Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
League is a far better measure of performance than an odd FA Cup or League Cup win. They failed to re-establish us as a top 4 club with each of them taking us into top 4 just once while we have got there in both his full seasons and nearly made it in his first from a dreadful position Mourinho had left us in at the time.

While I would like him replaced, people who are revising history to make Moyes/LVG/Mourinho look better appointments are just silly.
I am not saying LVG/Mourinho were better appointments because it was just dire during their era and we were mostly crap. So I am not trying to revise history here.

League is a far better measure I agree. But then if you look at points which I think is the measure to look for, we are doing exactly the same as we did with LVG and Jose. Only difference is that for example 69 points in Jose's season took us to 6th while 66 points got us 3rd a couple season ago with Ole. We are still struggling a lot in the league and are on track of our typical points tally this season too. Ole's "re-establishing" us as a top 4 is a direct consequence of Arsenal/Spurs doing a lot worse than they did in previous years rather than us being better.
 

passtheball

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Messages
172
We're still ok on points for now, let's see what happens over the next month. We've had horrible runs of form before under Ole and managed to turn it around.

Talk of sacking him now is premature, the season has barely started
We did not. We finished a distant second.

Turning it around, as per the standards of the club, would be to win the league. And under Ole we are as far from that as we have ever been.

Oh, and 7 games is almost 20% of the season.
 

Bobcat

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
6,388
Location
Behind the curtains, leering at the neighbors
We're still ok on points for now, let's see what happens over the next month. We've had horrible runs of form before under Ole and managed to turn it around.

Talk of sacking him now is premature, the season has barely started
While i'd normally agree, these spells of horrible form and even worse performances cant keep happening if we ever plan on winning the league.

Hopefully we go on a great run after the break, but if this poor form continues then we should start looking at other options
 

James Peril

New Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
3,576
Our fixture list is brutal now


I expect us to be 7-10 points off the top at the end of this. Ole usually does well against big opposition so we might do better but at the end of November we could be effectively out of PL race.
Ah, the old myth is still alive and kicking. Did you even check or remember the corresponding fixtures from last season? We won one of these games last season.
 

GMoore23

Full Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
3,525
Can't understand the decision to rest Ronaldo yesterday.
We don't play again for 2 weeks so just play him and win the damn game.
 

marcus agrippa

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
7,496
Location
"Clattenburg!- Jesus God!" - SAF
Ah, the old myth is still alive and kicking. Did you even check or remember the corresponding fixtures from last season? We won one of these games last season.
Yep.

Leicester (A) : 2-2 (D)
Liverpool (H): 2-4 (L)
Spurs (A): 3-1 (W)
Man City (H): 0-0 (D)
Chelsea (A): 0-0 (D)
Arsenal (H): 0-1 (L)

So 6 out of 18 available last season.

I think people are still mistaken because of the 2019/20 season (Ole's first full season), before other managers and coaches hadn't yet worked us out, when the results were:

Leicester (A) : 2-0 (W)
Liverpool (H): 1-1 (D)
Spurs (A): 1-1 (D)
Man City (H): 2-0 (W)
Chelsea (A): 2-0 (W)
Arsenal (H): 1-1 (D)

So 12 out of 18 points available in 2019/20.
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
30,046
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
The thing is it isn’t just a lack of clarity or distinct vision on the pitch that has caught Solskjær out at this point. Despite the quality added, we have a seriously unbalanced squad. And I can’t help but think we have been shooting from the hip in the transfer market also which comes back to the manager as well as he has been calling those shots.

Now I want to preface this by saying I am very happy to have both Ronaldo and Sancho in the squad. This is not an attack on either of them individually at all…

But the long and short of it is you cannot rely on runners in midfield if you really want to be a top side. And yet we ended up adding two attackers to an already formidable attack this summer rather than bolstering the midfield. I don’t think there is any excuse for such a gross oversight.

And the problem of runners in midfield is only more pronounced with Ronaldo in the team. Playing with such a focal point requires serious control of the game to both create chances and limit defensive transitions. And we just are not capable of playing that way with McFred in midfield.

So in effect I am now looking at the situation and thinking Ole probably sealed his fate with the Ronaldo signing. And sooner rather than later possibly. He is a player who raises expectations immensely yet doesn’t fit the way we try to play at all.

So you have to ask yourself what the plan really is or was. On and off the pitch.
He got that are sorted. "wait next year till we have a proper midfield"

He neglected that part for a reason. Proper manager would have looked for 10-20M stop gap to fill the hole, anyone functional would be sufficient, don't have to be world record. He got DVB but don't even know how or where to play him.

Clueless of a manager
 

Sky1981

Fending off the urge
Joined
Apr 12, 2006
Messages
30,046
Location
Under the bright neon lights of sincity
Listen I will always be grateful to him for steadying the ship after Jose and rebuilding this squad, however I just can't change my views unless he is willing to swallow his pride and admit I was wrong about McFred and I need better coaches too.
People who understand that they need help, and lacking in some areas would have done something 15 years ago. Ole is not a new manager, he's been managing for close to 15 years. If he doesn't learn then he won't learn now.

Granted it's Molde and Cardiff, but it's not his first rodeo. Heck 3 years at United is enough for him to know he needs fresh idea cause his idea is not working at all.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
He clearly wanted Rice but felt the price was too high so decided to wait for him a bit like Sancho for his price to drop. Same with Trippier with Atheltico wanting 40 mil for him.

I think Ronaldo was more a player bought because a United manager and the Glazers have to - to stop City getting him. Now even though he is 36, and I think he is a bit overrated at this age, if Ole doesn't get the best out of such a legend of United then he will sacked partly because of it.
 

Womp

idiot
Joined
Jun 23, 2013
Messages
9,262
Location
Australia
Think people are really letting him off the hook too easily. This was an Everton team who were missing Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison. This has been far too consistent. Lesser teams looking like the better sides etc. Resting our best players right before an international break, the substitutions, the dull, unimaginative football. It's just far too common.

He needs to go now. People that haven't lost faith in him by now, never will, but he's simply not good enough.
 

Reddevildans

Full Member
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
1,251
Location
Beyond the Wall
I was hoping to wake up to some rumours of the board looking for alternatives as a measure to put ole under greater pressure but can't see anything which suggests to me they'll only act when we are completely out of the title race and ucl. If that. The next month will be crucial however and if we're beaten by Liverpool and City convincingly I can definitely see some change. By then we will completely be out of the title race and once again the board will have acted too late while our rivals win the trophies. Another wasted season while spending a lot of money. Embarrassing.
 

Bobcat

Full Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
6,388
Location
Behind the curtains, leering at the neighbors
He got that are sorted. "wait next year till we have a proper midfield"

He neglected that part for a reason. Proper manager would have looked for 10-20M stop gap to fill the hole, anyone functional would be sufficient, don't have to be world record. He got DVB but don't even know how or where to play him.

Clueless of a manager
Come on. I know Fred and McTomminays stock are not high right now, but if we were to improve on them for 20 million it would have to be an absoloute steal
 

DomesticTadpole

Doom-monger obsessed with Herrera & the M.E.N.
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Messages
101,122
Location
Barrow In Furness
Our fixture list is brutal now


I expect us to be 7-10 points off the top at the end of this. Ole usually does well against big opposition so we might do better but at the end of November we could be effectively out of PL race.
At least the Leicester game is a 3.00 o'clock kick off so he can't moan about that.
 

Bebestation

Im a doctor btw, my IQ destroys yours
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
11,862
Come on. I know Fred and McTomminays stock are not high right now, but if we were to improve on them for 20 million it would have to be an absoloute steal
Soon as we as a club go for a player it's going to increase in 10-20 million anyway.
 

Kush

Hyperbolic and will post where they like!!
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
3,441
Look, the last two games have been disappointing but Ole has a good record in the league against the big clubs and I think the hard run of games coming up will galvanise the players and we'll come out of it looking good.
This myth really needs to die, our record vs Big Six in league is mediocre. It won't lead to any silverware (that's discounting the fact we struggle so much vs the rest anyway) There are multitudes of reason for this, but the most prominent one is, we are quite predictable when we play these matches.

MUFC 18-19

1. Spurs W1 D0 L0, GF 1, GA 0
2. Liverpool W0 D1 L0, GF 0, GA 0
3. Arsenal W0 D0 L1, GF 0, GA 2
4. Man City W0 D0 L1, GF, 0, GA 2
5. Chelsea W0 D1 L0, GF 1, GA 1

W1, D2, L2

That's total of 5 points out of 15, with 2 goals scored, 5 conceded with GD of -3.

MUFC 19-20

1. Chelsea W2 D0 L0, GF 6, GA 0
2. Arsenal W0 D1 L1, GF 1, GA 3
3. Liverpool W0 D1 L1, GF 1, GA 3
4. Spurs W1 D1 L0, GF 3, GA 1
5. Man City W2 D0 L0, GF 4, GA 1

W5, D3, L2

That's total of 18 points out of 30, with 15 goals scored, 8 conceded with GD of +7. By far our best run vs Top 6.

MUFC 20-21

1. Spurs W1 D0 L1, GF 4, GA 7
2. Chelsea W0 D2 L0, GF 0, GA 0
3. Arsenal W0 D1 L1, GF 0, GA 1
4. Man City W1 D1 L0, GF 2, GA 0
5. Liverpool W0 D1 L1, GF 2, GA 4

W2, D5, L3.

That's total of 11 points out of 30, with 8 goals scored, 12 conceded with GD of -4.

So, overall in Ole's tenure, we have won 34 points out of possible 75 vs "Big Six" with 8 wins, 10 draws, and 8 losses whereby we have scored 25 goals and conceded 25 for GD of 0.

To put things into perspective. Record for last 3 PL winners vs Top 6 (Man City x2, and Liverpool) is

Man City

1. Arsenal W4 D0 L0, GF 7, GA 1
2. Liverpool W2 D2 L0, GF 7, GA 3
3. Spurs W3 D0 L1, GF 5, GA 2
4. Chelsea W2 D0 L2, GF 10, GA 5
5. Man Utd W2 D0 L2, GF 5, GA 3

That's total of 43 points out of possible 60, with 34 goals scored, 12 conceded with GD of +22.

Liverpool

1. Arsenal W1 D0 L1, GF 4, GA1
2. Chelsea W2 D0 L0, GF 7, GA 3
3. Man Utd W1 D1 L0, GF 3, GA 1
4. Spurs W2 D0 L0, GF 3, GA 1
5. Man City W1 D0 L1, GF 3, GA 5

That's total of 22 points out of possible 30, with 20 goals scored, 11 conceded with GD of +9.


The standard of our competitors is too high in the Premier League. If we are aiming to compete for the PL, these records vs Top 6 won't cut the muster. Someone like Tuchel has a tiny sample, but his record is W5, D1, L2. 16 points out of possible 24 vs Big six. We need to win ~70% of points in our upcoming matches vs Big 6, because that's the standard for PL winners in past 3 years.
 

Red00012

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
12,191
I would think the majority of us want us to win the PL over anything else .
Is the squad good enough “on paper “ to win the league ? Yes
And for all the Ole in posters ask yourself a genuine question can you see this man leading us to a title over Pep and Klopp and even Tuchel ?

The answer is not a hope so get him out.
Club legend or not he’s not up to it .He’s done a good job but he’s brought us as far as we can go. 50% win ratio in the PL at home in 2 seasons is an embarrassing stat.
 

Red2001

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
8
It's bizarre how a manager like Conte is up for grabs but this club just insists on prolonging the suffering while all along his sacking is going to happen sooner or later. Not a single manager has been backed the way he has and coming off this window the only way to go was up.

We genuinely signed 3 world class players and he's been here long enough now to get some cosistency going so not being given enough time is no longer an excuse yet every single game we are witnessing this absolutely horrid horrid football when on paper our team for the first time since Sir Alex left is very strong.

Look at the fecking team he's got at his disposal and we are still losing to the likes of Villa, Young Boys, an inch of losing against Everton today and had Villareal had a proper striker we'd be down 3-0 after the first half. At this point anyone who is dead set on the coaching not being the major issue here is in deep denial.

The defence is a circus and the attack has so much quality to it yet we stink there too.
The board does not want a Mourinho like manager again. They want a yes man, someone they can control like Ole. Even if he's a winner, Conte would far too unpredictable for the board. I hope we get him though, he's a proven winner unlike what we got.
 

dwd

Saturday Night Spies
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
16,328
Location
Under soil heating.
Think people are really letting him off the hook too easily. This was an Everton team who were missing Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison. This has been far too consistent. Lesser teams looking like the better sides etc. Resting our best players right before an international break, the substitutions, the dull, unimaginative football. It's just far too common.

He needs to go now. People that haven't lost faith in him by now, never will, but he's simply not good enough.
This.
 

Desert Eagle

Punjabi Dude
Joined
Sep 25, 2006
Messages
17,162
People could say he's finished 3rd then 2nd and now seven games in he's a couple points off first. They'd say give him time, he's earned it. They would be right if you ignore all the important context around Oles reign.

He came in as a stop gap mood lifter. He stabilized a rocky ship but a ship that was more luxury liner than rubber dinghy rapids. He's had long periods of poor performances throught his tenure. He's also had good ones to be fair but in the important moments and matches he always concedes the initiative. He has spent a lot of money and has no trophy to show for it.

For a lot of people it's been obvious for a year or two now that Ole is not that guy. However our board knows feck all about football and they will not act till the fans or players turn on him publicly. They will repeat the 3rd, 2nd, early season talking points. We will not be ruthless and proactive and we will rightly pay the price for wasting time. Perhaps by the time Ole is fired Ten Haag will be at Barca, Potter at Arsenal, Conte at Spurs and Zidane at PSG .

Having said that there us a chance it all clicks and we go on a run of winning games, playing good cohesive football. I have it at about 2% but some might have it as high as 20%-50%.
 

YikesSchmeics

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
342
I don't know why his job should depend on results anymore. It's clear the results we are getting are coming from the sheer quality of player we have, as opposed to the system. We were DIRE on Wednesday but a late winner from a clutch player and suddenly Ole gets a pass?

He has had time. He has been backed. As the players he has to work with have gotten better, the football has gotten worse. He is great at setting up on the counter. Rubbish otherwise. And thats why he has reached his ceiling.

What irks me most is that he isn't even trying to change it. The definition of madness. The Donny situation is a joke. Giving the guy garbage minutes and expecting him to find rhythm then admonishing him for his disappointment. Meanwhile the lazy sulk Martial is given all kinds of opportunity and understanding to find some form. Ronaldo was benched yesterday so players could find form. But the 2 midfielders who havent played well since early 2020 continue to get top billing. It's beyond a joke.

Same with his coaching staff. SAF sought out Queiroz when the football wasnt cohesive. No such luck from Ole. Which is odd since he exists on soundbites from the good ol days.

If the club had any brains they would sack him today and use the 2 weeks to bring in and settle in a new manager.
 

FattyFooty

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
898
I’m “Ole In” and think the hysterical reaction as usual is well over the top. However- he needs to stop these streaks of bad form we go on and he also needs to find a way to mix it up considerably. We’ve become too predictable
I think you got it wrong.

First Ole has had a very long time to adapt and he has been given the tools to rebuild our squad.
He has been here 4 years. A footballers career is very short. In 4 years from now Varane and Maguire will be over 30 years of age. Ronaldo over 40. Our young wonderkids, the likes of Rashford, Greenwood and Martial would never hit there peak. And also not be young anymore.
4 Years is alot in modern football.

Still after all this time. None seems to even understand a pattern in our game, only pattern is we disapoint. Alot.

And on top, our playing style dont help our defenders, and it dont help our attack either. Yes we had some games we looked good. Sadly i think that is more to the insane talent in our squad rather than Ole beeing a genius.

As an old Norwegian United fan, id love Ole to take us back. But i dont belive it anymore. Im not sure Ole belives it anymore either, the smile he had on yesterdays game, i take that as him beeing very insecure and trying to be brave.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,672
I mean... 2 out those 3 guys who came before him managed to win trophies in their 1st or 2nd season while Ole is in his 3rd season and we have absolutely no chance of winning anything. How is he better? Smiles is not everything...
Well smiles is more or less irrelevant unless you’re talking generally about team spirit and the atmosphere at the club.

However, trophies is not everything.

If we won that penalty shoot out against Villarreal would that make Ole better? And if you call losing 11-10 on penalties “absolutely no chance” you’re detached from reality; either that or you have a short memory.
 

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
Well smiles is more or less irrelevant unless you’re talking generally about team spirit and the atmosphere at the club.

However, trophies is not everything.

If we won that penalty shoot out against Villarreal would that make Ole better? And if you call losing 11-10 on penalties “absolutely no chance” you’re detached from reality; either that or you have a short memory.
I couldn't care less about the EL trophy. The only reason we even were in that competition is because we crashed out of CL groups. We have absolutely no chance of winning PL or CL. There is a very slight possibility of winning the FA cup if we get some favourable draws and the luck is on our side, the last 2 winners of it are Leicester and Arsenal so anything can happen but is just unlikely.
 

smi11ie

Not a philogynist
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
885
Location
Buri Ram
Supports
Rangers
Well smiles is more or less irrelevant unless you’re talking generally about team spirit and the atmosphere at the club.

However, trophies is not everything.

If we won that penalty shoot out against Villarreal would that make Ole better? And if you call losing 11-10 on penalties “absolutely no chance” you’re detached from reality; either that or you have a short memory.
No one denies that there are fine margins involved in winning things. The answer is YES, it would make Ole better. Professional sport is about winning.

The smile felt wrong, like laughing at a funeral.

I want Ole to succeed but that doesn't mean that I bottle his farts and sell it as perfume.
 

YikesSchmeics

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
342
Without reading back through the pages are there still Ole in fans?
I'd call it blind hope. We all wanted him to do it, but hoping for something so detached from reality is madness.

It's very clear to see the signs. We are playing terrible. As I said already, he has had the time. No other top club would still have him there after this much time, this much investment and with this much evidence that he just isn't up to it.

I was Ole In right up until the EL Final. I made the excuses for him. After that game where he blew it, and this summers window, I feel with the players he has now, there is nowehere to hide. People blame the lack of quality .... he has had enough time now to fix it, so that is on him. All the excuses people offer now, he has had the time, it is on him.
 

padzilla

Hipster
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
3,393
I find it unlikely any other PL club would hire him as manager never mind him lead us to a PL title ahead of Liverpool, City and Chelsea.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,672
You didn’t answer my questions.
What qualifies a manager as elite? Winning major trophies? If so then he is not. That would be Mourinho and Van Gaal. As I said, I think Ole is better for us than those two.

What do you mean by hard to replace? It is very easy to replace any manager. There is a queue of candidates for every job. The difficulty is getting a manager who will be better for the club than what we have. If Ole were to get the sack now, we’d find out, but that’s unlikely so we can only speculate.

This is a difficult club to manage, expectation is high and many highly rated managers have failed. Then there is the question of how we want our manager to go about running the team and the club. I don’t want to throw out three years of development for a so-called elite manager to come in and rip it up and probably crash and burn within two or three years - we’ve seen it before.
 

passtheball

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Messages
172
Let's not forget one thing. The season before which Ole came in, the team actually finished second in the league on 81 points, which is the highest since Fergie left. It's not as if Ole came into a club of poor players. Those players were simply not performing in Jose's usual third season meltdown.

Ole got them playing for about 15 games, it looked like the club could finish in the top 4, he was given the status of permanent manager, and what happened next? Won 2 or 3 out of the next 10 and crashed out of the top 4 places. In his second season it was three semi-finals lost and in his third he was beaten in Europe's second-rate cup final. Everytime the pressure has been on, he fails.

Not to mention the unimaginative and conservative counter-attacking football.

Ole is simply not a big club manager. His level is caretaker.
 

AshRK

Full Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
12,184
Location
Canada
I know we all live in a result oriented business but my issue is not just us dropping silly points, it is also how poor we have played this season. Clearly it seems Ole doesn't know the system. It seems Ronaldo transfer has done more harm than good but even then it's no excuse. He is still a top goalscorer so manager has to make sure we create chances for him. Atleast last season we played quick direct football. This season we have done nothing.
 

OrcaFat

Full Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
5,672
No one denies that there are fine margins involved in winning things. The answer is YES, it would make Ole better. Professional sport is about winning.

The smile felt wrong, like laughing at a funeral.

I want Ole to succeed but that doesn't mean that I bottle his farts and sell it as perfume.
The answer is “NO” - Dave saving one penalty instead of missing one wouldn’t make Ole better. But it would make his record better and, I agree, that’s what really matters.

The smile did feel wrong. I think he is feeling the pressure, who wouldn’t? Just looking at him over the last couple of weeks, he has a strained look about him, nervier than usual, embarrassed about having to defend some poor performances and some bad results.

I agree with those who say the next month is make or break. Hard to say how many points he needs from the next six games but I am concerned he won’t get enough. Depends who we lose to and how badly but I don’t think the board will shy away from pulling the trigger if they can line someone up to come in.
 

BalanceUnAutreJoint

Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
1,522
Absolutely nothing that has happened this season should make sacking a possibility right now.

3rd in the league, 2 points off the top, 1 point off first place in the CL.

Too much overreaction. He deserves the full season.
 

smi11ie

Not a philogynist
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
885
Location
Buri Ram
Supports
Rangers
The answer is “NO” - Dave saving one penalty instead of missing one wouldn’t make Ole better. But it would make his record better and, I agree, that’s what really matters.

The smile did feel wrong. I think he is feeling the pressure, who wouldn’t? Just looking at him over the last couple of weeks, he has a strained look about him, nervier than usual, embarrassed about having to defend some poor performances and some bad results.

I agree with those who say the next month is make or break. Hard to say how many points he needs from the next six games but I am concerned he won’t get enough. Depends who we lose to and how badly but I don’t think the board will shy away from pulling the trigger if they can line someone up to come in.
I hope Ole can do it! Trying to keep everyone happy must be difficult for him. It will be an interesting few months.
 

BootsyCollins

Full Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2012
Messages
4,269
Location
Under the roof, above the clouds
My opinion on the matter is this :
- I think Ole deserves this season to win a trophy.
- If that trophy is the FA Cup he needs top 4 and at least a short CL knockout run.
- If a bigger portion of our better players starts sulking and complaining, in other words Ole losing the dressingroom, he should go right away.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.