Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Pickle85]

He's only played 8 games for PSG yet, again that's the problem with judging things off a few months. 8 games out of 1,000 in a career. Still scored the winner against Man City, which was the best team he's played this season.

But those are the only eight games we have to judge him in club football outside of Barcelona. He's been average at best. Again, you really shouldn't be surprised that people will start moving towards conclusions.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm talking about what is currently making people change their minds. It's got feck all to do with him playing for Utd. What he is doing right now is more impressive than Messi but obviously these opinions aren't set in stone and evolve for a lot of people.
Performing for this sorry Man Utd team is more impressive

Ronaldo’s definitely a better player right now. I’d be amazed if anyone would disagree with that. There’s also a good chance Messi is going to remain inferior from now on. Players age at different rates.

The only debate to be had is who was a better player at their peak and whether longevity should be taken into account in judging the best player overall.

(messi and no IMO)

 

[Daysleeper]

He's only played 8 games for PSG yet, again that's the problem with judging things off a few months. 8 games out of 1,000 in a career. Still scored the winner against Man City, which was the best team he's played this season.

Spot on as well, I feel like Messi hasn’t looked right since injuring himself in the Copa semi final

 

[Pickle85]

Spot on. I think I Messi has been good in CL for psg, and it’s early days but his league play needs to step up. PSG aren’t as good in the league as their record suggests right now

Yup, agreed. I do think he'll be great - he's a brilliant player - but it's no surprise that his club form so far has provoked comment.

 

[Lord SInister]

Serie a with Juventus is like winning bundesliga with Bayern. When a team wins it 7-8 straight times without you the trophy absolutely gets diminished.

it’s the same thing with Messi at his current setup being CL or bust. Even though psg failed to win the league last year, when they joined these one horse leagues this is the downside.

I wouldn’t call Ronaldo at Juventus a failure at all, but Juve getting knocked out earlier than ever in CL since he joined had to sting considering expectations the same way it will sting when psg may not even make the final with the players they got

But Juventus really showed Ronaldo a reality check of what poor management and coaching can do as leaving Madrid was a massive mistake.

if we are being honest, as much as it pains me to say it, Messi also should have left Barca sooner, some woefully mismanaged years from our club as I think both him and Ronaldo can get you a CL in the right circumstances and competence which neither have had for many years now

To keep winning is the most hard thing to do, we cannot just diminish things because of whatever standard someone has set.

Juventus doing not much in UCL if we can see was clearly Juventus not being good enough than Ronaldo failing, he actually bailed them out many times. I think it is just unfair.

It is similar to people blaming Messi for Barcelona's failures in CL, when anyone watching the games could clearly see that if Messi was not there, they would not have even reached those stages. 2017/18 and 2018/19 season, arguably the best seasons Messi ever had given how underwhelming the rest of the team was(apart from Suarez chipping in with goals in La Liga and Ter Stegan being the rock in the back), he was literally carrying them, was easily outed by many people aside with people gunning for Modric and Van Dijk for the Ballon Dor(yes Messi won, but we still have many who believe Messi dint deserve because one game, namely Liverpool), even though Messi in those two seasons did which many great players cannot even imagine to do.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The Copa America is a much inferior tournament to the Euros where almost all the best teams in the world compete, and Brazil currently have one of their weakest national teams in living memory whereas Argentina have, on paper, one of their best since Maradona. Furthermore, France went on to win the fecking World Cup with basically the same team that Portugal beat in the final. In what possible world was it more impressive for Argentina to beat Brazil in the Copa than for Portugal to beat France at the Euros?

Brazil have 31 out of 33 points in South American qualifying, they won 5 of their previous 6 games in the Copa America. So they've won 16 of their last 18 competitive games. It's far from their worst team in living memory.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Definitely take la liga over Serie a where serie a had the same winner 8 years in a row, no question

Your quote:

he hasn’t won a meaningful trophy since 2018

Assuming you actually mean 2019 as he won the CL in 2018....He has won Serie A x 2, Super Coppa x 2, Coppa, Nations League. Obviously some of those aren't majors but Messi has won 1 LL, 1 CDR and 1 Copa...

Both players are on the decline but dismissing Serie A is silly when LL has been declining and, ironically given your critique of Ronaldo, basically having the league's reputation propped up by Real's CL exploits which were in large part down to Ronaldo.

 

[Daysleeper]

To keep winning is the most hard thing to do, we cannot just diminish things because of whatever standard someone has set.

Juventus doing not much in UCL if we can see was clearly Juventus not being good enough than Ronaldo failing, he actually bailed them out many times. I think it is just unfair.

It is similar to people blaming Messi for Barcelona's failures in CL, when anyone watching the games could clearly see that if Messi was not there, they would not have even reached those stages. 2017/18 and 2018/19 season, arguably the best seasons Messi ever had given how underwhelming the rest of the team was(apart from Suarez chipping in with goals in La Liga and Ter Stegan being the rock in the back), he was literally carrying them, was easily outed by many people aside with people gunning for Modric and Van Dijk for the Ballon Dor(yes Messi won, but we still have many who believe Messi dint deserve because one game, namely Liverpool), even though Messi in those two seasons did which many great players cannot even imagine to do.

I agree with you completely on many of your points, but it is the harsh reality that these other trophies do get diminished. As I said before would Messi winning the French league even if psg didn’t win it last year really move the needle?

I also completely agree Juve failings weren’t down to Ronaldo, but I do think people will look back on his time at Juve a bit underwhelming mostly because I early CL exits to a few teams where Juve were the favorites heading into the tie. Same with where Messi gets criticism when Barca get annihilated in CL even though the season should be looked at as a whole like you said.

I dknt think Ronaldo was a failure at Juventus, but I dont think Juventus signed him saying we need to win serie a. I mean they’ve won it so much and obviously liked to continue winning it but they had their eyes set on CL glory.

same with psg signing Messi.

 

[Lord SInister]

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The Copa America is a much inferior tournament to the Euros where almost all the best players in the world compete. There's a reason the Copa nearly always has one of those two countries in the final, and frequently both: there's only two really big footballing nations in South America. Brazil currently have one of their weakest national teams in living memory whereas Argentina have, on paper, one of their best since Maradona. Furthermore, France went on to win the fecking World Cup with basically the same team that Portugal beat in the final. In what possible world was it more impressive for Argentina to beat Brazil in the Copa than for Portugal to beat France at the Euros?

How does Argentina have a great team, who is there in that team, apart from Di Maria, you will call a great player?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Ronaldo’s definitely a better player right now. I’d be amazed if anyone would disagree with that. There’s also a good chance Messi is going to remain inferior from now on. Players age at different rates.

The only debate to be had is who was a better player at their peak and whether longevity should be taken into account in judging the best player overall.

(messi and no IMO)

But what constitutes right now? What's the timeframe? Last couple of months, it's Ronaldo. Last year, it's probably still Messi, and that's why Messi is the one in Ballon d'Or contention, not Ronaldo. And also I don't think it's that likely that Messi will remain inferior from now on. Ronaldo will be 37 soon, he's cheated time enough already but there's only so long. Those two and a bit years should make a difference.

 

[Daysleeper]

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The Copa America is a much inferior tournament to the Euros where almost all the best players in the world compete. There's a reason the Copa nearly always has one of those two countries in the final, and frequently both: there's only two really big footballing nations in South America. Brazil currently have one of their weakest national teams in living memory whereas Argentina have, on paper, one of their best since Maradona. Furthermore, France went on to win the fecking World Cup with basically the same team that Portugal beat in the final. In what possible world was it more impressive for Argentina to beat Brazil in the Copa than for Portugal to beat France at the Euros? Argentina beating Brazil was just an ordinary 50/50 affair whereas Portugal winning the Euros final against France was a monumental, historical accomplishment. Your take is beyond bizarre.

Completely wrong. This was a very good Brazil side, their best since 2014 before Neymar got injured. They also haven’t lost at that stadium on their own soil:

Brazil have not tasted defeat at the Maracanã in a competitive game, winning 22 and drawing six matches at the stadium. Brazil have also won three trophies at the Maracanã: the Copa América in 1989 and 2019, and the Confederations Cup in 2013.


Brazil have not lost on home soil in Copa America since 1949.

 

[kouroux]

Ronaldo’s definitely a better player right now. I’d be amazed if anyone would disagree with that. There’s also a good chance Messi is going to remain inferior from now on. Players age at different rates.

The only debate to be had is who was a better player at their peak and whether longevity should be taken into account in judging the best player overall.

(messi and no IMO)

Thank you. It's exactly what I'm saying. I have no issue with people going for either of them or flip flopping depending on performances.
I always say this that at their peak, I'd go for Messi because it's a personal choice for the type of footballer he is but when the going gets tough and if I want a player to snatch me a win out of nowhere, it's Ronaldo 100%

 

[Pogue Mahone]

But what constitutes right now? What's the timeframe? Last couple of months, it's Ronaldo. Last year, it's probably still Messi, and that's why Messi is the one in Ballon d'Or contention, not Ronaldo. And also I don't think it's that likely that Messi will remain inferior from now on. Ronaldo will be 37 soon, he's cheated time enough already but there's only so long. Those two and a bit years should make a difference.

Right now meaning the current season.

 

[Dansk]

Brazil have 31 out of 33 points in South American qualifying, they won 5 of their previous 6 games in the Copa America. So they've won 16 of their last 18 competitive games. It's far from their worst team in living memory.

Brazil play most of their international games against the likes of Venezuela and Peru. They've been winning the vast majority of these games for the literal entire history of this sport. Looking at their actual team instead of blindly prattling off numbers, it's beyond dispute that this is one of the least impressive Brazil sides ever. They have one big player. One. They haven't come even slightly close to winning the WC since they won it almost twenty years ago. This is quite possibly the weakest Brazil side ever. There's an unusually small number of great Brazilian players in this generation. Neymar is legitimately the only one who truly stands out. Thiago Silva, their captain, is 37 years old.

 

[Daysleeper]

Brazil play most of their international games against the likes of Venezuela and Peru. They've been winning the vast majority of these games for the literal entire history of this sport. Looking at their actual team instead of blindly prattling off numbers, it's beyond dispute that this is one of the least impressive Brazil sides ever. They have one big player. One.

Rubbish again, defending euro champs Portugal got knocked out by a Copa America team in Uruguay in the 2018 WC, as well as in the federations cups to Chile

Copa America on average has far less fodder than euro qualifying and its not even close. It’s also more so difficult for WC qualifying than qualifying for the WC in Europe.

 

[Dansk]

If you base your entire view of football on the outcomes of single individual matches, there's no reason to try and discuss anything with you.

Regardless, at no point have I said that Portugal is the best team. On the contrary, I'm saying that them beating France in the Euros final was a bigger accomplishment than Argentina beating Brazil in the Copa final. Some nutter said that Argentina winning the Copa was a bigger deal than Portugal winning the Euros, which is pants-on-head absurd.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Brazil play most of their international games against the likes of Venezuela and Peru. They've been winning the vast majority of these games for the literal entire history of this sport. Looking at their actual team instead of blindly prattling off numbers, it's beyond dispute that this is one of the least impressive Brazil sides ever. They have one big player. One. They haven't come even slightly close to winning the WC since they won it almost twenty years ago. This is quite possibly the weakest Brazil side ever.

Neymar aside, one of the best players in international football in the world - Alisson is one of the best goalkeepers they've ever had, Ederson up there. Marquinhos is one of the best centre-backs in the world. Casemiro and Fabinho is about as good of a DM option as you could possibly have. They then have lots of good players that would get in the vast majority of other national teams.

 

[cyberman]

If you base your entire view of football on the outcomes of single individual matches, there's no reason to try and discuss anything with you.

Regardless, at no point have I said that Portugal is the best team. On the contrary, I'm saying that them beating France in the Euros final was a bigger accomplishment than Argentina beating Brazil in the Copa final. Some nutter said that Argentina winning the Copa was a bigger deal than Portugal winning the Euros, which is pants-on-head absurd.

Copa America lost a lot of its shine when it went on it’s disastrous tour of North America and nobody gave a feck about it.
Remember the hype when Chile won it? Me neither

 

[Henandez14]

Why do I see all these posts presuming that Ronaldo will have better longevity than Messi because he's a great athlete, when historically, the more technical players have always aged better?

Off the top of my head,
Athletic cohort;
Zlatan
Ronaldo
Robben?

Technical cohort;
Our very own Giggs
Our very own Scholes
Pirlo
Our very own Carrick
The legendary Totti
The legendary Zidane
Romario
(I don't know where to place Maldini)

It's always been that way, where players that maintained a high level of athleticism into their late 30s were seen as freaks, while it was normal for technical players to play till their 40s. Messi has relied on both athleticism (crazy changes of pace, feints, abrupt stops, riding challenges) in the past.
But in these latter stages of his career he has developed his technical game in a way that should be impossible for an old player(players don't usually learn or develop technique).

In summary, no he won't drop of a cliff in terms of performances, but he won't be the same player he was in 2012 either. We'll probably all see a brand new iteration of Messi we hadn't seen before.

Cr7 is a freak though.

[Edit. I do fear for Messi in terms of his desire to continue. He seems like the kind of guy that gets homesick and he currently doesn't look like he's at home at PSG. If he never left Barca I would bet my mother on him playing till 40. But as it stands, I can only bet my girlfriend]

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Copa America lost a lot of its shine when it went on it’s disastrous tour of North America and nobody gave a feck about it.
Remember the hype when Chile won it? Me neither

But Messi can't play in the European Championships, so it's only fair when you compare two players from confederations that you compare in the confederation tournaments they're eligible to play in? If we are having a Salah vs Ronaldo argument, then the African Cup of Nations should count. It's the only way of somewhat fairly comparing players internationally. If you don't want to do that, then ditch what they've done in regional tournaments and put it down to how they did in the World Cup alone.

 

[Gehrman]

Why do I see all these posts presuming that Ronaldo will have better longevity than Messi because he's a great athlete, when historically, the more technical players have always aged better?

Off the top of my head,
Athletic cohort;
Zlatan
Ronaldo
Robben?

Technical cohort;
Our very own Giggs
Our very own Scholes
Pirlo
Our very own Carrick
The legendary Totti
The legendary Zidane
Romario
(I don't know where to place Maldini)

It's always been that way, where players that maintained a high level of athleticism into their late 30s were seen as freaks, while it was normal for technical players to play till their 40s. Messi has relied on both athleticism (crazy changes of pace, feints, abrupt stops, riding challenges) in the past.
But in these latter stages of his career he has developed his technical game in a way that should be impossible for an old player(players don't usually learn or develop technique).

In summary, no he won't drop of a cliff in terms of performances, but he won't be the same player he was in 2012 either. We'll probably all see a brand new iteration of Messi we hadn't seen before.

Cr7 is a freak though.

[Edit. I do fear for Messi in terms of his desire to continue. He seems like the kind of guy that gets homesick and he currently doesn't look like he's at home at PSG. If he never left Barca I would bet my mother on him playing till 40. But as it stands, I can only bet my girlfriend]

Well because as you said Ronaldo is freak and Messi is expected to be prolific. The technical players you mentioned werent great goal scorers.

 

[cyberman]

But Messi can't play in the European Championships, so it's only fair when you compare two players from confederations that you compare in the confederation tournaments they're eligible to play in? If we are having a Salah vs Ronaldo argument, then the African Cup of Nations should count. It's the only way of somewhat fairly comparing players internationally. If you don't want to do that, then ditch what they've done in regional tournaments and put it down to how they did in the World Cup alone.

It’s not fair but it’s all we have and it’s where there is nuance allowed in the argument. It can be evened out by saying Messi should have more Copa wins to make it up to Ronaldos EC win since it isn’t fair that Messi plays in an easier, Secondary championship

 

[Henandez14]

Well because as you said Ronaldo is freak and Messi is expected to be prolific. The technical players you mentioned werent great goal scorers.

637 pages show that Messi doesn't offer only goalscoring. Neither does he need to score goals to be the best. [Romario did score goals but I don't want to argue]

{Edit. Most Neutral lovers of football would agree that they don't expect Messi to be prolific.(He still is) The issue of goals only comes up when comparing him with Ronaldo because that's one of the few areas where they can actually be compared}

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

It’s not fair but it’s all we have and it’s where there is nuance allowed in the argument. It can be evened out by saying Messi should have more Copa wins to make it up to Ronaldos EC win since it isn’t fair that Messi plays in an easier, Secondary championship

Messi should have at least one more Copa, but he's still one of the best players in Copa America history. He has 3 Best Player of the Tournament awards in the Copa America and World Cup and 5 Team of the Tournaments. Ronaldo has 0 Best Player awards and 3 Team of the Tournaments (2 of which were bloated, best Euros 23 squad awards). So now he has one Copa, I don't think it should be a major issue.

 

[Gehrman]

637 pages show that Messi doesn't offer only goalscoring. Neither does he need to score goals to be the best. [Romario did score goals but I don't want to argue]

{Edit. Most Neutral lovers of football would agree that they don't expect Messi to be prolific.(He still is) The issue of goals only comes up when comparing him with Ronaldo because that's one of the few areas where they can actually be compared}

No but goalscoring makes headlines whilst nice passing and stuff doesnt.

 

[Henandez14]

No but goalscoring makes headlines whilst nice passing and stuff doesnt.

I'm sure those players on my list, who weren't great goal scorers (in your words) still made headlines, or they wouldn't be that famous

 

[MrEleson]

Why do I see all these posts presuming that Ronaldo will have better longevity than Messi because he's a great athlete, when historically, the more technical players have always aged better?

Off the top of my head,
Athletic cohort;
Zlatan
Ronaldo
Robben?

Technical cohort;
Our very own Giggs
Our very own Scholes
Pirlo
Our very own Carrick
The legendary Totti
The legendary Zidane
Romario
(I don't know where to place Maldini)

It's always been that way, where players that maintained a high level of athleticism into their late 30s were seen as freaks, while it was normal for technical players to play till their 40s. Messi has relied on both athleticism (crazy changes of pace, feints, abrupt stops, riding challenges) in the past.
But in these latter stages of his career he has developed his technical game in a way that should be impossible for an old player(players don't usually learn or develop technique).

In summary, no he won't drop of a cliff in terms of performances, but he won't be the same player he was in 2012 either. We'll probably all see a brand new iteration of Messi we hadn't seen before.

Cr7 is a freak though.

[Edit. I do fear for Messi in terms of his desire to continue. He seems like the kind of guy that gets homesick and he currently doesn't look like he's at home at PSG. If he never left Barca I would bet my mother on him playing till 40. But as it stands, I can only bet my girlfriend]

What your saying doesn’t make sense considering you have Giggs in the technical cohort and Ronaldo in the physical cohort yet Ronaldo right now is a far far better player than Giggs was at the same age. Giggs’ longevity was him still playing for United in a bit-part role at an advanced age while Ronaldo’s longevity is him being the best and most important player on the team at the same age and still in the top 5 players on the planet. Completely different levels.

 

[Gehrman]

I'm sure those players on my list, who weren't great goal scorers (in your words) still made headlines, or they wouldn't be that famous

The expectations on Messi is still different and he's a very different player to all the players in that list. If Messi's goalscoring is halved he'll be considered finished most spectators. Anyway for all we know, Messi might still win the 2021 Ballon D'or(although I think Lewandowski will win it), but I can't see maintaining his level past 35. Iniesta couldn't, Xavi couldn't. Most players can't. For all his innate ability, his legs will go and I think his hunger is different from Ronaldo's although Messi has also defied expectations all the time. I expect him to retire from European football at 36 then go to the MLS. I think the Rivalry definitely effects him, but I think at 36 he'll stop caring.

 

[Wolf1992]

That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The Copa America is a much inferior tournament to the Euros where almost all the best players in the world compete. There's a reason the Copa nearly always has one of those two countries in the final, and frequently both: there's only two really big footballing nations in South America. Brazil currently have one of their weakest national teams in living memory whereas Argentina have, on paper, one of their best since Maradona. Furthermore, France went on to win the fecking World Cup with basically the same team that Portugal beat in the final. In what possible world was it more impressive for Argentina to beat Brazil in the Copa than for Portugal to beat France at the Euros? Argentina beating Brazil was just an ordinary 50/50 affair whereas Portugal winning the Euros final against France was a monumental, historical accomplishment. Your take is beyond bizarre.

It's like saying that Liverpool winning the league for the first time in 30 years is a bigger deal than Leicester winning it.

It wasn't the same team.

No Mbappe, no Pavard, no Lucas Hernandez, and no Varane...who were very important to France title in 2018.
Definitely not the same team.

The Brazil team that lost the final to Argentina is definitely better than France 2016, and Brazil historically is 2 tiers above France as football nation, they are the biggest football nation in History.
For Argentina to win a final in Maracana is massive, is their biggest rival, Portugal doesn't even have any rivalry with France.
Imagine United winning the EPL at Anfield....yes THAT massive.

And big reminder that Cristiano barely played that final cause he got injured at 20 min, at least Messi was present on the pitch.

Plus Messi won best player of the tournament over Neymar and Suarez, Cristiano wasn't chosen best player of Euro 2016, Griezmann was.
Portugal best player was Pepe.

 

[MrEleson]

The Brazil team that lost the final to Argentina is definitely better than France 2016, and Brazil historically is 2 tiers above France as football nation, they are the biggest nation in History.
For Argentina to win a final in Maracana is massive, is their biggest rival, Portugal doesn't even have any rivalry with France.

Nonsensical. The core of the team was the same and in no way were they inferior to this year’s Brazil.

 

[Wolf1992]

Brazil play most of their international games against the likes of Venezuela and Peru. They've been winning the vast majority of these games for the literal entire history of this sport. Looking at their actual team instead of blindly prattling off numbers, it's beyond dispute that this is one of the least impressive Brazil sides ever. They have one big player. One. They haven't come even slightly close to winning the WC since they won it almost twenty years ago. This is quite possibly the weakest Brazil side ever. There's an unusually small number of great Brazilian players in this generation. Neymar is legitimately the only one who truly stands out. Thiago Silva, their captain, is 37 years old.

And Cristiano has stat-padded goals against San Marino, Luxembourg,Feroe Islands,Latvia,Lithuania,Andorra,etc in Euro WC qualifyings...half his goals at international level are against those sides.

There isn't a team in Conmebol as bad as Andorra and San Marino, which aren't fully professional btw.
Bolivia is the worst on Conmebol, but at least they are 100% profesional.
Andorra, Gibraltar, and San Marino don't even have 100% profesional squad.

 

[Henandez14]

What your saying doesn’t make sense considering you have Giggs in the technical cohort and Ronaldo in the physical cohort yet Ronaldo right now is a far far better player than Giggs was at the same age. Giggs’ longevity was him still playing for United in a bit-part role at an advanced age while Ronaldo’s longevity is him being the best and most important player on the team at the same age and still in the top 5 players on the planet. Completely different levels.

So cross Giggs out then. How about the rest?

 

[Jericho]

But those are the only eight games we have to judge him in club football outside of Barcelona. He's been average at best. Again, you really shouldn't be surprised that people will start moving towards conclusions.

For precisely that reason it makes sense to reserve judgement.

 

[CrockedRain]

Why do I see all these posts presuming that Ronaldo will have better longevity than Messi because he's a great athlete, when historically, the more technical players have always aged better?

Off the top of my head,
Athletic cohort;
Zlatan
Ronaldo
Robben?

Technical cohort;
Our very own Giggs
Our very own Scholes
Pirlo
Our very own Carrick
The legendary Totti
The legendary Zidane
Romario
(I don't know where to place Maldini)

It's always been that way, where players that maintained a high level of athleticism into their late 30s were seen as freaks, while it was normal for technical players to play till their 40s. Messi has relied on both athleticism (crazy changes of pace, feints, abrupt stops, riding challenges) in the past.
But in these latter stages of his career he has developed his technical game in a way that should be impossible for an old player(players don't usually learn or develop technique).

In summary, no he won't drop of a cliff in terms of performances, but he won't be the same player he was in 2012 either. We'll probably all see a brand new iteration of Messi we hadn't seen before.

Cr7 is a freak though.

[Edit. I do fear for Messi in terms of his desire to continue. He seems like the kind of guy that gets homesick and he currently doesn't look like he's at home at PSG. If he never left Barca I would bet my mother on him playing till 40. But as it stands, I can only bet my girlfriend]

Atrocious comment. Ronaldo is freak both physically and technically. He might be a bit rusty in things he was elite in the past due to barely practicing them anymore and due to positional change but we're talking here about a player that literally a whole generation of players try to replicate, Ronaldo was innovative technician ever since he arrived england for the first time, From the way he moved with the ball, stepovers, backheels, knuckleballs, Absurd fks, Headers, Leaps etc. The demoralization for Ronaldo as complete forward that's going on in recent years is pathetic to watch. A victim of his own longevity and adaptability, Fact is he's arguably the best 36-37 years old to ever play the game, And it can't be more counter intuitive to claim him as only physical freak because of his performances at his age, Yet people still do for weird reasons. Ronaldo is more technical than every player you listed under the technical bracket

 

[Gehrman]

Atrocious comment. Ronaldo is freak both physically and technically. He might be a bit rusty in things he was elite in the past due to barely practicing them anymore and due to positional change but we're talking here about a player that literally a whole generation of players try to replicate, Ronaldo was innovative technician ever since he arrived england for the first time, From the way he moved with the ball, stepovers, backheels, knuckleballs, Absurd fks, Headers, Leaps etc. The demoralization for Ronaldo as complete forward that's going on in recent years is pathetic to watch. A victim of his own longevity and adaptability, Fact is he's arguably the best 36-37 years old to ever play the game, And it can't be more counter intuitive to claim him as only physical freak because of his performances at his age, Yet people still do for weird reasons. Ronaldo is more technical than every player you listed under the technical bracket

Not sure he's more technical than Zidane tbh. I mean the final version of Zidane.

 

[Henandez14]

Atrocious comment. Ronaldo is freak both physically and technically. He might be a bit rusty in things he was elite in the past due to barely practicing them anymore and due to positional change but we're talking here about a player that literally a whole generation of players try to replicate, Ronaldo was innovative technician ever since he arrived england for the first time, From the way he moved with the ball, stepovers, backheels, knuckleballs, Absurd fks, Headers, Leaps etc. The demoralization for Ronaldo as complete forward that's going on in recent years is pathetic to watch. A victim of his own longevity and adaptability, Fact is he's arguably the best 36-37 years old to ever play the game, And it can't be more counter intuitive to claim him as only physical freak because of his performances at his age, Yet people still do for weird reasons. Ronaldo is more technical than every player you listed under the technical bracket

Leaps and headers don't require much technique (leaps are actually pure athleticism),

And neither do stepovers.
I mean Lukaku does them. I've seen many comments here that boil down to "stepovers are abused and useless except when R9 did them" I don't hold such an extreme view of course.

Rashford and Mason mount do knuckle balls - I wouldn't describe them as technically gifted.

Ronaldo hasn't scored a free kick in sometime now ( it doesn't discount the fact that he did, some of them have amazing swerve, I concede on this .

The back heel is a trick as is elastico. I think you're confusing skills with technique.

Edit. If you can't wrap your head around the difference , think of Memphis.

 

[Nonameboy]

Brazil play most of their international games against the likes of Venezuela and Peru. They've been winning the vast majority of these games for the literal entire history of this sport. Looking at their actual team instead of blindly prattling off numbers, it's beyond dispute that this is one of the least impressive Brazil sides ever. They have one big player. One. They haven't come even slightly close to winning the WC since they won it almost twenty years ago. This is quite possibly the weakest Brazil side ever. There's an unusually small number of great Brazilian players in this generation. Neymar is legitimately the only one who truly stands out. Thiago Silva, their captain, is 37 years old.

By far the worst brazilian team ive ever seen.

And i saw this years euro and this year copa america and the diffence in the level of play is huge. The euros were on a much higher level then the boring,slow and low quality games i saw in Copa America.

Its night and day really i dont see any south american team winning the WC any time soon.

 

[Nonameboy]

It wasn't the same team.

No Mbappe, no Pavard, no Lucas Hernandez, and no Varane...who were very important to France title in 2018.
Definitely not the same team.

The Brazil team that lost the final to Argentina is definitely better than France 2016, and Brazil historically is 2 tiers above France as football nation, they are the biggest football nation in History.
For Argentina to win a final in Maracana is massive, is their biggest rival, Portugal doesn't even have any rivalry with France.
Imagine United winning the EPL at Anfield....yes THAT massive.

And big reminder that Cristiano barely played that final cause he got injured at 20 min, at least Messi was present on the pitch.

Plus Messi won best player of the tournament over Neymar and Suarez, Cristiano wasn't chosen best player of Euro 2016, Griezmann was.
Portugal best player was Pepe.

France 2016 was much better than the brazilian team of this years copa. Youre talking about Argentina beating that average brazilian team in the Maracana as if its some huge accomplishment you forgot to mention that the stadium was pretty much empty this wasnt Uruguai beating Brazil in the final of the 50 WC in front of 120.000 brazilians in the maracana stadium.

As for France and Portugal the french have been Portugals boogie team in major tourneys and hadnt lost to the portuguese in more than 40 years so Portugal finally beating France and doing it in France in a stadium filled with french supporters for me is bigger than Argentina beating the weakest brazilian side since i can remember in an empty stadium.

And yes Ronaldo only played 20 minutes in the final but without his goals they wouldnt have got there.


Portugal winning the Euro is bigger than Argentina winning the Copa and i dont think its even close.

 

[bakalhau]

Leaps and headers don't require much technique (leaps are actually pure athleticism),

Oh, no no, oh no, they absolutely do. There's a reason Ronaldo leaps beyond pretty much every other player and many times on level with a goalkeeper's hands. He pushes both his lower half of the legs backwards and up to level with his knees during the jump, so he can jump higher and, critically, raise his center of gravity and pull off mindblowing hang times. Guy is a freak of football and, well, physics too.

Edit: technique in football can be a million things. His 2nd goal yesterday and the one last weekend are just 2 examples, in addition to the one above.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Ok. We should probably keep in mind that Appearances Made is an unusual stat to go on since not all appearances are equal. So, let's go with minutes played and then base them on that.

Minutes Played
Ronaldo - 88,469
Messi - 77,076

Messi has roughly 11,000 less career minutes than Cristiano. That's about 122 full 90 minute games more that Ronaldo has played than Messi. You have to keep this in mind when you look at stats. It's all relative to minutes they actually played that matters.

Career Goals
Ronaldo - 798
Messi - 755

Ronaldo has more goals, however, having played around 10,000 more minutes, Messi has the superior goals per game ratio. I'll further highlight who statistically comes out on top in each category in bold.

Goals Per Game
Ronaldo - 0.73
Messi - 0.80

Minutes Per Goal
Ronaldo - 110.9
Messi - 102.1

Career Assists
Ronaldo - 227
Messi - 315

Mins Per Goal/Assist
Ronaldo - 86.3
Messi - 72.0

Hattricks
Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 55

Free Kick Goals
Ronaldo - 56
Messi - 58

Outside the Box Goals (Non free-kick)
Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 78

Inside the Box
Ronaldo - 543
Messi - 518

Headers
Ronaldo - 139
Messi - 26

Expected Goals (XG)
Ronaldo - 214.41 (Scored 9 more goals than he should have.)
Messi - 192.37 (Scored 36.8 more goals than he should have.)

Shots Per Goal
Ronaldo - 6.41
Messi - 5.09

% of Shots on Target
Ronaldo - 41.3%
Messi - 48.0%

Successful Dribbles
Ronaldo - 1,615
Messi - 2,895

Key Passes
Ronaldo - 863
Messi - 1,207

Free Kick Conversion
Ronaldo - 5.9%
Messi - 9.2%

Man of the Match Awards
Ronaldo - 163
Messi - 291


Statistically, based on performances on a minute-per-minute basis, as well as absolute basis, Messi currently is ahead on 13 of 17 categories. Ronaldo is ahead on some statistics that are heavily skewed in his favour due to absolute minutes played over and above the minutes Messi has played. If Messi had played 11,000 more minutes then just about every statistic would be won by Messi with the exception of headers and possibly penalty conversion rate.

What about CL Groups and Knockout?

Ronaldo - 114 mins per goal. 88 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 102 mins per goal. 80 mins per goal contribution.

CL Finals?

Ronaldo - 158 mins per goal. 126 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 135 mins per goal. 135 mins per goal contribution.


Also, lest anyone forgets, Messi just won the Copa America with:

5 games.
4 goals.
5 assists.
4 MOTM awards.

That's before anyone who saw Barca last season, 8 points down at December, reminds you about how many game winning goals and assists Messi provided from December until end of season. There was no dispute about Messi scooping up Ballon D'or after the Copa America; not until the PSG move.