of manager of Manchester United and not even attempt to impose your own tactical outlook?

For me the only answer is: he has no game plan. He's a nice guy who should never have been given the role full time after his 'Cheer up the Troops', Vera Lynn-style comeback special stint needed after Mourinho left.

 

[Demaw]

The thing is that Ronaldo won't play Europa (and shouldn't have to) on paper we are super strong in most areas. Nev saying there isn't a style yet is the big worry for Ole and me. Bruno did lots of individual brilliance the past two seasons that hid the cracks. De Gea, Henderson, Shaw, Maguire, Varane, Pogba, Bruno, Rash, Mason, Cavani, Ronaldo, Sancho and even Martial. Heck, that is one strong squad. The strongest in many many years since the title wins with Rooney and Ronnie etc. Kids like Hannibal and Amad coming through.
It is obvious that I mention very few midfielders and there is his problem that is going to haunt him and lose his job.

 

[roonster09]

you guys all know City and Chelsea and any other big clubs can play as a team because they have a proper football board with long term vision, right ?? The academy, the scouts, the first team, the football scientists... has to serve one football philosophy. It takes many years to build and City has been building it over a decade ago.
What kind of club hire Van Gaal to teach possession football then hire Mourinho to teach anti-possession football ? A joke of a club that's what. After all the protests, Ed appointed an ex-player with no experience as DOF and bought some overpriced players and you supporters are all happy. The club will fire Ole on Christmas, hire some new coach who will bring good results in first 5 games. In the summer we will buy some overpriced players again. Then the team won't perform and the new coach will share the same fate as 4 coaches before him.

No it won't take years to build. All it takes is hiring one good manager.

City didn't play like they do now when Mancini and Pellegrini was in charge. You need manager to implement a style, not whole club. It took Tuchel few weeks to drill is ideas. City started to play like Pep team in the first few weeks. Liverpool started with high press football in the very first game they played vs Spurs.

 

[Devil77]

Time With Cavani and Ronaldo in the team I would like to see more crosses coming it to the box.

Time to bring back Moyes?

 

[RedRonaldo]

No it won't take years to build. All it takes is hiring one good manager.

City didn't play like they do now when Mancini and Pellegrini was in charge. You need manager to implement a style, not whole club. It took Tuchel few weeks to drill is ideas. City started to play like Pep team in the first few weeks. Liverpool started with high press football in the very first game they played vs Spurs.

Exactly. Chelsea becomes a different team within few weeks after they sacked Lampard and appointed Tuchel as their manager. All we need is a good/experienced manager who is tactically competent.

 

[Demaw]

Ole was asked recently about his football philosophy. He didn't like the question and avoided it. I would have liked to hear his answer.

Utd have never been a possesion team. It was always more noticable in European games. There does seem to be a lack of a game plan now. With Cavani and Ronaldo in the team I would like to see more crosses coming it to the box.

Yes, wasn't that awkward for him. A bad moment for me as a fan and I think then knew his big picture was mainly about getting the United boys back in and creating the feelings of Fergie. That can only go so far. He is loaded with attacking talent. Cristiano won't put up with this garbage for much longer.

 

[NK86]

Notice how he's able to criticize the result without flailing his arms about in the air calling for the head of the manager.

Did you even hear this clip? He didn't just call out the result. He said even when we were winning, we won it due to moments of individual brilliance rather than through playing as a team. He even used the "patterns of play" phrase which will perhaps explode the heads of some of the Ole In crowd over here.

Point is, he will never call for his mate to be sacked in public, no matter how poorly we are doing. However, when he says that as a team we don't seem to have any playing style even after 3 years of Ole, I think it's clear as day for everyone who isn't an ostrich that he is hinting at the coaching set up/training methods not being good enough.

 

[roonster09]

Exactly. Chelsea becomes a different team within few weeks after they sacked Lampard and appointed Tuchel as their manager. All we need is a good/experienced manager who is tactically competent.

People just want to make everything look more complicated, good managers make players better than they are, which makes recruitment team look better. Likewise average managers brings the overall quality of the team down.

 

[lee82gx]

I don’t want to take it personal against Gaz, he is a fan, player, legend who loves the club and an ex-manager.
He’s literally been at every layer of football there is (maybe not football club administration).

Let’s give the commenter a pass. And consider the actual comments. Very pertinent and damning against Ole. I would say that we have a greater squad by a mile compared to the same time last season. But the struggles are similar and we are not near to an identity as 11.

I am glad my thoughts are reverberated by a pro, and this means there is nothing much we don’t know that is still going on. Another process or flow that only Ole knows is not probably there anymore.

which brings me to the point of sacking. Does ole deserve to be sacked? Maybe it’s too early in the season. But will we suddenly reach City or Liverpool levels? Nope. How long will it take with Ole if he knows how to do it? At least another season. And do I want to wager the season away while hoping it does? I already did so last season. So personally if I was at the helm, Ole is already gone. Honestly I think had we backed LvG like this we’d be champions long ago. Boring as it was.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He still can't bring himself to explicitly call Ole out though.

Yes but, for Neville, this is as damning as it gets.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He doesn't say "Manchester United is an awfully coached team".

But he does low-key say it ، or at least implies it.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

The style of play is exactly the same as it was under Mourinho. Only difference is the wide players are further up the field.

but it’s still basically get the ball into the final 3rd and hope some one can produce a moment of magic.

 

[tenpoless]

I know some of the posters who always laughed at "no style or patterns of play" usually look at Gary as the voice of reason. I wonder how they feel about it now. Its clear that we have no consistent patterns but I was too scared to say it. It was quite taboo to talk about on RedCafe.

 

[roonster09]

He doesn't say "Manchester United is an awfully coached team".

But he does low-key say it ، or at least implies it.

He said ManUtd don't play as a unit with and without ball and relies on moments to win the game, which isn't sustainable. That's as good as saying we are not coached well.

 

[roonster09]

I know some of the posters who always laughed at "no style or patterns of play" usually look at Gary as the voice of reason. I wonder how they feel about it now. Its clear that we have no consistent patterns but I was too scared to say it. It was quite taboo to talk about on RedCafe.

No, it was discussed for years. There are few who think such thing doesn't exist but it was discussed for years, especially during Jose days.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Et tu Gaz?

Now I’m truly fecked

 

[dove]

Exactly what many of us have been saying for nearly 3 years now. We have absolutely 0 chance of winning the league because we pretty much never play well for more than 20-30 mins in the match and we are never in control. We have replaced quite a lot of "deadwood" with better players but nothing really changed on the pitch, it should say all you need to know about the level of our coaching staff.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

The thing. Is the hierarchy aren’t going to change in September.
Unless they want Carrick and McKenna to be caretakers. Who knows, that might be better than what we’ve been treated to

 

[largelyworried]

The odd thing about Ole is that, despite all the positive stuff he's done with changing the culture of the club, getting rid of mercenaries and establishing a real sense of club values, the team is by far the most individualistic of the major clubs. City, Chelsea and Liverpool play as way more of a team than we do.