Mark Clattenburg

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Can’t remember which game now but I remember a few seasons ago, we were denied an absolutely nailed on pen that would’ve given us 3 pts. When Andre Marriner was questioned about it he said “I just didn’t want to be the star of the show on MOTD”. Even though it was an obvious pen, he knew he’d be grilled as the ref who giftedUnited a win.

This is basically all we get from studio analysts; highlight and create controversy.Dont worry about tactics or player performances. Not saying poor refereeing is all their fault but they sure love to stir it up and create myths and cliches... and some refs just love the attention, yet some say they try to avoid it. Whatever, media play their part in it.
 

Sandikan

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We've all seen refs give a corner, hear from the reaction it's dodgy and you're then literally waiting for the inevitable "foul" that only the ref sees in favour of the defending team.
 

Jeppers7

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I'm convinced he's not the only one. VAR has flaws but imo, it minimises bullshit like this.
I don’t think it does.....I’m convinced the game we drew with Sheffield United, had it been the other way around and we had been 2-0 up then Sheffield United went 3-2 up and we scored the equaliser they scored....it would have been disallowed I’m convinced of it. It’s still a person with emotion watching in the room, I thought it would but it doesn’t.

There’s loads as well this season just against us, Everton’s first goal, Deli Ali’s goal, penalty against city on Fred. Loads more.
 

arthurka

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How many times have you seen someone get a yellow or a red after some dubious decisions and next time something dubious happens on the other side they go to the pockets straight without hesitation. Even if you try to get it out those decisions always sit in the back of your mind.
 

Judas

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I don’t think it does.....I’m convinced the game we drew with Sheffield United, had it been the other way around and we had been 2-0 up then Sheffield United went 3-2 up and we scored the equaliser they scored....it would have been disallowed I’m convinced of it. It’s still a person with emotion watching in the room, I thought it would but it doesn’t.

There’s loads as well this season just against us, Everton’s first goal, Deli Ali’s goal, penalty against city on Fred. Loads more.
We had so many that went our way too though. We benefited from VAR just as much as it took away from us.
 

Sandikan

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We had so many that went our way too though. We benefited from VAR just as much as it took away from us.
Joking aside about Liverpool, id be amazed if any team has had more VAR calls go for them than we have.

All fairly clear calls so no bias, but we've seen countless ones go our way.
 

Jeppers7

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We had so many that went our way too though. We benefited from VAR just as much as it took away from us.
can you name some ? I remember the Maguire sending off, that was ridiculous. Aside from that I can’t think of many big calls that should have gone against us and didn’t.

I can remember loads of games that when I saw the replay, I thought great that will get overturned and they just let the goal stand. There were penalties too, one against Palace on Martial was as blatant as they come. A red card in that game also.
 

Adam-Utd

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can you name some ? I remember the Maguire sending off, that was ridiculous. Aside from that I can’t think of many big calls that should have gone against us and didn’t.

I can remember loads of games that when I saw the replay, I thought great that will get overturned and they just let the goal stand. There were penalties too, one against Palace on Martial was as blatant as they come. A red card in that game also.
Oh yeah that Martial one was infuriating! clean through on goal and rugby tackled from behind and just said to play on...

Referees being in control of VAR will never work, they just want to cover for eachother. We need a seperate VAR official supplied by Uefa/another company.
 

tenpoless

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Dunno which one is worse.

Him or Mike Dean. But both are self centered and love attention don't They?
 

harms

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Two wrongs make a right apparently.
This is the worst case of a clickbait quote. He is literally saying that it didn't influence his decision and that two wrongs don't make right in this interview, but this kind of stuff is what players believe in, so he used it to quickly shut Pepe up (which is not very easy).
 

ninjaskill

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Two wrongs make a right apparently.
Where does he say two wrongs make a right he just says he told Pepe their goal shouldn't have stood, he doesn't say that goal shouldn't have stood so I gave a penalty. Also if you watch the highlights of the match its a really blatant penalty Pepe makes a lot of contact with Torres and gets no where near the ball
 

ninjaskill

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Isn’t that literally match fixing? :houllier:
How is telling a player their goal was offside to make them stop complaining match fixing

This should be a crime. Though no money is involved.
Saying something to a player after a correctly awarded penalty so they stop complaining should be a crime?

Have either of you seen the foul for the penalty, it's a very clear penalty
 

ninjaskill

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Are you trying to be funny?
He told Pepe Real Madrids goal shouldn't have counted after being questioned over a correct penalty decision, I'm not a lawyer but I don't see how that is vaguely close to a crime or why it should be
 

RedDevil@84

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He told Pepe Real Madrids goal shouldn't have counted after being questioned over a correct penalty decision, I'm not a lawyer but I don't see how that is vaguely close to a crime or why it should be
No one was talking anything about what Clattenburg told anyone, until you brought that up.
It doesn't matter what you or I think about the decision. Here is a ref who was convinced that it was not a penalty, but gave it because he wanted to drive the game in a certain way.
 

Sandikan

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He told Pepe Real Madrids goal shouldn't have counted after being questioned over a correct penalty decision, I'm not a lawyer but I don't see how that is vaguely close to a crime or why it should be
Is the story not that it WASN'T a pen, but the ref decided to give it to correct his earlier mistake?

Sounds very shady, and a bizarre thing to admit now and tarnish what a lot would say was a great career.
 

Jimmy Skitz

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Is the story not that it WASN'T a pen, but the ref decided to give it to correct his earlier mistake?

Sounds very shady, and a bizarre thing to admit now and tarnish what a lot would say was a great career.
no its that when Pepe complained he told him their goals shouldn't have stood
 

Sandikan

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no its that when Pepe complained he told him their goals shouldn't have stood
Yeah i'm wrong looking at it properly.

While he perhaps shouldn't have known it wasn't a goal earlier, and probably shouldn't have said it to the player, as long as it WAS a pen, then it's a non story really.
 

P-Ro

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When I think of this chump I just remember that carcrash performance against you at the Bridge. At 2-2 the twat gives a straight red to Ivanovic for an Ashley Young dive and then sends off Torres for diving when he was taken out by Evans and through on goal. I was genuinely angry when the whole alleged racism debacle happened because it completely overshadowed that shit show of a performance. How Ramires could adjudge that Clattenberg used racist language when he could barely speak a word of English himself was plain stupid.

Edit. Found the highlights.
 

TheReligion

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When I think of this chump I just remember that carcrash performance against you at the Bridge. At 2-2 the twat gives a straight red to Ivanovic for an Ashley Young dive and then sends off Torres for diving when he was taken out by Evans and through on goal. I was genuinely angry when the whole alleged racism debacle happened because it completely overshadowed that shit show of a performance. How Ramires could adjudge that Clattenberg used racist language when he could barely speak a word of English himself was plain stupid.

Edit. Found the highlights.
No quite how I remember that one..

Ivanovic ran across Young and caught his leg and Torres was probably unlucky to be booked but certainly wasnt cleaned out and waited a few seconds to go down (nor was he clean through on goal). The biggest mistake was Hernandez being offside for the winner.
 

The Original

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No one was talking anything about what Clattenburg told anyone, until you brought that up.
It doesn't matter what you or I think about the decision. Here is a ref who was convinced that it was not a penalty, but gave it because he wanted to drive the game in a certain way.
Are you talking about the Real - Athletico final or another game?

As that never happened in the Real-Athletico game.
 

Shane88

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Got a book out, some quotes from Reddit...

Mark Clattenburg says he has no regrets about retiring as one of the world’s leading referees at just 41 and, if he did, they would probably have been banished by officiating the Soccer Aid game in Manchester earlier this month.

“What a shit ref” and “can’t even ref a charity match well” were, he says, part of the usual barrage on social media even for a fund-raising kickaround involving Lee Mack and Olly Murs. He still sees regular internet accusations of being racist that linger nine years later from a groundless, but hugely damaging, allegation made by Chelsea.

“Why do I want to put myself and family through that any more?” he says. “So, yes, I could have carried on but 13 years is a long time to stay physically and mentally right.”
You never do get used to life as a human punch bag, which is also evident from Clattenburg’s score-settling autobiography published this week — it joins the canon of peculiarly entertaining referees’ memoirs.

Derided as useless bastards for most of their working lives with no right of reply, our most high-profile officials struggle to resist either a fanciful ego-driven reworking of their importance (Graham Poll, Jeff Winter and Mark Halsey spring to mind) or, in the case of Clattenburg, the chance to vent, most notably about his own profession. Is it possible that the worst stick referees endure is actually from each other?

Clattenburg’s loathing of Mike Riley, head of PGMOL, is nakedly personal. Riley is called “snide” and “a boring f*r”; *David Elleray, technical director of IFAB, is “slippery, a sly toff”; Martin Atkinson is a capable referee but “a square”, “boring company” and “bitter”.

Mike Dean is apparently among the good guys, but today’s officials include “a bunch of weirdos half the time” who work in “a world of former public schoolboys, geeks and back-stabbing bullies”.

Even the amiable Howard Webb gets it. Webb was one of Clattenburg’s mates until Euro 2016 when Webb failed to invite his assistant to a BBC drinks party.

“For all the good decisions he made during his career on the pitch. I thought he made a poor one that night. It perhaps betrayed the type of person he really was,” Clattenburg writes.
They say you need a thick skin to be a referee, and that’s just to withstand the gossip at the Christmas party.

It is, Clattenburg acknowledges, an industry “plagued by in-fighting and bitching on the inside” and he offers his own interpretation.

“Maybe it was the type of personality the profession attracts, those who are drawn to it by a want for authority and status . . . climbers, out for themselves and happy to see others kicked down the ladder along the way.”

Reach the top and, of course, there are extraordinary moments, too. Chatting from Greece, where he works with Uefa to improve refereeing standards, Clattenburg says he does feel the occasional pang for the Champions League anthem, smelling the grass, sensing the grand occasion, and for sharing a stage with Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.

Yet the more high-profile games, the more he felt judged. Hence the desire to have his say in print after years of being buttoned up by PGMOL, the organisation that was paying him up to £130,000 including bonuses.

“I detested them,” he writes. “It felt like a religious cult at times.”

He wanted to talk while he was in the role but says he was not allowed to under a controlling approach.

“Most referees were very frustrated that they couldn’t get their side across,” he says. “For years, I wasn’t allowed to speak. They didn’t want you to speak.”
Riley is praised for building a professional business, and for allowing a touch more openness recently, but Clattenburg believes that there is a deliberate policy of not allowing anyone to become the leader. Anthony Taylor and Michael Oliver are the best but the group has “never been weaker”, he insists, lacking a Poll, Webb or, indeed, a Clattenburg.

He rules out ever running PGMOL — his book should see to that — but is plain about the changes he would make. Clattenburg believes the painstaking method of assessing referees’ performances — with every decision scrutinised and marked — fails to recognise that matches need to be officiated on feel and experience.

“Mike Riley has kept with this method; one point for a throw-in you get correct. But refereeing isn’t scientific. Often when I refereed a big game and everyone said I had done well, my mark was really low. Other games when I thought I was a disaster I would get 100 percent. It didn’t make sense.”

To illustrate the point, he recalls giving Blackburn Rovers a play-on advantage only to hear Sam Allardyce berate him from the sidelines.

“Sam was screaming for a free kick so Paul Robinson could launch it into the penalty area,” he says. “Refereeing has to adapt to how teams want to play and their tactics.”
Instead of computer systems, he would have more mentors.

“Ex-referees, they leave the group. They don’t pass on the experience. Phil Dowd, Mark Halsey, Graham Poll, Graham Barber, Jeff Winter. Sometimes you need a father figure. It can be very lonely and sometimes you need a support network.”

Clattenburg would refuse to do the marking system. Unsurprisingly it was one of the reasons for difficulties.

“I believe I was well accepted on the field of play but not by the bosses,” he says. “It’s not easy when people don’t want you to succeed so there’s great satisfaction that I achieved things, including all the finals, not needing the help and support of David Elleray and Mike Riley.”
Clattenburg thinks he was seen as a bit of a maverick, too individual.

“Maybe because I was different,” he says. “I didn’t always look like a referee.”

He famously had his tattoos including the Champions League trophy and Euro 2016 logo to mark the career high points of taking both finals, and a hair weave after spotting on television that he was thinning on top.

“It was the best thing I ever did. Many people get it done but in refereeing people frown at anyone doing anything different. Your tie has to be the right length, your shoes have to be right, an old-school mentality.

[Pierluigi] Collina, the best referee in the world, had tattoos. But there seems to be an English thing dictating how you should be. I was called vain, a disgrace. Why shouldn’t a referee have a nose piercing if they want? You are in the public eye and people assume they can criticise you.”

Clattenburg thinks it would help perceptions if referees were allowed to explain their decisions after matches and for communication with VAR, which he supports, providing referees do not become overly reliant on it, to be available for broadcast.

“Even though people will still say it’s wrong in their opinion, at least they have the thought process and why you made a decision. It might just stop some frustrations. We are in a transparent world. We don’t have to hide any more.”

Clattenburg hopes his book explains the stresses of a job that wore him down to the point that he lost it one day with José Mourinho who, as manager of Manchester United, complained about a decision at Stoke City. Clattenburg threw a boot at the wall and shouted at Mourinho to get out. He went home and thought:

“You know what. I can’t be bothered with idiots like that any more.”

He had come a long way from the bullied child — refereeing was seemingly his own quest for authority — who started out in the Sunday league games of the North East. The recipient of the first red card he showed in the Morpeth Sunday League threatened to break his legs. Clattenburg scarpered at the final whistle rather than wait for his money.

“Many of the young referees come through academy football which I think is the right way,” he says. “They can grow with the players. They aren’t exposed to Sunday morning football which can get out of hand.”

Reaching the top meant engaging with Jürgen Klopp — “brilliant manager, sour loser, strange bloke” — and standing up to Sir Alex Ferguson and having to prove his innocence when Chelsea made that racism allegation in 2012, which was dismissed after weeks of investigation and upsetting scrutiny. Clattenburg left the Premier League in 2017 feeling he had endured enough, though a tax-free salary of £525,000 from Saudi Arabia also had something to do with it.

At 46, he says that he wants to keep working abroad before retiring to Spain. There is “too much stress” around the profession in England. An industry under constant siege might feel like Clattenburg has not exactly helped.
Fancies himself rotten but he doesn't like Atkinson so maybe he's not all bad.
 

big rons sovereign

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Got a book out, some quotes from Reddit...



Fancies himself rotten but he doesn't like Atkinson so maybe he's not all bad.
He's a twat and will never be forgiven for the bullshit he pulled at Leicester.
Oh and giving the vermin 3 pens at OT.
May he live in interesting times.....
 

RedDevil@84

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Got a book out, some quotes from Reddit...



Fancies himself rotten but he doesn't like Atkinson so maybe he's not all bad.
The fecker accepted that he let Spurs players take out Chelsea players in that stupid game because he had some kind of beautiful picture of how the game should go in his mind, and he wanted to see it implemented.
Should have been banned and shamed, even though he was retired.
 

kouroux

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He seems to have a very high opinion of himself. I kinda agree with the part about VAR and refs needing to communicate with the audience/spectators.
 

Ludens the Red

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When I think of this chump I just remember that carcrash performance against you at the Bridge. At 2-2 the twat gives a straight red to Ivanovic for an Ashley Young dive and then sends off Torres for diving when he was taken out by Evans and through on goal. I was genuinely angry when the whole alleged racism debacle happened because it completely overshadowed that shit show of a performance. How Ramires could adjudge that Clattenberg used racist language when he could barely speak a word of English himself was plain stupid.

Edit. Found the highlights.
Several months late but “Ashley Young dive” :lol: . Most blatant red card last man foul you’ll ever see.
 

Jimmy Skitz

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He makes good points about Riley and PGMOL, if refs want to explain their decisions let them …
 

EtH

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This just gives weight to the feeling I have that all referees are bloody in love with themselves.

What a weird lot.
 

Ludens the Red

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Get your eyes examined.
I think you might need to. I can’t imagine you’ve watched that match back all that much because you got beat. But I certainly have (it’s regularly on sky sports)
I assure you it was the clearest red you’ll ever seen.
Young through on goal, last man Ivanovic chasing back albeit accidentally trips his leg up. That is literally the definition of a stone wall red card.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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When I think of this chump I just remember that carcrash performance against you at the Bridge. At 2-2 the twat gives a straight red to Ivanovic for an Ashley Young dive and then sends off Torres for diving when he was taken out by Evans and through on goal. I was genuinely angry when the whole alleged racism debacle happened because it completely overshadowed that shit show of a performance. How Ramires could adjudge that Clattenberg used racist language when he could barely speak a word of English himself was plain stupid.

Edit. Found the highlights.
Payback for years of us getting fecked over at Stamford Bridge.

Usually with your best pal Martin Atkinson as ref.
 

P-Ro

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I think you might need to. I can’t imagine you’ve watched that match back all that much because you got beat. But I certainly have (it’s regularly on sky sports)
I assure you it was the clearest red you’ll ever seen.
Young through on goal, last man Ivanovic chasing back albeit accidentally trips his leg up. That is literally the definition of a stone wall red card.
The link to the highlights are on this page. Ashley young gets breathed on and does a Tom Daley. No push/shove to the back, no swing of the legs. He just falls over when Ivanovic gets close enough to him.
 

Deery

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Mark Clattenburg was on BBC Breakfast the other day and they had a full montage to him like a YouTube video about his referring, it was so cringe :lol:


Also he’s plugging a book so this is probably just for some exposure.