I was also thinking this. Big brown envelopes to sign this off.
Just like the half points race that wasn't a race. The ruling bodies in F1 have crumbled.
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Just like the half points race that wasn't a race. The ruling bodies in F1 have crumbled.
Pointless.
So the stewards have confirmed a brake test and the result for that is only a 10 second penalty? Doesn’t that mean if you’re leading a rival in a race but you’ll lose a championship you can brake test then and hope they lose a wing and you’re OK? For example in 2016 Lewis is leading Rosberg but he needs Rosberg further back. Well, Brake test him, accept your 10 second and you might put him out of the race.
Yep.
People talk about this being a great F1 rivalry and racing etc. But if one driver isn't following the rules and isn't being punished, then it's not really proper racing is it.
Looks like the stewards have dealt with all the business from the race now. They've issued the final race classifications, with 5+10 second time penalties for Verstappen, finishing 21.8 seconds behind Hamilton, and a 5-second penalty for Tsunoda.
Also, issued the updated championship points classification, with Mazepin still managing to place 21st in a 20-driver championship.
Also, issued the updated championship points classification, with Mazepin still managing to place 21st in a 20-driver championship.
God you talk some rubbish.
So the penalty equates to no penalty. That's just dumb.
I get they dont want to affect the outcome of this title race, but the amount of shit Max has gotten away with these past few races is absolutely ridiculous.
I get they dont want to affect the outcome of this title race, but the amount of shit Max has gotten away with these past few races is absolutely ridiculous.
It always been the case with making changes at red flags, part of the reason it’s a red flag is debris on the ground are you going to punish drivers who have a slow puncture and make them come in once the race has started, lewis benefited from it a few weeks back repairing parts of the car.
Drs will probably be fazed out after next season
Effectively, they’re saying Verstappen is to blame for causing a very unnecessary collision, but the punishment handed out seems to have been diluted to preserve entertainment going into next week. That’s an awfully dangerous precedent that they’re setting
No no. "Hamilton drove into him".
Ridiculous that anyone can defend this guy.
The FIA and F1 corporate are desperate for Max to be champion. It stinks.
The simple answer is confusion and a lack of vision.
In that scenario you have to ask;
Why is Max slowing to a halt on a 180mph straight while in the lead of a race?
All Hamilton can see is the back of Max's car. For all he knows there could be a 3 car pile up ahead of them, or debris on the track that they're having to slow down for.
Once he realises he's going even slower he tries to swerve, but he's so close he has to downforce and his brakes hardly work and the steering circle isn't fast enough to get around.
I think in that moment you just wouldn't expect what Max is doing. There's a reason why in the rules going purposely slow on a straight is deemed dangerous driving.
Whether Max did it on purpose to try and bash him? well that's impossible to say, but i'd say his reputation for mischief was definitely a prime cause for Hamilton not trusting him.
Will be bonus points for doing it on the PS5 F1 game next year. Brake test bonus.
If either of them try that next week you would want them to be disqualified in the same way Schumacher was in 97.
You’d want that, but today suggests otherwise. The stewards explicitly say he suddenly hit the brakes, a 10s penalty is baffling.
He could see quite a bit more than that. The picture below is almost immediately before they make contact.
I know the head of the driver is seated lower, but he could see ahead through the corner. At least enough to know there's not anything occuring ahead.
In any case, any incident involving a car is flagged within seconds.
Max didn't do it on purpose to 'try and bash him'. He wanted Lewis to pass him before the DRS detection zone. He slowed quite a bit earlier, but Lewis didn't overtake. That part's in the FIA documents based on the driver's explanations. It's more likely Max started braking to make sure Lewis passed in time, expecting Lewis to know he was letting him go past, and Max trying to force the issue.
Also, Hamilton was on the radio after the incident in turn 1 on lap 37, when they touch before Verstappen left the track.
The contact when Lewis hit the back off Max was towards the end of the same lap.
If anything, it's a lot more natural for Lewis to assume he's giving the place back, rather than suspecting mischief.
But as Lewis apparently weren't told in time that Max would let him past, he'd be a bit indecisive for sure. Helped by Max swerving a bit.
Verstappen winning the world title would be intolerable. His antics have just been so spoiled, entitled, and dangerous, I simply cannot stand to see that sort of behaviour rewarded. I love to see aggressive, exciting competition, but fair competition. Two amazing drivers battling it out. None of these shady tactics. Verstappen constantly crosses the line to the reckless, to the point where it is easy to call it cheating. He keeps doing it because he is never properly punished. It's made worse by his garage. Horner is one of the most insufferable, odious sports personalities I have ever come across. I don't want him to be a part of a winning anything.
I'm hopeful that Verstappen can grow up and become the great champion that he so obviously is in the making. But to win it like this, with the shit he's engaged in this season.....Well, I just hope it doesn't happen.
I'm hopeful that Verstappen can grow up and become the great champion that he so obviously is in the making. But to win it like this, with the shit he's engaged in this season.....Well, I just hope it doesn't happen.
mate that’s the view from the onboard camera mounted a good amount above his head position. he doesn’t have that view at all.He could see quite a bit more than that. The picture below is almost immediately before they make contact.
I know the head of the driver is seated lower, but he could see ahead through the corner. At least enough to know there's not anything occuring ahead.
In any case, any incident involving a car is flagged within seconds.
Max didn't do it on purpose to 'try and bash him'. He wanted Lewis to pass him before the DRS detection zone. He slowed quite a bit earlier, but Lewis didn't overtake. That part's in the FIA documents based on the driver's explanations. It's more likely Max started braking to make sure Lewis passed in time, expecting Lewis to know he was letting him go past, and Max trying to force the issue.
Also, Hamilton was on the radio after the incident in turn 1 on lap 37, when they touch before Verstappen left the track.
The contact when Lewis hit the back off Max was towards the end of the same lap.
If anything, it's a lot more natural for Lewis to assume he's giving the place back, rather than suspecting mischief.
But as Lewis apparently weren't told in time that Max would let him past, he'd be a bit indecisive for sure. Helped by Max swerving a bit.
trust me in that position all he can see is the back of max’s car. it’s like sitting in a small car right behind a van and trying to see the road ahead
and yes, he did brake hard intentionally. Why would you slam your foot on the brake with somebody behind you otherwise? there’s no excuse for it. they have it there in black and white he braked heavily then sped off again
Why? Because I don't like Mercedes and am pointing out that they've done some scummy stuff this race which most on here choose to casually ignore.
- Bottas driving extremely slow during safety car so he would hold everyone up and be able to pit right after Lewis.
How is that allowed? No excuse for it really.
- Lewis purposely slowing down the field and creating a huge gap so Max had to wait extra long for everyone to form up, causing his tyres to cool down immensely which is how Lewis regained first position after the restart. A massive advantage obviously. If stuff like that is allowed these days nobody is going to want to be first on a restart, because you'll have no chance with number 2 and 3 having way better tyre temps. You're a sitting duck.
- Finally there's Lewis purposely running Max off the track at I think it was lap 43 (you can see him looking at Max in his mirror the entire time and going extremely wide) and Masi let him get off with a verbal warning for God knows why. Usually that's a 5s penalty.
Yeah you can say Max/RB did such and such and they were worse, sure, but that should hardly be a factor should it? The stewards should look at incidents objectively. Mercedes got away with everything I just mentioned. But when you mention suddenly it's all about Max/RB and how he's worse and you're just a Max apologist on here or whatever.
At the end of the day there's just no consistency in the penalties this season whatsoever. Whichever way you look at it Masi and the stewards have done a horrible job. Masi needs to go.
No need, they already had two tits in their office after the race.
Addressed the part about visibility in my post.
I didn't say he didn't break.
Slamming the break, and braked heavily is misleading though.
To reach 2.6g deceleration, Max would've decelerated his car by 14m/s(50kph) in roughly half a second (0.55s). That a bit less than half their normal braking for corners.
Yes, it happened fast, but that's mostly because of the relative speed. He had already coasted earlier to let Hamilton past. Keep in mind that Verstappen was expecting Lewis to pass him once he lifted, assuming Hamilton knew Max would let him past. He got impatient because he wanted Hamilton to pass before the DRS detection line. He did end up braking a bit harder than he should have. That's why the steward gave him 10 seconds.
Completely agree 100%. He is the future it's obvious - but not yet until he grows up.
Lewis pushing Max off the road for a 5s penalty
I see we’ve already forgotten Brazil
This. I’d be so willing to like Max, that’s the sad part.
10s penalty, which means nothing. Classic. I get they want to preserve the entertainment of the last race, but if you admit he brake tested there, 10s is just bullshit.
Anyway, at least it’s going to be a super exciting race.
Anyway, at least it’s going to be a super exciting race.
Anyone found any betting sites giving odds that both drivers DNF the final race? I can literally see Verstappen now, locking up and going into Hamilton on the long straight at Abu Dhabi.
Bonkers race.....Lewis had plenty of time to pass whether he knew the position was being given back or not and he didn't. Why not? Both are at fault but Max was always going to get a penalty.
So is the fear of Max doing a Senna because even though they are even on pts, Max would get the WC because of having more wins??
So is the fear of Max doing a Senna because even though they are even on pts, Max would get the WC because of having more wins??
Both are not at fault there. Drivers do not give positions back by slamming the brakes and parking in the middle of the track.
Shit week for you really either way then.
Don’t understand why people are so polarised over these two. It’s a competitive sport and it’s actually competitive for a change, just enjoy it!
It always shit so nothing new for me.
Because in a race where Max had 4 or 5 infractions (overtaking off track x2, rejoining unsafely, brake test, unfair 'let by'), one seriously dangerous, you're trying to play a silly game of whataboutism, including trying to make points that are in no way in violation of the rules (e.g. the gap before the restart). This race is one of the single worst examples of driver behaviour you will see but you want to respond with "but Valteri drove slowly". At no point have I ever seen you acknowledge a single thing Max has done wrong, I'm sure you're probably of the opinion that Brazil (and Spain and Imola and Monza etc.) were just 'racing' incidents. I happen to think Lewis' turn 1 was on the edge, but its not even in the same ballpark as any of those, so to suggest a penalty for Lewis today is laughable. Your constant 'Max vision' on this thread is well known and I'm not really sure why I spend the time to engage with it, but here I am....
Max was downshifting and Lewis knew it because he was downshifting as well....should of passed him.
Also this constant mention of Lewis driving slowly at restarts is so hilarious. It’s basically similar to time wasting in football where teams are kind of just pushing the rules a bit without causing any harm to anyone. Every single race that I have seen recently has had the drivers behind the pole guy driving slowly to get this advantage and it’s been done by both RB & Mercedes. It’s gamesmanship to gain a bit of an advantage which can in no way be compared to kind of stupid stuff Max has pulled off which is clearly endangering safety of other cars & drivers
Max trying every trick in the book here, guy just can't handle being overtaken and can't even give a place back, normally you lift and coast off the racing line and allow the car through and not interrupt your own pace too much but he decides to heavily brake down the middle.
Have to say while a very eventful race, I had my concerns about it being too dangerous and spoiling the flow of the race and it did indeed. I want to see racing drivers going at it lap after lap, not be stopped all the time and laps running out for racing. Not impressed with race control "I can only press so many buttons". F1 seems to be descending into a farce with the current operators.
Have to say while a very eventful race, I had my concerns about it being too dangerous and spoiling the flow of the race and it did indeed. I want to see racing drivers going at it lap after lap, not be stopped all the time and laps running out for racing. Not impressed with race control "I can only press so many buttons". F1 seems to be descending into a farce with the current operators.
I just hope race control don’t have to make significant decisions in the last race deciding the title because I think it’s going to end up in CAS
Problem is, you can't trust passing Max other than on a complete straight, and even then it can be dubious.
Looks like it was a shit show of a race, so I'm glad I didn't stay up for it.
Max really making it impossible to like him these days. In a situation where we have a potentially different title winner for the first time in years, it really takes a shit person to make me cheer for the team/driver who have continually won. Hopefully Hamilton can win comfortably next race, and then a different team can challenge instead of RB next season.
Max really making it impossible to like him these days. In a situation where we have a potentially different title winner for the first time in years, it really takes a shit person to make me cheer for the team/driver who have continually won. Hopefully Hamilton can win comfortably next race, and then a different team can challenge instead of RB next season.
Well that’s not very good in this day and age. They should be able to show degree of breaking surely.
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But why should he go past Max just before the DRS activation line so Max could blast right back past him.
He probably knew that Max was trying to let him past to avoid a penalty even if he didn’t know the direction came from Massi.
The thing was that Max made it obvious that he was only willing to do it on the activation line and also wanted Lewis wide giving him the best line into the DRS zone.
So Lewis wasn’t prepared to allow Max to dictate the passing point so Max broke with Lewis up his rear end.
So they came up with a "punishment" that has absolutely no effect or consequence. Donkeys running the FIA.