In context, if you take the next line, and also what he said as a whole, I think his point was that players aren't working enough."We have unbelievable quality!"
So the players aren't the problem.
Ok, where do we have unbelievable quality?
Who from our team walks into the Chelsea, City or Liverpool first team?
I get that. I certainly wouldn't blame RR for our long term issues. However, what I'm saying is, we should be seeing something different in our game, which I just don't see at the moment. For example, Shaw mentioned passing options. To me, this is down to how the manager sets up his team, rather than the ability of the player.I don't think we can blame the new manager for long term issues. Yes it's his job to fix it but just because it's not fixed yet could be down to many things, Michael Gray, who is a bit of an idiot sometimes said you can't coach players who aren't up for being coached or something along those lines.
There are issues regarding movement and intensity that have been consistent under at least 3 managers.
Appropriately enough, the answer to that question is Luke Shaw. The Luke Shaw we saw last season anyway. If anyone in our squad has earned the right to chew the rest of them out for low standards it’s him. Even though his own form has been crap for most of this season."We have unbelievable quality!"
So the players aren't the problem.
Ok, where do we have unbelievable quality?
Who from our team walks into the Chelsea, City or Liverpool first team?
Depend on the CLub. Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo, DDG, Shaw, and Bruno should be at least on par with (some of) what they have."We have unbelievable quality!"
So the players aren't the problem.
Ok, where do we have unbelievable quality?
Who from our team walks into the Chelsea, City or Liverpool first team?
Looks like we’re both a little lost with each other at this point, last post directed at you. . .Have no idea what you’re on about now. Did you mean to quote my same post twice and give two different replies? (neither of which made much sense)
After this you piped up to a whole other post telling me I should cross my fingers as Shaw doesn’t have bad games.We agree. ‘woeful long before tonight’.
We disagree.
How from that post do you get that I want him to start his interview with “First of all, I need to talk about how I played under the former manager…”, it’s a strange leap.
My point is [as you clearly don’t get it]. . .
Shaw is correct the team lacked a lot tonight but he’s lacked most things all season, I just find it a little distasteful when players dig out the ‘team’ because they were least ‘shit’ but then stay quiet after their worst performances.
Shaw is the wrong man saying the right thing, unfortunately that goes for most of this squad. I’m just tired of hearing the same old thing every few weeks from that games least ‘shit’ performer.
Its actually baffling how we are in this situation.Yup this is it, that midfield has got us where we are.
Sometimes decent, most the time not. It’s a shame Pogba is such a tosser because when he is on form he changes our midfield completely
The goddamn problem is creating a problem itself in the first place then telling yourself you did your best when qualified for CL from 4th place after years of talking about the need of Manchester United to challenge for title.Why are you not all together though? What is the problem?
LvG too strict with his philosophy? Problem is gone.
Mourinho throwing players under a bus? Problem is gone.
Ole not knowing how to coach? Problem is gone.
Just what is the goddamn problem?
You think those 6 players would displace their counterparts in the current City side?Depend on the CLub. Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo, DDG, Shaw, and Bruno should be at least on par with (some of) what they have.
Heh. Good one. Coming almost immediately after a post where you got your panties into a bunch about me misrepresenting you. Onto ignore you go.Looks like we’re both a little lost with each other at this point, last post directed at you. . .
After this you piped up to a whole other post telling me I should cross my fingers as Shaw doesn’t have bad games.
As for the double quote, I thought I’d accidentally deleted the longer retorte but misinterpretation & avoiding subjects at hand are your specialty.
I’m still unsure why you were so upset to begin with, do you disagree with the above reply I made as you’ve ignored it for another tangent. ‘Can’t we all just get along’.
I get that. I certainly wouldn't blame RR for our long term issues. However, what I'm saying is, we should be seeing something different in our game, which I just don't see at the moment. For example, Shaw mentioned passing options. To me, this is down to how the manager sets up his team, rather than the ability of the player.
We play a 442, which isn't a formation that creates many passing options at the best of times.
Tonight, in the first half, Matic dropped into the backline to create a 5v3, this left McTominay completely exposed, as he had no one to link with. Sancho and Greenwood, for the most of it, stayed wide and Ronaldo and Cavani up top. It's something you'd see under Sir Alex in the 90's.
Football has moved on since that, and if we're going to control a game 1) we need ball playing midfielders 2) you need more than one midfield in the centre of the park.
At the moment, we're neither dominant on or off the ball. Personally, I don't think a 442 is the right choice, but I guess system is not the main problem.
I took the last bit, about the manager having more ideas, as a bit of a get out of jail free for these "unbelievable" players that we have.In context, if you take the next line, and also what he said as a whole, I think his point was that players aren't working enough.
I think in terms of ability and potential and if they were playing with confidence then we have a comparable squad to anyone. On form and for the foreseeable, no way.You think those 6 players would displace their counterparts in the current City side?
I took it as an attempt to avoid the nihilism his body language and tone of voice showed.I took the last bit, about the manager having more ideas, as a bit of a get out of jail free for these "unbelievable" players that we have.
i.e "it's the manager!"
And, just to be clear, I'm far from convinced about the 6 month manager either.
I hate this argument. Both we and City have been in for so many of the same players, and more often than not we have convinced those players to sign for us.You think those 6 players would displace their counterparts in the current City side?
So, in some imaginary world we've never seen they'd walk into those teams.I think in terms of ability and potential and if they were playing with confidence then we have a comparable squad to anyone. On form and for the foreseeable, no way.
Not all 6 of them at once. That's why i said, depend on the Club. Ronaldo, Sanco, Shaw or Varane are at least on par with what City has. I think Klopp would have a place for Bruno and Varane. Chelsea might use DDG, Ronaldo, Shaw, Varane, and Bruno.You think those 6 players would displace their counterparts in the current City side?
Agreed. Ironically, Shaw is part of the problem this season. He looks so lethargic on and off the ball. I’m delighted and surprised when I see him get out to the winger and cut out the cross, it seems like a huge effort for him.I don't think we can blame the new manager for long term issues. Yes it's his job to fix it but just because it's not fixed yet could be down to many things, Michael Gray, who is a bit of an idiot sometimes said you can't coach players who aren't up for being coached or something along those lines.
There are issues regarding movement and intensity that have been consistent under at least 3 managers.
The echo chamber of Pogue must be deafening. Glad the thread will finally get back to the topic at hand, apologies for the sidebar all.Heh. Good one. Coming almost immediately after a post where you got your panties into a bunch about me misrepresenting you. Onto ignore you go.
Our recruitment/squad building has scuppered this by having so many ‘negative’ footballers in the squad, by that I mean our players are ‘good’ at things off the ball but who lack composure & confidence on it. We need a total squad rebuild.The passing options when we are in possession almost everywhere on the pitch compared to almost everyone in the top half has been poor for a long time now, and has to be visible to both the players and managers. It's a fundamental, that takes only will and very basic movement, so the fact it's proving so difficult to fix is really really worrying.
Four times actually. We could hire four more bad managers and that would make eight. Still doesn’t mean we haven’t the bones of a decent squad whose diabolical form this season is not a good representation of their quality. They finished second last season, after all. Under a manager who is very obviously a tier below the best around (at least).So, in some imagery world we've never seen they'd walk into those teams.
Which players walk into those teams today based on performance and attitude? Because we've already been down the route of the manager being the issue, twice now.
On today's performance, none obviously. We are muck, individually and collectively.So, in some imaginary world we've never seen they'd walk into those teams.
Which players walk into those teams today based on performance and attitude? Because we've already been down the route of the manager being the issue, twice now.
Yeah, our players are obviously not worse than Wolves', Villa's or YB Bern's. We're terribly underperformingFour times actually. We could hire four more bad managers and that would make eight. Still doesn’t mean we haven’t the bones of a decent squad whose diabolical form this season is not a good representation of their quality. They finished second last season, after all. Under a manager who is very obviously a tier below the best around (at least).
I think it’s a mixture of a few things. There’s obviously turbulence going on behind the scenes. Being gutted from losing the euros and also being wrecked from so many games. Full backs are the ones covering the most ground in the modern game. Add in that he seems to have lost faith in the project. He’s on massive money and is probably embarrassed by his performances. It’s a vicious circle. He’s a quality player though if he can get back to last seasons level. That was eliteAgreed. Ironically, Shaw is part of the problem this season. He looks so lethargic on and off the ball. I’m delighted and surprised when I see him get out to the winger and cut out the cross, it seems like a huge effort for him.
So we have a few who 'might' get in, but with the other 7,8,9 players it's no debate. That shows where we're at.Not all 6 of them at once. That's why i said, depend on the Club. Ronaldo, Sanco, Shaw or Varane might be at least on par with what City has. I think Klopp would have a place for Bruno and Varane. Chelsea might use DDG, Ronaldo, Shaw, Varane, and Bruno.
He literally said you can’t put it on the new manager. But somehow you take something else to then be some cryptic blaming the manager? That’s just making stuff up as you see fit.I took the last bit, about the manager having more ideas, as a bit of a get out of jail free for these "unbelievable" players that we have.
i.e "it's the manager!"
And, just to be clear, I'm far from convinced about the 6 month manager either.
Finish second - Imagine these players under a revolutionary manager like Kloop or Tuchel... we should hire their mentor, Rangrick.Four times actually. We could hire four more bad managers and that would make eight. Still doesn’t mean we haven’t the bones of a decent squad whose diabolical form this season is not a good representation of their quality. They finished second last season, after all. Under a manager who is very obviously a tier below the best around (at least).
He kinda was but seriously, when we conceded we didn't even try. Wolves were on almost constant attack to 90th minute even after scoring. Yes, the so called time wasting Wolverhampton got us cornered for entire match.Seen it now, Shaw looks and sounds shattered
I thought that was a great interview, fairly empathetic, evident contrition on Shaw's face, said nothing controversial.Tweet
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Agree.I think when Bruno was remonstrating with the fans saying it’s not Oles fault, it’s the players… it’s pretty clear from then that the dressing room is divided. The ronaldo signing doesn’t really seem to have come off from a morale or a feel good standpoint. It also seems to me that Bruno alluded to the fact that too many players aren’t or weren’t working hard enough or delivering the goods. Too many players coasting and knowing their next contract/club is going to be worse so they won’t rock the boat in the meantime.
What we need to do is sign players with a point to prove that are coming into their prime. Like Bruno. Stop signing Ronaldo and Sanchez types. Don’t put the responsibility of carrying the club on the shoulders of a few academy lads until they’ve shown they can be trusted to win stuff. Liverpool have been successful because they kept adding hungry players who have a point to prove. City sign a very specific type of player too. They don’t often go for your 19 year old wonderkid to come in and carry the team. They are looking at players right on the cusp of their prime and they mix it up very well. Their academy is absolutely stacked and only Foden is getting through. They are also very quick to cut players who aren’t going to make it. Look at the standard of player they’ve sold or lost over the last few years? Sancho, Sane Torres etc would all be starters here and it’s business as usual for them. We are finally going to lose Martial. That’s the only player you could say could still go up a few gears again. We hang on to useless players like Mata and Matic for far too long and it breeds complacency. The standard here is too low which is crazy considering what we are spending. You can see the players are embarrassed by each other’s performances at this stage. They aren’t working for each other and it’s a major pity.
You're, quite embarrassingly, missing the point that I'm saying this is all on the players pal.He literally said you can’t put it on the new manager. But somehow you take something else to then be some cryptic blaming the manager? That’s just making stuff up as you see fit.
He said they have a long training week, which they’ve barely had yet, so the manager has more time to implement ideas to fix it, which he hasn’t had yet. Not even close to “it’s the manager” and combined with him specifically stating it’s not the manager, then yea clearly not blaming the manager.
The distinction you're making is entirely fictional. His exact words were:No need to be silly. Of course I know that. However, the fact that he said ''we are not all together'' as opposed to we were not, suggests this is something long term, which we all know it has been, otherwise Ole would still be the manager.
Therefore, my question is, who is it in the dressing room that is causing unrest?
The video's been posted a few times already:Maybe tonight we struggled. We didn't feel, or I didn't feel when we was on the pitch that we were all there together, you know.
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Yeah but so was Shaw is his point?You're, quite embarrassingly, missing the point that I'm saying this is all on the players pal.
Agreed. Not based on their United performance this season.So we have a few who 'might' get in, but with the other 7,8,9 players it's no debate. That shows where we're at.
We're at a point where even Arsenal would probably only take 3 or 4 of our starters over theirs.
I think that's a pretty standard build up pattern even in modern football. The players are effectively staggered to allow quick progression from back to front with the 3 attackers having some freedom to make quick runs deep to get away from their marker and provide an overload while building up.I get that. I certainly wouldn't blame RR for our long term issues. However, what I'm saying is, we should be seeing something different in our game, which I just don't see at the moment. For example, Shaw mentioned passing options. To me, this is down to how the manager sets up his team, rather than the ability of the player.
We play a 442, which isn't a formation that creates many passing options at the best of times.
Tonight, in the first half, Matic dropped into the backline to create a 5v3, this left McTominay completely exposed, as he had no one to link with. Sancho and Greenwood, for the most of it, stayed wide and Ronaldo and Cavani up top. It's something you'd see under Sir Alex in the 90's.
Football has moved on since that, and if we're going to control a game 1) we need ball playing midfielders 2) you need more than one midfield in the centre of the park.
At the moment, we're neither dominant on or off the ball. Personally, I don't think a 442 is the right choice, but I guess system is not the main problem.
Yeah, I'm not buying it. Shaw, who I rate, has been dogshit most of the season, reckons we have unbelievable players (name them?), and that we need new ideas from their, what ? third manager now?Yeah but so was Shaw is his point?
That's not what Shaw was saying though? He was saying they didn't show enough effort or movement and talent wasn't enough and also explicitly said it wasn't on the manger but with a week of training ahead maybe he'd have some ideas as to how to fix it.Yeah, I'm not buying it. Shaw, who I rate, has been dogshit most of the season, reckons we have unbelievable players (name them?), and that we need new ideas from their, what ? third manager now?
Do they need someone to provide higher level coaching on how to play a decent pass?
Fat sows who've grown way too comfortable, and then had a manger who they know whose gone in 6 months anyway thrust on them, absolutely no surprise to me they're playing like dog shit.
