Ole Sack Watch

[Lyng]

Personally I don't hate Ole.
I think he genuinely wants to do good and wants desperately to succeed with United.
The idea that he should resign is quite unreasonable.
That having been said I think it's clear as day he isn't even close to good enough and he needs to be sacked asap. Especially if we want to salvage this season.
Which is why I hate our board. They have the means to do something and keep pushing out the inevitable.

 

[Josh 76]

Personally I don't hate Ole.
I think he genuinely wants to do good and wants desperately to succeed with United.
The idea that he should resign is quite unreasonable.
That having been said I think it's clear as day he isn't even close to good enough and he needs to be sacked asap. Especially if we want to salvage this season.
Which is why I hate our board. They have the means to do something and keep pushing out the inevitable.

Maybe we need to look at this another way. If you were the owner of a business that was making you loads of money, but you had a few complaints about the performance of some staff members, would you sack the manager ?

Every time you then spoke to the manager and raised your concerns, the “nice” manager, who loves the company, would say in a soft spoken, smiley way “don’t worry, I have a my loyal staff that won’t let me down, I have hit that company targets last 2 years, and I’m confident I
Will do the same”

Then as the company owner you would go to your accountant and give them the projections for the next 12 months, and the accountant would say “that’s amazing, we will be smashing our financial targets again.”

So why would you Rock the boat by changing things ? Not many owners of a company would.

 

[sparx99]

Maybe we need to look at this another way. If you were the owner of a business that was making you loads of money, but you had a few complaints about the performance of some staff members, would you sack the manager ?

Every time you then spoke to the manager and raised your concerns, the “nice” manager, who loves the company, would say in a soft spoken, smiley way “don’t worry, I have a my loyal staff that won’t let me down, I have hit that company targets last 2 years, and I’m confident I
Will do the same”

Then as the company owner you would go to your accountant and give them the projections for the next 12 months, and the accountant would say “that’s amazing, we will be smashing our financial targets again.”

So why would you Rock the boat by changing things ? Not many owners of a company would.

What if that nice manager made a bunch of decisions that resulted in hitting targets but also cost the business far more success? What if that manager invested £35m in a new asset and £73m in another asset the following year but hasn’t utilised those assets in the running of the business?

As much as the Glazers are businessmen they must know that a successful Utd would make them far more money than we do now?

 

[Max_United]

What I’ve realised from a minority of posters from reading various threads on the cafe on managers such as Conte, Ten Haag, Pocchetino and Rodgers, is that none of these managers should be hired because they are ‘not the right fit’ and ‘are a risk ‘ (them being significantly better managers than Ole means nothing) and because of this Ole Solskjaer should remain manager unless presumably Guardiola, Tuchel or Klopp become available.
What scares me isn’t that a very significant amount of United fans have this mindset but I think the United board may have it too. And this seems to stem from the bizarre mental scars still there from Lvg and Mourinho. Ignoring the fact every club in world football had been going through this process the entire time Fergie was our manager.

Some people are just pathologically averse to changing managers or do not want to give up on a dream that "United DNA" man will become the next Fergie. Trust we, for Pep they would say "a fraud, no CL in 10 years, only can do it with money" for Klopp "7th with Borrussia in the last season, he is past it", for Fergie "did it only with Aberdeen and dropped to 4th last season, won't be able to handle big names, did not impress with Scotland" etc etc. There will always be some excuses. I mean people are downplaying Zidane's CL record for heaven's sake

And the board is of course trying to avoid a psychological discomfort of having to admit that (a) they are crap at choosing managers (b) they screwed up by giving Ole new contract and everyone is laughing at them when they extend contracts to coaching staff who are blatantly not good enough. That is why they are trying to at least keep Ole until the end of the season to not make themselves look bad - as opposed to acting in the best interests of the club.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Blanc is the obvious option, but in all honesty any semi-competent coach that the players will respect should be good enough with this squad to have us limp into 4th place.

But then that manager would meet the minimum requirement to be kept on. Having a shit manager and board means we're doomed short and long term.

 

[cedara]

Maybe we need to look at this another way. If you were the owner of a business that was making you loads of money, but you had a few complaints about the performance of some staff members, would you sack the manager ?

Every time you then spoke to the manager and raised your concerns, the “nice” manager, who loves the company, would say in a soft spoken, smiley way “don’t worry, I have a my loyal staff that won’t let me down, I have hit that company targets last 2 years, and I’m confident I
Will do the same”

Then as the company owner you would go to your accountant and give them the projections for the next 12 months, and the accountant would say “that’s amazing, we will be smashing our financial targets again.”

So why would you Rock the boat by changing things ? Not many owners of a company would.

This exactly how Yahoo, Nokia, BlackBerry is mostly disappeared on the market now. Yeah, it is still making you loads of money but it's reducing year by year, you're also gradually losing yours market share (future fans) to the rival till the day you cannot take it back.

Most of the fan here can see a very action plan for this. Just sack this clown and his clueless team immediately, bringing Blanc here as a caretaker while trying to bring the Ajax's trilogy to the OT in the summer. Just imagine, if a "pashun", "desiah", "trust the process" pattern of play can bring you loads of money, then what a real pattern of play can bring you.

But I tell you, our board is just full of OGS "mates" and cowards, then thing will never works properly.

 

[crossy1686]

How about offering a contract to a better manager until the end of the season and then taking it from there? It’s not difficult to find an upgrade on our Championship-level coaching.

List all the managers currently available who will leave their club tomorrow and join us until the end of the season. Or even list the managers available that will come in for 6 months.

 

[Spoony]

PE teacher

 

[Spoony]

 

[Max_United]

Maybe we need to look at this another way. If you were the owner of a business that was making you loads of money, but you had a few complaints about the performance of some staff members, would you sack the manager ?

Every time you then spoke to the manager and raised your concerns, the “nice” manager, who loves the company, would say in a soft spoken, smiley way “don’t worry, I have a my loyal staff that won’t let me down, I have hit that company targets last 2 years, and I’m confident I
Will do the same”

Then as the company owner you would go to your accountant and give them the projections for the next 12 months, and the accountant would say “that’s amazing, we will be smashing our financial targets again.”

So why would you Rock the boat by changing things ? Not many owners of a company would.

It is a myth that we are doing great financially. Even before corona we fluctuated between profit and loss, for all revenue growth - it was accompanied by steady increase in wages, spending on players plus debt repayment. Our stock price has not been doing too great either, especially comparing to the broad market. Even with matchday revenue coming back - we absolutely need to either consistently make CL or reduce wages/spending on players significantly to avoid sustained losses.

 

[cedara]

List all the managers currently available who will leave their club tomorrow and join us until the end of the season. Or even list the managers available that will come in for 6 months.

Then what? Just sack this guy, did we need anyone available when we sacked JM? with or without OGS, we're still the same or even better. Even there is available candidate, we still have to sack him first right? Or you want we start to deal with new manager whereas he's still in charge? this is an action of snake.

 

[crossy1686]

I mean it’s very telling that you assume United only has two ways forward - either Ole or “first available manager” that will surely ruin our next seasons. I mean with one of these options at least you know what you get, so perhaps stable and consistent tragedy of Ole doesn’t seem so bad

I think it's you who's doing the assuming. People in here are talking about going for Ten Hag, Potter or another manager with zero experience because they're "available". How about we just wait until the end of the season before we appoint a new manager? I'm not saying Ole shouldn't be sacked if results don't improve either.

 

[crossy1686]

.
Caretaker managers exist!

Ole needs to go now. Then we get a caretaker while negotiating and paying what's needed to get Ten Hag as soon as we can.

Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

 

[Flytan]

I think a lot of people don't understand where the greed from the glazers actually is. They don't care too much about operating losses for a season or two, they care about the value of Manchester United as a whole. The total worth of man united when they sell it far outweighs a year or two of bad losses to them. So as long as the value doesn't drastically fall off of a cliff, they'll keep the status quo the same.

I think they value their nepotism more than a few millions dollars a year, they're already living wealthy so they may as well make sure the people who got them there (woodward and Co) keep their lifestyle too. It's nepotism across the entire club. They give jobs to people who will protect them (ole to fletcher) and let them continue to steal a living despite shite performances. That's the issue with the club, they're all buddies of one another from top to bottomm. Even oles friends in the media contribute. He's probably the most protected manager in the history of the sport based on results compared to what he's been given.

The only way he loses his job is if the long term value of United is threatened by player revolt, fan revolt, or missing the champions league.

 

[Idxomer]

Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

 

[VP89]

Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

Recent years? When did we employ a manager with a progressive style of play since SAF?

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

Terrible take.

 

[Amir]

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

What exactly is the big lesson from previous years?

You can go different routes when you choose a manager. You can get someone proven with a long track record in big clubs or someone who is not so experienced but has done well and has a good chance of further progressing with a bigger club.

I don't think there's right or wrong, as long as you are able to analyze those people well. That's where we've failed in recent years - with the proven guys at the top like Mourinho and Van Gaal or less like Moyes (and some would say Solskjaer, but that had little to do with any type of thinking what so ever).

 

[crossy1686]

Recent years? When did we employ a manager with a progressive style of play since SAF?

Please feel free to list the SAF and Ten Hag comparisons. This should be good.

 

[pocco]

Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

What more do you want Ten Hag to do for him to be seen as a viable option? And were you happy that we made Ole permanent at any point? Because you can't answer yes to the second question yet question Ten Hag. He's more than worthy of a chance at any club now. If City brought him in this summer nobody would bat an eyelid. Same for Juve, Bayern etc.

Bayern appointed Nagelsmann. Juve have brought in the likes of Conte before he was established. Barca brought in Pep.

 

[crossy1686]

Terrible take.

That all you've got? Terrible take that appointing an inexperienced manager at the biggest club in the world would be a disaster? Try harder.

 

[VP89]

Please feel free to list the SAF and Ten Hag comparisons. This should be good.

You think we are trying to hire the next SAF? Give your head a wobble.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

That all you've got? Terrible take that appointing an inexperienced manager at the biggest club in the world would be a disaster? Try harder.

Yes it’s a fecking terrible take, please remind me when exactly we’ve hired a progressive, highly rated coach who’s also showing himself capable in the CL at any point post Fergie? I’ll be waiting.

 

[Wilt]

It depends. In bigger sacking clubs he would be out. Two years ago. In some he wouldn’t. If goal is coming top 4 and challenging for trophies then he isn’t doing bad. Lots of semi finals and final and top 3 two years in row is not bad. Specially in what shape club was when he took over. Just looking at facts. If it is only about trophies he should get sacked. And what manager can guarantee you trophies right now? It is not like we are only team in the league or world? So why not give him the season?

A bigger club, sacking or otherwise, would never have hired him in the first place.

 

[crossy1686]

What more do you want Ten Hag to do for him to be seen as a viable option? And were you happy that we made Ole permanent at any point? Because you can't answer yes to the second question yet question Ten Hag. He's more than worthy of a chance at any club now. If City brought him in this summer nobody would bat an eyelid. Same for Juve, Bayern etc

Well for a start to manage more than a couple of seasons at a level that's more competitive than the Dutch league, at a team where the budget isn't more than most of the other clubs combined, maybe in a system that isn't perfect crafted to ensure the manager succeeds and with VDS and Overmars doing all the recruitment a leg work for him. That's a good starting point.

I was happy Ole was appointed as interim, and I feel the unbeaten run of games earned him the right to give the following season a shot, turns out that was probably the wrong decision in hindsight.

If any of those clubs brought him in this summer they could kiss their respective titles good bye, with the possible exception of Bayern who have a total monopoly on their league.

 

[crossy1686]

Yes it’s a fecking terrible take, please remind me when exactly we’ve hired a progressive, highly rated coach who’s also showing himself capable in the CL at any point post Fergie? I’ll be waiting.

Watched a lot of Ten Hag have you? Keen admirer of the Dutch league? Or like everyone else you've watched two Ajax games in the last 3 years and now you're an expect on "progressive" coaches? Please do enlighten us on why he's so progressive, or maybe how his team responds when they're on a losing streak?

 

[Cal?]

Because he is the one whose responsible for our football, I really want ask you if Ole was managing any top club, would he be still in charge? and why?

Not a single club we want to be competing with would have hired him, every single one will have sacked him if they did (see Chelsea & Lampard, even Barca & Koeman, Juve & Pirlo)

 

[crossy1686]

You think we are trying to hire the next SAF? Give your head a wobble.

You just said he would be the last progressive manager we've hired since SAF. Please list why they were both so progressive so we can compare. Fact of the matter is, you know nothing of Ten Hag, hence this list will never appear.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

Bayern just appointed a bloke with 231 games under his belt.

Ten Hag has been a manager since 2012, with experience at Bayern and he's managed 284 games just at Utrecht and Ajax so no idea where your 180 pro games is coming from. He's not far off managing as many games just at Ajax alone as Nagelsmann had managed at both Hoffenheim and Leipzig. Nagelsmann had won nothing.

Tuchel had managed just 325 games in his entire career (just 41 more than Ten Hag at Utrecht and Ajax) before PSG appointed him but if we include his Go Ahead Eagles stint (and ignore Bayern II) they have managed almost exactly the same amount of professional games. Tuchel had won one measly cup.

Conte had managed just 152 pro games when Juve hired him.

Pep had managed 0 games when Barca took him on, Zidane also zero. We're talking about a guy here with 4 seasons of experience at a big club, competing in the CL with a great record.

 

[Flytan]

You just said he would be the last progressive manager we've hired since SAF. Please list why they were both so progressive so we can compare. Fact of the matter is, you know nothing of Ten Hag, hence this list will never appear.

Out of curiosity why are you being so combative about what people know or don't know about him!? Pretty pointless to assume the people who want him haven't watched ajax over the last few years.

There's also like 3 different videos as to why he is progressive in his thread. He's not my first choice but he deserves it more than our current flop and other managers who have been mentioned

 

[Kaos]

That all you've got? Terrible take that appointing an inexperienced manager at the biggest club in the world would be a disaster? Try harder.

Out of interest who would you have instead of him?

Poch? The man can't buy a trophy and is struggling with the most talent-laden team in Europe.

Rodgers? Ex Liverpool and perennial bottler.

Zidane? Doesn't look remotely interested in the job.

You're well within your rights to have your reservations on ETH, but you haven't suggested a better alternative.

 

[VP89]

You just said he would be the last progressive manager we've hired since SAF. Please list why they were both so progressive so we can compare. Fact of the matter is, you know nothing of Ten Hag, hence this list will never appear.

This is quite hilarious, our football under SAF wasn't exciting in the final years but as a manager he's going to be looked back upon as a manager who went for games, had a strong foundation in defence and allowed for tactical influences from trusted coaches to keep us in an established system which was able to compete with the very best.

Ten Hag is a manager who is more tactical in approach but like SAF, prefers to go into a direct approach when he crosses into the final third, whilst prioritizing possession in deeper areas. He's more progressive and current in his approach than Moyes, Mourinho, LVG and Ole. So when you say "learn from previous years" it's evident you have no flying feck what you're talking about. For all of this tripe about what Ten Hag hasn't won, you haven't once considered whether that should still be considered a necessary pre-requisite, especially after the managers we've had.

 

[crossy1686]

Bayern just appointed a bloke with 231 games under his belt.

Ten Hag has been a manager since 2012, with experience at Bayern and he's managed 284 games at Utrecht and Ajax. He's not far off managing as many games just at Ajax alone as Nagelsmann had managed at both Hoffenheim and Leipzig. Nagelsmann had won nothing.

Tuchel had managed just 325 games in his entire career (just 41 more than Ten Hag at Utrecht and Ajax) before PSG appointed him but if we include his Go Ahead Eagles stint (and ignore Bayern II) they have managed almost exactly the same amount of professional games. Tuchel had won one measly cup.

Pep had managed 0 games when Barca took him on, Zidane also zero. We're talking about a guy here with 4 seasons of experience at a big club, competing in the CL with a great record.

Bayern just hired a manager who has shown he can handle the big games in the German league, a league they play in. A similar scenario would have been us appointing someone like Poch after he did well with Spurs, so it's not the same thing as taking a random punt on a bloke from a lesser league.

So because these managers have done these things then Ten Hag will also? You realise more fail than succeed right? Why do Manchester United have to take that gamble with a coach? Are we that down and out we have to scour Europe's lesser leagues for managers and hope they're as good as Pep one day?

None of it makes any sense to a club that has huge ambitions and one of the biggest budgets in world football.

 

[bond19821982]

Who said they didn't? Are some of you that scared Ole won't get sacked that you're presuming anyone who says he shouldn't go today automatically wants him to stay?

Feck me, Ten Hag? You want to appoint a manager that's only got 180 professional games under his belt at Dutch level? This is what I mean by panic appointment. Ole should be sacked if things don’t improve against City, a caretaker should come in until the end of the season and then we should appoint a new manager. Not fecking Ten Hag or Potter. It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

Do we have a choice though? Other options are Poch and Rodgers . As uninspiring as anyone.

 

[crossy1686]

Out of interest who would you have instead of him?

Poch? The man can't buy a trophy and is struggling with the most talent-laden team in Europe.

Rodgers? Ex Liverpool and perennial bottler.

Zidane? Doesn't look remotely interested in the job.

You're well within your rights to have your reservations on ETH, but you haven't suggested a better alternative.

I've listed mine previously:
1. Mancini
2. Conte
3. Zidane
4. Pochettino
5. Bielsa

Obviously this is in a ideal world and this is purely on who I feel would be the best fit or get the best out of the squad.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

Thank goodness you are here to impart truth and wisdom to 'us lot'.

For the record, I remember you being absolutely rabid in shutting down ANY criticism of Ole in his first year or two - you were like a dog with a fecking bone. And that criticism turned out to be completely valid - all of Ole's flaws are still there for all to see. So maybe you don't know quite as much as you think you do.

 

[crossy1686]

This is quite hilarious, our football under SAF wasn't exciting in the final years but as a manager he's going to be looked back upon as a manager who went for games, had a strong foundation in defence and allowed for tactical influences from trusted coaches to keep us in an established system which was able to compete with the very best.

Ten Hag is a manager who is more tactical in approach but like SAF, prefers to go into a direct approach when he crosses into the final third, whilst prioritizing possession in deeper areas. He's more progressive and current in his approach than Moyes, Mourinho, LVG and Ole. So when you say "learn from previous years" it's evident you have no flying feck what you're talking about. For all of this tripe about what Ten Hag hasn't won, you haven't once considered whether that should still be considered a necessary pre-requisite, especially after the managers we've had.

I haven't said he hasn't won anything, I said he hasn't managed at a level that's even close to PL so his appointment would be a massive gamble. The same as appointing someone like Ole for example. It's nonsense and a gamble that the club doesn't have to take.

 

[Kaos]

I've listed mine previously:
1. Mancini
2. Conte
3. Zidane
4. Pochettino
5. Bielsa

Obviously this is in a ideal world and this is purely on who I feel would be the best fit or get the best out of the squad.

Out of that list the only one realistically attainable would be Poch, a manager who couldn't even win the French league with PSG.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's like you lot have learned absolutely nothing in recent years.

Are you high? Every appointment bar Ole (who you've loved) has been literally the opposite

• Moyes had 750 ish games under his belt.
• LVG had 800 ish games.
• Mourinho had 765 ish.

 

[crossy1686]

Thank goodness you are here to impart truth and wisdom to 'us lot'.

For the record, I remember you being absolutely rabid in shutting down ANY criticism of Ole in his first year or two - you were like a dog with a fecking bone. And that criticism turned out to be completely valid - all of Ole's flaws are still there for all to see. So maybe you don't know quite as much as you think you do.

Maybe I don't but at least I'm more than open to admitting I was wrong about Ole, despite the progress we made int he first few years under him.

And if you can remember what I wrote on here a couple of years ago, you should probably get out more.