Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pink Moon

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
8,279
Location
Glasgow
Supports
Celtic
But those are the only eight games we have to judge him in club football outside of Barcelona. He's been average at best. Again, you really shouldn't be surprised that people will start moving towards conclusions.
You deliberately add club football here because he's been successful and performed at a high level outside of Argentina for Barcelona. So, with that, why would anyone jump to the conclusion that he can only do it at Barcelona when we've seen him do it outside of Barcelona?

Also makes me laugh how people used to say he could only do it with Xavi and Iniesta and then he was still performing to incredible levels without them at Barcelona. Meanwhile Barcelona have now plummeted to unprecedented levels of shite when Messi leaves. Go figure.

I think people also need to accept that PSG aren't a good team right now. They have a fantastic squad on paper but football is played on grass. I'd like to see them with an actual good manager first.
 

Fridge chutney

Full Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2016
Messages
8,872
Hendrix was a genius, and he died before his peak. Richards has the benefit of longevity, and his finest work (Exile on Main Street) came out when he was older than Hendrix, so the comparison favours Richards.

However Hendrix is a much superior musician. He also did it solo, for the most part, and that's why my vote would go to him.

Both were phenomenal, but very different. It's kinda bizarre that they are being compared.
 

Daysleeper

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
4,790
Supports
Barcelona
Hendrix was a genius, and he died before his peak. Richards has the benefit of longevity, and his finest work (Exile on Main Street) came out when he was older than Hendrix, so the comparison favours Richards.

However Hendrix is a much superior musician. He also did it solo, for the most part, and that's why my vote would go to him.

Both were phenomenal, but very different. It's kinda bizarre that they are being compared.
I’ve stated that Hendrix was inarguably the superior musician
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,548
Location
Somewhere out there
Expected Goals (XG)
Ronaldo - 214.41 (Scored 9 more goals than he should have.)
Messi - 192.37 (Scored 36.8 more goals than he should have.)
There's absolutely no way on Earth this is correct.

xG didn't even start being used until about a decade into both of their careers. Are we to believe they've gone back and looked at every single career minute they've played? :lol:
 

Hoof the ball

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
12,189
Location
San Antonio, Texas.
There's absolutely no way on Earth this is correct.

xG didn't even start being used until about a decade into both of their careers. Are we to believe they've gone back and looked at every single career minute they've played? :lol:
xG taken from 2014/2015 season onwards.

Let's be honest, if they took it from Messi's 08/09 to 14/15 it'd be even worse. This is just xG taken from the so-called decline of him, which is telling. Even if you remove the xG stuff, he's still better in almost every area.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
xG taken from 2014/2015 season onwards.

Let's be honest, if they took it from Messi's 08/09 to 14/15 it'd be even worse. This is just xG taken from the so-called decline of him, which is telling. Even if you remove the xG stuff, he's still better in almost every area.
Just tells you Ronaldo consistently gets in better goal scoring positions?
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,548
Location
Somewhere out there
Just tells you Ronaldo consistently gets in better goal scoring positions?
A lot of those stats are about how you read em in fairness.

A guy and management team wanting a player to shoot from anywhere will lead to more shots but less goals for those shots, whereas a Pep player will likely have the opposite.

Stats as always, only tell part of the story.
 

Hoof the ball

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
12,189
Location
San Antonio, Texas.
A lot of those stats are about how you read em in fairness.

A guy and management team wanting a player to shoot from anywhere will lead to more shots but less goals for those shots, whereas a Pep player will likely have the opposite.

Stats as always, only tell part of the story.
Agreed, but you have to factor in that Messi's average field position has dropped further and further away from goal, to the point that he's largely receiving the ball just outside the centre circle a lot of times, whereas, Ronaldo is playing higher and higher than he ever has, which in turn puts him in goal-scoring opportunities more often than Messi, so, for Messi to add an absurd amount of assists to his tally, run a game from deep and keep up with Ronaldo's scoring stats, is somewhat under-appreciated point because Ronaldo isn't expected to score, assist and run a game. Messi is.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,548
Location
Somewhere out there
Ronaldo isn't expected to score, assist and run a game. Messi is.
I expect nothing but brilliance from either. But if you wanna expect certain things like “running a game” which I personally only really see from the Modric’s, Scholes’, Pirlo’s, Xavi’s and Iniesta’s of the game, good for you.

You talk about Messi dropping deeper but the main difference in his game versus the early Messi for me is he’s lazy as feck now, and barely comes to life until the ball is near him. It’s the right thing now, as he can concentrate his energy on doing wonderful things, but no-one that lazy in that position is Xavi-ing a game.
 
Last edited:

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Agreed, but you have to factor in that Messi's average field position has dropped further and further away from goal, to the point that he's largely receiving the ball just outside the centre circle a lot of times, whereas, Ronaldo is playing higher and higher than he ever has, which in turn puts him in goal-scoring opportunities more often than Messi, so, for Messi to add an absurd amount of assists to his tally, run a game from deep and keep up with Ronaldo's scoring stats, is somewhat under-appreciated point because Ronaldo isn't expected to score, assist and run a game. Messi is.
Ronaldo has more assists than Messi in the CL!
MR CL strikes again!
 

Sviken

New Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
2,450
How I wish Ronaldo wins the PL/CL with us. Would put this debate to rest firmly.
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,996
Ok. We should probably keep in mind that Appearances Made is an unusual stat to go on since not all appearances are equal. So, let's go with minutes played and then base them on that.

Minutes Played
Ronaldo - 88,469
Messi - 77,076

Messi has roughly 11,000 less career minutes than Cristiano. That's about 122 full 90 minute games more that Ronaldo has played than Messi. You have to keep this in mind when you look at stats. It's all relative to minutes they actually played that matters.

Career Goals
Ronaldo - 798
Messi - 755

Ronaldo has more goals, however, having played around 10,000 more minutes, Messi has the superior goals per game ratio. I'll further highlight who statistically comes out on top in each category in bold.

Goals Per Game
Ronaldo - 0.73
Messi - 0.80

Minutes Per Goal

Ronaldo - 110.9
Messi - 102.1

Career Assists

Ronaldo - 227
Messi - 315

Mins Per Goal/Assist

Ronaldo - 86.3
Messi - 72.0

Hattricks

Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 55

Free Kick Goals
Ronaldo - 56
Messi - 58

Outside the Box Goals (Non free-kick)

Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 78

Inside the Box

Ronaldo - 543
Messi - 518

Headers
Ronaldo - 139
Messi - 26

Expected Goals (XG)
Ronaldo - 214.41 (Scored 9 more goals than he should have.)
Messi - 192.37 (Scored 36.8 more goals than he should have.)

Shots Per Goal

Ronaldo - 6.41
Messi - 5.09

% of Shots on Target

Ronaldo - 41.3%
Messi - 48.0%

Successful Dribbles

Ronaldo - 1,615
Messi - 2,895

Key Passes

Ronaldo - 863
Messi - 1,207

Free Kick Conversion

Ronaldo - 5.9%
Messi - 9.2%

Man of the Match Awards

Ronaldo - 163
Messi - 291


Statistically, based on performances on a minute-per-minute basis, as well as absolute basis, Messi currently is ahead on 13 of 17 categories. Ronaldo is ahead on some statistics that are heavily skewed in his favour due to absolute minutes played over and above the minutes Messi has played. If Messi had played 11,000 more minutes then just about every statistic would be won by Messi with the exception of headers and possibly penalty conversion rate.

What about CL Groups and Knockout?


Ronaldo - 114 mins per goal. 88 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 102 mins per goal. 80 mins per goal contribution.

CL Finals?


Ronaldo - 158 mins per goal. 126 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 135 mins per goal. 135 mins per goal contribution.


Also, lest anyone forgets, Messi just won the Copa America with:

5 games.
4 goals.
5 assists.
4 MOTM awards.

That's before anyone who saw Barca last season, 8 points down at December, reminds you about how many game winning goals and assists Messi provided from December until end of season. There was no dispute about Messi scooping up Ballon D'or after the Copa America; not until the PSG move.
I believe Messi already has more non-penalty goals than Ronaldo as well. He could have had more hattricks as well if he didn't give away penalities more often.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
I believe Messi already has more non-penalty goals than Ronaldo as well. He could have had more hattricks as well if he didn't give away penalities more often.
That’s because Messi stinks at penalties
 

Pickle85

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
6,371
You deliberately add club football here because he's been successful and performed at a high level outside of Argentina for Barcelona. So, with that, why would anyone jump to the conclusion that he can only do it at Barcelona when we've seen him do it outside of Barcelona?

Also makes me laugh how people used to say he could only do it with Xavi and Iniesta and then he was still performing to incredible levels without them at Barcelona. Meanwhile Barcelona have now plummeted to unprecedented levels of shite when Messi leaves. Go figure.

I think people also need to accept that PSG aren't a good team right now. They have a fantastic squad on paper but football is played on grass. I'd like to see them with an actual good manager first.
Argentina...another setup that he has been with since a teenager and that, again, is largely built with the aim of getting the best out of him. Also one with which he's underachieved over the years.
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,996
Argentina...another setup that he has been with since a teenager and that, again, is largely built with the aim of getting the best out of him. Also one with which he's underachieved over the years.
It's a real shame Messi didn't leave his dream club Barca a bit sooner just to shut Ronaldo fans up.
 

Pink Moon

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2009
Messages
8,279
Location
Glasgow
Supports
Celtic
Argentina...another setup that he has been with since a teenager and that, again, is largely built with the aim of getting the best out of him. Also one with which he's underachieved over the years.
This is such a dumb argument though. The vast majority of football teams set up in a way which allows their best players to flourish. Especially when that player is one of the all time greats.

To say he has underachieved with Argentina feels a little harsh. A Copa America win, a World Cup final, a few more Copa America finals that he was unlucky to lose and their record goalscorer. That's a very good international career.
 

Pickle85

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
6,371
It's a real shame Messi didn't leave his dream club Barca a bit sooner just to shut Ronaldo fans up.
Not a shame for him as, judging by what we've seen so far, his performances would have dipped even sooner if he had.
 

Sviken

New Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
2,450
Not a shame for him as, judging by what we've seen so far, his performances would have dipped even sooner if he had.
Certainly help that the whole Barca system was built for him. They don't call him the "Little Dictator" for nothing
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,996
Not a shame for him as, judging by what we've seen so far, his performances would have dipped even sooner if he had.
He's been struggling with injuries so far and is 34. I'm pretty sure he'll pick up his form. I'm just getting at it's stupid to lambast Messi for staying his entire prime at his dream club. If you're already at the right club at the right time, why would you want to downgrade?
 

Hectic

Full Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Messages
75,346
Supports
30fps
Too many posters here get bogged down in the neverending arguments that no-one is going to change their mind over. It's important to remember that it doesn't really matter who is better out of the two. All that matters is you're all massively inferior in every way and should be sterilised by the government.
 

Lecland07

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Messages
2,835
Messi will, most likely, end his career with better stats. Messi has just been a better creator through his career.

06/07 onwards

Messi (752 games) - 666 goals (88.5%) - 296 assists (39.4%) - 962 total contributions (127.9%) -

Ronaldo (738 games) - 651 goals (88.2%) - 197 assists (26.7%) - 848 total contributions (114.9%)

If you used Messi's stats on Ronaldo's games, Ronaldo would have had to reach 943 total contributions to match Messi. That is a 95 difference, which is massive, to be honest. But them playing in different leagues is a bit of an issue as it is not comparable.


I think the stats below are better as they played in the same league.

Real Madrid onwards

Messi (625 games) - 595 goals (95.2%) - 258 assists (41.3%) - 853 total contributions (136%)

Ronaldo (583 games) - 560 goals (96.1%) - 155 assists (26.6%) - 715 total contributions (123%)

Real Madrid period

Messi (476 games) - 472 goals (99.2%) - 195 assists (41%) - 667 total contributions (140.1%)

Ronaldo (438 games) - 450 goals (102.7%) - 132 assists (30.1%) - 582 total contributions (132.9%)


The difference between Ronaldo and Messi, during his time at Real Madrid, amounts to 36 total contributions on top of Ronaldo's total.

Ronaldo did end up beating out Messi in goal scoring after joining Real Madrid. Messi would have needed 17 more goals during that period to match Ronaldo.

Messi, however, is clearly superior in creativity - Ronaldo would need 52 more assist to match Messi when at Real Madrid


I would say Messi is probably the most complete attacker ever. Ronaldo, however, is the greatest goal scorer of all time. Getting over 100% goals to game ratio in 438 games is insane.
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,996
Messi will, most likely, end his career with better stats. Messi has just been a better creator through his career.

06/07 onwards

Messi (752 games) - 666 goals (88.5%) - 296 assists (39.4%) - 962 total contributions (127.9%) -

Ronaldo (738 games) - 651 goals (88.2%) - 197 assists (26.7%) - 848 total contributions (114.9%)

If you used Messi's stats on Ronaldo's games, Ronaldo would have had to reach 943 total contributions to match Messi. That is a 95 difference, which is massive, to be honest. But them playing in different leagues is a bit of an issue as it is not comparable.


I think the stats below are better as they played in the same league.

Real Madrid onwards

Messi (625 games) - 595 goals (95.2%) - 258 assists (41.3%) - 853 total contributions (136%)

Ronaldo (583 games) - 560 goals (96.1%) - 155 assists (26.6%) - 715 total contributions (123%)

Real Madrid period

Messi (476 games) - 472 goals (99.2%) - 195 assists (41%) - 667 total contributions (140.1%)

Ronaldo (438 games) - 450 goals (102.7%) - 132 assists (30.1%) - 582 total contributions (132.9%)


The difference between Ronaldo and Messi, during his time at Real Madrid, amounts to 36 total contributions on top of Ronaldo's total.

Ronaldo did end up beating out Messi in goal scoring after joining Real Madrid. Messi would have needed 17 more goals during that period to match Ronaldo.

Messi, however, is clearly superior in creativity - Ronaldo would need 52 more assist to match Messi when at Real Madrid


I would say Messi is probably the most complete attacker ever. Ronaldo, however, is the greatest goal scorer of all time. Getting over 100% goals to game ratio in 438 games is insane.
I dunno why the metric should start from 2006/2007 onwards. Because Ronnie didn't become a great goalscorer before then?
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
22,548
Location
Somewhere out there
I dunno why the metric should start from 2006/2007 onwards. Because Ronnie didn't become a great goalscorer before then?
Isn’t it because 06/07 was Messi’s first real full season as a guaranteed starter?
It’s from that season they’ve been “up against each other” so to speak.

The start of their careers are an odd one to compare anyhow, one moved countries just as he was getting started after youth football, and joined Ferguson’s most underwhelming side.
The other had been a youth product of a mega club, had been living in the city since his was 13, 4 years even before his debut. He then started his first team career with them just as they were to be crowned the best side in Europe.

As with so much, it’s so nuanced. Best to just enjoy and if you enjoy one more, good on you.
 
Last edited:

NasirTimothy

New Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2021
Messages
2,388
Supports
Enyimba F.C.
Disagree with the songwriter bit. Hendrix did plenty of covers as well and nagger did the lyrics but Richards doing as much as he did with the music and variety has him ahead of Hendrix for me as a songwriter.

I mean even Richards solo album is much better than jagger’s solo stuff.
Not true. There were three albums released during Jimi Hendrix’s lifetime, he wrote every single song on them solo apart from two by Noel Redding. There was also only one cover, Watchtower. So I don’t know where you’re getting this idea about covers from. If you mean he performed covers, well every act did that in the 60s, especially at the start of their careers.

And Richards might have some good solo stuff, but the fact remains that everything he did that was iconic was with Jagger. Who didn’t just write the lyrics by the way, they both wrote lyrics and music even though Richards might have leaned more towards the music and Jagger more towards the lyrics.

Also, there are famous songs credited to both Jagger and Richards that were written solely by Jagger (and vice versa).
 

Gehrman

Phallic connoisseur, unlike shamans
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
10,996
Isn’t it because 06/07 was Messi’s first real full season as a guaranteed starter?
It’s from that season they’ve been “up against each other” so to speak.

The start of their careers are an odd one to compare anyhow, one moved countries just as he was getting started after youth football, and joined Ferguson’s most underwhelming side.
The other had been a youth product of a mega club, had been living in the city since his was 13, 4 years even before his debut. He then started his first team career with them just as they were to be crowned the best side in Europe.

As with so much, it’s so nuanced. Best to just enjoy and if you enjoy one more, good on you.
I don't know it's hard to compare. Despite Barcelona winning the 2006 CL, they lost the 2006-2008 league titles to Madrid. I'd say that despite both of them being mega talented teenagers(Ronaldo's natural talent is underrated). Inter met Messi's release clause for 150 mil euro's when he was 18 and unproven and Ronaldinho said 18 year old Messi was the best in team when he received his Ballon D'or. I guess starting from 2006/2007 since that season's both of them truly hit the scene although you could argue that is when Ronaldo's prime began while Messi's prime was 2 years later.
 
Last edited:

Wolf1992

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
1,332
Supports
No team in particular.
France 2016 was much better than the brazilian team of this years copa. Youre talking about Argentina beating that average brazilian team in the Maracana as if its some huge accomplishment you forgot to mention that the stadium was pretty much empty this wasnt Uruguai beating Brazil in the final of the 50 WC in front of 120.000 brazilians in the maracana stadium.

As for France and Portugal the french have been Portugals boogie team in major tourneys and hadnt lost to the portuguese in more than 40 years so Portugal finally beating France and doing it in France in a stadium filled with french supporters for me is bigger than Argentina beating the weakest brazilian side since i can remember in an empty stadium.

And yes Ronaldo only played 20 minutes in the final but without his goals they wouldnt have got there.


Portugal winning the Euro is bigger than Argentina winning the Copa and i dont think its even close.
France 2016 isn't better than Brazil 2017- 2021.
The fact that they lost a final at home against a Portugal side that had no Cristiano for more than 90 minutes and brought Eder as a sub to somehow save them speaks for itself.

France 2018, yes, they ARE better than current Brazil, France 2016 NO WAY.

It was a massive failure for France to lose a final at home against Portugal side that had no Cristiano on the pitch, and an average player like Eder scoring the goal winner made it worse, probably as big as the failure of Portugal losing 2004 final against Greece at home (final that Cristiano lost btw).
Even though i consider Portugal loss a bit bigger, they had Deco,Figo,Carvahlo, Maniche, Pauleta, young talented Cristiano, and Rui Costa as a delux sub...somehow they lost to a team that whole starting XI was cheaper than Figo transfer to Madrid.IMO biggest Scolari's failure in his whole managerial career, worse than the 7-1 against Germany in 2014.

Brazil is still a great team by today standards, they are favorites to win next WC along with France and Italy.
Yes, i believe this Brazil can still knock out England,Germany,Spain, and Netherlands...they clearly have the players to do it : Neymar,Marquinhos, Thiago Silva,Fabiano,Allison,Casemiro,Gabriel Jesus,etc

Yes, i know, there is no R9, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo,etc but last time i checked, France doesn't have Zidane, Thuram, Deschamps, Henry, Battiston, Platini, Giresse, Tigana, Lizarazu,etc anymore
 
Last edited:

Daysleeper

New Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
4,790
Supports
Barcelona
Not true. There were three albums released during Jimi Hendrix’s lifetime, he wrote every single song on them solo apart from two by Noel Redding. There was also only one cover, Watchtower. So I don’t know where you’re getting this idea about covers from. If you mean he performed covers, well every act did that in the 60s, especially at the start of their careers.

And Richards might have some good solo stuff, but the fact remains that everything he did that was iconic was with Jagger. Who didn’t just write the lyrics by the way, they both wrote lyrics and music even though Richards might have leaned more towards the music and Jagger more towards the lyrics.

Also, there are famous songs credited to both Jagger and Richards that were written solely by Jagger (and vice versa).
Hey Joe is one of his most popular songs and it is a cover. Alongside watchtower. He may have written a majority of us songs but 2 of his 3 most well know songs are covers.

sticky fingers, let it bleed and exile on Main Street surpass are you experienced
 

Nonameboy

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
16
That's before anyone who saw Barca last season, 8 points down at December, reminds you about how many game winning goals and assists Messi provided from December until end of season. There was no dispute about Messi scooping up Ballon D'or after the Copa America; not until the PSG move.
If Lewandowski doesnt win it its an absolute disgrace.
 

Nonameboy

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 18, 2021
Messages
16
France 2016 isn't better than Brazil 2017- 2021.
The fact that they lost a final at home against a Portugal side that had no Cristiano for more than 90 minutes and brought Eder as a sub to somehow save them speaks for itself.

France 2018, yes, they ARE better than current Brazil, France 2016 NO WAY.

It was a massive failure for France to lose a final at home against Portugal side that had no Cristiano on the pitch, and an average player like Eder scoring the goal winner made it worse, probably as big as the failure of Portugal losing 2004 final against Greece at home (final that Cristiano lost btw).
Even though i consider Portugal loss a bit bigger, they had Deco,Figo,Carvahlo, Maniche, Pauleta, young talented Cristiano, and Rui Costa as a delux sub...somehow they lost to a team that whole starting XI was cheaper than Figo transfer to Madrid.IMO biggest Scolari's failure in his whole managerial career, worse than the 7-1 against Germany in 2014.

Brazil is still a great team by today standards, they are favorites to win next WC along with France and Italy.
Yes, i believe this Brazil can still knock out England,Germany,Spain, and Netherlands...they clearly have the players to do it : Neymar,Marquinhos, Thiago Silva,Fabiano,Allison,Casemiro,Gabriel Jesus,etc

Yes, i know, there is no R9, Cafu, Roberto Carlos, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo,etc but last time i checked, France doesn't have Zidane, Thuram, Deschamps, Henry, Battiston, Platini, Giresse, Tigana, Lizarazu,etc anymore
Brazil are only favorite based on history if they face any of the top european teams in the WC its curtains for them.

In the copa final they started with the likes of Fred,Richarlison,Paqueta,lodi,everton etc those guys wouldnt even make a 24 man squad in any of the top european teams.

Beating that brazil team with those players in an empty stadium is not that special the only reasons guys like you think it is its cause of Messi if this was say Chile beating that Brazil none of you would say it was a great achievement quite the contrary you would be saying that brazil currently sucks wich is true.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
22,254
Ok. We should probably keep in mind that Appearances Made is an unusual stat to go on since not all appearances are equal. So, let's go with minutes played and then base them on that.

Minutes Played
Ronaldo - 88,469
Messi - 77,076

Messi has roughly 11,000 less career minutes than Cristiano. That's about 122 full 90 minute games more that Ronaldo has played than Messi. You have to keep this in mind when you look at stats. It's all relative to minutes they actually played that matters.

Career Goals
Ronaldo - 798
Messi - 755

Ronaldo has more goals, however, having played around 10,000 more minutes, Messi has the superior goals per game ratio. I'll further highlight who statistically comes out on top in each category in bold.

Goals Per Game
Ronaldo - 0.73
Messi - 0.80

Minutes Per Goal

Ronaldo - 110.9
Messi - 102.1

Career Assists

Ronaldo - 227
Messi - 315

Mins Per Goal/Assist

Ronaldo - 86.3
Messi - 72.0

Hattricks

Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 55

Free Kick Goals
Ronaldo - 56
Messi - 58

Outside the Box Goals (Non free-kick)

Ronaldo - 58
Messi - 78

Inside the Box

Ronaldo - 543
Messi - 518

Headers
Ronaldo - 139
Messi - 26

Expected Goals (XG)
Ronaldo - 214.41 (Scored 9 more goals than he should have.)
Messi - 192.37 (Scored 36.8 more goals than he should have.)

Shots Per Goal

Ronaldo - 6.41
Messi - 5.09

% of Shots on Target

Ronaldo - 41.3%
Messi - 48.0%

Successful Dribbles

Ronaldo - 1,615
Messi - 2,895

Key Passes

Ronaldo - 863
Messi - 1,207

Free Kick Conversion

Ronaldo - 5.9%
Messi - 9.2%

Man of the Match Awards

Ronaldo - 163
Messi - 291


Statistically, based on performances on a minute-per-minute basis, as well as absolute basis, Messi currently is ahead on 13 of 17 categories. Ronaldo is ahead on some statistics that are heavily skewed in his favour due to absolute minutes played over and above the minutes Messi has played. If Messi had played 11,000 more minutes then just about every statistic would be won by Messi with the exception of headers and possibly penalty conversion rate.

What about CL Groups and Knockout?


Ronaldo - 114 mins per goal. 88 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 102 mins per goal. 80 mins per goal contribution.

CL Finals?


Ronaldo - 158 mins per goal. 126 mins per goal contribution.
Messi - 135 mins per goal. 135 mins per goal contribution.


Also, lest anyone forgets, Messi just won the Copa America with:

5 games.
4 goals.
5 assists.
4 MOTM awards.

That's before anyone who saw Barca last season, 8 points down at December, reminds you about how many game winning goals and assists Messi provided from December until end of season. There was no dispute about Messi scooping up Ballon D'or after the Copa America; not until the PSG move.
A bit harsh on Ronaldo to include the time where he played as a pure winger coming to England at 18. Those first three years would drag him down significantly.
 

RedRonaldo

Wishes to be oppressed.
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18,996
How I wish Ronaldo wins the PL/CL with us. Would put this debate to rest firmly.
For me the only way to put the debate to rest, is to have one of them winning a WC, which won’t happen anyway.

Why? Because Messi may not score as many goals as Ronaldo (career/CL/international), while Ronaldo may not win as many Ballon D’ors as Messi. Otherwise they are pretty much even career wise, with one being better in footballing/talent, the other being better in clutchness/mentality.
 

Sviken

New Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2021
Messages
2,450
For me the only way to put the debate to rest, is to have one of them winning a WC, which won’t happen anyway.

Why? Because Messi may not score as many goals as Ronaldo (career/CL/international), while Ronaldo may not win as many Ballon D’ors as Messi. Otherwise they are pretty much even career wise, with one being better in footballing/talent, the other being better in clutchness/mentality.
To be fair, Ronaldo got absolutely robbed of one Ballon d'Or.
 

Wolf1992

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 27, 2021
Messages
1,332
Supports
No team in particular.
Brazil are only favorite based on history if they face any of the top european teams in the WC its curtains for them.

In the copa final they started with the likes of Fred,Richarlison,Paqueta,lodi,everton etc those guys wouldnt even make a 24 man squad in any of the top european teams.

Beating that brazil team with those players in an empty stadium is not that special the only reasons guys like you think it is its cause of Messi if this was say Chile beating that Brazil none of you would say it was a great achievement quite the contrary you would be saying that brazil currently sucks wich is true.
Ha, for Chile it would even better achievement, considering they are a medium team historically, it would be massive.
Also IF doesn't work here, Argentina played the final in Maracana, not Chile.

Btw France have the likes ok Kimpbembe,Lenglet,Martial, and Rabiot starting for them sometimes.
Don't even make me start mentioning England and Italy players that aren't considered world class, cause the list it's a bit bigger...England, can't pass the ball for shit in the midfield whenever they face a team that can move the ball properly.

Imagine thinking that it's impossible for Brazil to knock out current Germany,England, or Netherlands...
England needed a free-penalty to eliminate Denmark in the Euro, but somehow it's impossible for Brazil to knock them out in a WC...it's England, buddy, of all the big nations they have a PhD in choking.

Chill a bit, it's doable for Brazil to eliminate Germany, Netherlands, and England, not easy, but definitely doable.
 

OleksUsykUD

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 2, 2021
Messages
157
I'm still a newbie and on a 3 post daily, so don't expect reply, but:


Let's bust some myths:


You cannot compare a complete inferior Copa to the Euro, you just can't. You got no qualifications, most teams are an absolutely joke, you had a ridiculous group of 5, where 4 teams goes forward, and your knockout phase start from 1/4.
How exactly you can compare this to the Euro, where you have super hard qualifiers, and the groups are pure nightmare with 1 bad result and you may be out of the tournament ???? No comparison at all. On top of that how can you comparison a strict rule 4 year tournament, to 1-2-3 years Copa ?
2015 Copa, 2016 Copa, 2019 Copa, 2021 Copa, wth is this ? Of course he is going to win it at some point, this tournament is a joke. How can you compare the 2, when obviously one will have a lot more tournament because how often the tournament is being held ? But it's easy to be bias, right ?


As far as the Portugal Euro title, people should stop talk nonsenses. Euro is not like 3 matches with just 1 good opponent and that's it. There is things like qualification, that are not easy. If Ronaldo wasn't scoring all that years in this qualifications, most of the time Portugal wound't have end up at the biggest tournaments.
And Portugal was out of the tournament in the group stage against Hungary, if it wasn't for Ronaldo. At 1-0 for Hungary Ronaldo made perfect assists for Nani. At 2-1 for Hungary, Ronaldo equalize with a brace, and at 3-2, Ronaldo equalize again and qualify Portugal for the knockout stage.
A Euro is not just 1 match, unlike Copa, where you have totally inferior teams, and you have one of the worst Brazil in the history.
But i digress. Let me back at the Euro.
Next match, against very tough Croatia. Extra Time, 116 minute, against Ronaldo at perfect position and manage to get out of the defeners, shot towards the net, and the goalkeeper dive the ball, but it goes towards the net, and Quaresma score it from the goal line, another super important assist from Ronaldo.
Next match against very tough team of Poland. Penalty. Of course Ronaldo score the penalty.
Next match against very solid and inform team of Wales(they beat Russia 3-0, and also knocked out Belgium with 3-1). Ronaldo open the score with a stunner header. And again Ronaldo shot towards the goal, and Nani intercepted and 2-0. Goal and assists.
But yeah some people loves to talk nonsenses how Ronaldo doesn't have merits because he get injured in the final. They also completely forget what he have done at the sideline in that final .....


Copa started being relevant because of Mesi, cause of his poor International record. It's a well known facts that the media is worshiping him. When he is playing terrible - nothing. When he totally missed the mark - nothing. Yet if Ronaldo doesn't score in 1 match, he is on every single tabloid, and they are explaining how the team will be better without him or so ....
Comparing Copa with the Euro is like comparing someone who have won Liga Europe with CL.
You can compare it to Nations League. And even Nations Leagues is stronger.
And some people say Ronaldo wasn't good at the Nations League when Portugal won it, seriously?
Ronaldo didn't played at the group stages at all. He played exactly 2 matches and he scored a hattrick in the 1/2 against Switzerland.


As far as the France - Brazil dilemma, only extremely bias Barcelona fan or Ronaldo hater can claim that Brazil in terms of team is above France in the recent times. France was the big favorite since 2016 both at Euro and in the WC. They can make like 2 insanely strong team.
The big favorite at Copa is Brazil and Argentina. Yeah obviously at some point you are going to win it ....


And how can a Barcelona fan can even claim anything about Ronaldo trophy list, when Ronaldo won 3 CL in a row ??? When exactly was last CL Messi have won ? And don't talk about result, when Barcelona is a boxing bag in the CL for like 6 years and they have written the most embarrassing page in their history with result like 8-2 to Bayern, and how both Roma and Liverpool destroyed him, after a huge first leg lead. Messi was invisible, as he always is, when the things are not going their way.
It's not a comparison who the more clutch player is.


You can have your opinion, as much as you like i don't mind it.
And again:
Prime for prime, the only thing Messi had over Ronaldo was his dribble, and that's it. Ronaldo was obviously a better header player, more stronger physically, faster on both accelerating and top speed, better with the weak foot(if we call them equal with the strong one), best positioning in probably the whole history, a true leader and way more clutch, and he was also an absolutely monster 1 on 1, as people looking him currently loves to forget that. But they both were great in beating players 1on1.
P.P. One guy mention the Free Kick. Ronaldo free kick have gotten worst after he was out of his prime, and Messi managed to equalize him on that. But the Free Kicks are pretty even still 58 - 57, but in CL at the big matches it's 12-5 in favor of Ronaldo. And also 10-8 in International for Ronaldo.
And bringing this, let's bring the penalty, when Ronaldo is miles ahead of Messi.
And close control is in the department of dribbling, as i already give that to Messi. There is a thing called Ball control, but you can't make a case for either one being better. As far as the passes goes on, yeah Messi is clearly better, but Ronaldo is clearly better in the crossing in his prime. You can educated yourself as watching some of his time at US before moving to RM.


And the longevity is one of the key factor as who the greatest is in any given sport. At the end not a gifted Ballon d'Or will be the factor, but who scored more, and i can bet with anyone that this will be Ronaldo.
He is the Number 1 International goal scorer, a record every striker will wanna chase. He is the number 1 CL goal scorer, a record the best players will try to chase. He also hold the first 3 spot for most CL goals in 1 season, 17, 16 and 15. In terms of Knockout Stage phase, Ronaldo is miles ahead as well.
And he will for sure finish with more scored goals overall.
Also Ronaldo and Real was the first team to win 2 consecutive CL, damn they totally break the game and win it 3 times straight, and 4 time in 5 years time. And for that 4 CL titles - it was all Ronaldo, in that 4 years he scored 60 CL goals. I guess everyone can math, but this is 15 per season. What is the highest number Messi scored in CL? Yeah he never reached that numbers. Neither anyone.

And when people will stop spread false narratives about his Juve time?
A few facts, not biased fanboys false narratives:


Fastest player in the whole Serie A history to score 50 goal.
Most goals in a single season for Juventus in their history - 37 goals.
Most Serie A goals in a season for Juventus in their history - 31 goals.
Fastest to 100 goals not only in Juventus history, but also in Serie A history.
Also equal record for most consecutive Serie A goals - 11 straight matches, scoring 16 goals.
And all this way past his prime - yeah Goat status right here!


I don't see how exactly it was Ronaldo fault, that Juventus team was old and washed, and they didn't buy anyone decent with him, and rely exclusively on him. And how exactly anyone expect him to win anything with an average players and a coaches like Pirlo and Maurizio Sarri ?
Just look at their GK - Szczesny, a guy that get kicked off from not who, but Arsenal. And they have a history with terrible GK. That guy is making crucial errors constantly. Yeah they strengthen their squad greatly with a below average players like Ramsey and so. :D They don't have a single good midfielder. And they are still relying on Alex Sandro who have been finished since like forever, and not who, but Juan Cuadrado. Their wingers were crap. And the didn't even used him the right way, neither played him in his/the right position.


But Messi fans shouldn't have the nerve to talk about results, cause everyone remember 4-1 from PSG, from 4-1, to 3-0 to Roma, from 3-0, to 4-0 to Liverpool, and the destructive 8-2 to Bayern Munich and so on.


At Juventus i remember his first season, Atletico destroyed them 2-0, and a Atletico - Ronaldo 0-3 in the rematch.
That's sums it up, who shows up when the match aren't going their way.


Yeah everyone is a fan and can have his opinion, as i have mine, and i don't like when someone is trying to twist the true and facts, and using false narratives. I don't mind people that think or prefer Messi i got no problem with it. What i got problem though is with someone trying to spread his opinion without any arguments/facts as the majority and try to make someone else mind, when obviously the other guy have totally different view.


This is from me on this thread, cause i already stated my opinion, and i don't think anyone should try to force his opinion, as everyone have his, and making 10 million forced replies aren't helping.
For me personal the debate was gone the moment Messi choose the easy path in France - PSG. It was well known fact that Guardiola wanted him badly and they were ready to pay him huge salary and he would have been in the strongest team in the England, but he obviously was too scared to come to the best league in the world.
Because La Liga teams with the exception of AM, are wide open, and scoring goals there is child play, unlike in the PL.
Also the facts that everyone is defending him, when he is in the easiest League and saying he needs time, but yet Ronaldo almost at 37 is getting slammed constantly, just because he ain't scored in 1 match, and he scored 9 goals in 11 matches. But yeah it's not like Ronaldo wasn't away for the like last 10 years, he doesn't need time/adaptation.


And as far as our placing, and that we finish second last year. Barca fans should know better. We pretty much was never in the battle for the title. And that second place was behind Liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham was terrible, as well as Arsenal for awhile. Also we got quite a lot of gift VAR decision, and have tons of lucks, which sometimes you have, and other you don't. Last season we get plenty of penalty, some of which was far from real. And just like usually happen, this season they screwed us with 3 penalty that was 100% clear already.
Also just because you finish at x place at certain season, doesn't mean you will finish in the same place or higher in the next. Chelsea won the league with Mourinho, and then finished 10th, even when they didn't sell major players. We won the league back in the time, and then finished 7th.
Whatever place we are going to finish, won't be because of Ronaldo.


P.P.
Hoof The Ball your stats couldn't be more wrong. When pasting data, make sure you check it first or don't lie with it:


This is 100% recent and 100% accurate stats:
UCL knockout stage:
Messi 49 goals/12 assists, 73 apps - 129 mins per goal, 104 mins per goal contribution
Ronaldo 67 goals/15 assists, 83 apps - 110 mins per goal, 90 mins per goal contribution


UCL semi-finals
Messi 6 goals/3assists, 15 apps - 220 mins per goal, 147 mins per goal contribution
Ronaldo 13 goals/2 assists, 21 apps - 146mins per goal, 127 mins per goal contribution


UCL finals
Messi 3 apps - 2 goals - 125 mins per goal, 135 mins per goal contribution
Ronaldo 6 apps - 4 goals/1assists 158 mins per goal, 126 mins per goal contribution


I don't even need to check the other stats to look at the bias, like forgetting to put the aerial duels, penalty and so.
And since Ronaldo moved to Madrid, in all Competitions, he was scoring a goal every 84 minute. In that period Messi stats is worst - 85 minute.
And Messi have a jump start, cause he was settle down and have a way better team, while Real was building. And still Ronaldo is in front, that must be hard to accept.


And every other comparison when they are not in the same league are irrelevant. PL, and Serie A way better defensive and tactical team, and PL way better teams overall.
 

Pickle85

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
6,371
He's been struggling with injuries so far and is 34. I'm pretty sure he'll pick up his form. I'm just getting at it's stupid to lambast Messi for staying his entire prime at his dream club. If you're already at the right club at the right time, why would you want to downgrade?
I don't think I'm lambasting him for doing so, just pointing out that the fact that he has could well be an significant contributory factor to his perceived supremacy over Ronaldo over the years. Again, first-time outside of a system and setup with which he is unfamiliar and he's not pulling up trees. His form may well pick up - he's a brilliant player - but for now it's not irrational for people to question the extent to which having a club and system built around him, and being a part of it for two decades, has helped.
 

Iker Quesadillas

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2021
Messages
3,896
Supports
Real Madrid
Messi is the better player, which means he should be ashamed that Ronaldo has a comparable, even in some ways better, trophy haul.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.