Ancelotti to make history this season?

The holy trinity 68

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Zidane hasn't won much as a player, if you put him with the others than you extend the list to a lot of people. He could be in that list in the near future though.
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AshRK

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He should have succeeded Jose. Pretty sure we would have won a trophy or two.
 

harms

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Always found it strange how Bayern players said his training was too relaxed considering how much success he has
He always is/was like that though. Very adaptable & lenient towards the players, which is why he’s so successful (but ultimately not at the very top of managerial hierarchy). Perfect for that Madrid squad that very much rules itself (hence the failure of someone like Benitez), but an odd choice to follow details-obsessed manager like Guardiola.

I want to specify that the “rules itself” doesn’t mean that anyone can win stuff with them, it’s clearly not the case, but there is a coherent group of leaders at the core of that team that can resist any outside influence if they find it not to their liking. A bit like at United except that our bunch does it without justifying their behavior with trophies.
 

Red the Bear

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Bringing up the league record with Milan doesn’t really help your point when you include the context of Moggi and Calciopoli tbh

His record everywhere is very good, about the only real knock you can put on him is not having a tangible style that you associate with him, he just goes wherever he goes and gets the very best out of what he has at his disposal.
I actually consider that one of his best attributes and one of the reasons that I rate him highly.

But you just can't make his league record look good, I just looked up the points totals of serie a during his tenure and corruption or not its terrible, especially with the lineups that he had (you could say their old age was detrimental to sustained title campaigns but still), and his Chelsea triumph as impressive as it was was thanks to an offside goal in a year were we had one of our most miserable line ups.

His achievements speak for themselves, his league record ain't one of em.
 

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Winning multiple European Cups and league titles with 2 different clubs as a player, and then 3 Champions Leagues with 2 different clubs and each of the top 5 league titles as a manager, represents an insanely good career in football !

Along that theme, can Cruyff be considered as one both one of the 10 greatest players of all time, and one of the 10 greatest managers of all time?
 

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World Cup x1
European Championship x1
Champions League x1
La Liga x1
Serie A x2
UEFA Super Cup x2
Intercontinental Cup x2
Spanish Super Cup x1
Italian Super Cup x1
Intertoto Cup x2

World Player of the Year x3
Ballon D'or x1
World Cup Golden Ball x1
As a player that's not enough in that conversation. That's not to say that he has been unsuccessful.
 

The holy trinity 68

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As a player that's not enough in that conversation. That's not to say that he has been unsuccessful.
Surely it has to be when we are including player and manager, though. As a manager he has 3 CL titles, 2 La Liga titles, 2 Spanish Super Cup and 2 UEFA Super Cup all in the space of 5 years as a manager. Pep only has 2 CL titles in 14 years as a manager.

Zidane is also the only manager to win the CL more than once back to back and he won 3 back to back.
 

didz

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I’d put him and Pep in the same bracket of big club managers and the best at it. I don’t think he was bad with us but he obviously deals better with big players and personalities.
I would have thought the problems Everton have had this season make it seem like Ancelotti was doing a far better job than anybody realised?
 

Red the Bear

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Winning multiple European Cups and league titles with 2 different clubs as a player, and then 3 Champions Leagues with 2 different clubs and each of the top 5 league titles as a manager, represents an insanely good career in football !

Along that theme, can Cruyff be considered as one both one of the 10 greatest players of all time, and one of the 10 greatest managers of all time?
I feel cruff gets a bit over rated in managing influence, his theoretical works was nowhere near as influential as sachi or his mentor the great rings michels. He also didn't win that much so I found him getting rated so high a bit strange.

He definitely built the foundation for barca's dominance though, he gets massive credit there.
 

JPRouve

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But Del Bosque also hasn't won much as a player. I mean, he has, but he has no Champions League as a player, no success on international level as a player either. Zidane has already surpassed him as a Real Madrid manager, and international player.
Del Bosque compensate his lack of CL as a player with a WC and a Euro as manager. I'm not telling you that Zidane is a bum or that my take is the only acceptable, it's just my take.
 

JPRouve

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Surely it has to be when we are including player and manager, though. As a manager he has 3 CL titles, 2 La Liga titles, 2 Spanish Super Cup and 2 UEFA Super Cup all in the space of 5 years as a manager. Pep only has 2 CL titles in 14 years as a manager.

Zidane is also the only manager to win the CL more than once back to back and he won 3 back to back.
Nothing has to be, it's a personal opinion on a subjective topic. Your list is as good as mine.
 

phelans shorts

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I actually consider that one of his best attributes and one of the reasons that I rate him highly.

But you just can't make his league record look good, I just looked up the points totals of serie a during his tenure and corruption or not its terrible, especially with the lineups that he had (you could say their old age was detrimental to sustained title campaigns but still), and his Chelsea triumph as impressive as it was was thanks to an offside goal in a year were we had one of our most miserable line ups.

His achievements speak for themselves, his league record ain't one of em.
But like I say, you. Can’t really separate his Milan record from Calciopoli. This isn’t to say his record elsewhere is spotless, it isn’t, but you can’t downplay some league titles and then make out that not winning in one of the most corrupt eras of modern football is some major misstep of his
 

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He will make history for the league title for sure but for the CL Real will need 2 more miracles.
 

Pretzels81

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great manager as has been said but it's importance to tamper the hyperbole.

On a side note would have loved to have him here at United especially in 2013 after Fergie left.
Exactly; after 2014, he would have been a much better "veteran Top manager until we find the right guy" option than either Van Gaal or Mou.
 

Loon

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If he won the European Cup, doesn’t that put him ahead of Ferguson and Lippi(?) for most European trophies or something?
 

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If he won the European Cup, doesn’t that put him ahead of Ferguson and Lippi(?) for most European trophies or something?
Carlo, Zidane and Paisley are tied on 3 CL wins and I think it's the only relevant stat. Sure other international trophies are cool, but they don't count half as much.
 

Denis79

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Zidane hasn't won much as a player, if you put him with the others than you extend the list to a lot of people. He could be in that list in the near future though.
Who are we comparing against? Ancelotti, Beckenbauer and Del Bosque? I would say Zidane has had a better player record than both Ancelotti and Del Bosque. Only Beckenbauer has been more successful.
 

SilentWitness

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I would have thought the problems Everton have had this season make it seem like Ancelotti was doing a far better job than anybody realised?
He definitely improved players like DCL but he wasn’t without problems. We played worse football under him in the second half of the season than other managers we struggled under in my opinion.
 

Red the Bear

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But like I say, you. Can’t really separate his Milan record from Calciopoli. This isn’t to say his record elsewhere is spotless, it isn’t, but you can’t downplay some league titles and then make out that not winning in one of the most corrupt eras of modern football is some major misstep of his
I just feel calciopoli was overblown in proportion, but I can't argue with your point , do I'll concede that.

He still could have done better with real in his first stint and chlelsea in his second (though I heard that the players threw him under the buss there so maybe not his fault in that one).
 

Red the Bear

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Exactly; after 2014, he would have been a much better "veteran Top manager until we find the right guy" option than either Van Gaal or Mou.
We made a mess of that one for sure, I heard that we did approach him at a certain point but it was too late as he had already finalized with real.
 

JPRouve

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Who are we comparing against? Ancelotti, Beckenbauer and Del Bosque? I would say Zidane has had a better player record than both Ancelotti and Del Bosque. Only Beckenbauer has been more successful.
It's an overall comparison of their careers in the game. Not a separate ratings of their careers as players and managers.
 

Loon

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Carlo, Zidane and Paisley are tied on 3 CL wins and I think it's the only relevant stat. Sure other international trophies are cool, but they don't count half as much.
Fair enough. Find it weird how disposable people find other trophies (including league titles) at the altar of the inherently flawed “Champions” League.
 

Denis79

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It's an overall comparison of their careers in the game. Not a separate ratings of their careers as players and managers.
Ah ok, my fault. Was thinking it was odd to exclude one of the most successful players ever, sorry.
 

JPRouve

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Fair enough. Find it weird how disposable people find other trophies (including league titles) so disposable at the alter of the inherently flawed “Champions” League.
It makes little sense when the Cup champions cup was as difficult to win. If anything people should have a closer look at those other titles and downgrade the post 2000 CL because that competition opened to more teams which were normally playing against each others in the C2 and C3.
 

Red the Bear

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If he won the European Cup, doesn’t that put him ahead of Ferguson and Lippi(?) for most European trophies or something?
I think you meant trapattoni as lipi has only won 3 European titles, 3 of them are tied on 7.

Its important to remember that Fergie has 2 cup winners cup titles which at the time was a very strong competition, and the both times he won win it under impressive conditions, first with Aberdeen as huge underdogs where he beat bayern munich on the way to beating real Madrid.
And the second time with us beating cryuff's barca who would go on to become European champions the very next year.
 

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Definitely one of the most decorated people in the history of the game. One of the few who was a great player and went on to become a great manager too.

Hope he does it too. Normally don't like seeing Real win, because they are really one of the most corrupt clubs ever. But would rather see them win the CL over Liverpool or City.
 

Loon

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I think you meant trapattoni as lipi has only won 3 European titles, 3 of them are tied on 7.

Its important to remember that Fergie has 2 cup winners cup titles which at the time was a very strong competition, and the both times he won win it under impressive conditions, first with Aberdeen as huge underdogs where he beat bayern munich on the way to beating real Madrid.
And the second time with us beating cryuff's barca who would go on to become European champions the very next year.
Ah Trappatoni. Thank you. I could not be bothered to look it up! :lol:

Total agreement with you on the Cup Winners Cup achievements.
 

didz

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He definitely improved players like DCL but he wasn’t without problems. We played worse football under him in the second half of the season than other managers we struggled under in my opinion.
I get the feeling he works with his players to work out the kind of football his teams should be playing, rather than working it out himself and dictating to his players.

Maybe giving Everton players that kind of autonomy is a bit different to giving it to Real Madrid players, in that once the novelty of it wore off, the collective style lacked direction?

Its interesting because I had thought he'd done pretty well at Everton at the time - maybe I wasn't paying attention fully.
 

AshRK

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Yeah could have been, where was he at that time?
Maybe Napoli? He joined everton in 2019 December. So could have joined us at the start of the 2019 season. Ole should have just been our interim and then passed it on to Carlo or some other qualified manager
 

Andrade

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I feel cruff gets a bit over rated in managing influence, his theoretical works was nowhere near as influential as sachi or his mentor the great rings michels. He also didn't win that much so I found him getting rated so high a bit strange.

He definitely built the foundation for barca's dominance though, he gets massive credit there.
Cruyff may not be the most successful player/manager combo but he is definitely the best. He was all time elite at both. I can't think of another figure of whom that is the case. Maybe Zidane would be the closest.
 

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Cruyff may not be the most successful player/manager combo but he is definitely the best. He was all time elite at both. I can't think of another figure of whom that is the case. Maybe Zidane would be the closest.
I wish Beckenbauer could see this.
 

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Definitely one of the most decorated people in the history of the game. One of the few who was a great player and went on to become a great manager too.

Hope he does it too. Normally don't like seeing Real win, because they are really one of the most corrupt clubs ever. But would rather see them win the CL over Liverpool or City.
I agree with all of this.
The man is a legend. I really like him. Still find it nuts how Chelsea got rid of him, which I thought was an insane move on their behalf. But, it hasn't stopped him winning things (or them, for that matter, I guess).
 

Red the Bear

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Cruyff may not be the most successful player/manager combo but he is definitely the best. He was all time elite at both. I can't think of another figure of whom that is the case. Maybe Zidane would be the closest.
Your right, Zidane can definitely over take him though.
 

Andrade

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I wish Beckenbauer could see this.
OK, he's up there too for sure. But I don't think he was as good a player as Cruyff (different roles of course) or as good a manager as Cruyff.
 

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I get the feeling he works with his players to work out the kind of football his teams should be playing, rather than working it out himself and dictating to his players.

Maybe giving Everton players that kind of autonomy is a bit different to giving it to Real Madrid players, in that once the novelty of it wore off, the collective style lacked direction?

Its interesting because I had thought he'd done pretty well at Everton at the time - maybe I wasn't paying attention fully.
I don’t think he was bad and that’s not what I’m saying. I just think his absolute top level is with a big club and that’s completely fine. Some managers excel the most in certain circumstances.
 

didz

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I don’t think he was bad and that’s not what I’m saying. I just think his absolute top level is with a big club and that’s completely fine. Some managers excel the most in certain circumstances.
Fair enough, although I wonder if most managers would claim that their top level would be easier to reach at a big club, even if they might be wrong!

Ancelotti would be right, of course, as you say.
 

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Carlo Ancelotti has coached the following elite clubs:

- Juventus, 2 complete seasons.
- AC Milan, 8 seasons.
- Chelsea, 2 seasons.
- PSG, 1 season and a half.
- Bayern, 1 complete season.
- Real Madrid, about to be 3 complete seasons.

If Madrid win the league that will make 5 league titles after coaching 17 seasons in elite clubs.

The outcome with teams out of Italy regarding domestic trophies is not bad, but 10 complete seasons at Juventus and Milan and just one league is not that good to be honest.
 

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I remember when he managed Chelsea, I can't remember if it was a game against United or some random team, but he was wearing a beanie and looked absolutely adorable. I've had respect for him ever since that day.