choccy77
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- Jul 8, 2008
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It's all David Moyes fault.
Well Ole bought Maguire for 80m and AWB for 50, together with Donny for around 35.Which previous regime though? Ole's? Jose's? LvG's? Moyes?
All of them fixed some things but brought new damages to the club in different ways.
Jose and LvG's buys were just as terrible though. It all started with Moyes spending 30 million on bloody Fellaini.Well Ole bought Maguire for 80m and AWB for 50, together with Donny for around 35.
I can't help but think a manager who knows the football landscape better is capable of spending 150m+ better, and that would have put is in a much better place alone.
Of course, but I think this "cultural reset" started with the wrong guy after Jose.Jose and LvG's buys were just as terrible though. It all started with Moyes spending 30 million on bloody Fellaini.
Sure but we've been trying to reset culturally since Moyes was sacked. And each manager has failed.Of course, but I think this "cultural reset" started with the wrong guy after Jose.
Dont think Jose was any sort of cultural reset to be fair. It was just a panic move.Sure but we've been trying to reset culturally since Moyes was sacked. And each manager has failed.
Ole was bad, but he was but one in a line of bad regimes. To blame him alone is just recency bias.
Is it any worse than the bad seasons last 8 years though? 7th under Moyes, 6th under LvG, 6th under Jose...Dont think Jose was any sort of cultural reset to be fair. It was just a panic move.
The team has changed a lot since Jose left. Ole bought in a lot of these players and fostered a vibes feel which was detrimental to whoevers next. There is a decay factor here, and Oles feck up is most heavily weighted toward our current state.
I am giving Rangnik a lot more than 5 games before I bucket him with the rest. Especially considering how shit Ole was in his coaching and his transfers to lumber the next guy with a shower of lazy shites who are now too expensive to shift.Is it any worse than the bad seasons last 8 years though? 7th under Moyes, 6th under LvG, 6th under Jose...
Its just rinse and repeat once every few years, regardless of manager
Sure, I'm not talking about Rangnick in particular but for me Ole has just been as bad as the rest before him. No better or worse really.I am giving Rangnik a lot more than 5 games before I bucket him with the rest. Especially considering how shit Ole was in his coaching and his transfers to lumber the next guy with a shower of lazy shites who are now too expensive to shift.
Ole has been worse. He achieved no trophies and fostered zero winning mentality into the team. Jose became his own enemy during his time here but he at least instilled some stubbornness and defensive foundation into the squad to get him a spot of silverware.Sure, I'm not talking about Rangnick in particular but for me Ole has just been as bad as the rest before him. No better or worse really.
A lot of the lazy shites having been shifting hands for years. Pogba, Martial, Lingard, nice guy Mata even.. And yes you can also add Maguire and AWB to that list.
The previous regimes, including Ole's, have fixed nothing.
The point is if the previous two were any good at their jobs Ole as United manager would never have been a reality in the first place.Ole has been worse. He achieved no trophies and fostered zero winning mentality into the team. Jose became his own enemy during his time here but he at least instilled some stubbornness and defensive foundation into the squad to get him a spot of silverware.
Ole is comfortably our worst manager along with Moyes.
Mourinho wanted rid of the likes of pogba and martial when we still could have got a decent deal for both of them, where as ole has put us in a position where pogba walks on a free now and we will be luck to get 30 million for martial.....Ole has been worse. He achieved no trophies and fostered zero winning mentality into the team. Jose became his own enemy during his time here but he at least instilled some stubbornness and defensive foundation into the squad to get him a spot of silverware.
Ole is comfortably our worst manager along with Moyes.
Mourinho signed pogba. He also signed Miki who lasted a few months before the league broke him, and then swapped him for the great Sanchez.Mourinho wanted rid of the likes of pogba and martial when we still could have got a decent deal for both of them, where as ole has put us in a position where pogba walks on a free now and we will be luck to get 30 million for martial.....
As I said, the run up to Ole is inconsequential. My point is about the current predicament Rangnick finds himself in, and a large part of this is because his pre-decessor fostered zero winning mentality, next to no coaching and terribly misallocated the monetary resources available to him.The point is if the previous two were any good at their jobs Ole as United manager would never have been a reality in the first place.
He was just one in a long line of bad previous regimes, bringing in their own lazy players and their own faulty methods.
Ok sure, can't argue against that. It is recency bias but you are only ever as good as your current predicament I guess.As I said, the run up to Ole is inconsequential. My point is about the current predicament Rangnick finds himself in, and a large part of this is because his pre-decessor fostered zero winning mentality, next to no coaching and terribly misallocated the monetary resources available to him.
Yes there was bad managers before Ole, but their teams and their methods have been wiped regardless so it's not relevant. What we have is Ole's methods and Ole's players attitude in a Rangnick squad. He's left lumbered from a shit regime before him that he now needs to solve sooner rather than later.
It's not recency bias. You need to apply a decay factor (i.e. the extent of the effect something from previous regimes has on the current one). Ole's regime has the bigggest impact on Rangnick - not someone like LVG.Ok sure, can't argue against that. It is recency bias but you are only ever as good as your current predicament I guess.
Yeah of course it has the most impact, he was the most recent manager! Just like Jose's failures had the biggest impact on Ole, and LvG's failures had the biggest impact on Jose. But the truth is it's been decaying for 8 years.It's not recency bias. You need to apply a decay factor (i.e. the extent of the effect something from previous regimes has on the current one). Ole's regime has the bigggest impact on Rangnick - not someone like LVG.
If it were just 3 years wasted, that would be one thing, but it’s so much more than that.Three years wasted.
Both of those guys are vastly more experienced in the PL and relegation battles though, Solskjaer wasn't.Cardiff were 17th, one point above the relegation zone when Solskjaer was appointed. Sure, they were in a relegation battle but they were no certainties to be relegated. The likes of Sam Allardyce or Tony Pulis would have fancied themselves to keep Cardiff up.
AWB hasn't set the world alight but let's not compare him to fecking Darmian. We could have played a traffic cone at RB and it would have been an improvement on Darmian most games.No proper clearout just adds more salt to the damage and the next managers will most likely share the same fate.
First it was ruthless Jose who had basis in winning trophies, but did f*ck all to create space for something new. Hiring him was antithesis for building long term. He didin't even correct most mistakes done by LvG.
Then came Ole sold Rom & Alexis, but Maguire & Bissaka were squezzed in for huge amounts. He was on the rise, but even moment of being too nice cost him a job. Can't blame everything on him, but he had incredible chance of breaking the wheel of underperforming, overrated players flooding the club.
Ralf came and if he thinks he'll survive here to summer 2022 just by making honest interviews he might be in for rude awakening. One year is not enough, but perhaps it's enough to clear the dressing room just before players will throw him under the bus... and perhaps then new manager will have less work in repairing things.
Klopp cleared his dressing room before adding elements. In first years above 20 players left which created financial space for bringing the right elements. United seem to do things in totally wrong order.
What we did is swapped Darmian for Bissaka then go through same motions, results and similar sacking manner.
...but It's exactly what we did. We swapped Darmian for Bissaka and told ourselves we'll be challenging for titles soon enough.AWB hasn't set the world alight but let's not compare him to fecking Darmian. We could have played a traffic cone at RB and it would have been an improvement on Darmian most games.
are we surprised?The fans who backed ole are the ones piling on rangnick after a month of being in charge.
They are a disgrace.
Did anyone really think we would be challenging for the title off the back of buying Wan Bissaka? There were tentative hopes of a title challenge this season after signing Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo but I don't remember similar chatter back in 2019 after signing a 20 year old fullback from Palace....but It's exactly what we did. We swapped Darmian for Bissaka and told ourselves we'll be challenging for titles soon enough.
Darmian lifting trophy with Jose is something from Twilight Zone episode but it happened, when I look how Bissaka tries to control the ball it's like watching X-Files on LSD. Even Darmian being a traffic cone could control the ball if it by some chance rolled to his feet.
Name and shame the posters turning on Rangnick I say.The fans who backed ole are the ones piling on rangnick after a month of being in charge.
They are a disgrace.
We tried to loan out/sell some of those players you've mentioned there.Ole was extremely wasteful with the squad and creating a worse scenario of deadwood/unhappy players than previous managers, he kept hold of mata for too long despite not using him, same with beek, same with matic, same with henderson, same with bailly, same with telles, same with dalot, same with lingard, same with diallo and the same with martial this season, that is a easily 100 million in wasted transfer money and a huge waste of salary bill.
AWB was a very questionable signing all those years ago. For a while he beat expectations bu it didn't take long for all the concerns about his technical limitations to materialize. We had just freshly offloaded Lukaku (right move) and the first thing we did was sign his junior brother at right back.city spend 60m on a left back who never played and is now up for rape and all our problems are because we spent 50m on awb a few years ago. this is big boy football, you have to spend money and it won't always work, it can't be some kind of wierd excuse for the next 10 years
These are as big of a problem now as they have been since SAF.I'd say previous regimes-plural. There's been something so underwhelming about us now for so long and people were grasping onto to the 'progress' of top 4 finishes in the same way we looked at Jose's first two seasons as respectable but in both instances there were massive problems that never looked like being addressed: a complete lack of control/technique in the midfield, dodgy fullbacks that you can never really trust, a weird and backward mentality around a semi-mythical "United way/United DNA" among the club and its fan base and a sort of "what would Sir Alex do" as a basis of judgement. It's all just ...really messed up. Ole was a big contributor to this but let's not pretend the issues haven't been there for a decade or so.
Agree with all of this!If it were just 3 years wasted, that would be one thing, but it’s so much more than that.
It’s subpar coaching in a phase of development that certain players desperately needed
It’s wasting 130 million on two players that will never be good enough for the club
It’s lowering standards and expectations around the whole club, giving jobs to underqualified mates and insisting with players that were never going to be good enough.
The damage is far greater than just wasting 3 years unfortunately. He has set us back a lot more than that and it should never have been allowed to happen.