He didn't like it - he made that clear.
Park Ji-Sung asks United fans to stop singing his chant
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
How does one paint a cultural practice as a racial slur? These people in the video below say themselves or people around them eat or have eaten dog meat. Its not some made up thing that people just started saying to be abusive. No smoke without fire and apparently fairly common with older Koreans and past generations as well as those in rural areas. Park as with other younger Koreans probably realised that to western countries it (eating dog meat) can come off as weird and so be taken as an insult in that setting but maybe he is being Westernized because you should never be ashamed of your countries cuisine, especially when influenced by the opinions of foreigners. I say "bon appetit"
Park, park wherever you may be
We’ve abused you racially
so to make to amends
We’re gonna change the song
And sing “Ji, sorry, we were wrong”.
We’ve abused you racially
so to make to amends
We’re gonna change the song
And sing “Ji, sorry, we were wrong”.
Yeah but the chant doesn’t say all Koreans eat dogs does it
It states “they eat dogs in your country” which is true is it not?
I don’t agree with Fox hunting but if a Korean chants “they hunt fox in your country” I have no grounds to complain.
Maybe Park should be bringing this up with the leaders of his nation rather than chastising a group of people who’ve showed him nothing but support for the past 15 years.
I don’t really care if I never hear the tune again, it’s more that I’m a bit sick of the politicisation of football. The beautiful game should be the one place we can submerge and forget about race issues/religion/politics etc.
Who is politicising football and forcing the conversation about race ? The people chanting? The people being offended? The newspapers reporting the views of a famous ex footballer?
Good point, we probably can’t separate football from everything else.
Like I said I don’t particularly care about the song but I don’t get why it’s such a big deal.
I guess it doesn’t really concern me though and it’s not my place to tell others what should/shouldn’t offend them.
If park doesn’t like it then it makes sense to drop it anyway.
I was just trying to understand something which I didn’t and work out if I was being ignorant or if many people really are hyper-sensitive
The scouse council house/poverty/thieving/bin dipping...thing is obviously not to be placed in the category some seem to place it...in.
Let's not lose all perspective here.
There's a difference between "banter" (a convenient excuse for racist, sexist, bigoted shite which has been used for years, but which is now thankfully being called out for what it is more and more) and...actual banter.
United fans singing "sign on...sign on" amounts to what? Those same fans mocking the unemployed?
You could probably come up with a joke involving characteristics ("he's this or that, so he's that or this") that couldn't possibly offend anyone - but it'd most likely be shite. As in - it would be so lame (oops, potentially bad term there) nobody would laugh.
Let's not lose all perspective here.
There's a difference between "banter" (a convenient excuse for racist, sexist, bigoted shite which has been used for years, but which is now thankfully being called out for what it is more and more) and...actual banter.
United fans singing "sign on...sign on" amounts to what? Those same fans mocking the unemployed?
You could probably come up with a joke involving characteristics ("he's this or that, so he's that or this") that couldn't possibly offend anyone - but it'd most likely be shite. As in - it would be so lame (oops, potentially bad term there) nobody would laugh.
Imagine you really like this one girl, so you get drunk, get your mandolin and go to her window to serenade her, and it goes a little something like "Julie, Julie, where ever you may be, I still think of your moist cnut" and she comes to the window and says "Can you not, Archibald?" and then you go "Well your cnut does get moist sometimes, so it's not exactly a lie isn't it? I bet you think it's fine to sing about my dick, so then it's suddenly fine because I'm a man? Why must you politicize romance? I don't even care about this song but I don't see what's the fuss about!".
You just keep the chant and change the dog bit to 'you are God in your own country'. More fitting
Yep nicely put mate.
I have a similar opinion to you.
I think if Park/and or our sizeable Korean fan base don't like it we should not song it. To keep doing so would be insensitive and careless. In answer to your question about politicisation of football, I assume Park felt an obligation to use his platform as our ambassador to speak out about it - presumably he has been approached by United fans or potentially campaigners/politicians about this. I think in this case its simply Park acting on his duties as an ambassador to that region and using his voice to relay the wishes of the people he is paid to connect with the club.
I don't think it's racist or xenophobic. It's not derogatory or purposefully offensive*. Those words are used too liberally. However, if Koreans find it to be an uncomfortable association, or want to distance themselves from that practise, then it's insensitive to keep making that association and the decent thing would be to support their wishes.
*about Koreans. It's purposefully offensive about Scousers, and derogatory about council houses/tenants.
Good for him, it's fecking stupid and racist.
Agreed. If something upsets someone you apparently like then why keep doing it, regardless of whether you think they “should” be bothered about it or not.
Funnily enough I was brought up in a council house on a council estate and the council house part of the chant doesn’t bother me either, so maybe I’m just heartless haha.
Right.
But that doesn't solve the scouse/rats/council house dilemma.
So:
Park, Park wherever you may be
You're a god in your own countree
It could be worse - or maybe not
Since being a god is pretty hot
(Might sing this loud like a PC bot
But to be honest I'd rather be shot).
It’s clearly a statement to degrade Korean people. I don’t get how people on here try to argue it’s just a normal thing to say and al in good faith. True or not.
Not trying to be a stick in the mud but would the 2nd half of the chant still be ok?
Is making fun of an economically disadvantaged area ok?
Is making fun of an economically disadvantaged area ok?
I’m one of the Utd Ultras. I’ll do what I can to spread the word.
I think it's a pretty weak argument to say it's okay because it's true. Most stereotypes derive from at least a grain of truth, but it doesn't make them any less harmful.
Would it be okay to sing "you used to gas jews in your country" to German players then? It's true after all. And in American they used to lynch black people, and they still shoot up schools all the time. Clearly there is much more to consider than if something is true or not.
You might not care but I wouldn't like it if people's first impression of me when I told them I was British was "oh you guys terrorise and kill Foxes for sport".
I'm not trying to be patronising here but if you look into the studies about the historical dehumanisation of black people and the impact it still has on society today (for example people are more likely to be okay with a black person being beaten by police) then it's easy to see how these stereotypes become a slippery slope towards treating a group of people differently based on how they look.
On your last comment, if "the beautiful game" involves the racial stereotyping of a group of people, to the point where they have to come out and ask us not to do it - then it's not that beautiful is it? Some things need to change.
what is the point you are making here?
I'm not making any point, i was replying to someone who said dogs aren't eaten in South Korea...
you replied to me and I just said the majority of Koreans are against it, hence my confusion
South Korean is not a race
even if this was true, it doesn't mean South Koreans can't experience racism so its a moot point
My god the cafe never fails to amaze me. He’s asked us to stop singing it so stop singing it. Simple as that.
going a bit deep here mate. The song is about eating practices which still somewhat happens today, not about all the past EVILS a country has done. This is a bit much. just eating animals man
but the discussion will naturally go onto the topic of stereotypes and their impact, which it has done here
I was replying to someone who said something along the lines of "but it's okay because it's true".. and history has shown us why this is seriously flawed logic
they are just examples to illustrate a point
Lot's of racism is just a negative depiction or interpretation of something cultural.
It's quite stunning that you think Park was forced to say this. It's clearly derogatory, especially clear to someone like Park who has worked and traveled abroad and sees the comment in it's full context. He knows the way the average English person feels about eating dogs.
And on the second paragraph, an absence of malice is not an absence of racism. Ignorance of the effect of one's words is not an excuse. And in this thread when the effect is pointed out, by someone like Park, and other posters, it is argued against! Incredible.
Many moons ago I was often in the company of friends of my English friends and they would be openly joking about Ireland, mimicking my accent and calling me Paddy. Now while I was in a nice environment, and didn't sense any real animosity it wasn't very comfortable and reflected a wider dislike of the Irish in my opinion, maybe subconsciously. And on the few occasions when I did feel I could try and explain. I was laughed at and told I was wrong, and that they were only joking. Only when my English friends explained with a bit more force did it stop.
Like I do think there is a rush by some people to be offended by things not aimed at them at all, but this is not one of those cases. It's clearly a cultural slight.
There are plenty of stupid comments in this thread, but this certainly takes the cake.
Park, park where ever you may be,
we have no food in our tory country,
It could be worse, we could be scouse,
starting petitions in our council house?
we have no food in our tory country,
It could be worse, we could be scouse,
starting petitions in our council house?
I can't believe utd fans even made that chant up in the first place, It's racist.
We have come a long way and it goes to show how ignorant people were in the noughties.
So at the time, Park had to endure that chant each and every game he played in and he didn't even moan about it back then so kudos to him.
Excellent player!
We have come a long way and it goes to show how ignorant people were in the noughties.
So at the time, Park had to endure that chant each and every game he played in and he didn't even moan about it back then so kudos to him.
Excellent player!
15 years ago it was funny, today it's not. It's easy to make these claims in hindsight.
The song shouldn't be sang or the lyrics should be changed. Not just the eating dogs thing, but the council house thing too. I would bet that more than half of the United support live in or have lived in council housing at some point and it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Where did I say Park was forced to say this? I didn't. STUNNING!
It's not derogatory or racist as it's not critical. They have a tradition that we don't. We would each have traditions the other would find weird. Weird isn't bad, it's just different. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the matter, nobody except a complete nutjob would think any less of an individual Korean or Koreans in general.
In my opinion the only people who do think it's racist are the ones who actually do think less of Koreans, who think Koreans should be ashamed, and think the answer is to silence themselves and others, instead of fixing their broken racist thought patterns. It's okay for people to eat what they want man, stop thinking less of people because they eat differently to you.
Maybe you don't know what obligation means.
Em ... It was Ji Sung Park who asked it be stopped. Not me. Is he the racist? I'm confused.
what you are saying is it may be true but it's distasteful to make a song about? Isn't it different if some people actually still enjoy the food today as opposed to lynching people or putting individuals in a gas champer which no one will claim to enjoy and are sensitive topics that bring a lot of pain to the descendants of the victims?
Why would this particular thing be negative but to appeal to white western standards? I actually don't care if people eat dog meat and don't think it should be seen as an issue. each to their own. It seems certain people are fighting to be accepted by certain other groups