F1 2021 Season

F-Red

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The maps situation is clear, and I agree that the specs should technically be the same. My point, however, was about production quality of the individual units. Every manufacture produces non uniform quality items, and the way these might differ here would be in longevity. So what I'd guess is Merc bins the best units for themselves, and the lower quality stock goes to the customers. The complexity of the aggregate makes it impossible to detect this externally , unless someone from the factory actually comes forward.
They're the same, the FIA moved with a technical and sporting directive back in 2018 to mitigate that type of behaviour. In the early days of the hybrid era, there was customer engines that were inferior to the works engines.
 

Cheimoon

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Aston Martin are a customer of Mercedes, they have the current year power unit in their car.
Didn't have last year's engine a few years ago? I thought that's what I remembered. Maybe I'm wrong again. :)
 

The Firestarter

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They're the same, the FIA moved with a technical and sporting directive back in 2018 to mitigate that type of behaviour. In the early days of the hybrid era, there was customer engines that were inferior to the works engines.
I just don't see how this can realistically be enforced.
 

Rooney1987

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It's not even Friday practice and I'm sick of seeing Christian Horner already. I mean before anyone jokes yes I've been sick of him for years but we haven't even started this race weekend and he's all over the media. How anyone can compare him and Toto is beyond me.
 
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The Firestarter

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It's not even Friday practice and I'm sicked seeing Christian Horner already. I mean before anyone jokes yes I've been sick of him for years but we haven't even started this race weekend and he's all over the media. How anyone can compare him and Toto is beyond me.
They are both cnuts.
 

RoadTrip

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It’s going to be electric. Can’t wait. Just hope the championship is won on the road with good racing and not drama about he did x and he did y.
 

telstar96

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They're the same, the FIA moved with a technical and sporting directive back in 2018 to mitigate that type of behaviour. In the early days of the hybrid era, there was customer engines that were inferior to the works engines.
In my opinion F1 made a huge mistake with the Hybrid engine regulations. These engines are incredibly expensive to make and for most of the last decade it just became a development race between Ferrari and Mercedes of who could build the better engine, with astronomical amounts of money being spent to keep a competitive advantage. Hopefully the new cost caps will be enforced strictly and the new engines in 2026 won't be so expensive to design.
 

F-Red

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The Pink Mercedes, right? That's why I said 'Stroll's Team', not 'Aston Martin' (Stroll Sr, to be exact). Was that a last-year's Mercedes engine?
Yeah it was a 2019 Mercedes engine, but all teams from that year used the same engine from 2019 in the 2020 season due to the pandemic.
 

0le

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It's not even Friday practice and I'm sick of seeing Christian Horner already. I mean before anyone jokes yes I've been sick of him for years but we haven't even started this race weekend and he's all over the media. How anyone can compare him and Toto is beyond me.
What exactly is wrong with doing media appearances?
 

slyadams

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In my opinion F1 made a huge mistake with the Hybrid engine regulations. These engines are incredibly expensive to make and for most of the last decade it just became a development race between Ferrari and Mercedes of who could build the better engine, with astronomical amounts of money being spent to keep a competitive advantage. Hopefully the new cost caps will be enforced strictly and the new engines in 2026 won't be so expensive to design.
I think F1 would probably acknowledge that. The new regs I think are going to be simpler, isn't the MGU-H for example going to be removed?
 

elmo

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The Pink Mercedes, right? That's why I said 'Stroll's Team', not 'Aston Martin' (Stroll Sr, to be exact). Was that a last-year's Mercedes engine?
They called it the pink Mercedes not because of the engine but the fact that they copied the design of the car from the previous year's Mercedes.

All Mercedes customers should be using the same engine as what Mercedes themselves are using for that year. It's in the FIA guidelines and Mercedes would be asking for trouble if the performance of the engines provided is lower than their own.
 

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Yeah it was a 2019 Mercedes engine, but all teams from that year used the same engine from 2019 in the 2020 season due to the pandemic.
Ah ok! Thanks for explaining.
They called it the pink Mercedes not because of the engine but the fact that they copied the design of the car from the previous year's Mercedes.

All Mercedes customers should be using the same engine as what Mercedes themselves are using for that year.
Yeah, I knew that, it was just to reference the year. Obviously you can't see that a car has a Mercedes engine just from looking at it from a distance. Even I got that! :D
 

slyadams

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:lol:
This is why I think ultimately the way Horner/RBR are handling him is so wrong. He's not learning anything, he's developing a victim mentality where he can do no wrong and is always being put upon wheras the reality is this season he's got away with more than he's been called for. Genuinely starting to despise this guy, having to listen to him argue black is white and up is down.
 

Cheimoon

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Classic Klopp "look at the amount of penalties Utd get" approach.

Putting pressure on the officials if it comes down tight-calls is smart.
Are there any weather conditions that would specifically affect the design of Red Bull's cars?
 

telstar96

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In my opinion, most drivers are arrogant to the point that they see themselves as never doing any wrong. Some are more overt than others. Whilst I understand it can irritate fans (myself included), I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing. Some drivers are so deluded, yet they still manage to be incredibly successful. Wasn't Seb Vettel like this during his time at Red Bull? He never thought he was in the wrong and whenever he got into hot waters, he would just double down. Furthermore, Horner would just indulge Vettel, making him more and more unbearable. But in the end he was a 4-time World Champion. Personally, I don't like it but I'm not going to say it's the wrong approach, since history would say otherwise.
 

Rooney1987

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What exactly is wrong with doing media appearances?
Do you ever see other team bosses doing that many media appearances outside of race weekends (unless it's a new car)? You can't tell me Christian Horner isn't self obsessed, he loves it.
 

0le

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Do you ever see other team bosses doing that many media appearances outside of race weekends (unless it's a new car)? You can't tell me Christian Horner isn't self obsessed, he loves it.
Sorry, but I just do not see the correlation between doing media appearances and being self-obsessed.
 

dinostar77

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Ted Kravitz thinks Mercedes may give Hamilton a fresh engine and a 5 place grid drop to avoid the chance o max taking him out at the first corner. Theoretically starting 6th or 7th with a new PU he could win the GP without having to pass Max at any stage. Get his overtake done via a overcut or undercut.

Comes down to Friday practise and how quick the Merc is. Also depends whether the new changes to layout actually help overtaking on a track notorious for "track position is king".
 

Gringo

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Was just watching this

Eerily familiar to this season.
 

Mickeza

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Ted Kravitz thinks Mercedes may give Hamilton a fresh engine and a 5 place grid drop to avoid the chance o max taking him out at the first corner. Theoretically starting 6th or 7th with a new PU he could win the GP without having to pass Max at any stage. Get his overtake done via a overcut or undercut.

Comes down to Friday practise and how quick the Merc is. Also depends whether the new changes to layout actually help overtaking on a track notorious for "track position is king".
Seems a risk. Surely there’s more chance he crashes in the middle of the pack starting the race? If the Merc is super fast then bottas should be able to get P2 and act as a buffer. I wouldn’t try to get too cute if I was Mercedes.
 

Buster15

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Seems a risk. Surely there’s more chance he crashes in the middle of the pack starting the race? If the Merc is super fast then bottas should be able to get P2 and act as a buffer. I wouldn’t try to get too cute if I was Mercedes.
Lots of If's, But's and Maybe's.
I am happy to wait and see.
 

theyneverlearn

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Lewis will be super cautious in the opening laps, I think he knows he has the quicker package, and over a race distance he’ll win comfortably. I wouldn’t expect him to try anything daring in the opening laps, just ease himself into the race and potentially pass the cars he needs sensibly.

Going to be exciting.
 

TheLiverBird

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So am I correct or completely wrong here

If Max “accidentally” crashes into Lewis and they are both out the Race….Max is World Champion?

Is that correct, or technically correct in any way shape or form???
 

theyneverlearn

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So am I correct or completely wrong here

If Max “accidentally” crashes into Lewis and they are both out the Race….Max is World Champion?

Is that correct, or technically correct in any way shape or form???
Yes and no, basically the race director has come out today and has explained that should something like the above happen that is deemed not a racing incident, points can and will be taken away.
 

TheLiverBird

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Cheers guys

Does anyone think regardless to what the race Director says with stating the rules and sportsmanship like behaviour etc…..will Max care? It’s a world Title on the line, and what a way to win it being against the GOAT.

If an opportunity presented itself to take Lewis out with it looking not an obvious take out….surely Max will take it? Win at all costs mentality.

I’m sure however he’ll be aware any such incident will be put under the microscope so even if an opportunity did present itself…perhaps the scrutiny will be in the back of his mind in that it might not necessarily guarantee him the Title

it’s going to be insanely interesting and exciting though regardless
 

ArjenIsM3

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Yes and no, basically the race director has come out today and has explained that should something like the above happen that is deemed not a racing incident, points can and will be taken away.
Which is of course bollocks unless you're a Hamilton fan. It shouldn't matter if it's the first race of the season or the last. The rules should be the same. Suddenly changing the penalties for the last race is ridiculous. 10s penalty then should be a 10s penalty now. It would be very weird to suddenly start handing out WDC point penalties now. If there's a Schumacher style moment from Max (or Lewis) and they disqualify the culprit like they did Schumacher then fair enough. But WDC point penalties now all of a sudden? That just doesn't make sense. What if Max does now what Hamilton did in Silverstone? What happens then?
 

Cheimoon

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Cheers guys

Does anyone think regardless to what the race Director says with stating the rules and sportsmanship like behaviour etc…..will Max care? It’s a world Title on the line, and what a way to win it being against the GOAT.

If an opportunity presented itself to take Lewis out with it looking not an obvious take out….surely Max will take it? Win at all costs mentality.

I’m sure however he’ll be aware any such incident will be put under the microscope so even if an opportunity did present itself…perhaps the scrutiny will be in the back of his mind in that it might not necessarily guarantee him the Title

it’s going to be insanely interesting and exciting though regardless
I really doubt this will happen. He hasn't tried to bump people off the track either, I think these suggestions are way overblown. Also, in his interviews, he keeps saying that he isn't overly fuzzed with the title - 'I do my best and we'll see what it gets me'.

I'm sure he'll be driving on the edge again, like always, and that's risky of course; and he might do something rash to force a situation out of frustration (like the braking last weekend, in an attempt to push Hamilton into overtaking him). But I'd be very surprised if Verstappen would purposefully cause a collision.