Skills
Snitch
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 42,066
What was so good about his team, when they actually had the ball?agree to disagree then. I remember Pochs Spurs team to be a good pressing team that certainly didn't produce bland football.
What was so good about his team, when they actually had the ball?agree to disagree then. I remember Pochs Spurs team to be a good pressing team that certainly didn't produce bland football.
I think there's a few people who are desperate for one or the other to get the job so they're trying to downplay the others achievements or write them off already. I think most of us just want the manager that has the best chance of success at United. Anyone saying that they know definitely the manager they're backing will succeed has had a large dose of space cakes.I don't get this weird dick measuring contest between 2 coaches who have done feck all in a top league, like the Poch brigade trying to big up his top 4 finishes with Spurs and failed CL runs, or Ten Hag fanboys pointing to meaningless Dutch league titles and failed CL runs. To me there'snothing that points definitivelyto either of them being more likely to win a big trophy with United, but at least with Ten Hag we'llbe good to watch while trying.
No, think Mourinho with more pressing in the final 3rd, kinda like early Simeone at Atletico before he ditched the pressing.
Watch the game where they beat Madrid 3-1 to end their 30 game group stage unbeaten run. Of course Madrid went on to win the UCL but Spurs played some brilliant stuff and is a really good example of Spurs in their zone with Poch as their manager.What was so good about his team, when they actually had the ball?
But instead you want someone who won't ever turn us into perenial winners but instead into perenial late stage Arsenal, challenging but not quiet there. Gotcha!Do you want Rodgers? Should we beg Van Gaal to come back? They have won the FA Cup.
You judge someone for the entire quality of their work. Pochettino for my money has proven that he can move clubs to higher in the league and further in competitions than they would be otherwise. For a club that has underperformed comparatively with our level of investment that sounds very exciting.
I personally don't want someone to have a reign like Jose's where they win a League Cup but put us in a position that we will never develop enough to challenge for the major honours that Man Utd should be challenging for. I think based on what I have seen Pochettino has the ability to build us to a position that we do that again. The fact that he didn't win a carling cup along the way at Spurs or Southampton does not make me doubt that.
He has had 1 job in his career where the club was competitive in the transfer market compared to the rest of the league and he is on track to win the league by a record points total. If I am proved wrong then I am proved wrong but I think he is an absolutely excellent coach who is not at the tail end of his working career and it would be the first time we have been able to say that since Sir Alex retired.
Um, that's false. Poch side got on average 60% possession with Spurs every season. When did Mou ever play possession football?No, think Mourinho with more pressing in the final 3rd, kinda like early Simeone at Atletico before he ditched the pressing.
I think we might go in hard for Rice in January. If we're still in the CL especially, and with Poch on board that could be a game changer.the discussion in this thread has won me over a little bit
if he gets appointed I hope the club gives him some funds to bring in a midfielder in January
I think they might though as the threat of missing top four is very real
So you've shown a Tweet, by an account called Ajax FC that paints Ten Hag in a positive light? All this talk of mentality is great and all that but what about Rodgers? He did something similar at Celtic no? Let's have a look at the UEFA club coefficients shall we? How do they rank the leagues in terms of strength?Dig me out a quote like this one by Poch.
Winning is all about mentality. And our team and supporters have become mentally weak. It's time to change that. Ole has shown that no matter the money you throw at the team, you still need the mentality to cross the line into winning trophies.
United DNA is about winning and winning with style. Not this pragmatic bogus we've been pedled for the last years because we had incompetent or unambitios managers in charge.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The fact is I don't actually believe either of them are likely to win anything of importance in the next 2 or 3 seasons, Klopp and Pep are the best 2 coaches in the world, their teams are well oiled machines who have tasted success in the 2 biggest competitions and their overall club structures are vastly suprior to ours. I just want us to hire the manager who's team I'll actually enjoy watching as he tries to build us into contenders, thus Ten Hag is who I want,I think there's a few people who are desperate for one or the other to get the job so they're trying to downplay the others achievements or write them off already. I think most of us just want the manager that has the best chance of success at United. Anyone saying that they know definitely the manager they're backing will succeed has had a large dose of space cakes.
Not only did we never have an easy game (other than the game Rooney stumbled through their defense for a solo goal) but there were matches in which it would have been an upset if we beat them. Didn’t he get them their first win at OT for a long time against Fergie in the match Clint Dempsey scored the winner?They didn’t win anything, but like - it’s still Tottenham! Taking Spurs to a champions league final is a bloody great achievement. Under him they went from a laughing stock to a serious proposition, and we never had an easy game against them. I feel like that’s a base level we need to recover before we start thinking about winning anything tbh.
You are proving my point against yourself.But instead you want someone who won't ever turn us into perenial winners but instead into perenial late stage Arsenal, challenging but not quiet there. Gotcha!
Thanks for pointing out Rodgers and LVG. I forgot about them. Kind of shows that you don't have to be and elite manager with billions spend to win trophies.
Spurs had the 3rd highest possession rate in 16/17 (behind City and Liverpool) and the 2nd highest in 17/18 (behind City). Those Poch teams had more possession than United has had in a long time, so it's kind of ridiculous to use that to argue against Poch.What was so good about his team, when they actually had the ball?
No that game was under AVB in 2012 when Bale absolutely skinned Rio to scoreNot only did we never have an easy game (other than the game Rooney stumbled through their defense for a solo goal) but there were matches in which it would have been an upset if we beat them. Didn’t he get them their first win at OT for a long time against Fergie in the match Clint Dempsey scored the winner?
Ugh, meaningless stats, it's like pointing to Scott McTominay's pass completion without context, or Real Madrid's record goal tally under Mourinho and equating it to them being good to watch.Um, that's false. Poch side got on average 60% possession with Spurs every season. When did Mou ever play possession football?
Edit: Also, Mou's teams never pressed. Poch's Spurs and Southampton were the kings of pressing. Mou was all about keeping it compact.
What context? Poch's Spurs were dominating possession in almost every match. It's not a meaningless stat at all. As far as Mourinho's Real Madrid, yes they were very exciting, especially in that season. Just because Mourinho is known as a defensive manager doesn't mean he didn't have seasons where his teams were very entertaining to watch. Madrid is one such example, his first stint at Chelsea is another.Ugh, meaningless stats, it's like pointing to Scott McTominay's pass completion without context, or Real Madrid's record goal tally under Mourinho and equating it to them being good to watch.
I never said Mourinho's teams pressed, I said Pochettino's style was Mourinho's reactive structure with more pressing in the final 3rd, like Simeone in his earlier seasons at Atletico.
Am I?You are proving my point against yourself.
(To help you out) a random FA Cup win does not mean anything comparatively to someone that has shown the talent to overachieve to the point that they could build a team to win major honours that actually matter at a big club that will back them.
"Perrenial winner" posting Ten Hag quotes Jesus wept, a perennial winner in a farmers league who lost the biggest game of his career to Pochettino in bottling fashion. Brendan Rodgers is a "perennial winner" in farmers leagues and has a bunch of cracking inspirational quotes, go nuts.
Carry on.
Your point is? Sir Alex came from Scotland.So you've shown a Tweet, by an account called Ajax FC that paints Ten Hag in a positive light? All this talk of mentality is great and all that but what about Rodgers? He did something similar at Celtic no? Let's have a look at the UEFA club coefficients shall we? How do they rank the leagues in terms of strength?
As you can see, the Dutch league is closer to Austria and Scotland than it is any of the other leagues. But yeah, I'm sure Ten Hag would win a PL...
That's a pub quiz question in 20 years or so...If Poch came here, would he be the only manager ever to have managed both Messi and Ronaldo?
The context of you can have possession stats that look good on paper but when you see the actual football it's directionless possession, not actually moving the opposition around with your possession to pick holes like City and Liverpool do. If you thought those teams were entertaining.....each to their own.What context? Poch's Spurs were dominating possession in almost every match. It's not a meaningless stat at all. As far as Mourinho's Real Madrid, yes they were very exciting, especially in that season. Just because Mourinho is known as a defensive manager doesn't mean he didn't have seasons where his teams were very entertaining to watch. Madrid is one such example, his first stint at Chelsea is another.
Poch's Spurs and Southampton generally pressed all over. Don't know where you get the Simeone comparison from.
Really? That's not how I remember them.The context of you can have possession stats that look good on paper but when you see the actual football it's directionless possession, not actually moving the opposition around with your possession to pick holes like City and Liverpool do. If you thought those teams were entertaining.....each to their own.
Did you watch Atletico under Simeone in his early seasons? His players pressed like demons to the point he had to curtail it as it wasn't sustainable as his players were ran into the ground. The comparison is that Simeone and
Pochettino have their teams press but ultimately they are bland, dull coaches who approach the game with a pragmatic solid defensive structure looking for counter attack turnovers, and who approach any decent opponent with a low block fetal position style of play.
Which ones are you referring to?Really? That's not how I remember them.
I think Poch Spurs did precisely what you're saying. Your arguments make no sense. Senseless possesssion would be what we witnessed under Van GaalThe context of you can have possession stats that look good on paper but when you see the actual football it's directionless possession, not actually moving the opposition around with your possession to pick holes like City and Liverpool do. If you thought those teams were entertaining.....each to their own.
No, I've only watched their CL matches and some league matches. But from what I've seen Atletico has never been a pressing team. It's always been a very structured, very compact team hitting on the break, even when they won their first La Liga 2013 I think. They gladly ceded possesssion to the other teams often enough and generally didn't care about the ball whatsoever. There's a reason why Simeone was seen as Jose's successor back in the day. Poch and Simeone's teams play nothing alike. I think you have confused Atletico's aggressiveness with pressing. Those are two different things.Did you watch Atletico under Simeone in his early seasons? His players pressed like demons to the point he had to curtail it as it wasn't sustainable as his players were ran into the ground. The comparison is that Simeone and
Pochettino have their teams press but ultimately they are bland, dull coaches who approach the game with a pragmatic solid defensive structure looking for counter attack turnovers, and who approach any decent opponent with a low block fetal position style of play.
I'll don't remember his Spurs being bland.Which ones are you referring to?
MoPo would love McTominay based on that.Here's a piece on him being influenced by Biesla.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hettino-tottenham-premier-league-best-defence
Pochettino's Spurs possession was much more akin to LvG's, boring and for the sake of it, not like City, Liverpool, Ajax, Dortmund in the past, the idea his Spurs side were anything like Klopp's Liverpool or Pep's teams is crazy.I think Poch Spurs did precisely what you're saying. Your arguments make no sense. Senseless possesssion would be what we witnessed under Van Gaal
No, I've only watched their CL matches and some league matches. But from what I've seen Atletico has never been a pressing team. It's always been a very structured, very compact team hitting on the break, even when they won their first La Liga 2013 I think. They gladly ceded possesssion to the other teams often enough and generally didn't care about the ball whatsoever. There's a reason why Simeone was seen as Jose's successor back in the day. Poch and Simeone's teams play nothing alike. I think you have confused Atletico's aggressiveness with pressing. Those are two different things.
That's a pessimistic leap. He didn't cross my mind reading that.MoPo would love McTominay based on that.
I guess it depends on how you define bland, to me they were a hard working side with some good forwards that looked for the counter, they didnt play good football that entertained the neutral, they weren't a team I'd go out of my way to watch weekly like Dortmund back in that period or Valencia back in the day.I'll don't remember his Spurs being bland.
Can see Bruno and Donny being good at pressing from the front. A disciplined Dalot is certainly better in attack than Wan Bissaka as a full back.High tempo press especially centrally and overloaded the midfield with deep attackers and advanced centre backs and heavily reliant on full backs to break into the wide spaces.
Can you show me a game in which Atletico did what you're describing? I've never once in my life seen Atletico playing the football you've described. Atletico has always been bland in possession because they never even cared about possession . In most seasons they have less than 50% of the ball on average. How do you find the similarities between Spurs and Atletico, I have no idea. Might as well say Guardiola and Koeman play similar football next.Pochettino's Spurs possession was much more akin to LvG's, boring and for the sake of it, not like City, Liverpool, Ajax, Dortmund in the past, the idea his Spurs side were anything like Klopp's Liverpool or Pep's teams is crazy.
I used to watch them most weekends when he was first in charge as he was a slice of madness on that touchline, no team outworked or outpressed Atletico, and it's the same with Poch's Spurs, they worked hard, pressed high up, but were ultimately bland in possession and always approached good teams with the backfoot mentality.
Yeah until Zidane takes over at PSG shortly after.If Poch came here, would he be the only manager ever to have managed both Messi and Ronaldo?
I loved that Valencia team.I guess it depends on how you define bland, to me they were hard working side with some good forwards that looked for the counter, they didnt play good football that entertained the neurral, they weren't a team I'd go out of my way to watch weekly like Dortmund back in that period or Valencia back in the day.
Why do you keep mentioning Atletico in possession when I'm clearly talking about them pressing and countering, like Pochettino's Spurs side, and not going toe to toe with good opposition, instead opting for the fetal position like Poch does, I've not once said Atletico were good in possession, where I disagree is you think Spurs were good in possession.Can you show me a game in which Atletico did what you're describing? I've never once in my life seen Atletico playing the football you've described. Atletico has always been bland in possession because they never even cared about possession . In most seasons they have less than 50% of the ball on average. How do you find the similarities between Spurs and Atletico, I have no idea. Might as well say Guardiola and Koeman play similar football next.
Can see Bruno and Donny being good at pressing from the front. A disciplined Dalot is certainly better in attack than Wan Bissaka as a full back.
Varane and Lindelof are more comfortable on the ball than Maguire and Bailly.
Only question is Ronaldo. Would he be capable of pressing from the front? Cavani is more suited to a high press with his high work rate than Ronny.
You said Atletico was bland in possession like controlling the ball was ever in their aim, they've always been a counter-attacking team. The closest example would be Jose's Inter. And yes, Spurs were good in possession. They regularly dominated other teams via the ball, were active and scored a lot of goals. Only ones that I would consider better at the time were Guardiola's City. Sure, you prefer Ten Hag, but let's not rewrite history here to make Poch look bad and Ten Hag look good. I remember back in the day everyone raving about Poch and how magnificient his Spurs team is. Now suddenly they're shit, not good enough, park the bus team. Ridiculous.Why do you keep mentioning Atletico in possession when I'm clearly talking about them pressing and countering, like Pochettino's Spurs side, and not going toe to toe with good opposition, instead opting for the fetal position like Poch does, I've not once said Atletico were good in possession, where I disagree is you think Spurs were good in possession.
Not harsh, just didn't find them entertaining, they were just a run of the mill side in their style of play, like Chelsea under Tuchel now, effective but not a team I'd go out of my way to watch.I loved that Valencia team.
I think you're being harsh on his Spurs team as entertainment.
And right now a hard working team that was good at anything would be great.
They weren't really a predominantly counter attacking side, they packed midfield and usually dominated possession.