[DutchCruijff]

Oh so it was so PRIVATE that you know about it?

And the players we sign don't have obscene valuations? Also since when does valuations mean that is the price? Dortmund said Sancho is £120m but we got him for £70m.

Can you show me where West Ham put a offer ?

So you believe everything Ole said?

So did Chelsea price Hazard out at £140m with 1 year left? If a club wants a player, they go get him, simple as.

Again, is that Manutd's fault that no other club wanted Lingard? clearly other clubs don't rate him, when you have clubs spending £25m on Dan James, Newcastle bough Willock for £25m, West Ham spent £33m on Vlasic. So dont tell me he was priced out, its was simple, no one rated him.

Oh yes the other players, who have done what exactly in a United shirt to deserve game time? Are you saying DDG who has kept us in games should be dropped or Henderson should play CB?

Yes, because Moyes mentioned it, after the window closed, when asked as to why he didn't go for Lingard. It was a private convo. That's why all the nonsense about what one says to the press is irrelevant.

God knows what the rest of your post is conveying, you're comparing Hazard, one of the world's best players at the time, being bought by Real Madrid to Lingard being snapped up by West Ham and Newcastle?

Mamma mia.

None of those players you mentioned had 9 months left on their contract/could sign a pre-contract in 3 months time.

The other players who were promised game time, just like Lingard, and were frozen out. Doesn't matter whether they deserved it, matter of whether they were promised game time like Ole did with Lingard.

 

[romufc]

Yes, because Moyes mentioned it, after the window closed, when asked as to why he didn't go for Lingard. It was a private convo. That's why all the nonsense about what one says to the press is irrelevant.

God knows what the rest of your post is conveying, you're comparing Hazard, one of the world's best players at the time, being bought by Real Madrid to Lingard being snapped up by West Ham and Newcastle?

Mamma mia.

None of those players you mentioned had 9 months left on their contract/could sign a pre-contract in 3 months time.

The other players who were promised game time, just like Lingard, and were frozen out. Doesn't matter whether they deserved it, matter of whether they were promised game time like Ole did with Lingard.

Oh right, so because Moyes said so, he must be right? Believe everything a manager says in the press?

Yeah and that is why he went for £140m, United didn't ask for £100m they asked for £30m.

Him having 1 year left makes no difference to United, if you want a player pay or wait till next summer, simple as.

Okay, you say he could sign a pre contract in 3 months time, has he? Window closed in August, its January, so 5 months on, has he signed a pre contract?

Secondly, if you read the reports, this has come out under Ralf, so did Ralf promise Lingard game time too? why is he acting up now?

 

[stevoc]

Totally agree with that.

But like I say, I very much doubt he promised Mata gametime but still handed him a new contract.

For whatever reason it seemed to me, after an initial stripping down of the squad, Ole suddenly wanted three options in every position.

I doubt any game time was promised or expected. The Mata extension was a weird one no doubt, with all renewals the club are as much a part of the decision as the manger. On that one I'm going to say it was 80% club as they have some plans for him post playing it seems.

Ole's initial stripping down of the squad was probably an effort to get rid of deadwood that had loitered around for years more than any desire to have a small squad.

 

[stevoc]

He didn't.

Moyes approached Ole and Ole turned Moyes down saying he wanted to keep JLingz on.

Of course he did, that's how you play the game when you want to sell a player for X but the interested club only want to pay Y.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Of course he did, that's how you play the game when you want to sell a player for X but the interested club only want to pay Y.

It clearly doesn't work for us as we struggle to sell anyone, so perhaps it's time to accept that strategy is shite and maybe instead respond by saying the player is for sale, let's negotiate.

 

[Ash_G]

I personally think keeping Lingard without him committing to a new contract was a mistake. Even if West Ham were undervaluing him when you add in the wage saving as well and potential intangibles of having another player around who isn't playing and can't be happy about/ taking opps from younger players then then surely you move on. I think in certain circumstances you can keep a player e.g. I get it with Pogba but not with someone like Lingard who was never going to be first choice (and likely would have been behind a number of others anyway).

I think it's different to a Mata where I suspect that one he was happier to be a backup player (useful in COVID context where you could potentially need a bigger squad) and two we/him were looking at his post football life.

 

[stevoc]

It clearly doesn't work for us as we struggle to sell anyone, so perhaps it's time to accept that strategy is shite and maybe instead respond by saying the player is for sale, let's negotiate.

We used to just sell players for whatever we could get for them once it was decided they were no longer in the plans. This happened under Ferguson and got worse under LVG, people on here weren't happy at all about it. Turns out they're not happy when the club tries to reverse that trend and play hard ball either.

 

[Eyepopper]

aren't they at a school? this is a whole lot of nothing

Don't think this was at a school, could be wrong.

Love the glasses lads, what are your prescriptions?

 

[Stacks]

Don't think this was at a school, could be wrong.

Love the glasses lads, what are your prescriptions?

I mean I dont see the problem. They are clearly in a nightclub

 

[Mylock]

I have to laugh with all the speculation in the media that Lingard is one of the troublemakers; if he is, I don't blame him.
What is evident is the club messed him around last summer by not selling him and also by promising him the chance to establish himself in the 1st team.
Lingard had a great six months at west ham but a poor 18 months at United. He should have been moved on. Whoever is responsible for these decisions should be stacked; maybe they are already.

 

[Passitlikescholes]

Moyes is trying to save face because Lingaard rejected a move, so rather than say they were rejected, which potentially impacts other transfers and their "want" to go to west hame, he saved face by saying Ole didn't sell him

Ole was trying to retain value and sell him off at a large enough price to fund a midfielder.

Lingaard knew all along what he was doing, completely deluded about his ability and his hanging for a big contract.

 

[GifLord]

I have to laugh with all the speculation in the media that Lingard is one of the troublemakers; if he is, I don't blame him.
What is evident is the club messed him around last summer by not selling him and also by promising him the chance to establish himself in the 1st team.
Lingard had a great six months at west ham but a poor 18 months at United. He should have been moved on. Whoever is responsible for these decisions should be stacked; maybe they are already.

Are you joking?
If a player wants to leave he can go anytime he wants. Stop making stupid excuses for our stupid players.

 

[Cassidy]

Are you joking?
If a player wants to leave he can go anytime he wants. Stop making stupid excuses for our stupid players.

Likewise if we wanted to sell we could have plenty of times

 

[lex talionis]

As I understand it, it's not that easy to sell a player to a club who doesn't want to leave or doesn't want to join the buying club. We're all going off media reports but the unofficial story is that Lingard didn't want to leave this summer and instead he wanted to run down his contract so that he could walk on a free, whatever financial benefits of that may be to him and his business empire of shit merch.

Good riddance.

 

[DWelbz19]

I mean I dont see the problem. They are clearly in a nightclub

Anything showing a modicum of style or expression in a players clothing off the field seems to be a crime on redcafe. Forum filled with old farts

 

[stevoc]

I have to laugh with all the speculation in the media that Lingard is one of the troublemakers; if he is, I don't blame him.
What is evident is the club messed him around last summer by not selling him and also by promising him the chance to establish himself in the 1st team.
Lingard had a great six months at west ham but a poor 18 months at United. He could have been moved on. Whoever is responsible for these decisions should be stacked; maybe they are already.

Corrected.

He chose to stay.

 

[stevoc]

Likewise if we wanted to sell we could have plenty of times

Not if the player didn't agree to leave.

 

[Mylock]

Are you joking?
If a player wants to leave he can go anytime he wants. Stop making stupid excuses for our stupid players.

I'm not making excuses for our players as I would have got rid of lingard and a dozen more if I had my way. Players can't just leave when they want to, there has to be agreement on all sides if they are still under contract.

 

[Mylock]

Corrected.

He chose to stay.

You are correct. He chose to stay, but the question is why? He was told he would get a chance at becoming a regular. He should have been told it was time to go.

 

[VidaRed]

Don't think this was at a school, could be wrong.

Love the glasses lads, what are your prescriptions?

 

[Member 101269]

Send him to the reserves

 

[stevoc]

You are correct. He chose to stay, but the question is why? He was told he would get a chance at becoming a regular. He should have been told it was time to go.

Are there any quotes from Lingard confirming he was actually told this? Or is everyone still going off Solskjaer's talk of him being important to his plans or whatever to try to keep his price high?

Why would Solskjaer not play him for a year, then loan him out for 6 months, sign Bruno, Diallo, Ronaldo, Cavani, Sancho to add to Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Pogba. But then suddenly decide that Lingard is integral to his plans and convince him that he could break into that forward line.

It makes no sense right? Is it not more plausible that Lingard didn't actually want to join Wet Ham or leave at all because he had his own plans. Which one makes more sense to you?

 

[Stacks]

Anything showing a modicum of style or expression in a players clothing off the field seems to be a crime on redcafe. Forum filled with old farts

tell me about it. old men screaming at the clouds about the "good old days". If they saw the 80s and the perms............

 

[Eyepopper]

Anything showing a modicum of style or expression in a players clothing off the field seems to be a crime on redcafe. Forum filled with old farts

If they could show a modicum of style or expression on the field it wouldn't be an issue.

 

[stevoc]

This is why we are nowhere near competing let alone winning silverware. This is a modern take on the dippers coming out in white suites in the 90's.

These are not players that can compete at the highest level, they are at best good enough for midtable or if they're lucky top 6.

Yeah you'll never win anything if you have players in your squad who like to wear silly clothing.

 

[Mylock]

Are there any quotes from Lingard confirming he was actually told this? Or is everyone still going off Solskjaer's talk of him being crucial to his plans or whatever to try to keep his price high?

Why would Solskjaer not play him for a year, then loan him out for six months, sign Bruno, Diallo, Ronaldo, Cavani, Sancho to add to Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Pogba. But then suddenly decide that Lingard is integral to his plans and convince him to break into that forward line.

It makes no sense suitable? Is it not more plausible that Lingard didn't want to join Wet Ham or leave at all because he had his plans. Which one makes more sense to you?

I haven't any evidence that Ollie told Lingard that he would be an integral part of his plans, but you don't have evidence to say he didn't.
Ollie talked him up at the start of the season and was planning to start him against Leeds, then Jessie got covid which messed that up.
We signed Ronaldo, which changed the whole forward line formation; that was the end of Lingard, in my opinion.
Of course, Lingard has his plans, which looks like he didn't want to sign for west ham and hedge his bets that he would get a chance this season.
The bottom line is he should have been sold as he had his chance and failed to take them.

 

[Pickle85]

Yeah you'll never win anything if you have players in your squad who like to wear silly clothing.

Comparing two excellent players that left everything on the pitch for the side with mediocrity like Lingard is rather disingenuous, don't you think? The reason the ridiculous fashion choices wind people up is because many see it, rightly or wrongly, as being symptomatic of them taking their eye off the ball and focusing more on being icons than football players. If Lingard was performing on the pitch you wouldn't hear the same complaints.

 

[Cassidy]

Not if the player didn't agree to leave.

If we really wanted to we could get rid. We didn't in many cases, in some we even gave out new contracts (Lingard is an example of that too)

 

[clarkydaz]

Yeah you'll never win anything if you have players in your squad who like to wear silly clothing.

look at what they are holding

 

[kouroux]

Comparing two excellent players that left everything on the pitch for the side with mediocrity like Lingard is rather disingenuous, don't you think? The reason the ridiculous fashion choices wind people up is because many see it, rightly or wrongly, as being symptomatic of them taking their eye off the ball and focusing more on being icons than football players. If Lingard was performing on the pitch you wouldn't hear the same complaints.

There is no "rightly" in this discussion tbh

 

[AndySmith1990]

Yeah you'll never win anything if you have players in your squad who like to wear silly clothing.

Guarantee you Rashford and Lingard will never be holding that trophy

 

[Pickle85]

There is no "rightly" in this discussion tbh

I disagree, to an extent. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that certain footballers get ahead of themselves and then take their eye off the ball (no pun intended), focusing on their side hustles or stardom to the detriment of their playing career. While I agree that a player's off the wall fashion choices doesn't automatically indicate that they're not focused I do think that embracing the 'look at me' star culture can certainly lead to a loss of focus.

 

[kouroux]

I disagree, to an extent. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility that certain footballers get ahead of themselves and then take their eye off the ball (no pun intended), focusing on their side hustles or stardom to the detriment of their playing career. While I agree that a player's off the wall fashion choices doesn't automatically indicate that they're not focused I do think that embracing the 'look at me' star culture can certainly lead to a loss of focus.

It's not for us to say that tbh, it's pure crazy speculation in my book. For as many examples of players you're describing, there are counter examples so for me it makes no sense from a fan's perspective to make theories about which outside of the pitch impacts negatively this or that player.
It's looking for reasons to be pissed off at players. Lingard and Co could just as well have a shy lifestyle and still be just as shit on the pitch

 

[Pickle85]

It's not for us to say that tbh, it's pure crazy speculation in my book. For as many examples of players you're describing, there are counter examples so for me it makes no sense from a fan's perspective to make theories about which outside of the pitch impacts negatively this or that player.
It's looking for reasons to be pissed off at players. Lingard and Co could just as well have a shy lifestyle and still be just as shit on the pitch

Yeah, I take your point. For me it also shows a lack of self awareness from them. You'd think that performing badly on the pitch may lead to them keeping a lower profile off it. I agree that the cause and effect is impossible to determine in things like this but the players surely must be aware that stones will be thrown if they're living it large and still performing below par.

 

[stevoc]

Comparing two excellent players that left everything on the pitch for the side with mediocrity like Lingard is rather disingenuous, don't you think? The reason the ridiculous fashion choices wind people up is because many see it, rightly or wrongly, as being symptomatic of them taking their eye off the ball and focusing more on being icons than football players. If Lingard was performing on the pitch you wouldn't hear the same complaints.

It might be if I was comparing them as players. All I'm doing is challenging the ridiculous idea that we aren't winning the league because we have players who like to wear silly clothes in their off time.

look at what they are holding

Yeah which is the point I was trying to make.

Guarantee you Rashford and Lingard will never be holding that trophy

Strange statement for a Manchester United fan to make.

 

[stevoc]

If we really wanted to we could get rid. We didn't in many cases, in some we even gave out new contracts (Lingard is an example of that too)

Well we can't sell a player who doesn't want to leave mate, sadly that's a fact.

 

[stevoc]

I haven't any evidence that Ollie told Lingard that he would be an integral part of his plans, but you don't have evidence to say he didn't.
Ollie talked him up at the start of the season and was planning to start him against Leeds, then Jessie got covid which messed that up.
We signed Ronaldo, which changed the whole forward line formation; that was the end of Lingard, in my opinion.
Of course, Lingard has his plans, which looks like he didn't want to sign for west ham and hedge his bets that he would get a chance this season.
The bottom line is he should have been sold as he had his chance and failed to take them.

Regardless of Ronaldo signing or not mate Lingard still wouldn't have got ahead of the other 7, he would have been fighting it out with James to be the 7th-8th choice in all likelihood.

As stated none of us know what was really said behind the scenes, but for me the idea that Solskjaer convinced him to stay makes no sense.

 

[Cassidy]

Well we can't sell a player who doesn't want to leave mate, sadly that's a fact.

We can let them leave for free thats a fact and we didnt with Lingard, Mata, Bailly list goes on

 

[kouroux]

Yeah, I take your point. For me it also shows a lack of self awareness from them. You'd think that performing badly on the pitch may lead to them keeping a lower profile off it. I agree that the cause and effect is impossible to determine in things like this but the players surely must be aware that stones will be thrown if they're living it large and still performing below par.

I agree wholeheartedly with you here. It's about perception and PR and most fans won't have time for the flashy lifestyles they display online if their game is terrible. It may not be fair but how it is. Players need to adapt and stop being so soft.
I don't give a shit personally but I know many who can get wound up

 

[Pickle85]

I agree wholeheartedly with you here. It's about perception and PR and most fans won't have time for the flashy lifestyles they display online if their game is terrible. It may not be fair but how it is. Players need to adapt and stop being so soft.
I don't give a shit personally but I know many who can get wound up

Agree entirely, though I must confess that I am petty enough to get a little riled by it .