Of course, why would we worry about circuits than has already been done on the calendar?
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
In clean air on on a dry track the Merc is the faster car and has been all season. The ones driving it just haven't been on their game enough.
The high altitude tracks will obviously be a different case.
The high altitude tracks will obviously be a different case.
The luck Hamilton vs Verstappen - breakdown:
Italy - Hamilton runs into a wall and was set to come out dead last, also needing repairs and would not have any points - BEFORE Bottas instantly saved him by crashing with Russell causing a red flag, free repairs and no more positions lost for Lewis.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +19 (VER 25, HAM 19)
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Baku - Verstappen looking to win the race and take 25 points vs Hamiltons 15 before his tire blow out.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +10 (VER 0, HAM 0)
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Silverstone - Max leading the race setting to bag 25 vs 18 point to Lewis, before Lewis is causing a collision and is deemed guilty.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +32 (VER 25, HAM 18 - became HAM 25, VER 0)
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Hungary - Hamilton looking set to win and take 25 vs 18 Vs Verstappen before Bottas takes out both Red Bulls.
Points gained by Hamilton in the championship: +18
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Monza - Hamilton set to score more points than Max before the collision. HAM 12 - VER 10)
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +2
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Russia - Verstappen set to finish 7th and Hamilton 2nd before the rain comes in, HAM 18, VER 6 becames HAM 25, VER 18.
Points gained by Verstappen in the championship: +3
Total summary of points gained by sheer luck: Points gained by Lews 79 Vs Points gained for Verstappen 5.
Note, you could even note any points gained by Verstappen in Russia should not count because the engine change was a direct result of a Hamilton punished error, meaning Hamilton was responsible and lucky Max had to take an engine penalty.
If luck was not a thing the current championship standings would be:
Verstappen: 346.5
Hamilton: 262.5
Which leads us to The Hiltons next point:
You are absoulely right Max would have already clinched the WDC-title if not for all the bad luck explained above, but you are wrong about the reasons.
The reason Max would have won is that Lewis has made so many errors that without incredible luck would have given Max an aprox 70 point swing in the championship.
Mercedes has had the better race pace except for Baku and Monaco, Bahrain and Red Bull Ring x2. At Zandenvort Red Bull won on strategy, the Mercs were insanely quick.
Conclusion, the reason Verstappen should have clinched the title already is not because Red Bulls car has been better than Mercedes on the whole, its because Lewis has made endless of errors that he was incredible lucky not to pay for. Verstappen has been pretty much error free and outpeformed Lewis in every capacity, sadly that might not be enough to win the title because of Mercs unreal engine advantage.
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Its clear that since Mercedes were beaten convincingly by Red Bull at Red Bull ring they brought their engine to another level and has since then been the clear faster car. And the gaps seems to have increased since then even with the Red Bulls being outclassed in the dry in Turkey.
Mercedes are great favourites to win the title as Red Bull has no answer for the Mercs engine advantage which they have enjoyed since 2014. Hamilton having his worst season making mistake after mistake has kept it close, but with the current car advantage Mercedes has, I cant see how Hamilton can not end up winning the title in the end. Mercedes is doing what they have done every year in the hybrid wera - BLOWING the competition out of the water in the 2nd half of the season, and turning their engine up when needed, they´ve got plenty in reserve.
The amount of laps and races where Hamilton has ran at the back of Verstappen with pace in hand is enormous, basicly running in dirty air for almost entire races and still having the tires to easily follow Max. If Max had not made so many amazing starts in the beginning of the season Lewis would have cruised to a couple of more victories since the Merc had a clear race pace advantage at many tracks were Max snatched pole position.
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Not true at all. The RB has been class of the field all season. The Silverstone upgrades brought Mercedes closer to RB.
However it all comes down to the tracks themselves and getting the tyres in the right operating window. The next few tracks favour the RB.
If people think max is the underdog they should have a look at the bookies odds, as max is the clear favourite to win the WDC with the bookies and has been for a while.
4/6 odds on and 4/7 odds on with most bookies. Bookies are stupid, if they are going with such short odds for max then max is the favourite.
Where exactly do you get the idea that the Silverstone upgrade was at the expense of race pace? There is not a shred of evidence to support that.
Obviously the Mercedes car is now a class of the field, and indeed the Silverstone upgrade was indeed massive. Look at the data, and how the average gap between them and other teams (not just Red Bull) has exploded.
We wouldn't, it was just the way it was worded. Just wanted to check.
The evidence was the actual race, it was quicker in qualifying but much slower in the race. Merc then lost the next few races whenever Max actually finished.
The Merc has been faster in the last 2 races, one of which is known to suit the car better, and now we're heading to tracks that suit the RB. If Merc are still faster there, then you may have a point.
However, the idea that Merc were faster since Silverstone is demonstrably false, the Red Bull has been faster everywhere until Sochi.
It's actually impressive how much effort you've put into this post just to defend the honour of your beloved Max, filled with enough hyperbole to power a warp engine, and it's also very selective with regards to what constitutes luck in order to exaggerate, but I'm not gonna argue that stuff because you've spectacularly missed the point - as you've said yourself, the most recent gains due to luck were Max's, and the original post was that Lewis needs that luck to change - nothing to do with previous luck in the season, just that Max had some good luck recently.
As for your comment about Mercedes having better race pace, it's just silly, the Mercs have been behind most of the year, and have only recently managed to get ahead (and it remains to be seen if that was due to the tracks).
I actually agree that Max has been the better driver this year, although not error free, but he's definitely had the better car. No shame in that, as most champions do.
This thread sadly has returned to the lower standard of debate again.
Fair points.
Not much right in your post:
1. I am Ferrari fan, not a Verstappen fan
2. I was not selective about what was luck, I could have excluded everything stemming from Lewis taking Max out at Silverstone but I did not.
3. Oh, the Mercs have been behind all year, and yet have a clear lead in the WCC.
The Mercs have been behind all year, but still 99% of all practices and Q sessions have ended:
Hamilton, Verstappen, Bottas in top 3. (in various order)
And then Perez somewhere between place 4 to 10.
So either both Lewis and Bottas have pulled of miracles each practice session or the Merc have not been behind as being claimed by only Lewis fans and the british media. Its much more likely its Verstappen that has made the difference and taken the Red Bull to where it does not belong. See Perez.
Only on a british forum full of Hamilton fans making things up to prop up their beloved Lewis is it possible to get to the conclusion that Red Bull definitely have had the better car, absolutely ridiculous.
The only reason I got involved in this is because I see so much horsecrap posted about the Merc being such underdogs and Red Bull having a car advantage, which is clearly not true.
I do not see that on any north american or scandinavian F1 forums I visit, only on british ones, what a coincidence.
Yawn, another essay, all because you can't understand what "recent luck" means. Anyway given that you act like practice is more important than actual race pace to pretend the RB is slower than it is there's not much point in going into your post, the Merc could have a top speed of 10mph and you'd pretend it's the faster car.
Wrong, its demonstrably correct. Infordin is on point.
Hungary. Mercs were quicker and Lewis were set to win even if Bottas has not taken the Red Bulls out.
Belgium. Mercs were quicker in practice before the rain came, and then Lewis messed up qualifying and there was no race.
Netherlands. Very even, Max had Lewis in his gearbox all race long and managed to win by the smallest margin. Lewis would have won easily if he had free air.
Italy, Mercs were clearly dominant over Red Bull, Hamilton was expected to pull away from Max after the pitstops, even Lewis own fans admitted that as they were enraged by the fact that Verstappen "stole a win from Lewis".
So basicly 3 races Mercs were quicker, and 1 were even with Merc clearly having more pace in hand but Verstappen managed to block Lewis from overtaking,and you are claiming Red Bull was quicker at all 4, completely absurd.
Oh my god you're a religious zealot. It's not enough to write essays pumped full of hyperbole when replying in our conversation, you have to interject into my conversations with other people as well. You're far too emotionally attached to the idea that the Merc has been faster, when it's been the second best car on track most of the year.
You are too emotionally attached to your beloved Lews to actually comprehend obvious facts clearly, but go ahead and live in an alternative pro-Lewis universe.
Such a child.
Leave me alone now please, annoy someone else with your anti Hamilton raging.
Its hilarious, you were the one starting with the "beloved one" and then you could not take it when you got it back. So you just labeled yourself a child, funny how it goes.
Such a child.
Leave me alone now please, annoy someone else with your anti Hamilton raging.
Flawless logic! I did get your motivation wrong though, I thought you were a pro Verstappen nutcase, when you're actually an anti Hamilton nutcase. Either way, you're living in a fantasy world ignoring how much faster the Red Bull has been most of the season.
Definitely, you were the one starting with personal insults instead of debating the topic, and then when I answered with the same BS, you got upset and called me a child, that was really childish of you.
Yeah, its amazing how Merc has that solid lead in the WCC when they allegedly have been less fast for most the year, really mindblowing the miracles The Benz have performed!
Hi I'm Lightbringer and I have a pathological need to continuously bash Lewis Hamilton to people who didn't ask for my opinion.
This is why I also believe that Mercedes is quicker than Red Bull. Bottas is constantly faster than Perez and by a good margin too.
Could the two of you please take it to PM to avoid derailing the thread.
All the progress of the last few weeks lost. Funny how it all went south though only once a couple posters who hadn’t posted in that time have come back. Anyway, ill be staying away again until some sense returns.
I've added the other poster to the ignore list, but you really can't put us in the same boat given that half my posts in the conversation were asking to be left alone.
Both Max & Hamilton have driven superbly this year, as evidenced by their huge points & performance margins to their teammates.
Both Mercedes & Red Bull have built brilliant machinery, pretty much maxing out the potential of the current regs at the end of their era and are neck & neck in terms of performance.
Enjoy the title run in. It’s not normally this close and fought between such worthy adversaries (both teams & drivers). People have their driver preferences and one will ultimately lose out at the end of the year, but guess what? We get to do it all again next year!
Both Mercedes & Red Bull have built brilliant machinery, pretty much maxing out the potential of the current regs at the end of their era and are neck & neck in terms of performance.
Enjoy the title run in. It’s not normally this close and fought between such worthy adversaries (both teams & drivers). People have their driver preferences and one will ultimately lose out at the end of the year, but guess what? We get to do it all again next year!
… when, in classic F1 style, the rule changes will probably mean there is one dominant team again
That would be awful, but given how restrictive the rules are and the noises coming out of the manufacturers, I'm pretty hopeful that it's going to really level the playing field.… when, in classic F1 style, the rule changes will probably mean there is one dominant team again
If they do work, it'll be brilliant having every driver with a shot at winning.
100%. I look forward to Lance Stroll winning the next 5 titles at a canter… when, in classic F1 style, the rule changes will probably mean there is one dominant team again
Lewis being most popular in 45 + and most in Brazil is news to me.
Monaco being in the GPs remain critical to all fans is rather sad.
Just 6.7% agreed that the “introduction of sprint race has improved the show". Surprised it's that high but they apparently want more next year.
Monaco being in the GPs remain critical to all fans is rather sad.
Just 6.7% agreed that the “introduction of sprint race has improved the show". Surprised it's that high but they apparently want more next year.
Bottas with another new internal combustion unit for Austin.
That's three Mercedes-powered cars with grid drops this weekend now. Aston Martin's Sebastian Vettel and Williams' George Russell are having multiple parts changed on their power units so they'll be starting down at the back on Sunday.
That's three Mercedes-powered cars with grid drops this weekend now. Aston Martin's Sebastian Vettel and Williams' George Russell are having multiple parts changed on their power units so they'll be starting down at the back on Sunday.
US GP FP1
United States GP Practice One Timesheet
| Driver | Team | Time |
|---|---|---|
| 1) Valtteri Bottas | Mercedes | 1:34.874 |
| 2) Lewis Hamilton | Mercedes | +0.045 |
| 3) Max Verstappen | Red Bull | +0.932 |
| 4) Charles Leclerc | Ferrari | +1.460 |
| 5) Carlos Sainz | Ferrari | +1.634 |
| 6) Pierre Gasly | AlphaTauri | +1.737 |
| 7) Sergio Perez | Red Bull | +1.924 |
| 8) Lando Norris | McLaren | +1.981 |
| 9) Antonio Giovinazzi | Alfa Romeo | +2.000 |
| 10) Kimi Raikkonen | Alfa Romeo | +2.002 |
| 11) George Russell | Williams | +2.092 |
| 12) Esteban Ocon | Alpine | +2.096 |
| 13) Lance Stroll | Aston Martin | +2.098 |
| 14) Sebastian Vettel | Aston Martin | +2.108 |
| 15) Fernando Alonso | Alpine | +2.194 |
| 16) Daniel Ricciardo | McLaren | +2.584 |
| 17) Nicholas Latifi | Williams | +2.589 |
| 18) Yuki Tsunoda | AlphaTauri | +3.080 |
| 19) Mick Schumacher | Haas | +3.992 |
| 20) Nikita Mazepin | Haas | +7.365 |
Big time difference … any particular reason?
Yes, Mercedes are very quick.
Mercedes appear to have figured out the rear suspension trick.
Mercedes pretty much confirming the recent thoughts that they have a much faster car, this is surely their championship now without mistakes. Those accidents with Max really mattered in the end unless Red Bull can pull some development out of thin air.
Interesting how Bottas has had to change his engine more than Hamilton.
Interesting how Bottas has had to change his engine more than Hamilton.
Teammates could be really important in the title race. Nicking a spot off Verstappen in a race or two could hand Hamilton the title so I suspect it's to let Bottas run at higher engine settings in the last few races.
WOW that is a cleaver trick.
I bet Horner is fuming, but if they have found a way to over come the rule change , good luck to them.
Well second practice sure was interesting.