The notion from Ole's fan club that Ole needs some world class coaches around him since he is a 'man manager and nothing else'. Also that we need to fill every position with a world class player (apparently we are now missing a DM) for him to finally get the team playing some football. If we buy him the best players for every position and hire top coaches because he can't coach, then what is he even doing here?
We are an awfully coached team
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And the first Liverpool goal was great team play. Yes we may beat Liverpool and City in one offs but they are going to win the long haul.
Plus we are talking about James feckin Milner and Jordan Henderson. They certainly don't have the players we have.
One thing you can’t fault Ole on is changing the flow of a game.
Watching City, Liverpool and Chelsea just shows how far behind we are the movement, patterns of play and quick passing is years ahead of us, Ole can’t coach at that level and neither can his zero experience back room staff.
It's quite sad the state of our play.
Liverpool just did it with Jordan Henderson (a laughing stock pre Klopp) and an academy lad Jones in CM, and James Milner at full back, but apparently we need 2 more World Class players in CM in order to perform.
Make no mistake, this is the standard and we’re miles off it.
I thought the game was defined by the moments of 'individual brilliance' that all you coaching-aficionados love to hate.
Liverpool could barely string two passes together in the first half. For all the talk of Klopp 'moving Salah wider' (gasp, tactical phenomenon) he could have easily done that before half time, right? Or, maybe, half time allowed him the chance to collectively bollock the players for not being good or aggressive enough and they responded - aided by moments of real quality by probably the best player in the league.
Liverpool could barely string two passes together in the first half. For all the talk of Klopp 'moving Salah wider' (gasp, tactical phenomenon) he could have easily done that before half time, right? Or, maybe, half time allowed him the chance to collectively bollock the players for not being good or aggressive enough and they responded - aided by moments of real quality by probably the best player in the league.
I simply can't understand how people who watch PL can't see that and are actually happy with Ole's "attacking football". Mind blowing
If that’s what you took from this high quality a game, I feel sorry for you man.
Oh, and everyone to a man loves individual brilliance.
Yes just like Salah's goal but both teams had a structure that they played in. As I have said in an earlier post I saw an interview of Johan Cruijff who says that individual play should come within the structure. Some would obviously say what does Cruijff know about football coaching?
Watched pool vs city, and yes we are miles behind them at the moment. I hope that the Board will sack Ole IF we are 10 plus points behind league leaders come December. The games against Atalanta are absolutely crucial as well. If we kiss goodbye to both main trophies before X-mas, the Board will pull the trigger, I reckon.
Tuchel says the same thing. Players need to have fundamentals well-drilled to understand the basic structure of the team, but at the same time shouldn't be robotic so as to suppress creativity.
That’s class that.
Crystal clear Lampard, much like Ole, went with the “go express yourselves lads” style of management. That’s why you noticed such an incredible difference within weeks of Tuchel joining and drilling structure into his team. The individual brilliance was/is still there, but the naive football was gone.
Every Tuchel interview is great. He's remarkably candid and (although I'm biased) very well-spoken.
And yep, couldn't agree more. It's very telling that Tuchel came in and immediately identified that we didn't have anything even resembling a cohesive structure to build upon and so that's what he prioritised. From my perspective on the outside that is what United are sorely lacking - though you have more individual quality than we did last year man to man.
I know this isn't the point but im not sure if i would like him here personally as the last 4 coaches have had absolutely dreadful football so i just want to enjoy watching United play with a coach that will go all out attack every game even if it goes tits up, sort of like Klopp i guess, but saying that i absolutely love watching his interviews too, not only is he an eloquent and charismatic personality but he is also knowledgeable enough to elevate what quality he has at his disposal on the training pitch first and foremost rather than just spending and hoping for the best, it's precisely what separates him as an elite manager from the Artetas/Lampards/Ole's.
Absolutely nobody would have said Chelsea's squad could have won the CL last season too and were only a striker away from challenging for the league. Alonso, Christensen and Rudiger were considered trash and now the defense is a strong suit as well. I think i can still remember Lampard talking about the progress he was making literally days before he was sacked, did i remember that right? If anything could be such a poignant reminder for United fans...
Reading through the last few pages of this thread going back to Villa it honestly blows me away that even now people still think this is the right project for the club, i mean i know the reason why of course but we are literally sitting here across the internet after every single game talking about the same problems we had two years ago, despite getting a lot better players you just never see it on the pitch at all they look a disjointed unorganised mess. Even Nevs has come out and repeated a lot of it and that's when you know its bad given how blatantly biased he has been in the past.
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Thankfully Woodward gave Ole the dreaded vote of confidence this weekend and said the club have supporting in bringing in the best players in the world!
The pressure to succeed is now immense.
Feels like when Lampard splashed too much on Werner, Chilwell, Silva and Havertz and then couldn't deliver.
A bridge too far for Lampard and Ole. Writing cheques their ability can't cash.
The pressure to succeed is now immense.
Feels like when Lampard splashed too much on Werner, Chilwell, Silva and Havertz and then couldn't deliver.
A bridge too far for Lampard and Ole. Writing cheques their ability can't cash.
this is how i understand football a well
Lampard didn't know how to attack without completely leaving them open to the counter and paid many times for not knowing how to set out his team defensively.
That clip alone probably goes to show what's changed with Tuchel. He gave a talented squad a defensive structure to work from and they're now top of the league.
Any more Tuchels out there and available for us?
Get Baumgart from Cologne.
Alright, I see myself out of here, just could not resist.
I could be wrong but a glance at his managerial record isn't anything that shows he's ready to manage at the top level?
Got me. Haha
Half of the replies are regarding Ole
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i think Tuchel and Klopp are trolling Ole now
On a serious note: He got Paderborn from third league to the first Bundesliga. And while they instantly got relegated again one has to see that they invested almost nothing in the team but in the infrastructure, so they competed with a mix of 2nd/3rd league players.
Now he had a strong beginning to the season in Cologne, went head-to-head against CL teams (got an unlucky loss in Munich and a draw against Leipzig) and is currently 6th in the league with a squad that got almost relegated last year and lost their best defender (Bornauw to Wolfsburg).
Still early, but he might actually prove himself there to coach a top team in a few years. His "I want to win every game" mentality, his usage of the whole squad and the shown tactical flexibility (for example against Leipzig his 442 did not work, changed it to a 4231 after 30 minutes) at least gives me hope.
But most importantly he is the only one who ever played for my home club Spvg Aurich (somewhere lost in the 4th to 6th level in Germany)
I think this is a key point that you're spot on about - in addition to the examples you cited I'd also say that looking at the likes of RLC and Barkley who looked to be dead weight is illustrative; they were both multiple years removed from contributing at all and now are both playing well in high-leverage situations.
Will keep an eye out on his future progress!On a serious note: He got Paderborn from third league to the first Bundesliga. And while they instantly got relegated again one has to see that they invested almost nothing in the team but in the infrastructure, so they competed with a mix of 2nd/3rd league players.
Now he had a strong beginning to the season in Cologne, went head-to-head against CL teams (got an unlucky loss in Munich and a draw against Leipzig) and is currently 6th in the league with a squad that got almost relegated last year and lost their best defender (Bornauw to Wolfsburg).
Still early, but he might actually prove himself there to coach a top team in a few years. His "I want to win every game" mentality, his usage of the whole squad and the shown tactical flexibility (for example against Leipzig his 442 did not work, changed it to a 4231 after 30 minutes) at least gives me hope.
But most importantly he is the only one who ever played for my home club Spvg Aurich (somewhere lost in the 4th to 6th level in Germany)
We must have an awful coaching team.
Only conclusion you can reach from so many bad performances this season so far. It's not as though we have poor players anymore other than the managers favourite Fred.
Only conclusion you can reach from so many bad performances this season so far. It's not as though we have poor players anymore other than the managers favourite Fred.
Ole and team don't have a scooby.
I agree with you. Lampard and Ole were very similar. Chosen to "do a job" and be trusted to do a risky overhaul and be the fall guy if it went wrong. It's gone wrong here too now and Ole will have to take responsibility ultimately.
Tuchel isn't near the very best managers in the game yet but he seems to be a better organiser than Lampard and Ole.
Who just throw numbers forward with no real gameplan.
The amount of times I see Man United attackers just standing near the box back to goal is mindblowing.
So easy to defend against when a team parks the bus and there's no interplay around the edge of the box. It's elementary "I pass to you then you pass to him". Never any 3rd person running off the ball. Dogshit football from us unless a team foolishly come out and attack us which gives us a chance to counter attack.
Tactically Ole and his team don't have what it takes to win a League or Champions League. So that should be that and we get a proven team in.
Exactly. Give Klopp, Tuchel or Pep this United team and they’d work around our lack of midfield quality but Ole just exposes our weaknesses even more in that area.
Klopp won a league title with Wijnaldum and Henderson in midfield, Sir Alex had us trouncing teams with Anderson and Cleverly in midfield, that's coaching. The idea that we need 11 world class players to play football is ridiculous. You don't need to spend another 100m to play football with ideas and actual patterns of play. He said we got hit on the counter yesterday same way we were hit on Wednesday and yet in between then and now, did nothing to remedy it.
I get some of the criticism of Ole but questioning his tactics against Pep? I mean just check the results.
Replace Pep with anybody else. The point is that Klopp saw what was going wrong and changed it, Ole can't do that.
Well no you said Ole can't take Pep on tactically. Can't adapt to anything Pep does on a pitch.
Despite Ole repeatedly beating Pep with a lesser team.
There's legit criticism and then there's having a go for the sake of it.
pretty sure the games we were successful were the ones where pep attacked us. Like Leeds, we can play our best game with those who attack us
You get his point. Also pep has beaten us everytime it actually mattered anyway. Every knock out competition or crutial moment. Only time we've won is when city didn't need to.
I would say we are clearly behind Man City tactically and technically but defo not with Liverpool.
Liverpool weren't amazing at all, they played long ball after long ball. Salah came up with fantastic moments to affect the scoreline but them as a team ? Not that impressive. The cnuts in blue however... Scary to think what they could be with a proper finisher up front
Liverpool weren't amazing at all, they played long ball after long ball. Salah came up with fantastic moments to affect the scoreline but them as a team ? Not that impressive. The cnuts in blue however... Scary to think what they could be with a proper finisher up front
Yeah agree. But it still takes some tactical ability to fairly consistently beat City right?
I get his point but it's clearly wrong. Ole can respond to Peps tactics.
Looking at your final point it seems we've reached that stage where Ole isn't just getting fairly criticised. He's not going to get any credit at all.
Them not having a conventional striker is both working against them and for them, there's an abundance of ball carriers who are technically extremely good.
Why would you say Liverpool, as a team, aren't tactically superior to United? You don't see a much better organised team, with better set pieces at both ends, quicker transitions, higher tempo, clearer purpose (and harder working)? I've been seeing that for 3 years now. Technically is a bit vague, if you're talking individual players, sure, we've got our own, but as a team what makes us technically on par? If you're talking about midfield, where they're weakest, they're still better. Technically as well.