How do we solve our midfield problem?

Kostov

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Fist of all, we need better midfielders, secondly we need a better manager probably. We don't have a single capable week to week CDM, yet there are fans talking about how it won't work because of Pogba and Bruno.
 

HBFSTR00

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We can sign 100 midfielders but we need the coaching to be right to make it work.
 

patter

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This season:

--------------- Bruno ------------------
-------- VDB ----- Mctominay ---

We buy VDB for improve our midfield !
 

Van Piorsing

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At this moment nothing can be done apart from actual improvement of what we currently possess inside training grounds and then on the pitch.

Donny didn't come here to revolt against shit football, he's a backup plan in case Pogba & Bruno are injured / suspended and it's looking more obvious, every time camera pointing on our bench.

Some brilliant chess move and change of formation will still put to a test same players with same detriments, still something must happen or be adjusted so our season finally can kick off.
 

RumHam

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For me its designing a system and approach, with players coming secondary. Are we a team that plays 4231, with wide forwards? If so, we need to stick with Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford etc for those positions and stop trying to shoehorn Pogba in on the left. Pogba being dropped would be better for him too, he plays better when he's got something to prove. Until we know what formation or system we're looking to play, its difficult to pick the players.

Then in CM, do we have one that sits and the no 8 and 10 are up and down? or is the 8 designed to sit deep as well?

We need to get the system defined and structured before we look at personnel imo.
This is the crux and all roads lead to Pogba not fitting in.

Despite what we endlessly hear about style of play etc... for me we do have a clear structure / approach but it isn't being implemented well at all at the moment, primarily down to over-committing players forward. But also partially down to individuals (such as Dalot on Weds), partially down to good quality from the opposition (Traore and ASM were perfect for the counter-attack against our high-press) and partially down to poor implementation (which you could say is coaching) such as the forwards pressing but the 6/8 sitting off allowing for an easy route out of the forwards press.

Apart from Wednesday when there was an obvious change in system / approach, we clearly play with a double-pivot but with both DMs encouraged to join the attack, I prefer Wednesday's approach with a genuine DM (though that definitely isn't McT as he gets dragged out of position too easily) and an 8 given more of a licence. In theory the 8 should be Pogba but he can't cut-it doing this role in the PL, he's caught on the ball far too often and doesn't have the defensive instincts to stop danger.

Problem here is personnel, can Fred play as a DM? I think he could but he makes too many stupid errors to trust with and without the ball and i think everyone agrees we could upgrade here. I don't think Matic is mobile enough either. As an 8 that leaves Pogba/McT and DVB, not ideal but Donny deserves a stint (not just one game or half ffs) to see if he can do it, McT can look great one week and then average for the next three, he really needs to up his consistency to be a regular starter.

If we want to carry on with the two 8s like we have been I would also get AWB to play more conservatively, he contributes relatively little as an attacking force and this is completely undermined by how often we get caught in behind the right-back. Give the onus on McT (or whomever) to create the overlap for Greenwood.
 

gerdm07

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Maybe a 4-4-1-1, something SAF loved.

.............................Ronaldo/Cavani
.....................................Bruno
Rash/Sanc....Pogba/McT.....DvB/Fred.....Green/Sanc
Shaw..............Maguire..........Varane........AWB

Let's just attack and let our high price defense defend. Shaw and AWB should not go forward much in this setup. I think we would win many matches 4-2, 3-1 and lose a few 3-4, 2-3, but hey, it's better than winning or losing 1-0.

McFred has run it's course as I think many teams have learned how to exploit.
 

Kaizane

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Ole needs to change something and fast. Bruno deeper in midfield in my opinion is a viable option, he played there regularly for Sporting. His tenacity alone would mean we might gain a little more control of the midfield but he'd have to take better care of the ball. He's a decent short passer and an even better long passer. In his place in front of him, Sancho is a capable alternative, where he sometimes played for Dortmund with movement all around him, instead of being isolated on the wings and expected to beat a double press. It's two birds with one stone for me. It provides a better platform for Sancho to find his feet, while potentially getting a better grip of midfield with Bruno's ability to get a foot in and pass, without having to rip up the formation of the whole team.

Ronaldo/Cavani

Rashford/Pogba---Sancho/Lingard---Greenwood/Amad

Bruno/VDB---McT/Fred/Matic

Shaw--Maguire--Varane--AWB
 

Zoo

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Use Matic as much as possible until January then try and get someone.
 

OhGee

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What midfield problem? Ole does not seem to think we have one…
 

wolvored

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Honestly, I'm beginning to believe that the only way United's Midfield becomes top drawer is to reach the Summer, Mata & Matic retire, Donny is sold, Pogba leaves on a Freebie, and a new manager comes in along with three top quality MFs and ditches McFred.
Well said. I would hope they sell mcfred as well. Neither should be starting for one of the biggest clubs in the world.
 

FatTails

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Mad thing is it's not even the first time I've seen it suggested. The idea of playing two of the most promising young forwards in the game as wingbacks is interesting to put it politely.
That is an interesting way of saying batshit fecking crazy.
 

elmo

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Might be a crazy idea, but play Telles at LB and have Shaw playing at DM. We've seen him shift to the centre to provide coverage in games, he's a far better passer than McFred and he has already proved that he's one of the best creative outlet in our team when he's on form.

Would honestly like Ole to try out VDB and Shaw in midfield because both of them are great at passing the ball off quickly and making off ball runs to get the ball back which we've been missing in our midfield.

Anything is better than watching Scott do his hiding from the ball and Fred being forced to pass back to the defenders because he can't pick out Bruno.
 

MadDogg

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Our midfield has been a mess since Pogba came. It won't get rebuild while he is here.
That's a bit harsh. Pogba absolutely has a place in a well balanced midfield. We've just spent the vast majority of his time here trying to pigeon hole him in a different position than what he should be playing. It's understandable now that we have Bruno, but it still blows my mind we wasted the first three and a half seasons of Pogba's time here.
 

Chicharo

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I am simply flabbergasted that people here want Pogba to be sold
Our performances, by a country mile were the best in January, when Bruno just couldn't do a miracle every day. Then Pogba got injured and, well,....
Yes, get rid of Pogba, why not Ronaldo as well
 

UpWithRivers

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Everyone thinks Ole has a good record against the top teams but that's a belief from 2 seasons ago. Last year it was crap. We need to go back to the same format we used to. McFred, sit back and fast counter.
The other games we play Matic + Pogba or Matic + DVB or even Matic + DVB + Pogba
 

captaincantona

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We play with Bruno as a very advanced and very undisciplined 10. Hard to expand on that because he genuinely pops up everywhere. He is a risk reward player and in this team we can’t afford to be shackling him. But it then means that should one of our two deeper sitting midfielders venture forward, or try to press high, our second one is left minding the house and this doesn’t seem to happen with any great fluidity. We leave huge gaps that are played through quite easily. This doesn’t happen when we are in a counterattack setup cause our midfield two just sit. We look more secure.

This Double Pivot lark...worked back in the day when Midfield was less packed and you had 2 good players in the centre of the park for starters, brave and capable of getting on the ball and dictating. No matter what Ole wants to play like, with “good old fashioned midfielders like Keane in his day” We don’t have those players so shouldn’t be trying to play that way. You didn’t see Pep playing long balls into Aguero or Messi to get on the end of! You didn’t see Allerdyce playing intricate triangles with Kevin Nolan! So why try play a double pivot with two players that do not have the qualities required?

Ole said Varane would help us move to a more attacking 4-3-3 presumably with a disciplined 6, an 8 and a 10. Well that dream didn’t last too long!

It’s gonna be a next season fix for me. Get rid of Pogba who imo can’t play in a two of Bruno is given that much freedom. Get in Bissouma and Neves. PL proven so no 1 year adaptation period that Ole likes! Won’t set the world alight but at least we would have square pegs for the square holes.
 

AjaxCunian

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Hey ajax guys, how yould you describe Gravenberch?
Haven't read the thread but he is not the guy that would make our midfield work. Don't think he is at that level yet, but would be a better fit than Pogba. He is more disciplined than Pogba, whilst being a very similar player. However PL level, in a pivot role, we would still need another player if United were to go for him.

He is inbetween Frenkie and Pogba I'd say, a box to box midfielder who can also dictate play from deep. Not shy to work hard, very press resistant, great dribbler and good short passer, has some long-range shooting, very silky and elegant on the ball. Especially around his debut he used to carry the ball a bit too much, but I think he keeps it much more simple now.
 

Raven

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Fred and Donny in the short term, a new midfielder in the medium to long term.
 

Adebisi's Hat

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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this but Phil Jones at CDM has got to be a option to throw out on the table, it's a bit left field but it's an option that should at least be discussed. He did a job there for SAF. We would workm off the assumption he can stay fit.
 

Jeppers7

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I’m at the point of thinking we could buy Kante and Varatti and it would make no difference. We have no system
 

PizzaPlanet

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Fred and VdB.
Matic and VdB.

I'd also like to see VdB - Fernandes in the pivot with Pogba as the most advanced midfielder against some of the lesser teams in the league. Preferably with a fast runner like Elanga or Rashford out on the wing to provide som dynamism.
 

Foxbatt

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Maybe do what the two Owens say? Don't get the two full backs as wingers. Let them defend first. Hargreaves said SAF would kill him if he goes marauding forward all the time and keeps getting caught up and leaving the midfield out numbered.
 

NewYorkRed

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You know I’ve been critical of Ole recently, and I stand by that; don’t think he’s good enough. But. If you sign Cristiano Ronaldo when he’s 36, you’re obviously in win now mode. Makes you wonder, why in the world did we not sign a MF? We know the club wanted one, and I understand we don’t have unlimited funds. But when you get a Lebron, Brady, Ronaldo or Messi- you should be going all in. PSG looked weak at LB, and went out and got one even after signing Messi.
 

The Plump Poet

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You know I’ve been critical of Ole recently, and I stand by that; don’t think he’s good enough. But. If you sign Cristiano Ronaldo when he’s 36, you’re obviously in win now mode. Makes you wonder, why in the world did we not sign a MF? We know the club wanted one, and I understand we don’t have unlimited funds. But when you get a Lebron, Brady, Ronaldo or Messi- you should be going all in. PSG looked weak at LB, and went out and got one even after signing Messi.
"Win now mode"? This isn't the NFL.
 

NewYorkRed

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"Win now mode"? This isn't the NFL.
What, just because I’m American you’re making that comparison? Feck off you idiot. What does this have to do with the NFL? We’re obviously trying to win now. Why did we sign Ronaldo, for a 5 year project? What an idiot.
 

Kag

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We need someone who can dictate the play, far more than we need someone who breaks up opponent play. That's why Neves would be my choice.
We need one of both. You can see from this game alone just how much we struggle when opposition midfield asserts itself.
 

The Plump Poet

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What, just because I’m American you’re making that comparison? Feck off you idiot. What does this have to do with the NFL? We’re obviously trying to win now. Why did we sign Ronaldo, for a 5 year project? What an idiot.
The terminology feck all sense. There is no breaking down your team to get better in a few years time. You are Manchester United - you are ALWAYS in "win now mode". You have been EVERY SINGLE SEASON since probably the 1970s.
 

NewYorkRed

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The terminology feck all sense. There is no breaking down your team to get better in a few years time. You are Manchester United - you are ALWAYS in "win now mode". You have been EVERY SINGLE SEASON since probably the 1970s.
You might be the dumbest person alive. You made a stupid post, just jog on. We’re always in win now mode? Ask the 1000000 United fans here if we haven’t been in a rebuild over the past 3 years? You’re an absolute joke kid. This is my last allowed post, and I can’t believe I wasted two of them on a joker like yourself.
 

RedorDead21

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We need one of both. You can see from this game alone just how much we struggle when opposition midfield asserts itself.
agreed opposition teams have a run on our defence usually within 3 passes or 60 secs of possession. Makes no sense when we have 2 sitting mids as well.
 

dannyrhinos89

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What, just because I’m American you’re making that comparison? Feck off you idiot. What does this have to do with the NFL? We’re obviously trying to win now. Why did we sign Ronaldo, for a 5 year project? What an idiot.

It's a strange choice we didnt go all our for a DM it would be the final piece of the team.

I think we could only go on and sign one through selling though. We got rid of James which was good business but nobody else left. Hopefully in January we make a couple of sales and will make a move for a def mid.
 

Roboc7

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We need two new players, Mcfred aren’t good enough and never will be and Ole doesn’t want to play anyone else there.
 

SoCross

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When McFred play well, we win games. But they don’t play well enough consistently enough or not enough to win championships.
 

sugar_kane

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I’m not one of these DVB psychotics, but if we’re to drop anyone for him it would be McTominay not Fred for me.

Fred is calamitous at times but Scott is gutless.