He has a degree in Mathematics, Statistics and Pure Mathematics from Cambridge.
I'd be more than a little insulted by that assumption.
United appoint Dominic Jordan as director of data science
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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I'd be more than a little insulted by that assumption.
“Yeah but the lads just need to go out there, enjoy themselves and express themselves. Everyone including Rashy, Greeny, Scotty, Edi, Ronnie and Varaney”
From what I can gather Liverpool have been using it flat out under Edwards. Each player know which areas of the pitch to keep hitting with their passes. They play a percentage ball into attacking spaces and trust their teammate to get onto the ball a lot more than us. It looks like braver/better play but there is a solid method behind it. If they don’t get the first ball they sweep the second up in the press and keep turning play over until something comes off. That’s why it’s all workers in central midfield. It’s also why they look so relentless as a group. We always look like we are conserving energy just passing it to the next man side to side looking for gaps and giving up on lost causes. Less pressing and more static.
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Is that definitely right? Very interesting if so, it can only be a positive appointment and feels like something we should have had in place a long time ago (assuming he's our first data appointment).
I cant imagine any club running without some idea of data/stats, although i imagine this is a much deeper dive into the detail, as opposed to KM's covered, passes and those type of things?
Would be really interested in what type of data they pull and analyse.
Yes.
I have nothing to back this up, but I swear we are the worst at throw-ins in the league. Is there a stat for % of throw-ins which immediately result in losing possession, because I'd bet we are top.
I may have missed the point you're trying to make, but is this presumably aimed at non-playing staff given the players we signed in the summer?
wow his fm stats on judging players are going to be great then?
Hopefully this means we set up managerial scouting if not already.
Weird thing is, I think we have? Feel we hire som data science guy every quarter?
Ugh..
If we buy into this it could really modernise how we use the ball and how we press and how we recruit
Pretty much this.
Analytics are the future of sport, the best teams in every sport are invested in this already.
Yes, by "players" Jobs didn't mean footballers. The point here is: there is logic why Woodward, a B executive didn't appoint top footballing director or technical director and once the quality of staff is set to B, you should expect this sports science person to also not be an A level in his field. Mediocrity attracts more mediocrity
Dominic Jordan, Director of Data Science
More K-Passes, K-Assists and K-Goals!
We recently aquired B player Cristiano Ronaldo and B player Raphael Varane and B player Jadon Sancho, as in actual players.
But more to the point: I know that the Caf enjoys hating on Woodward for the football recruitment the past years, and rightfully so. But if you reasonably believe that Woodward is a B player in the commercial development aspect I'm not sure you're arguing in good faith.
Wrong. This appointment is not pointless because we didn't need somebody great in the role, but because who they hired is a fecking nobody. Has zero experience at another big club or track record to show that he can do it. Another Hail Mary crap. And likely, he won't be listened to by Ole or other leadership anyway. When Ole wants to play McFred, he will play McFres no matter what this guys says. Same tor when we recruit somebody
I wonder if any analysis will be done on the idea of dodgy haircuts leading to dodgy performances 
A people and B people…
Most A people started off a way lower level so it seems a moot point to me given we don’t actually know what work is going on or what they’ve achieved before or how that actually translates to us. I’m sure we’ve strived to hire best in class. if we are paying top wages and we are a top company. I doubt we go out and pay players 500k a week and scrimp on a head data scientist…
Most A people started off a way lower level so it seems a moot point to me given we don’t actually know what work is going on or what they’ve achieved before or how that actually translates to us. I’m sure we’ve strived to hire best in class. if we are paying top wages and we are a top company. I doubt we go out and pay players 500k a week and scrimp on a head data scientist…
The argument was made about Woodward's staff, not footballers. And if you think Woodward's job as the executive of world's largets club is fecking commercial development - you get what you asked for by having a team that can nevrr win any major trophy
Little star-struck are you be "Cambridge"? Hundreds of people have math degree from Cambridge but are not qualified to be top sports scientist. Actually the math required for the role is the same as taught at Cambridge and Manchester City College
What makes you sure we are going for best in class?! Seeing Murtough, Fletcher or even Ole running the place? Which one of them is even top tier in their field, let alone best? SERIOUSLY?
Could be a good appointment, I suspect his influence won't show for a while though.
Hopefully a Cambridge graduate with a background in geospatial analytics will be able to notice how bad the midfield is
Hopefully a Cambridge graduate with a background in geospatial analytics will be able to notice how bad the midfield is
How is he with FM though?
Woodward isnt an idiot though, he's highly intelligent and you're making assumptions about what/who he has recruited in the back office and classifying them based on how are on-field performances have been.
does this person going to help United to win EPL and UCL ?
Nobody has a time machine pal.
Things aren’t static. If you were on here in the late 80s you’d be saying Fergie was a B person who got lucky to get an A job and should be sacked. If you don’t allow people to grow into their roles learn and mature or factor in any room for improvement then i don’t know what to say to you. These things don’t just improve overnight. Our recruitment and league positions show me we are improving every year. Our willingness to create these roles in the first place shows me that we are addressing areas where we feel we are weak. That’s the very definition of improvement. Also what’s stopping us from hiring someone better or more innovative in a few years now the role has actually been created within the organisation?
There’s bound to be a stat. Although I hope to feck it didn’t take us hiring this guy to look at it!
Can he break up Ole - McFred love affair, though?"6 man research team" so it's possible they arent all data scientists.
No that's not going to happen in the next 5 years.
Oi Dom. If you’re so good at computers and that why haven't you solved United being called Man Red in Pro Evo, you massive nerd.”
Oh for feck's sake, can you please pay some respect to facts before writing such things? Fergie had won UEFA cup's winners cup, in 1983 a top euro trophy, before he joined us! And did it with Aberdeen no less. He was as much of an "A player" - top of his profession, as it gets! How can you compare him, even in 80s to Fletcher who had no experience as tech director, and Ole or Murtough with no top achievements? Come on!
His job isn’t to tell the manager who to play ffs.
I work as a data analyst, it’s really clear in this thread who doesn’t understand it.In the late 80s when we were doing well I’m sure you’d be saying come on guys give him more time…
An example of how Liverpool use it in terms of on-pitch tactics is pitch control.
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And obviously that then informs the shape they take in different situations. For example, when they were 1-0 up against Spurs in the 87th defending a lead, you see them suddenly take this compact shape.
And they were also the first club to sign up for Statsbomb 360, explained below:
StatsBomb 360, which had its public launch on Wednesday, is the next step. It allows teams to know exactly where every player on the pitch is across thousands of in-game events.
"Line-breaking passes are something we get asked for a lot. They come out in this data. Passing lanes and ball receipts in space come out in this. The actual distance of defenders from the player. If you need to replace David Silva then these things are pretty useful."
This level of analytics is beyond many supporters but this is the minutiae into which the biggest clubs in the world now delve, particularly with multi-million pound recruitment calls to make. "Half of football now recognise they need this stuff. The other half will get there."
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StatsBomb 360 applies this greater level of understanding not just to shots but to many more match events. "We were doing it with 25 to 30 events per match and that had a huge impact on expected goals numbers. Now we are doing it in 3,300 events per match."
What will this reveal? The biggest difference could be an improved knowledge of exactly what it is that makes a good defender - seen by some as the holy grail of stats.
"Assigning defensive responsibility for stuff is one of the missing elements in the game right now. We are trying to make that more accurate. Value in buying centre-backs, especially, is enormous. So, can you find those players who are exactly what you need for your team?
"You are not looking for the best centre-back in the world, you are looking for the one that plays your style. Pep Guardiola's style is different to Jurgen Klopp's style and Jurgen Klopp's style is different to Sean Dyche's style. This should allow them to have better information.
"When we start to get that information on defensive positioning, what you will find is, 'Oh, that guy is literally two metres out of position on a regular basis.' Teams will get a sense of that faster and more accurately and use that to profit or stop the opponent profiting.
"Centre-backs who create in open play are super valuable. This can help find them much faster than they would be flagged by traditional data - if they would be flagged at all. The players who gum up the pitch with their movement should be easier to find too.
"You know exactly what the pressure is like, when there are multiple pressures and clusters of defenders. You can gather shape information which is pretty important."
This is not just about defence. Knutson cites Jack Grealish and Eden Hazard as ball carriers who disrupt defensive shape and whose impact could now be better understood.
Perhaps most interestingly, it will be possible to rate the decisions made by players in possession far more accurately now. Previously, players whose passes created chances were given the credit. Now, a different picture emerges. Maybe there were alternatives. Maybe that player on an inferior team would make better passes given the same opportunities.
"You get much clearer information about what was available to the player and the context of the situation. That gives you a much clearer idea of their options and therefore allows you to assess their decision-making, which has been a crucial question in football.
"It is not something that maybe excites fans but if we can give an analyst two hours of their week back, in a job that is pretty relentless, that is valuable."
Let's be more specific. A team finds it is able to create repeated overloads on the left wing but senses their overlapping full-back is not taking full advantage of the situation. Data can now find every example of similar situations and reveal what other full-backs do.
In the past, teams might watch every goal or every assist. Now they can see the full picture. "Not sexy situations," as Knutson puts it. "But situations that happen all the time."
He adds: "If we can start to build a search engine around this and you can show me all the situations that look exactly like that, show me when the opponent looks like this, show me when this player we are trying to recruit looks like this, and tie it to a video engine then you can see that next level of analysis being available to people in time."
Clubs could even identify the coaches who build attacks in the same way.
"These are the situations we like in Pep's team. So show me other coaches in the world who create these situations on a regular basis. That could help your head coach search.
"We know that it will take us time to learn all of the cool stuff that we can do. We will realise there are things that we had not thought about initially. But this is a fun process, learning more stuff about the game. Who does not want to do that?
"The opportunities really are limitless."