Why are United fans so oblivious to importance of good managers?

Jippy

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What a condescending load of shit OP and I can only try and imagine why you looked at the forum and felt it really needed another Ole thread.
 

FatTails

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exactly that’s why I said replacing ole with ole.
Come on. Let’s say we sack Ole right now and hire Conte/Enrique/Ten Hag/Potter, and both Ole and Zidane are available, who do you think will be after the services of each?

I imagine Zidane would be offered most big jobs around the world, and I honestly struggle to think of a PL club who would take Ole. Clubs doing badly like Norwich would look at his time at Cardiff and not be impressed. Bigger clubs would look at his time at United and won’t be that impressed either.

You’re comparing someone who has won nothing of note with Zidane who has two La Liga titles and three CL titles to his name.You can’t fluke your way as a manager to 5 major titles in 4 years, no matter how good your squad is.
 

Colin Clarke

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While I do believe Ole Gunnar Solskjaer in NOT good enough to bring success back to United there is little or no point sacking him at the moment because the problems within United go much further than him. If we sack Ole who picks his replacement? Is it Woodward who appointed Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole ( assuming Moyes was picked before David Gill retired) not exactly a great track record, or will it be Murtough and Fletcher who both lacked the guts to push Ole into signing a decent CDM to solve a vital midfield position before lesser ones like right wing and center forward. This club, United need total restructuring of the football side, with people who know and understand the game not yes men trying to keep their bonuses. At the moment I am not convinced that those who would be given the task of picking the next manager are up to the job. If they where put in a pit full of oranges they would still pick a lemon. Let's cure the cancer before treating the symptoms
 

MuFc_1992

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No they were not. They were hailed as the second coming at the time and destined to bring us greatness when they were first appointed.
By our fanbase but their last club stints would've suggested otherwise. Also, Jose's subsequent failure with Tottenham also suggests he was past it when we got him. Football tactics and management has evolved post pep and Klopp so, both of them were dianosours when we got them.
 

Bondi77

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It has always irked me that some United fans refuse to believe that managers have levels just like players and you simply can't win with average manager who has no plan and tactical nous. We've seen the likes of Klopp, Pep etc. build teams that play identically dominating brands of football across multiple leagues. It's as if they have some sort of formula, a secret recipe that if given time and adequate resources will definitely result in successful teams that dominate games and win silverware. Why are some United fans and the board completely oblivious to this?
So I take it you were happy when we had LVG and Jose in charge at Utd as they would have the credentials you speak of?
 

MuFc_1992

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So I take it you were happy when we had LVG and Jose in charge at Utd as they would have the credentials you speak of?
Nope, I was happy with LVG appointment but wanted him gone after his second season and never wanted Jose because he played defensive football, same reason I don't want Conte now but would be okay with Rose or even Potter who has zero credentials compared to likes of LVG and Jose. I believe football tactics and managers become outdated after a while so, we should be looking at someone who plays modern attacking style of football. There is a place for defensive managers like Jose, Rafa and Conte but putting them in charge of good squad assembled at high cost like ours is a bit of a waste.
 

croadyman

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Only when Ole is in charge, it this was any regular manager we wouldn't be supporting.

It's a romantic thing that's drowning us.
Like I have said many times since he got the job on a permanent basis too many are so misty eyed and sentimental
 

croadyman

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Remember when Moyes turned a squad of title winners into losing to Everton?
That was down to the manager. But Ole's song is still sung loudly. Because he has a special connection to the club. It adds to the romanticism. I don't like it personally. I see the legends and ex players as the players they were. That's why I don't care much about their managerial or punditry career. Let's not appoint any more ex player as a manager.
Yeah hearing the matchgoing fans always singing his name will just convince those yankee scumbags no need to change him
 

Red_toad

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It has always irked me that some United fans refuse to believe that managers have levels
I dunno but it annoys the shite out of me when people start threads making out like they know best and it’s a lot of other people with the problem. I hope you can back up your opinion with naming these fans who think it’s Ole all the way regardless.
 

CM21

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Why do man utd fans want to change manager after every game" is more like it.

No matter who is in charge, the same will happen. Our fans are entitled, think we should win every game 24-0.

Ole has done more than Moyes, mourinho, van gaal, but still gets slated as worse than them.

Fans literally playing FIFA in their heads..about as knowledgeable as Garth Crooks ffs
What the f*ck is this shite? Wanting to win games is entitlement?
Wanting more than 1 point from 6 at Home to Villa and Everton isn't entitlement.

Fans who can only read league position numbers talking about football knowledge. Absolute joke.
 

MuFc_1992

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I dunno but it annoys the shite out of me when people start threads making out like they know best and it’s a lot of other people with the problem. I hope you can back up your opinion with naming these fans who think it’s Ole all the way regardless.
There were people singing Oles at the wheel at the game today despite the dismal performance.
 

Bondi77

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Nope, I was happy with LVG appointment but wanted him gone after his second season and never wanted Jose because he played defensive football, same reason I don't want Conte now but would be okay with Rose or even Potter who has zero credentials compared to likes of LVG and Jose. I believe football tactics and managers become outdated after a while so, we should be looking at someone who plays modern attacking style of football. There is a place for defensive managers like Jose, Rafa and Conte but putting them in charge of good squad assembled at high cost like ours is a bit of a waste.
Hold on!
Your thread is about coaches that have won multiple trophies in different leagues and yet you say you would be happy with Rose or Potter?
WTF have they won?
 

LawmanMan

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Common knowledge Fergie would have preferred Klopp or Pep or even Jose to Moyes.

Moyes was literally 4th choice. Fergie's little soundbite about standing by the new manager was probably partly because he didn't have all that much faith himself.
After the fact revisionism. Fergie knew for years he wanted Moyes to be his successor, as he saw much of himself in Moyes. He literally acted as a mentor throughout most of his career.

He may have half-heartedly 'tried' to get other candidates, but Fergie knew fine well that Moyes would be the only man in a position to take up his offer. Hell, he told Moyes not to renew his contract at Everton, and the reason for this seems rather obvious.

No doubt Fergie wanted to help Moyes the same way Jock Stein had helped him as a young manager.
 

MuFc_1992

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Hold on!
Your thread is about coaches that have won multiple trophies in different leagues and yet you say you would be happy with Rose or Potter?
WTF have they won?
No my thread is about footballing philosophy and tactics.
 

Bobcat

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Because we don't know what its like to be successful while hiring and sacking managers, so United fans are terrified to sack the one manager that has been the best since Fergie.
Also If we sack Ole people fear we will hire the wrong manager and the worst will happen because we've experienced the this more than once already. Our worst = No top 4 and building a shit squad.

What we need to do is put ourselves in a position where hiring the wrong manager and the worst happening is actually still a decent season. For example if Madrid hires the worst manager they could possibly get they will still make top 4 and pass the group stages of CL and the most important thing is their squad will still be strong for the next manager to come and turn things around.

I think that is the problem and why we fear a manager merry go round. United fans from experience dont have that assurance like Madrid does that even if they hire the worst manager they will still make top 4 and the squad will still be strong for the next manager to come in and turn things around quickly.
Spot on, Madrid have such a big advantage over everyone else in that league (except Barca of course) they could probably hire a monkey in a suit and they would still make top 4 where as recent history has shown, us missing out on CL is a very real possibility with the wrong manager.

Its also worth remembering, the PL right now might be as competetive as its ever been, with the two best managers in the world leading our biggest rivals and then Chelsea having arguably the 3rd best manager in the world. Its pretty brutal tbh

Ole is good at squad building and is a good man manager, but evidently is failing badly at the coaching side of managment. This could be rectified by bringing in better coaches, but i honestly think Ole wont do that and if thats the hill he choses to die on then so be it.
 

TheRedHearted

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That appointment was the most crucial one, and we royally fecked it. Had we made a much better appointment back then, I've no doubt we would have at least another title or two, and not be in the position we are in now.
It was half the appt, half the squad. We needed to get young world class players in fergies last three years, setting up for the future. We had the pull when he was there
 

Red_toad

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There were people singing Oles at the wheel at the game today despite the dismal performance.
So that means they rate him above Pep or Klopp? Or does it mean they respect the man and all he’s done for the club? Guy is a feckin legend and fans should adore him, doesn’t mean they can’t see where he falls short as a manager.
 

Longshanks

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What the f*ck is this shite? Wanting to win games is entitlement?
Wanting more than 1 point from 6 at Home to Villa and Everton isn't entitlement.

Fans who can only read league position numbers talking about football knowledge. Absolute joke.
Thats football, you don't always win. As much as the results and performances were dissapointing. We should be winning those games no doubt but its the same every season, every club will drop points in games that they should be winning.

The league table puts us about where we should be people will argue that we haven't played anyone tough and I think its fair to say we haven't played any of our direct rivals but we haven't had many bankers either how many relegation candidates have we played? Just Newcastle i would say. West ham Everton and Aston villa will be in the hunt for Europe i would of thought and i would be surprised if wolves don't finish top 10. There isn't many easy games in this league especially against top half clubs.

Christmass is normally a good time to take stock, in or around the top spot come then were on course. If we are out of it then questions will have to be asked.
 

Kopral Jono

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I don't think our fans are oblivious. I'm confident the comfortable majority knows that Ole, whether outwardly or deep down inside, is not up to scratch and probably won't ever be. But we do have to admit that a certain demographic of our fanbase is clinging on to sentimentality so much that refusing to wake up and smelling the coffee almost becomes like an identity in and by itself.
 

Bondi77

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No my thread is about footballing philosophy and tactics.
So you are saying that Ole has been given the managerial role at arguably the biggest club in the world and and yet he has not got a good grasp on footballing philosophy or tactics?
 

dannyrhinos89

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hey Ole is a great manager he won something in the norweigan league and relegated Cardiff after spending A Fortune it’s the stuff zidane and Conte could only dream of.

If anything he’s overqualified For a club as big as united.
 

Strelok

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Because we don't know what its like to be successful while hiring and sacking managers, so United fans are terrified to sack the one manager that has been the best since Fergie.
Also If we sack Ole people fear we will hire the wrong manager and the worst will happen because we've experienced the this more than once already. Our worst = No top 4 and building a shit squad.

What we need to do is put ourselves in a position where hiring the wrong manager and the worst happening is actually still a decent season. For example if Madrid hires the worst manager they could possibly get they will still make top 4 and pass the group stages of CL and the most important thing is their squad will still be strong for the next manager to come and turn things around.

I think that is the problem and why we fear a manager merry go round. United fans from experience dont have that assurance like Madrid does that even if they hire the worst manager they will still make top 4 and the squad will still be strong for the next manager to come in and turn things around quickly.
Well said. I was of that opinion too.

We don't have a structure like Chelsea or Madrid. And I think we'll never have, at least under the Glazers. So it's a bit like a lottery for us with this I think. The only problem is the chance to hit a jackpot is like one in a million.
 

The Dane

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I think we all know Ole isn't a world class manager but because he's a legend here we want him to do well. It was the same with Lampard at Chelsea, their fans wanted him to do well. If Gerrard managed Liverpool, Liverpool fans would be as patient as ours; Arsenal fans would be the same if Henry was their manager. We aren't some unique breed of football fans desperately hoping for him to turn into a world class manager, we just want a legend to do well.

The problem is the board and their complete lack of ability to assess suitable managers. It's why we have missed out on Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Pochettino etc since Fergie retired. The board have been fecking useless in their recruitment and the time taken to sack unsuitable managers.
Couldn’t agree more. Well said.
 

Womp

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Because they're scared imo. We've been shite for so long, they get so desperate that this appointment is the right one and that we've finally got it right. Couple that with the fact that the guy is a club legend and you have the scenario we are in.
 

Leftback99

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Change 'manager' for 'midfield' in the thread title. Unfortunately that also includes Ole.
 

MuFc_1992

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It has always irked me that some United fans refuse to believe that managers have levels just like players and you simply can't win with average manager who has no plan and tactical nous. We've seen the likes of Klopp, Pep etc. build teams that play identically dominating brands of football across multiple leagues. It's as if they have some sort of formula, a secret recipe that if given time and adequate resources will definitely result in successful teams that dominate games and win silverware. Why are some United fans and the board completely oblivious to this?
So you are saying that Ole has been given the managerial role at arguably the biggest club in the world and and yet he has not got a good grasp on footballing philosophy or tactics?
Yes I am and it's not that wild of a concept as it is plainly obvious watching us play. Let me guess you are one of those posters I mentioned in the original post that say our players can't make simple passes or create meaningful chances against mid and lower mid table clubs because of one of these placeholder reasons"They don't care", "They lack passion and determination","They don't play for the badge" etc. and things like patterns of play are invented by fans who want so called hipster managers from Europe whose side play brilliant attacking football.
 

NWRed

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I never said or implied he would be a failure. I said Haaland had to move up the ladder step by step before reaching the big leagues, and this is how it should be. You don’t go straight from Molde to Man United. It doesn’t work like that.
It objectively did work like that for Solskjaer, who has done a better job than Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho (all of whom came from much better clubs with loads of experience and in 2 cases success). I'm not sure that Solskjaer is the man to take us back to the top but to use the fact he came from Molde against him, when he has outperformed managers with much more prestigious clubs on their CVs, is just searching for a stick to beat him with.
 

Bondi77

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Yes I am and it's not that wild of a concept as it is plainly obvious watching us play. Let me guess you are one of those posters I mentioned in the original post that say our players can't make simple passes or create meaningful chances against mid and lower mid table clubs because of one of these placeholder reasons"They don't care", "They lack passion and determination","They don't play for the badge" etc. and things like patterns of play are invented by fans who want so called hipster managers from Europe whose side play brilliant attacking football.
Wrong again.
You don’t finish second in the most competitive league in Europe without having some idea about tactics and if you can incorporate an attacking style and score a shitload of goals in the process because the general fan base of Manchester United demand it (maybe you just want 3pts regardless) then you are not doing too bad.
My gripe about Ole is that he is too nice with the players as a midfielder that cannot kick a ball properly and is a liability should be nowhere near the starting side and I cannot work that one out.
 

Ralph1386

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It objectively did work like that for Solskjaer, who has done a better job than Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho (all of whom came from much better clubs with loads of experience and in 2 cases success). I'm not sure that Solskjaer is the man to take us back to the top but to use the fact he came from Molde against him, when he has outperformed managers with much more prestigious clubs on their CVs, is just searching for a stick to beat him with.
I don’t want to start this debate again as it has been done a lot here, but the fact that he “outperformed” the two previous managers is debatable and subject to opinion about whether or not trophies or top 4 finishes are more important.
 

Josep Dowling

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I’m still ole in. My biggest problem is who replaces ole. I think we’d get Zidane and I really don’t rate zidane despite his impressive trophy haul. We’d essentially replace ole with ole. I don’t think Zidane is a tactical expert.
Isn’t this the big issue at the club? Making the right decision at the right time? Liverpool sacked Rodgers and hired Klopp when he was available. The obvious move was to hire Pochettino when he was left Spurs and was waiting for a call. We didn’t, and now 18 months later we are sat here with the same issues arising under Ole’s management. I can guarantee a decision won’t be made on Ole until our situation is a lot worse. It’s clear as day we have reached our peak under his management.
 

NWRed

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I don’t want to start this debate again as it has been done a lot here, but the fact that he “outperformed” the two previous managers is debatable and subject to opinion about whether or not trophies or top 4 finishes are more important.
No, it isn't.
 

lilcurt

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No, it isn't.
While I think Ole has outperformed them. They are all a bad bunch. And, it is debatable because the records books care about success, not whether you finished 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Ole hasn't won any trophies despite having a vastly superior squad from the start of last season.
 

MuFc_1992

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Wrong again.
You don’t finish second in the most competitive league in Europe without having some idea about tactics and if you can incorporate an attacking style and score a shitload of goals in the process because the general fan base of Manchester United demand it (maybe you just want 3pts regardless) then you are not doing too bad.
My gripe about Ole is that he is too nice with the players as a midfielder that cannot kick a ball properly and is a liability should be nowhere near the starting side and I cannot work that one out.
Second miles behind first with other rivals having injury issues and in Chelsea's case also having poor manager for a large part of the season. Also, I give you that Ole, Carrick and McKenna might have some rudimentary understanding of footballing tactics but so would any intelligent player who's been involved in the game for so long. I'm not saying he's Ted Lasso but the quality gap between him and the likes of Pep, Klopp etc. is massive and there are plenty of managers who are better than Ole out there, managers with plans regarding how to play matches, conduct training sessions and building teams with identity. When I see us play I see a bunch of players who go out there to do their own thing and hope for the best, sorta like an international team. I'm a bit curious regarding why you think we're so average against against teams we should be blowing away on Paper? Everton the other day were missing a lot of key players but still went toe to toe with us and could've easily walked away with all 3 points. Whenever City and Liverpool drop points, there is mostly some sort of luck at play on other teams behalf but with us most games are 50/50.
 

Litch

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Wrong again.
You don’t finish second in the most competitive league in Europe without having some idea about tactics and if you can incorporate an attacking style and score a shitload of goals in the process because the general fan base of Manchester United demand it (maybe you just want 3pts regardless) then you are not doing too bad.
My gripe about Ole is that he is too nice with the players as a midfielder that cannot kick a ball properly and is a liability should be nowhere near the starting side and I cannot work that one out.
You don't finish second in the league playing with midfield players who cannot kick a ball properly or a liability either?
 

laughtersassassin

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I think United fans stupidly feel if you think the manager or coaching isn't good enough then you are not a "Good" supporter.

But in fact that couldn't be further from the truth. I want Ole to do well but I'm not afraid to call it how it is and say that I really don't think he is good enough.

As long as he is here I want him to win but if we replace him I won't be upset because he is only still in the job because he is a club legend. Which is not a good reason to hire someone.