The suggestion we shouldn't hire a more accomplished manager than Ole because we were burned in the past is fatalism, we may as well pack up with that attitude.
Would you take Conte at United?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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People will never learn. The same bunch who were desperate for Mourinho before now urges the club to make the same mistake again.
Maybe Ole is not the solution, but in case he is sacked I don't want us to chase after a name, we should evaluate based on playstyle and potential, not one coach worth to throw everything away and start over again.
Maybe Ole is not the solution, but in case he is sacked I don't want us to chase after a name, we should evaluate based on playstyle and potential, not one coach worth to throw everything away and start over again.
Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s at Newcastle shortly.
Some Spanish sounding media/newspaper reckons we're eyeing up Zidane and Conte, if we pull the trigger on Ole soon, but that Zidane isn't keen as he wants to be next France manager.
EDIT: Todo Fichajes. Doesn't sound a reliable source but I may be wrong.
EDIT: Todo Fichajes. Doesn't sound a reliable source but I may be wrong.
No the suggestion is he's a Jose type figure who could fall out with himself in an empty room. He's a terrible fit for the Glazers and our board.
Fans on here are so desperate to see Ole leave they have lost the plot.
Conte would be a terrible successor. Back to LVG and Jose times and where did that get us? Everyone hated it.
Yeah, because what we need is a yes man for the Glazers and the board. The idea that current Antonio Conte is even comparable to a 65 year old van Gaal or a washed up Mourinho is hilarious. We deserve what we get, I suppose.
It's not hilarious, Conte much like Mourinho isnt afraid to air his dirty laundry in public and destabilise things.
Has Conte fallen out at every club he's been at? Seems like one of those lazy opinions. Surely he'd get no better opportunity than this with the cash we throw about these days.
He just wouldn't be my choice because I'm not keen on his football style but there's no doubt he's levels above Ole.
He just wouldn't be my choice because I'm not keen on his football style but there's no doubt he's levels above Ole.
Every clubs no but he resigned at Juventus and Inter. At Juventus it was after years of complaining about a lack of support in the transfer market and at Inter presumably because the project changed after the chinese owners pulled out. I don't know why he was sacked at Chelsea.
Juventus, left of his own accord. He was there for 3 years and won the title each season. There were concerns because he wasn’t replicating domestic success to European success. Made a public comment about how he didn’t have the funds for it and in turn resigned in preseason.
Chelsea - I mean everyone does there. They’re a poor man’s Watford.
Inter - after coming 2nd (by 1 point) in his first season and then winning Inter their first title in over 10 years, Conte was told he would have to sell his best players and would have no budget to improve the squad. He then left of his own accord. Lukaku and Hakimi were sold and they replaced them with Darmian (perma) and Edin Dzeko.
He has a bit of a moody temper, but which top level manager doesn’t? The length of his tenures doesn’t surprise me either. It’s just our fans are so indoctrinated into thinking a manager must be here for 10 years or something.
I’d say we’ve built arguably one of the strongest squads we’ve had in over a decade under a ”yes man”. That’s not the issue.
I'm pretty much at the "any semi-competent manager would be better than Ole" stage
Maybe they just want some stability. Managers not even lasting 2 years on average hasn't exactly been great so far. Looking at our rivals Klopps been there 6 years and Pep 5 ish, so a certain level of consistency seems to work for them. Unless we're going the Chelsea route?
Myself I'd like to see us get a coach who can utilise the players we have better and unearth of few gems to add into the mix. Seems pointless sacking Ole to then need another long term project and rebuild...
Yeah, that’s great and all, but I was poking fun at the idea our manager needs to placate the Glazers of all people.
We’ve got a good squad yeah, but where do we go from here? A better manager needs to come in and take over.
You are talking about a Conte who took over teams suited to his style already. Our current squad is not suited to his 3-4-3 /3-5-2 in the first place. In The second his very picky. He doesn't quite believe in working with what he has, just what he wants. Given how United struggles to sell players that would be an immediate flash point of friction. As he'd want to bin certain players to bring in those he prefers
If he was the only alternative to Ole, then I would have him at United in a heartbeat. However, as and when Ole gets the boot, I'm sure the options for a manager will extend way beyond Conte.
I was dead against Mourinho joining United and I have the similar feelings about Conte.
I was dead against Mourinho joining United and I have the similar feelings about Conte.
The Glazers have been shit to us but we’ve still got far better conditions to work in than some of our competitors, take Klopp for example who’s only been allowed €130m worth of signings over the last three years compared to Ole who’s been allowed to spend over €400m over the same period.
As you say, we need better coaching. If we get that we should have all we need to be successful. A stabile coach would always be preferable.
If Ole goes (it won't be mid season unless we implode) we just need someone to continue the good work hes already achieved.
Conte would be like pressing the restart button.
I'd love to see if we could tempt Bielsa, but like Conte, his personality might be a bit much for the boards taste.
Ten Hag was my favourite choice well before Ole, but I think he'll hold out for City or Barca where he'd be more suited.
My current pick would be Christophe Galtier worked wonders at Lille, they were literally on the brink of collapse, in relegation zone and had to sell key players. He's since took them to league champions and is playing good football with Nice.
Favoured a 4-2-3-1 but seems to have adapted to a fluid 4-4-2.
Conte would be like pressing the restart button.
I'd love to see if we could tempt Bielsa, but like Conte, his personality might be a bit much for the boards taste.
Ten Hag was my favourite choice well before Ole, but I think he'll hold out for City or Barca where he'd be more suited.
My current pick would be Christophe Galtier worked wonders at Lille, they were literally on the brink of collapse, in relegation zone and had to sell key players. He's since took them to league champions and is playing good football with Nice.
Favoured a 4-2-3-1 but seems to have adapted to a fluid 4-4-2.
I think we have a chance with Ten Hag.
I like Enrique but I can see City going for him and hoping that Enrique does the post Pep take over thing he did at Barcelona.
But in the examples that you gave longevity is a byproduct of success and not the other way around, it also concerns managers with an history of success. You need to build short term success, then maintain mid term success which can eventually turn into long term success. There is no long term without short and mid term and there is no long term without compromises which is something that people tend to miss when they judge certain managers, many clubs and fans are unwilling to compromise and create a context that can turn short term success into long term success. And stability can easily look like Moyes or Howe at Everton and Bournemouth.
Just an example, Simeone managed 5 different clubs between 2006 and 2011. The reason he remained at Atletico isn't due to him being a "long term manager" but because after short term successes Atletico made sure that Simeone's ambition and happiness stay high by matching his desires as much as possible, they adapted to him, that's what United did with SAF, what City did with Pep,, Liverpool with Klopp and the same applies to all managers that have remained in a club long term. On the other end that's what Inter, Chelsea and Juventus almost never do.
I have issues with Conte that put me firmly in the "no" camp but the stability and long term arguments are red herrings, clubs are the main source of instability. Managers stay where they are happy and well paid.
If Conte bring United a league title and an FA Cup like he did at Chelsea, you think United would sack him?
He'd stay longer if he's backed by the club.
Stability make no sense if we don't win anything.
Tbh, I think 3-5 years managers would work, as I don't believe we'll get another long term manager like Fergie anymore.
But a key factor for it to work is to have a director of football type of role who can ensure that each manager that comes is suited to what the club wanted to do.
I genuinely don’t think I’ve seen that opinion once. Very few people are saying we shouldn’t hire an accomplished manager. Many however, like myself think we should use our past experience not to hire someone who is a poor tactical and cultural fit for Man Utd. I remember having these exact same conversations before Mourinho was appointed. When you hire for a position you don’t just grab the first guy with the best CV, you see if you also aligns with the companies culture, personalities and you need to understand their future vision. It’s clear as day that Conte is yet another step in completely different direction that has the potential to massively set the club back yet again. If we want an upgrade on Ole, then we need to find someone with the right cultural and tactical fit, it’s as simple as that.
Also, I don't think we should worry about changing formations too much. The way I see it, this United team could easily switch to 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 formation with a couple additions.
And with the age of key players like Bruno and Pogba, we probably would need either replacement or change of formation anyway in 3-4 years
And with the age of key players like Bruno and Pogba, we probably would need either replacement or change of formation anyway in 3-4 years
Ole could be the man for that.
Mark my words, he’s a barcode before Jan.
What exactly does that actually mean? What identify or style would "fit"? It seems to me to be an excuse that the perfect manager isn't about so we'll stick with someone clearly not up the job because he's a nice bloke and he used to play for us.
Why do United fans think the club should do it differently to all of the other top teams? We seem obsessed with the idea of a manager who'll be at the club for a decade of success and play beautiful football. Every club would love that, but how realistic is it?
Liverpool stagnated for decades because they spent too much time looking backwards, trying to replicate the 'boot room' days while the game moved on. What worked before doesn't always work now. United are at risk of doing that. Watching the game change and trying to recruit people who "'fit" some idea of what worked before, oblivious to the fact that it's now been years since the club have properly competed.
Imagine if all big clubs had that mentality, they would have never won anything worthwhile again much like the road we seem to be going down with ole.
I am not Pro Conte but I think, the some of the arguments here are pretty weak. I mean, what happens after Conte is not on Conte but on the club. Obviously people who think about a manager are infering that the club isn't making big mistakes. But the thing is, if we consider that a possibility, it applies to Ole as well - if he isn't backed or whoever decides to go for players Ole doesn't want, nobody would judge Ole because of it. (Heck some of the fatalists around here would go into hunger strikes I guess).
So regarding Conte leaving us in a mess - we should have the infrastructure in place to make sure that doesn't happen. Its like being worried that your son will take the car when you are gone over the weekend while you could just take the car keys with you. I agree, appointing managers with different playstyles hurt us in the past, but we just have to hope, that the club learned that lesson and will secure it never happening again.
About the squad: if anything we have a pretty flexible squad. I don't think, we would have major issues creating a Conte system. Have a look at youtube on the channel Atlantis football. He summarizes Conte and his doings, he isn't inflexible and he certainly isn't a destroyer like Mourinho. I fact, it seems like he is happy to have a great offensive as long as defense is organized and secure. That sounds pretty Fergie to me...
I agree with you, but I am not sure, how many even on here would disagree with it. I think, it is running into open doors at this point. But right now, we have no defined playstyle. It is transition-based but not defined in a crass way that we would be starstruck as soon as someone asks the players to do something different. It isn't like somebody asking ManCity to play hoofball or asking Burnley to play tiki-taka. The sentiments make sense but I think, they are a bit overstated at this point.
If anything, our squad is has the player material to make lots of systems work. Wingbacks might be an issue, ok, but with Laird, maybe not even that. Add to that, that it isn't like the "opportunity costs" would be astronomical. It isn't like we would have to abandon an awesome playstyle for some unknown, unproven stuff. I don't think, Conte would be the right person to come into the club but only because of his tendency to call out stuff. Have a look at his history, he succeeded almost everywhere, sometimes with instant changes in points totals and so on. Despite having issues at Juve and Inter, he delivered.
Great post. Couldn't agree more.
Definitely. Newcastle are the new Man City and need a top manager sharpish to start their spending spree. As for Conte at United, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He will win something. Ole, despite all his great squad building and people skills blah blah, probably won't. I would like to win something.
The race for the top four is getting harder never mind winning the PL. Eventually Newcastle will be a regular qualifier for CL alongside City. You need the best manager you can possibly get to maximise the points you can get every game. Ole ain't that type of manager. Conte is.
Conte is a serial winner. He is demanding on the board, the player, the staff and himself. He expects to win all the time. It's a fergie mentality of win, win, win. As others have explained, inter financial meltdown was outside of his control. Juventus got greedy chasing CL success that still alludes them. Chelsea fire everyone after a few seasons.
Those who think hes tied down to 352 really dont understand his tactical flexiblility and game management. Top top coach, who is relentless in his desire to win.
Conte is a serial winner. He is demanding on the board, the player, the staff and himself. He expects to win all the time. It's a fergie mentality of win, win, win. As others have explained, inter financial meltdown was outside of his control. Juventus got greedy chasing CL success that still alludes them. Chelsea fire everyone after a few seasons.
Those who think hes tied down to 352 really dont understand his tactical flexiblility and game management. Top top coach, who is relentless in his desire to win.
Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Conte borderline homesick at Chelsea? I’m remember reading somewhere that he was grinning and bearing it in London and his family stayed in Italy.
If multicultural London didn’t allievate any potential homesickness, how’s Newcastle going to be for him? Unless obviously more $$$ to go with it.
If multicultural London didn’t allievate any potential homesickness, how’s Newcastle going to be for him? Unless obviously more $$$ to go with it.
Not true. We just need a WB signing to play 343 or 3412. Conte or not,we need a right back anyway .
That was initially as his family hadnt moved with him.
Chelsea did okay though, isn't it?
Conte is nothing like Jose. Moreover our issue was LVG possession based approach. Both Moyes and Jose was similar in terms of playing style.
I am at a loss to see how Ole isn't a worse option than Conte.
Would I take Conte at United (if things continue to spiral downwards with Ole) ?
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, probably.
It means exactly what it says. Only someone clueless simply hires someone for their CV alone. Despite what some people think, being a cultural fit for a football club (or a business) is hugely important and plays a massive role in determining success. I don't care how good a CV Mourinho had, he was never the right fit for Utd which is ultimately why he was a failure. Conte is a world class manager, he's just not a Manchester Utd manager and I would bet good money he wouldn't be an overall success here.
We have had a recent thread on here about the Utd way holding us back. That couldn't be further from the truth, what has held us back is trying so hard to move in all sorts of directions rather than being patient and following a strategic vision for the club. Ole has done a great job despite what some fans will say and he's put down the foundations for continued success if the Hierarchy are smart. Changing approach and resetting all of that again for a short term manager like Conte, who is clearly so far from our cultural and tactical values is a massive backwards step.
Then I'm just glad you don't run the club and I hope you don't run a business!
Wow so a manager going nowhere who has spent unparalleled funds and has not improved the club is a more sensible option than someone with a proven track record of winning the league in high pressure situations time and again?
I don't think Conte is a perfect fit for United at all, but to say Ole is a better option just seems daft.
We have probably the worst manager in the league.
With the exception of Steve Bruce at Newcastle there isn't another club in the PL that would trade managers with us.
Yes, I get it lets pretend Ole has done no good for the club. Seems popular on here but I can't be arsed with it so have a good weekend.
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