Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[bond19821982]

Are you going to hire some manager from a Russian club? That's all I will ask.

I am not missing any point. You are. As I said the club even didn't think of him as a starting point for a long term project or whatever.

And to say he has to coach 6 months to see which players need to be get rid is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. No person in charge for that kind of thing IF they are good needs that.

Hiring someone to steady for 6 months is understandable. But don't make it look like it is a long term project and 3d chess move whenever people point out that this guy does not seem to be up even for 6 months. Usually not many successful managers take the involvement of a sporting director at a club kindly let alone someone called consultant. That role has no authority at all.

LVG was well regarded too and still is.

No, you keep missing the point and still talk as if others are missing it. The club is still not considering him as long term option. But somehow you think that's the case. There wasn't a Pep or Klopp available . ETH or Poch is available only in summer. This is a 6 month stint and club went for the best available option that would be helpful for us in long term.

Again, can we please stop referring this lazy argument of Russian league ? René Meulensteen was coaching Kerala blasters 2 years back, Benitez was in China. Quality of the league has nothing to do with what a manager can do and can't do.

 

[TheReligion]

Why can’t we bring a midfielder in on loan? Surely there is someone available that is better than what we’ve got?

I don't think it's that easy. Look at Chelsea getting Saul.

 

[Chairman Steve]

Exactly. They didn't seem to be convinced of him for long term. By all means United didn't at first either.

Well you may be right. Nobody knows really though and it’s all educated guesses and speculation.

I will say though that Abramovich is as knee jerk as a match day thread on here. Hardly a good guy to work for if you want to plant your flag and invest your time in a project so to speak. It could be conceivable that Ralf and Utd have been talking on and off for some time and he knows that time would be afforded to him at Utd rather than the volatility of Chelsea, and with Woodward stepping aside, Murtough gaining more influence… maybe the time was perfect to join.

 

[The United]

No, you keep missing the point and still talk as if others are missing it. The club is still not considering him as long term option. But somehow you think that's the case. There wasn't a Pep or Klopp available . ETH or Poch is available only in summer. This is a 6 month stint and club went for the best available option that would be helpful for us in long term.

Again, can we please stop referring this lazy argument of Russian league ? René Meulensteen was coaching Kerala blasters 2 years back, Benitez was in China. Quality of the league has nothing to do with what a manager can do and can't do.

Then why are people defending him as it is ok to not do well here for 6 months because he has an eye on the long term project?

What is lazy argument with the league thing? Who rate Meulensteen here? Benitez stopped being an elite manager for ages.

 

[The United]

Well you may be right. Nobody knows really though and it’s all educated guesses and speculation.

I will say though that Abramovich is as knee jerk as a match day thread on here. Hardly a good guy to work for if you want to plant your flag and invest your time in a project so to speak. It could be conceivable that Ralf and Utd have been talking on and off for some time and he knows that time would be afforded to him at Utd rather than the volatility of Chelsea, and with Woodward stepping aside, Murtough gaining more influence… maybe the time was perfect to join.

Abramovich might be a knee jerk guy but his club is more successful than we are in the past decade.

The type of guys United hire at top are still not nearly good enough football people imo to turn this around in the near future. I bet many people didn't know Murtough or what he even accomplished to get to this position at United or is it even good enough. etc.

 

[VP89]

Sounds like irrelevant excuses for someone not doing a good job.

None of what I said is irrelevant. It's just pointing out how thoughtless your post was to be honest.

I have no view of him.. Sounds like a good bloke and he knows his football. But we have an ambition here to be the best in England again, we need to hire the best. It's that simple.... there are a lot of well run clubs finishing 8th and 16th in the league. There's also alot of bad run clubs that come 1st and 2nd every year.

The importance has never really had a consistent correlation but Top class managers tend to deliver what they are paid to do.

That's BS. You've made it very clear in your posts that you have a negative view toward him.

Lets just move on, you're basically upset that you don't see immediate improvement and don't care for context - I get it.

 

[UnitedSofa]

None of what I said is irrelevant. It's just pointing out how thoughtless your post was to be honest.

That's BS. You've made it very clear in your posts that you have a negative view toward him.

Lets just move on, you're basically upset that you don't see immediate improvement and don't care for context - I get it.

Mainoldo is always negative, they'd be upset if we smashed 6 past prime Barcelona.

 

[AneRu]

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG.

I know he’s an interim which is why I expect Interim things. He’s not going to be here to work the press and we can clearly see we have players who don’t want to do it. But we knew that when Ole decided to build this athletic team working harder and running more than the opposition. That is this team.

It’s been built poor and needs a fresh batch of players who are willing to adopt a system.

All this we know. But we hired a interim. My expectations are fine are some of yours?

Frankly speaking this nonsense, players don't have the luxury to want or not want to execute the manager's instructions interim or not especially at Manchester United. Many players were sold for much less by Fergie and because we now pandering to their whims look at the decline we have endured.

Conte was available we decided against it. We also didn’t press to get Poch or ETH. So we are here.

When Conte was available we had no vacancy in the dug out so it's now a moot point to argue. We are talking about the options available to United after Ole got the sack and situation prevailing then not a couple of weeks back.

 

[AneRu]

Has Moyes failed at his level?

What happened at Sunderland?

 

[romufc]

Of course I know all the stories.

My point is that RR would not be good enough for coaching the team for 6 months and he would not be good enough to restructure here due to having a consultant role which will have no authority at all. Which contradicted with some people in CAF's opinion that he was hired to influence long term. With the people in top (ED leaving or not) at United, he won't and he is probably not even the best person or at position to do that.

So what makes you say that he is good at neither? He took clubs from lower divisions into CL in the Bundesliga.

He has taken Red Bull clubs to consistent CL football.

Well, Richard Arnold has reportedly said he wants to give footballing people the decision to make about football, so why can't he be the person to restructure?

The club have gone out and looked at the work he has done, he is well respected in the footballing world too.

 

[Mainoldo]

What happened at Sunderland?

They got relegated for being a non Premier league club toxic throughout. They now have a great Netflix tv series which you get access to.

 

[bond19821982]

Then why are people defending him as it is ok to not do well here for 6 months because he has an eye on the long term project?

What is lazy argument with the league thing? Who rate Meulensteen here? Benitez stopped being an elite manager for ages.

No one has said that he will bring wholesale revelation in 6 months. He will analyze the situation and prepare us to move forward with a new progressive manager. If we had appointed Conte, we would have just followed the trend of appointing the best available, chasing a short term goal. For us to be progressive, you need to have a base built . You can't expect someone to come in mid season and do wonders with a team , who had absolutely no idea of the pressing game.

Rene and Benitez reference was to clarify that my employment is independent of what I am capable of. They are plenty of reasons why someone opted a job. The quality of the league has nothing to do with it.

 

[The United]

So what makes you say that he is good at neither? He took clubs from lower divisions into CL in the Bundesliga.

He has taken Red Bull clubs to consistent CL football.

Well, Richard Arnold has reportedly said he wants to give footballing people the decision to make about football, so why can't he be the person to restructure?

The club have gone out and looked at the work he has done, he is well respected in the footballing world too.

I also know what he did with those clubs in general.

And again let me point out that we are nothing similar to those clubs and we are not here to build a new club in Bundesliga.

 

[romufc]

I also know what he did with those clubs in general.

And again let me point out that we are nothing similar to those clubs and we are not here to build a new club in Bundesliga.

So you only know what he has done with the Red Bull clubs not the others right?

Because Shalke and Hoffenheim were formed well before Rangnick took over.

So what would you do, carry on as we are and keep making mistakes?

 

[The United]

No one has said that he will bring wholesale revelation in 6 months. He will analyze the situation and prepare us to move forward with a new progressive manager. If we had appointed Conte, we would have just followed the trend of appointing the best available, chasing a short term goal. For us to be progressive, you need to have a base built . You can't expect someone to come in mid season and do wonders with a team , who had absolutely no idea of the pressing game.

Rene and Benitez reference was to clarify that my employment is independent of what I am capable of. They are plenty of reasons why someone opted a job. The quality of the league has nothing to do with it.

I get that we can't expect someone to come in the middle of season and do wonder. I know some people in other clubs did that and some don't especially at our club.

Or it is because the person is just probably not good enough. Which I am open-minded to that.

Of course I agree with having a sound structure for the club with footballing operations, you trust RR with it. I don't mainly because he won't fit the club of our size and the top people we hire.

 

[The United]

So you only know what he has done with the Red Bull clubs not the others right?

Because Shalke and Hoffenheim were formed well before Rangnick took over.

So what would you do, carry on as we are and keep making mistakes?

And those clubs are similar to us? And how many years ago?

What would I do? I would hire DOF and Manager who are currently at their peak.

If you ask who, I don't have that knowledge or scouting system for it.

But, I know that we have not been getting the best people lately and everyone can see that. And we are more or less following the same pattern even then with hiring unknown people or friends or past-it people based on their past reputation ages ago.

 

[romufc]

And those clubs are similar to us? And how many years ago?

You do realise we haven't won the PL since 2013, we are not the club you think we are.

We are closer to AC Milan than we are to winning the PL.

 

[VP89]

You do realise we haven't won the PL since 2013, we are not the club you think we are.

We are closer to AC Milan than we are to winning the PL.

AC Milan are in a title race right now

 

[The United]

You do realise we haven't won the PL since 2013, we are not the club you think we are.

We are closer to AC Milan than we are to winning the PL.

You do realize that it is not that simple to compare club sizes like that right?

It is not just about what we have won in last few years. The commercial power, the reputation, the feck up management, the expectation...

And what did he win with those clubs btw? A German cup? Where are they now? Didn't he quit one of those jobs citing the stress?

 

[MinGin]

Is he really decided not to strengthen and upgrade the midfield in this winter window?
It is hard to compete the rest matches.

 

[Mainoldo]

Frankly speaking this nonsense, players don't have the luxury to want or not want to execute the manager's instructions interim or not especially at Manchester United. Many players were sold for much less by Fergie and because we now pandering to their whims look at the decline we have endured.

So what is it? They not taking it on board? They not good enough? Our the coaching team can’t coach It?

When Conte was available we had no vacancy in the dug out so it's now a moot point to argue. We are talking about the options available to United after Ole got the sack and situation prevailing then not a couple of weeks back.

Well that’s abit obtuse isn’t it. We was getting spanked 5-0 by our rivals when he was available. It’s not like we had a tough choice to make

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It wasn't. Bruno was almost playing as a second striker with Cavani. If anything it was a 4-2-2-1-1.

The problem is you have the two holding midfieldners in Fred and Mctominay, the wide players who are so wide in Rashford and Greenwood then a massive game between the holding players and Bruno / Cavani. This results in huge open spaces for any opposition with a 3 man midfield to basically waltz through. Its why I hate this bloody formation and I just don't get why RR keeps persisting with it.

Christ almighty.

 

[Son]

Can I just remind everyone that we haven’t conceded anything like the amount of goals we did before Ralf joined plus he’s lost one game despite the team being disjointed.

It’s not like it’s the end of the world and it will take longer for players to adapt to new ideas.

It’s not Ralf’s fault we have an unbalanced squad and a few big players (Maguire, Rashford plus arguably AWB too) who just shouldn’t be playing for us for various mental health or just technical reasons in the foreseeable future.

Pogba is injured also which is a giant miss and Bruno has been out of form since the first game of the season.

Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho are brand new to the team and Greenwood is young. That’s most of the first 11 have some problem.

 

[macheda14]

Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, PSG.

I know he’s an interim which is why I expect Interim things. He’s not going to be here to work the press and we can clearly see we have players who don’t want to do it. But we knew that when Ole decided to build this athletic team working harder and running more than the opposition. That is this team.

It’s been built poor and needs a fresh batch of players who are willing to adopt a system.

All this we know. But we hired a interim. My expectations are fine are some of yours?

Why are they relevant? Barca and Real have only really had each other to contend with. Juve have now dropped off beyond belief and PSG, well its Ligue 1 and yes they also lost last season. No poorly run club in the prem has won the prem. That's the only league that is relevant.

Well the way you're posting you seem to be expecting the world from Rangnick.

Ole said all those things, but in reality based one what we see now he built diddly squat in terms of athleticism and intensity.

My expectations are that he will build some sort of tactical foundation for the next manager, whilst also being able to advise which players aren't suited to a hard pressing system. However you keep on harping about us needing a World Class coach and that there was no point replacing Carrick. To be honest your points seem to make 0 sense.

He's come in and wants us to play a completely different style of football than we have for the last what 9 years? Since Ferguson we havent been a hard working pressing side apart from a few months when it was all Ole spoke about. Give him a bit of time before you make some judgements about his ability to coach pressing into this team. He's barely had any time out on the grass with this squad.

 

[ManchesterManchester]

I think this is going to go down as a huge mistake.

Why do you say that? The huge mistake was already made when they didn’t replace Ole.

The season was already over when we hired Ralf. He can’t do any damage on a 6 month contract and the season already down the pan. Even if he fails then it can be considered as a minor mistake at most.

 

[Mainoldo]

Why are they relevant? Barca and Real have only really had each other to contend with. Juve have now dropped off beyond belief and PSG, well its Ligue 1 and yes they also lost last season. No poorly run club in the prem has won the prem. That's the only league that is relevant.

Well the way you're posting you seem to be expecting the world from Rangnick.

Ole said all those things, but in reality based one what we see now he built diddly squat in terms of athleticism and intensity.

My expectations are that he will build some sort of tactical foundation for the next manager, whilst also being able to advise which players aren't suited to a hard pressing system. However you keep on harping about us needing a World Class coach and that there was no point replacing Carrick. To be honest your points seem to make 0 sense.

He's come in and wants us to play a completely different style of football than we have for the last what 9 years? Since Ferguson we havent been a hard working pressing side apart from a few months when it was all Ole spoke about. Give him a bit of time before you make some judgements about his ability to coach pressing into this team. He's barely had any time out on the grass with this squad.

We’ve won the prem numerous times even with these owners. So explain your point? Chelsea have won the Prem they wasnt The best run club when Jose was in charge. Was Blackburn a well run club? They won it once.

So explain to me what you mean by well run club?

The rest of what you are saying is just a bunch of rubbish. All that can be done in the background which is what they claim to have been doing for 8 years now. We just need a system and top quality players ti play in it. That gets sorted out by a top level manager who knows what they are doing.

 

[Guapa]

This guy oozes football knowledge,you only have to listen to him speak to see that.This is the first step on a long road to recover,18 months before we begin to seen a turn around for the club.And most of these players will be gone.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Following the Villa game, RR mentioned that the introduction of Van de Beek (an extra midfielder) gave us more control of the game.

"The game against Villa today confirmed, with a minimum three central midfielders, we had problems in times of the game to control the centre of the pitch," Rangnick explained. "From the very moment when we changed to a diamond in the last 20 minutes, when Donny came on, from then on we controlled the game, we had our counter-attack situations.

Now, although we weren't great at keeping the ball, we did stem the flow of those Villa attacks, who looked very likely to score before that change. Therefore, I think we may see a 4312 going forward, especially against Villa on Saturday.

 

[Flexdegea]

Ralf was not hired to help us compete for trophies. He was hired to start the ball rolling of finally modernising Manchester United and phase out the SAF shaped hole that we’ve tried to fill for far, far too long. I don’t recall anyone saying that we were going to win Champions League and Premier League with Ralf, people were more excited as we were finally getting our act together and behaving like a modern club.

His interim manager remit is to basically assess what we have to work with to get us back to the top, like which players need to be fecked off, which players we should keep, which players we can possibly get a tune out of etc. Getting Champions League qualification is a bonus for him in my opinion.

We hired him for what’s happening after this 6 month period really. Thats been Ralfs focus for the past 10 years with the Red Bull project with him mainly being a technical director and once in a while will jump down and be head coach.

If United is a restaurant, then Ralf is primarily the Executive Chef and not the Head Chef.

Pretty much nailed it.


Don't know why everyone getting excited the other way about this season, where we are at on the pitch. Much bigger game at play here.

The fact it was worded with consultancy role beyond the interim shows the club clearly want to go in the right direction bringing the football side of things up to speed with the commercial side.

 

[Ayoba]

Christ almighty.

What?

 

[Nordmore]

Ralf was not hired to help us compete for trophies. He was hired to start the ball rolling of finally modernising Manchester United and phase out the SAF shaped hole that we’ve tried to fill for far, far too long. I don’t recall anyone saying that we were going to win Champions League and Premier League with Ralf, people were more excited as we were finally getting our act together and behaving like a modern club.

His interim manager remit is to basically assess what we have to work with to get us back to the top, like which players need to be fecked off, which players we should keep, which players we can possibly get a tune out of etc. Getting Champions League qualification is a bonus for him in my opinion.

We hired him for what’s happening after this 6 month period really. Thats been Ralfs focus for the past 10 years with the Red Bull project with him mainly being a technical director and once in a while will jump down and be head coach.

If United is a restaurant, then Ralf is primarily the Executive Chef and not the Head Chef.

Spot on.

I'll judge the first phase of his job by the end of next summer. For the time being he has my full support.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Pretty much nailed it.


Don't know why everyone getting excited the other way about this season, where we are at on the pitch. Much bigger game at play here.

The fact it was worded with consultancy role beyond the interim shows the club clearly want to go in the right direction bringing the football side of things up to speed with the commercial side.

Yes, consultancy. Not DoF or CEO. No one knows how much influence he'll actually have, so I find this assumption that he's assessing the squad during this period to be a bit of a stretch. If the spell goes badly, he may not even get that role.

The job of the interim is to steady the ship and try to secure top 4. That's why the fans, the players, the board... they all expect instant results.

 

[TheReligion]

And those clubs are similar to us? And how many years ago?

What would I do? I would hire DOF and Manager who are currently at their peak.

If you ask who, I don't have that knowledge or scouting system for it.

But, I know that we have not been getting the best people lately and everyone can see that. And we are more or less following the same pattern even then with hiring unknown people or friends or past-it people based on their past reputation ages ago.

so you don't have a clue what to do really

 

[flameinthesun]

Yes, consultancy. Not DoF or CEO. No one knows how much influence he'll actually have, so I find this assumption that he's assessing the squad during this period to be a bit of a stretch. If the spell goes badly, he may not even get that role.

The job of the interim is to steady the ship and try to secure top 4. That's why the fans, the players, the board... they all expect instant results.

Have to agree with this, the reason Ole was sacked was because it looked possible that he would not be able to motivate the team to get top 4 based on performances. So hiring Ralf was to steady the ship and secure top 4. In order to secure top 4 he needs instant results.

He was also made coach it seems to implement a high press high action philosophy, if he reverts back to 4 2 3 1 counter attack football, then it begs the question of how good is he as a coach really.

If, from a coaching perspective, Ralf cannot get top 4 and is not expected to get it, then we probably should have kept carrick on and let Ralf focus on his upstairs role.

I still believe its too early to judge him.

 

[He'sRaldo]

A big part of the reason Ole's interim period was a success is that he came in and immediately made the changes that both the players and fans were crying out for. 3 man midfield, Pogba on the left, fluid front 3 with pace and technique, more aggressive pressing, attacking, being on the front foot and scoring multiple goals, etc.

That's why Ralf has struggled. He came in and still played the same old players who have been stinking it up for years now. Making the same old substitutions. Having the same old mentality as before (aka sit back and counter, with a little bit of pressing). And he hasn't given many chances to the previously marginalized players who were geared to be the ones to have extra motivation. Nothing has really changed, and both the players and fans can see that; hence there's nothing really for us to be excited about or get behind.

His lack of bravery to make the initial changes we could all get behind has squandered any sort of bounce he could have generated. I don't see his interim period being a success, and I doubt he'll be kept on as permanent.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Can I just remind everyone that we haven’t conceded anything like the amount of goals we did before Ralf joined plus he’s lost one game despite the team being disjointed.

It’s not like it’s the end of the world and it will take longer for players to adapt to new ideas.

It’s not Ralf’s fault we have an unbalanced squad and a few big players (Maguire, Rashford plus arguably AWB too) who just shouldn’t be playing for us for various mental health or just technical reasons in the foreseeable future.

Pogba is injured also which is a giant miss and Bruno has been out of form since the first game of the season.

Varane, Ronaldo and Sancho are brand new to the team and Greenwood is young. That’s most of the first 11 have some problem.

The only reason we haven't conceded that many is through luck and poor finishers. Are you telling me that City and Liverpool wouldn't put at least 5 past us if we played like that? The gaps in the middle of the park and down the sides are immense, they would have an absolute field day. We are set up to neither counter nor press. Pains me to say it, but right now, we're playing as bad as under Ole. We have absolutely no control of the ball and we're compounding it by everyone making stupid mistakes. Any other top team would be able to see out the last 5 minutes. Not us. We collectively shit ourselves every time. We continuously gave away the ball through poor touches and decision-making. Even at the very end, we almost gave away a penalty. It's just mind-blowing how bad we are right now and I really can't put my finger on why. Confidence is the only thing I think. But is that confidence in themselves or confidence in Rangnick? Because it's very weird how for 30 minutes against Palace we saw a completely different side. And it's been downhill ever since. There's no way they had enough time to take on his idea before that game, so they must have been winging it. Yet they did ok. Now we're a shadow of that attempt to play Ralf football.

Clearly, we're attempting to play football in a formation that doesn't suit us. We're playing with a forward who doesn't press, selfish wingers who only want to shoot, a scared midfield that can't control the ball, and a defence that makes silly mistakes and is terrified of giving it to them, not to mention not the greatest full-backs. Everything about our team screams "don't do it Ralf." Yet we've continued to plug away in vein. Why the hell will we not just put 3 in midfield? Obviously, he sees that we're not able to control it. McFred are not the best but it would take superman in there when they're constantly playing against 3 other players, then a forward who drops in. Our wingers aren't helping and our defence is too deep. It seems like complete suicide to play this way. Ralf is a smart man. I hope he changes things soon. But I'm starting to lose faith.

I expected it to take a while for us to master the press. And Covid didn't help. But we aren't even trying and we are wholly dysfunctional.

Someone, please restore my faith.

 

[HailtotheKing]

A big part of the reason Ole's interim period was a success is that he came in and immediately made the changes that both the players and fans were crying out for. 3 man midfield, Pogba on the left, fluid front 3 with pace and technique, more aggressive pressing, attacking, being on the front foot and scoring multiple goals, etc.

That's why Ralf has struggled. He came in and still played the same old players who have been stinking it up for years now. Making the same old substitutions. Having the same old mentality as before (aka sit back and counter, with a little bit of pressing). And he hasn't given many chances to the previously marginalized players who were geared to be the ones to have extra motivation. Nothing has really changed, and both the players and fans can see that; hence there's nothing really for us to be excited about or get behind.

His lack of bravery to make the initial changes we could all get behind has squandered any sort of bounce he could have generated. I don't see his interim period being a success, and I doubt he'll be kept on as permanent.

It's slightly different though, isn't it? Ole picked the same players that had been performing poorly, he just took the handbrake off. And it was such a breath of fresh air to these players that felt chained up, that they started to play more freely. The joy came back. I agree with what you're saying, but I'm not sure it was possible for Ralf to come in and replace all the players with the ones on the bench. Sure it would make those players happy but what about the new ones. All you'd be doing is replacing one group of unhappy players with another, far more powerful group that owns the dressing room. So the only way he could really do it is to give the experienced players a chance first and assess them. Then slowly switching them out and when they've proven others deserve a chance. Which is what I expect from here on in. I expect him to make the changes and give the other players a chance and make the "stars" earn their place. It would be much easier if he were actually the new manager, then like Villa, you'd have a bunch of players killing themselves to earn their place. Ralf is interim though, practically a supply teacher. And unless upper management makes it clear he's staying, it's going to be very difficult unless we start seeing some real results on the pitch. Otherwise, no one is going to trust him - the players, the fans, and eventually the board. Worrying times.

 

[The United]

so you don't have a clue what to do really

Do you seriously think that anyone here could answer that with an adequate knowledge?

 

[pedgon]

Looks lost out of his depth and clueless. This pressing thing is never gonna happen at United. We are a counter-attacking team with wide men and pace not all down the middle stuff. Until we get control of the midfield with 3 or 4 in there we will win nowt.

 

[Canucantona20]

Ralf is in a new league, with new players, it will take time for him to adjust his tactics accordingly. The covid out break didn’t help too. Every game/ practice session he is learning something new about the players. He is still churning out results though, but will guarantee behind the scenes he is not happy with the performances.