Player transformations

BrilliantOrange

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So I was thinking about players who really underwent signifacant transformations during their carreer and really became different players. So I'm not really talking about players just developing into better versions of themselves over time, while remaining the (more or less) the same type of player.. What players come to mind who really became different types of players during their carreer? I'll kick off..

Nigel De Jong
When he came through at Ajax he was a really playfull, technically gifted allround player, who excelled with his energy, playfullness and technical ability. He played on rightback, right midfield, central defence, central midfield.. When he moved to HSV afterwards he really made a mental switch in his head and became a more static, very hard, tackling, routhless, no-nonsense defensive midfielder, which is how he will be remember in collective football memory.

Cristiano Ronaldo
Came to United as a very skilful player who wanted the ball in his feet to make magic happen. Over the years he developed from a inconsisent winger who wanted the ball in his feet to the routhless striker, who mainly moves away from the ball lurking for his moments to come into position to score a goal.. I think its more than just player development where he got better in what he already did..

I think for example Cristiano Ronaldo underwent a more signifact player transformation than - for example - Antiono Valencia. The latter obviously went from attack(ing midfield) to defense where Ronaldo remained an attacker, but Valencia remained a player relying on the same capabilities (altough developing some defense skills) on both positions (RW and RB), where Ronaldo really started relying on a different skillset in his development (on top of the basis technical skills he already possessed).

Thoughts?
 

GL21

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So I was thinking about players who really underwent signifacant transformations during their carreer and really became different players. So I'm not really talking about players just developing into better versions of themselves over time, while remaining the (more or less) the same type of player.. What players come to mind who really became different types of players during their carreer? I'll kick off..

Nigel De Jong
When he came through at Ajax he was a really playfull, technically gifted allround player, who excelled with his energy, playfullness and technical ability. He played on rightback, right midfield, central defence, central midfield.. When he moved to HSV afterwards he really made a mental switch in his head and became a more static, very hard, tackling, routhless, no-nonsense defensive midfielder, which is how he will be remember in collective football memory.

Cristiano Ronaldo
Came to United as a very skilful player who wanted the ball in his feet to make magic happen. Over the years he developed from a inconsisent winger who wanted the ball in his feet to the routhless striker, who mainly moves away from the ball lurking for his moments to come into position to score a goal.. I think its more than just player development where he got better in what he already did..

I think for example Cristiano Ronaldo underwent a more signifact player transformation than - for example - Antiono Valencia. The latter obviously went from attack(ing midfield) to defense where Ronaldo remained an attacker, but Valencia remained a player relying on the same capabilities (altough developing some defense skills) on both positions (RW and RB), where Ronaldo really started relying on a different skillset in his development (on top of the basis technical skills he already possessed).

Thoughts?
Serge Gnabry surprised me from being a fringe arsenal midfielder to a valued Bayern Munich forward. Dr Bruyne and salah have both evolved probably more significantly in terms of value to their teams but maybe less so than Gnabry in terms of positional transformations.

Wasn't michail Antonio a RB breaking onto the scene also at West Ham?
 
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Cloud7

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Schweinsteiger went from an okay winger to one of the best CM's I've ever seen.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Serge Gnabry surprised me from being a fringe arsenal midfielder to a valued Bayern Munich forward. Dr Bruyne and salah have both evolved probably more significantly in terms of value to their teams but maybe less so than Gnabry in terms of positional transformations.

Wasn't michail Antonio a RB breaking onto the scene also at West Ham?
I dont really remember Gnabry at Arsenal to be honest..
 

Oranges038

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I think Ronaldo's knee problem played a part in his transformation. He couldn't sustain the work load and different movements required from a winger.

Ryan Giggs - Flying winger to an accomplished central midfielder.

Scholes - more of a second striker / attacking mid to deep lying playmaker.

Del Piero - quick wide outside left player but after his knee injury he went more central and became a striker/no.10.

I think you have to have an incredible football brain to be able to make such a switich in style.

I dont really remember Gnabry at Arsenal to be honest..
Not surprising, he barely played but he was young. He then went from about 1 loan appearance for West Brom to Bayern via Bremen in one season. Quite the rise.
 

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Gareth Bale transformed from a promising fullback to one of the deadliest forwards in the world.
 

BrilliantOrange

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For the Dutchies.. Willem Janssen sprint to mind.. Came through at Roda as a #10 who made a lot of runs into the opponents box and scored quite some goals, also earning a transfer to the (then recent Champions) FC Twente at that position.. Now in the fall of his carreer he has been a dependable central defender for a couple years now..
 

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Laurent Blanc spent a not an insignificant part of his professional career as an attacking midfielder before switching to play as a center back.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Laurent Blanc spent a not an insignificant part of his professional career as an attacking midfielder before switching to play as a center back.
Really? Where/When was that? And what triggered his transformation?
 

harms

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Really? Where/When was that? And what triggered his transformation?
He started out as one at Montpellier and played there until around 1990 when his manager, Michel Mezy, had suggested that he should drop back to defense where his attributes would be used better, a move that Blanc himself was categorically opposed to. Thankfully, Mezy put it as an ultimatum and Blanc had to give in and turned into one of the best defenders of his generation. His tendency to score a lot even from defense was mainly attributed to his attacking past (for Montpellier he had scored 80 goals in 263 games).

He was a very good midfielder by all accounts, but I guess Mezy had seen his true potential and fair play to him — Blanc would‘ve never had a career that he did if he had continued to play there.

MILAN – "Me play in defence? No way!"

There are times when the advice we're given, even if it comes from people who care about us, is unwanted. And so in 1990, when it was put to Montpellier midfielder Laurent Blanc by his coach, Michel Mezy, that he should drop back into defence, the answer was a categoric no.

Blanc, who had begun his career as a striker before moving into midfield (where he continued to score goals aplenty), simply refused to consider playing even further away from the goal.

So the day before a match, Mezy spent hours in Blanc's room trying to convince him it would be a good move. Blanc wouldn't budge from his position, so eventually Mezy was forced to give him an ultimatum: “Either you play at the back or you don't play at all.”

At the age of 25, Laurent had plenty of misgivings about trying something new but in the end he said he'd give it a go, if for nothing else out of gratitude to the club that had shown so much faith in him.

Blanc joined Montpellier as a 15-year-old after Monaco rejected him on account of his slight figure. He grew 10 centimetres at Montpellier, made his senior debut and helped the club gain promotion to Ligue 1. He grew into a charismatic, graceful, goalscoring midfielder – not blessed with searing pace, but an exceptional reader of the game.

It was this ability to read the game that led Mezy to believe he could be better utilised at the heart of the defence. Blanc struggled to accept his new role at first, but it was there that he later earned himself international recognition.

It didn't take him long to realise that he could still score goals while playing at the back. In 1990/91, his first full season after making the switch, he recorded a personal tally of 14 goals in Ligue 1 as Montpellier finished seventh. It turned out to be his parting gift as the following summer he moved to Napoli, who had endured a difficult season following their Scudetto-winning campaign with Diego Maradona.

The Frenchman had a decent season in Naples, helping the side coached by Claudio Ranieri finish fourth, but found Serie A defending to be a different art.

Napoli decided to send him out on loan to Nimes Olympique, before selling him to Saint-Etienne the following season. He then moved to Auxerre, where he won the double, and Barcelona, where he struggled with injuries.

It was with Marseille and the French national team especially – winning the World Cup after a fantastic tournament in 1998 – where this classy, ball-playing defender really grabbed the world's attention.

In 1999 he returned to Serie A with Inter, who wanted a leader for their rearguard. And that's exactly what Blanc was as he proved to be one of the most reliable performers and a near ever-present during two seasons sadly lacking in success.

He weighed in with six goals during his time in Milan, one of which came against Napoli – and it was possibly the 'perfect' goal for a defender of Blanc's ilk to score.

Carrying the ball out of defence, he played a one-two with Clarence Seedorf in midfield before nudging past the onrushing Ferdinando Coppola, running round the other side to collect and slotting into an empty net. That's exactly what he wanted to be: a defender free to attack

Speaking as a successful coach a few years later (four Ligue 1 titles with Bordeaux and PSG), he reiterated the importance of centre-backs honing their technique and goalscoring prowess. Sound advice indeed – from someone who received similarly good advice himself on that evening spent deliberating with Mezy.

Alessandro Bai - MondoFutbol.com
 

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In a few years we can bump this thread to talk about how Eric Dier went from terrible midfielder to one of the best players in the world at centre back.

Would Henry qualify for this? Decent left winger to one of the deadliest strikers.
 

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Salah should be the first mention in the present day collection of players.
 

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Gnabry was always a 'forward' player, so not sure where the talk above is coming from. He was also very highly thought of by Wenger but struggled with injuries and then going on loan to a Tony Pulis managed team was a terrible idea and his 'stock' seemed to drop at that point. Wenger still wanted him to sign a new deal though as he still rated him but refused to sign so that he could move on to get first team football elsewhere, bit like the SAF + young Pogba situation we had, just less publicised.
 

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Interesting to read that Nigel De Jong used to not just be a thugballer. Not to say I didn't rate him, he was an annoyingly decent hatchet man for City!

You could say that Yaya Toure went the other way, from playing a very restricted DM or even CB role at Pep's Barcelona, to playing as an attacking CM for City.
 

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Mike Jon Obi, was meant to be a great attacking talent, then was mainly used as a Makélélé type with Chelsea.
 

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Dion Dublin went from striker to centre back, so did Chris Sutton
 

Invictus

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Claude Makélélé and N'Golo Kanté used to be wide attackers in their younger days...
Makélélé had, in fact, started out his playing career as an industrious if slightly unspectacular winger at French side Nantes. He would find success, winning the French title in 94/95. His form attracted first Marseille and then the highly ambitious Celta Vigo. Makélélé landed the on the wet and windy Galician coast of Spain in 1998 and it would be here at Vigo that we would begin to see the birth of what we now know as the Makélélé role. Manager Victor Fernandez paired the Frenchman alongside Brazilian World Cup winner Mazinho, a player who Makélélé credits with his successful move inside. Mazinho, Makélélé states, was like a coach beside him on the pitch, always instructing him positionally. Their partnership, along with the talents of Russian attacking pair Karpin and Mostovoi made Celta, for a year or two, one of the most exciting sides in Europe.
"When I first went into the senior game I was more of an attaching player to begin with," Kante said in Chelsea's match day programme. "For two or three years I played on the wing, when I went to Boulogne in 2011, I started playing in the middle as a central midfielder. "To be honest, it was only when I was first in the French Ligue 1 that my manager and other people started to say, ‘Okay, N’Golo recovers a lot of balls'. Before that, I didn’t consider it to be my job in the team. N "I don’t think of it like that, it just happens. I didn’t especially discover this quality in myself. When we have to defend, I just try to recover the ball for the team because it’s important, but I always try to go forward when we have the ball." "The coach likes to ask me to keep the balance of the team, to press at the right time and move with my midfield partner, to be strong. When we have the ball, he wants me to try to look forward and find a good solution."
Celta Vigo and the birth of the Makélélé role
I could have been a winger - Chelsea's Kante not always a destructive midfielder

Ruud van Nistelrooy was originally a midfielder...
“We saw him in training,” de Haan recounts to OTB Sports, “I told him, ‘Ruud, I think you’re more of a striker.’ Of course, he tells me, ‘No, no, no, coach, I’m a midfielder. I’ve always played #10, I like playing #10.” Signed from FC Den Bosch for an estimated fee just shy of €400,000, de Haan worked on van Nistelrooy’s reluctance. “I told him to go home and talk to his girlfriend, his Dad, his Mum,” he explains, “anyone he wants to talk to and tomorrow he will come and tell me if he wants to do what I want. He came back to me the next morning. ‘OK, coach, I will be the number 9, but you have to help me.’ That was a very ‘Ruud’ answer.”
Ruud van Nistelrooy worked a lot harder than you think

Pretty remarkable that three of the 20th century's foremost proponents of specific archetypes (holding defensive midfielder, pressing and dispossessing machine, and goal poacher supreme) started out in positions that asked for somewhat dissimilar skill sets, and serendipitously found their true calling. It's not like they were great in one position before the transformation either (like Breitner or Júnior in the past); on the face of it, Makélélé and Kante wouldn't be as impactful and celebrated as wingers with top teams like Madrid or Chelsea — and the same goes for van Nistelrooy as a midfield player.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Claude Makélélé and N'Golo Kanté used to be wide attackers in their younger days...


Celta Vigo and the birth of the Makélélé role
I could have been a winger - Chelsea's Kante not always a destructive midfielder

Ruud van Nistelrooy was originally a midfielder...

Ruud van Nistelrooy worked a lot harder than you think

Pretty remarkable that three of the 20th century's foremost proponents of specific archetypes (holding defensive midfielder, pressing and dispossessing machine, and goal poacher supreme) started out in positions that asked for somewhat dissimilar skill sets, and serendipitously found their true calling. It's not like they were great in one position before the transformation either (like Breitner or Júnior in the past); on the face of it, Makélélé and Kante wouldn't be as impactful and celebrated as wingers with top teams like Madrid or Chelsea — and the same goes for van Nistelrooy as a midfield player.
Great stories right.. The RvN and Kante stories really show what influence a coach can have an player development..
 

tentan

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Messi?

Maybe or maybe not. Started as a winger then pretty much invented the false 9 kinda role and roamed all around the pitch.
 

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Fernandinho used to be an attacking midfielder at Shakhtar Donetsk. When he went to City, he was moulded into a ball winning midfielder. It's the same transformation Fred is making now.
 

SAFMUTD

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Juanfran, he was an average/poor winger before Someone arrived at Atletico. He end up being a solid right back and a fundamental part of that Atletico which was the best defense in Europe at the time.

Something impressive is that he made this position change when he was 26, so mid career.
 

MrEleson

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Salah should be the first mention in the present day collection of players.
Why? His skillset is almost the same, he just learned how to finish.

Messi?

Maybe or maybe not. Started as a winger then pretty much invented the false 9 kinda role and roamed all around the pitch.
Again why? His skillset never changed. He just moved more centrally. His playing style was the same as it was out wide (where he eventually moved back to anyway).
 

Red the Bear

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Buffon started as a midfielder before changing to a gk because he liked Cameron nt goalkeeper performance in wc1994 getting a promotion to be the first goalkeeper of the youth team

He must have not been too bad either as he had offers from bolongia and ac milan and parma was renowned for developing young talents at the time so them taking him in as midfield player says a lot

Particularly strange as well because you'd never guess from watching him play that he was once a mid player its not like he's good player with his feet the way ederson is

He had impeccable positioning so maybe thats related ?

Anyhow thats incredible
 
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BrilliantOrange

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Why? His skillset is almost the same, he just learned how to finish.


Again why? His skillset never changed. He just moved more centrally. His playing style was the same as it was out wide (where he eventually moved back to anyway).
I agree.. a position change isnt necessarilly a player transformation.. Sometimes its just pretty much te same player doing the same stuff from a different role within the team.. I agree on both examples you quote.

Juanfran, he was an average/poor winger before Someone arrived at Atletico. He end up being a solid right back and a fundamental part of that Atletico which was the best defense in Europe at the time.

Something impressive is that he made this position change when he was 26, so mid career.
Hmm isnt this another example of such a player? Similar to the Valencia example I use in the opening post? Pretty much the same strengths and skillset, but used from another part of the pitch which perhaps suited him better.. But pretty much the same player..?
 

SAFMUTD

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Hmm isnt this another example of such a player? Similar to the Valencia example I use in the opening post? Pretty much the same strengths and skillset, but used from another part of the pitch which perhaps suited him better.. But pretty much the same player..?
If you saw Juanfran before Simeone you'd know it's not a case like you mention. It's like saying Rashford ended up as a right back without changing his game.

Juanfran was a winger and second striker, nothing close to a right back.
 

Demyanenko_square_jaw

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Fernandinho used to be an attacking midfielder at Shakhtar Donetsk. When he went to City, he was moulded into a ball winning midfielder. It's the same transformation Fred is making now.
He was defiinitely more attacking, but i'd say he was more the box to box engine of Shakhtar. He played the Roy Keane role for them, while Jadson, Willian and later on, Mhkitaryan and sometimes Douglas Costa/Ilsinho (usually wingers) were the more attacking midfielders/10's. At City he had to adapt into a supporting, holding figure for Yaya Toure's runs.
 

BrilliantOrange

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If you saw Juanfran before Simeone you'd know it's not a case like you mention. It's like saying Rashford ended up as a right back without changing his game.

Juanfran was a winger and second striker, nothing close to a right back.
Fair, there was indeed a question mark at the end of my sentence as I dont remember Juanfran pre Simeone.
 

edcunited1878

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Ronaldo wasn't that big of a transformation IMO because it was a true evolution of a wide player who then had an interchangeable role, then central role once his physical qualities lessened. But his heading abilities and jump was superior no matter position. His instincts near goal is a gift that improved every season he inched towards the middle. Just a top player reaching their peak through hard work and dedication because he wasn't as naturally gifted.

A player who transformed before (our) my eyes was easily Scholes, but also Michael Carrick. A player who was an advanced CM/CAM/SS, but then was positioned centrally at a lower level every season until he was a great holding/sitting central metronome, usually as part of a central midfield two and with only two CBs behind him.

Never in a 100 years did you think this transfer from Spurs would seriously emulate Scholesy, not including Scholesy's scoring abilities, heading skills, or long range sat-nav pings. Carras was an elegant and methodical deep lying playmaker who truly transformed himself throughout the prime of his career.
 

Bebestation

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Maybe it didn't happen in our eyes but TAA going from a CDM to RB has been great under Klopp..

The One we did see in front of our eyes and is the opposite is

Kimmich - going from a RB to CDM.

Likewise Fabinho RB to CDM.
 

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Maybe or maybe not. Started as a winger then pretty much invented the false 9 kinda role and roamed all around the pitch.
He did not pretty much invent the False 9 role, though — he showcased the essential characteristics for it as a wide attacker in the first team (which enticed Guardiola), but the strategy/principle itself is ancient (by footballing standards) and dates back to Juan Peregrino Anselmo for the Uruguayan national team (as a change of pace from Héctor Castro, the real/conventional 9); and Messi was really standing on the shoulders of giants like Sindelar (the first superstar False 9 with the Austrian Wunderteam), Pedernera (with River Plate's innovative La Máquina in the 1940s), Hidegkuti (would drop into midfield to create room for Puskás/Kocsis for the swashbuckling Golden Team), Di Stéfano (the quintessential total-footballer from forward positions), Cruyff (orchestrated Ajax and the Netherlands in a manner that is unmatched to this day), and so forth.

Furthermore, in Guardiola's playing days with the Dream Team, his manager would often deploy Laudrup as a False 9...
Laudrup Orientation

After a lack of success in his first few seasons at Barcelona, Cruyff sought to strengthen the team and a means of doing this was in the transfer market. He added exceptionally talented players such as Ronald Koeman, Hristo Stoichkov and Michael Laudrup. The latter became an important player for the team and featured in many roles as his individual excellent gave him the capacity to contribute from many areas. In his start in Catalonia, he most often played behind the striker, either as a 10 in the centre or on the left wing however he gradually moved towards a ‘false 9’ position at the top of the shape. This was the role he took on for the European Cup final as in the press he was in the first line whilst in possession of the ball he dropped frequently towards the midfield. This was most commonly done towards the left half-space, where he benefited from the room created by the movements of Juan Carlos whilst Stoichkov could balance by moving into the vacated space left at the top of the shape.
1992 European Cup final: Barcelona – Sampdoria 1:0

By all accounts, Guardiola realized Messi's potential and drew heavy inspiration from his own playing days, Cruyff's profound influence on him as a player and Barcelona as an institution, and maybe Totti's recent (at the time) success as a False 9 for Roma under Spalletti.
 

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Ashley Young: skilful but flaky winger. Frequently injured, and took forever to play himself back into form following his return to fitness.

Enter LvG, and he immediately transformed into a resilient and versatile workhorse with a phenomenal fitness record, which he’s retained ever since.

Weird.
 

He'sRaldo

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Lukasz Piszczek - (mediocre?) striker to top class attacking right back.

Georginio Wijnaldum - Very productive attacking mid to extremely safe and risk averse defensive mid.
 

Gio

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This thread is littered with examples and there are loads more who fancied themselves as a number 10 or winger. And that is indulged while they are the best player in the youth team or the star in a weaker league. But in order to move up the levels, many attacking midfielders, central or out wide, have to realise their limitations and move into deeper roles. That transformation typically takes place either in the youth team on the fringes of the first team, or when moving from a weaker club or league to one of the big boys. Those who are not willing or smart enough to adapt tend to stay where they are or drop out of the game. Those who do adapt can forge long careers at the top.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Ronaldo wasn't that big of a transformation IMO because it was a true evolution of a wide player who then had an interchangeable role, then central role once his physical qualities lessened. But his heading abilities and jump was superior no matter position. His instincts near goal is a gift that improved every season he inched towards the middle. Just a top player reaching their peak through hard work and dedication because he wasn't as naturally gifted.

A player who transformed before (our) my eyes was easily Scholes, but also Michael Carrick. A player who was an advanced CM/CAM/SS, but then was positioned centrally at a lower level every season until he was a great holding/sitting central metronome, usually as part of a central midfield two and with only two CBs behind him.

Never in a 100 years did you think this transfer from Spurs would seriously emulate Scholesy, not including Scholesy's scoring abilities, heading skills, or long range sat-nav pings. Carras was an elegant and methodical deep lying playmaker who truly transformed himself throughout the prime of his career.
Don't really agree. Ofcourse there is an extent in which he just got a lot better in what he already did and his goal instincts improved over the years.. But one of the key factors for me where he really changed into another player is that in his early years he was always getting the ball, wanting it in his feet, create something by passing opponnents, dribbles, etc. In later years he really became an off-the-ball player, making runts wihout the ball in front of the goal, staying up top during build up of play, lurking on the right place for tap ins..
 

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I have often heard of DeSailly playing in midfield but was his change to defense a big transformation? Or was already a defensive mid that later dropped into defense?
 

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Schweinsteiger, Jesus Navas, Maldini, Bale
 
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