What was so good about his team, when they actually had the ball?
Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I think there's a few people who are desperate for one or the other to get the job so they're trying to downplay the others achievements or write them off already. I think most of us just want the manager that has the best chance of success at United. Anyone saying that they know definitely the manager they're backing will succeed has had a large dose of space cakes.
Watch the game where they beat Madrid 3-1 to end their 30 game group stage unbeaten run. Of course Madrid went on to win the UCL but Spurs played some brilliant stuff and is a really good example of Spurs in their zone with Poch as their manager.
But instead you want someone who won't ever turn us into perenial winners but instead into perenial late stage Arsenal, challenging but not quiet there. Gotcha!
Thanks for pointing out Rodgers and LVG. I forgot about them. Kind of shows that you don't have to be and elite manager with billions spend to win trophies.
Um, that's false. Poch side got on average 60% possession with Spurs every season. When did Mou ever play possession football?
Edit: Also, Mou's teams never pressed. Poch's Spurs and Southampton were the kings of pressing. Mou was all about keeping it compact.
I think we might go in hard for Rice in January. If we're still in the CL especially, and with Poch on board that could be a game changer.
So you've shown a Tweet, by an account called Ajax FC that paints Ten Hag in a positive light? All this talk of mentality is great and all that but what about Rodgers? He did something similar at Celtic no? Let's have a look at the UEFA club coefficients shall we? How do they rank the leagues in terms of strength?
As you can see, the Dutch league is closer to Austria and Scotland than it is any of the other leagues. But yeah, I'm sure Ten Hag would win a PL...
The fact is I don't actually believe either of them are likely to win anything of importance in the next 2 or 3 seasons, Klopp and Pep are the best 2 coaches in the world, their teams are well oiled machines who have tasted success in the 2 biggest competitions and their overall club structures are vastly suprior to ours. I just want us to hire the manager who's team I'll actually enjoy watching as he tries to build us into contenders, thus Ten Hag is who I want,
Pochettino bores me.
Not only did we never have an easy game (other than the game Rooney stumbled through their defense for a solo goal) but there were matches in which it would have been an upset if we beat them. Didn’t he get them their first win at OT for a long time against Fergie in the match Clint Dempsey scored the winner?
You are proving my point against yourself.
(To help you out) a random FA Cup win does not mean anything comparatively to someone that has shown the talent to overachieve to the point that they could build a team to win major honours that actually matter at a big club that will back them.
"Perrenial winner" posting Ten Hag quotes Jesus wept, a perennial winner in a farmers league who lost the biggest game of his career to Pochettino in bottling fashion. Brendan Rodgers is a "perennial winner" in farmers leagues and has a bunch of cracking inspirational quotes, go nuts.
Carry on.
Spurs had the 3rd highest possession rate in 16/17 (behind City and Liverpool) and the 2nd highest in 17/18 (behind City). Those Poch teams had more possession than United has had in a long time, so it's kind of ridiculous to use that to argue against Poch.
Pochs Spurs team also scored 86 and 74 in those two seasons. Can you guess which club hasn't done that since a certain GOAT manager retired in 2013?
The only manager I would be genuinely excited for if he comes post Fergie.
I think I would agree with many others and say between Poch and Ten Hag it would be close but with the former, he's known quantity and I believe if he can implement his approach with our current team, it'll be exciting. I also think this squad is quite well suited for him too with enough options to be able to show tactical flexibility.
Ten Hag would be a bigger gamble and potentially higher rewards but he would not be safeguarded with a competent board if it doesn't go progressively well in his first season.
I'll liken it to Pep after his first season here in England; he'll realise he won't just be able to dominate teams at will with good tactical formations and ball retention. It's also about being athletically imposing or finding ways to motivate and counter the physicality of the way the Premier League games are (i.e why we see the constant rota of pressing midgets Silvas, Gundogan, Foden, KDB etc get run into the ground). At City Pep was able to grow tactically but also buy a complete new back four or buy another proven quality etc every season. Similar to Klopp when he realised he couldn't press the feck out of teams or attack at wreckless abandon. He was also able to grow but he also had the gift of Barca's massive Suarez and Countinho's fees to improve his squad immeasurably. To be fair, he's done a more impressive job inspite of his club's transfer backing imo.
Poch and Ten Hag are not near those two at their stage of their careers and it's all speculation based on their track record to think who would better suit Utd.
For my expectations, which are firmly in check with just getting the team to play above the sum of its parts and 'challenging', my bet would be Poch. It's ludicrous to judge 'winning ability' between these two as neither have 'it'. Neither did Klopp or Pep when they arrived as sole entities, who without their club's structure and timing of events were not seen as sure-fire successes.
If we are to compare them to Enrique, Mancini and Zidane then that's a different conversation but similar arguments for and against. Besides, those look like outside shots at this moment.
I think I would agree with many others and say between Poch and Ten Hag it would be close but with the former, he's known quantity and I believe if he can implement his approach with our current team, it'll be exciting. I also think this squad is quite well suited for him too with enough options to be able to show tactical flexibility.
Ten Hag would be a bigger gamble and potentially higher rewards but he would not be safeguarded with a competent board if it doesn't go progressively well in his first season.
I'll liken it to Pep after his first season here in England; he'll realise he won't just be able to dominate teams at will with good tactical formations and ball retention. It's also about being athletically imposing or finding ways to motivate and counter the physicality of the way the Premier League games are (i.e why we see the constant rota of pressing midgets Silvas, Gundogan, Foden, KDB etc get run into the ground). At City Pep was able to grow tactically but also buy a complete new back four or buy another proven quality etc every season. Similar to Klopp when he realised he couldn't press the feck out of teams or attack at wreckless abandon. He was also able to grow but he also had the gift of Barca's massive Suarez and Countinho's fees to improve his squad immeasurably. To be fair, he's done a more impressive job inspite of his club's transfer backing imo.
Poch and Ten Hag are not near those two at their stage of their careers and it's all speculation based on their track record to think who would better suit Utd.
For my expectations, which are firmly in check with just getting the team to play above the sum of its parts and 'challenging', my bet would be Poch. It's ludicrous to judge 'winning ability' between these two as neither have 'it'. Neither did Klopp or Pep when they arrived as sole entities, who without their club's structure and timing of events were not seen as sure-fire successes.
If we are to compare them to Enrique, Mancini and Zidane then that's a different conversation but similar arguments for and against. Besides, those look like outside shots at this moment.
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No that game was under AVB in 2012 when Bale absolutely skinned Rio to score
Ugh, meaningless stats, it's like pointing to Scott McTominay's pass completion without context, or Real Madrid's record goal tally under Mourinho and equating it to them being good to watch.
I never said Mourinho's teams pressed, I said Pochettino's style was Mourinho's reactive structure with more pressing in the final 3rd, like Simeone in his earlier seasons at Atletico.
What context? Poch's Spurs were dominating possession in almost every match. It's not a meaningless stat at all. As far as Mourinho's Real Madrid, yes they were very exciting, especially in that season. Just because Mourinho is known as a defensive manager doesn't mean he didn't have seasons where his teams were very entertaining to watch. Madrid is one such example, his first stint at Chelsea is another.
Poch's Spurs and Southampton generally pressed all over. Don't know where you get the Simeone comparison from.
all the psg job seems like a mismatch
manager known from creating the most hardworking teams, hired to train divas team with no work rate front three, it won't be that easy in United aswell, cause ronaldo, sancho, greenwood aren't off the ball hardworkers aswell, althought we have 3 young wingers in rashford, greenwood and sancho who i think still can be coached
worth to remind, from MnF
imgur.com/zR8iRQW
imgur.com/TYp3b0a
manager known from creating the most hardworking teams, hired to train divas team with no work rate front three, it won't be that easy in United aswell, cause ronaldo, sancho, greenwood aren't off the ball hardworkers aswell, althought we have 3 young wingers in rashford, greenwood and sancho who i think still can be coached
worth to remind, from MnF
imgur.com/zR8iRQW
imgur.com/TYp3b0a
Happy to take Pochettino, always thought him a good fit for Utd ….let’s just get it done.
Am I?
You're the one droning on about how Poch did an amazing job on a shoestring budget, yet you ignore the fact that Ten Hag's Ajax team cost a fraction of Poch's Spurs team. And even then Poch had to resort to hoofball and a 95 minute winner to scrape through. Hard to call it a bottling.
I see you're ignoring the fact that Wenger used to do what Poch was doing for years. But unlike Poch he would win the occasional FA cup here and there. The difference is we would laugh at Wenger, but for some reason, Poch who is a poor man's late stage Wenger is deemed as a great option for out club.
Sigh, how the standards have fallen on here.
Your point is? Sir Alex came from Scotland.So you've shown a Tweet, by an account called Ajax FC that paints Ten Hag in a positive light? All this talk of mentality is great and all that but what about Rodgers? He did something similar at Celtic no? Let's have a look at the UEFA club coefficients shall we? How do they rank the leagues in terms of strength?
As you can see, the Dutch league is closer to Austria and Scotland than it is any of the other leagues. But yeah, I'm sure Ten Hag would win a PL...
If you're good enough, you're good enough. The fact that you're stuck in a farmers league is absolutely irrelevant. Just look at Tuchel for example.
Also what did Rodgers do at Celtic? Did they hammer Real Madrid, Juve, Dortmund? ETH has his European record that speaks for him. Poch also has a very respectable European record. The difference is the way they play. And that for me is the reason I want ETH here instead of Poch.
If Poch came here, would he be the only manager ever to have managed both Messi and Ronaldo?
That's a pub quiz question in 20 years or so...
The context of you can have possession stats that look good on paper but when you see the actual football it's directionless possession, not actually moving the opposition around with your possession to pick holes like City and Liverpool do. If you thought those teams were entertaining.....each to their own.
Did you watch Atletico under Simeone in his early seasons? His players pressed like demons to the point he had to curtail it as it wasn't sustainable as his players were ran into the ground. The comparison is that Simeone and Pochettino have their teams press but ultimately they are bland, dull coaches who approach the game with a pragmatic solid defensive structure looking for counter attack turnovers, and who approach any decent opponent with a low block fetal position style of play.
Really? That's not how I remember them.
Pochettino isn't fit to lace Erik Ten Hag's shoes.
Which ones are you referring to?
I think Poch Spurs did precisely what you're saying. Your arguments make no sense. Senseless possesssion would be what we witnessed under Van Gaal
No, I've only watched their CL matches and some league matches. But from what I've seen Atletico has never been a pressing team. It's always been a very structured, very compact team hitting on the break, even when they won their first La Liga 2013 I think. They gladly ceded possesssion to the other teams often enough and generally didn't care about the ball whatsoever. There's a reason why Simeone was seen as Jose's successor back in the day. Poch and Simeone's teams play nothing alike. I think you have confused Atletico's aggressiveness with pressing. Those are two different things.
I'll don't remember his Spurs being bland.
Here's a piece on him being influenced by Biesla.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hettino-tottenham-premier-league-best-defence
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...hettino-tottenham-premier-league-best-defence
Prefer ETH but bitcoin Poch is great too. Please make it happen soon.
MoPo would love McTominay based on that.
Pochettino's Spurs possession was much more akin to LvG's, boring and for the sake of it, not like City, Liverpool, Ajax, Dortmund in the past, the idea his Spurs side were anything like Klopp's Liverpool or Pep's teams is crazy.
I used to watch them most weekends when he was first in charge as he was a slice of madness on that touchline, no team outworked or outpressed Atletico, and it's the same with Poch's Spurs, they worked hard, pressed high up, but were ultimately bland in possession and always approached good teams with the backfoot mentality.
That's a pessimistic leap. He didn't cross my mind reading that. Or maybe he'll be amazing under Poch.
I guess it depends on how you define bland, to me they were a hard working side with some good forwards that looked for the counter, they didnt play good football that entertained the neutral, they weren't a team I'd go out of my way to watch weekly like Dortmund back in that period or Valencia back in the day.
Can see Bruno and Donny being good at pressing from the front. A disciplined Dalot is certainly better in attack than Wan Bissaka as a full back.
Varane and Lindelof are more comfortable on the ball than Maguire and Bailly.
Only question is Ronaldo. Would he be capable of pressing from the front? Cavani is more suited to a high press with his high work rate than Ronny.
Can you show me a game in which Atletico did what you're describing? I've never once in my life seen Atletico playing the football you've described. Atletico has always been bland in possession because they never even cared about possession . In most seasons they have less than 50% of the ball on average. How do you find the similarities between Spurs and Atletico, I have no idea. Might as well say Guardiola and Koeman play similar football next.
Yeah until Zidane takes over at PSG shortly after.
I loved that Valencia team.
I think you're being harsh on his Spurs team as entertainment.
And right now a hard working team that was good at anything would be great.
They weren't really a predominantly counter attacking side, they packed midfield and usually dominated possession.
Why do you keep mentioning Atletico in possession when I'm clearly talking about them pressing and countering, like Pochettino's Spurs side, and not going toe to toe with good opposition, instead opting for the fetal position like Poch does, I've not once said Atletico were good in possession, where I disagree is you think Spurs were good in possession.
Ah Ronaldo as amazing as he can be is 36, I think he has a purpose but we have a lot of youth up front as well as Cavani. We have a lot of options upfront for someone brave enough to try them.
You said Atletico was bland in possession like controlling the ball was ever in their aim, they've always been a counter-attacking team. The closest example would be Jose's Inter. And yes, Spurs were good in possession. They regularly dominated other teams via the ball, were active and scored a lot of goals. Only ones that I would consider better at the time were Guardiola's City. Sure, you prefer Ten Hag, but let's not rewrite history here to make Poch look bad and Ten Hag look good. I remember back in the day everyone raving about Poch and how magnificient his Spurs team is. Now suddenly they're shit, not good enough, park the bus team. Ridiculous.
Not harsh, just didn't find them entertaining, they were just a run of the mill side in their style of play, like Chelsea under Tuchel now, effective but not a team I'd go out of my way to watch.
Like I said to the other guy, the possession was like the possession we had under LvG, it wasn't like a Pep or Klopp teams possession where they suffocate teams and turn them dizzy with the variety of passing and movement, it's basic keep ball in the deeper areas. The bigger issue is that he approaches every big game negatively, I'm so sick if seeing this at United.
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