We've had 200m or so of talent in Matic, Pogba, Bruno and Fred operating in the centre of the mid, yet McTom has been a regular.
I think that says a lot about everything.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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I think that says a lot about everything.
The freekick routine was hilarious because it's clear Telles was waiting to get it back, not for him to cross it.
He seriously has a very low footballing intelligence, Kante toyed with him very easily.
His standing in the squad will be a good indication of where the future lies for the club. With Scotty's place still in the starting XI unchanged, Erik will be tinkering on the fine margins for three seasons.
That pass to Rashford sums up this guy. Completely free, needs to do simple pass and he can't do it
McTominay starts more or less when he's fit, with players like Pogba, Fred and Matic available.
Did wonder if he was rushed back from injury recently because of the crisis in midfield. Not excusing his performance or his deficiencies but i wouldn't be surprised if he's still injured.
The whole ocean of space between where he was dispossessed and the defense, I just cannot stand the sight of it. Throughout the whole match, Kante just blitzed through the open field in the middle.
Fergie laughing in the crowd finished me
Being consistently shite in a team of utter shite is damning praise.
Returning to your initial post I quoted, you claim McT ‘stepped up’ under OgS despite the evidence of our eyes & results showing us differently. To say I’m reflecting on one game when I literally stated how he let down OgS is a tad disingenuous, especially when your defence were passing stats from. . . one game. This isn’t the Bruno or Matic thread so the defence that his passing was more accurate than player x is irrelevant. You don’t judge an underperformer against fellow underperformers especially when you could argue all 3 aren’t good enough. He wouldn’t get near the squads of teams we should be aiming to compete with. As for walking around, multiple posters have mentioned he’s just as culpable on occasion.
My issue with McT & the narrative around him is people like yourself willl openly admit he’s not good enough to start then say he’s good enough to be in the squad, so what happens when the player we purchase to replace him is injured for 3 months? There are obviously levels throughout a squad but a player with glaring deficiencies can’t be relied upon. In the short term, it’s clear he’ll play a role but if he goes on to captain the club that’s more damning on our future than anything.
None of us know what will be in RRs list so let’s stick to what we do know. Are there more concerning issues? Yes but this guy has done nothing to show he’ll be the next Henderson or Fletcher so it’s blind faith to think this guy will be around in a few years time.
Everyone has been utter shite. Unfortunately, some get away with more than others.
I claimed McTominay was one of our standouts under Ole and also since RR has come in. Does that mean much? Probably not, given how poor we've been but that's my opinion. As for the don't judge and underperformer against an underperformer, who else who am I meant to compare him to? I mean, we keep talking about City and Liverpool. Based on the game yesterday's game, we're not even close to Chelsea neither, so it's a case of making sure we can walk before trying to run.
I literally said we need two midfielders in the summer, but of course you conveniently missed that bit. Let me know where I said he should be starting or a squad player? That's not to say I don't think he shouldn't, but I didn't give my opinion on that, especially not in this thread, so try not to put words in my mouth.
None of us do know, but I'd say McTominay is one of he few players that RR has showed an admiration for. He's the manager, so I'm pretty sure he's knows a bit more than both of us.
Woeful player. But hey, he's from the academy carrying forward the United 'eritage...
How can you "make yourself available" to teammates who are getting closed down and don't have a minute's peace?
Watch the match again. You'll see what I'm talking about. There were times in the second half where even Varane didn't even time to look up, for he was trapped by Chelsea players and lumped the ball forward.
Here's some stats:
With McTominay (Vs Chelsea): 25% possession and 345 passes. (Drew 0 - 0)
Without McTominay (Vs Liverpool): 28% possession and 354 passes. (Lost 4 - 0)
Not really a big differential in terms of stats. 3% more possession and 9 more passes when McTominay isn't playing.
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Squad? Sure.
First XI? On current form? Not in a million years.
But who of our first XI would?
No idea what that means.
Is McTominay beyond reproach? Certainty not.
You want me to criticise him? Fine. His spacial awareness is horrendous. Probably the worst I've ever seen in a Scotland midfielder. On a Scotland viewpoint, I don't want him anywhere near the midfield.
Can spacial awareness be coached into players? I think it can. It really depends on the player's willingness to learn
But am I going to say that he's the only player letting United down? No. It's not like the other ten players are pulling up trees and McTominay is the only one not playing well.
If people want to talk about stats? Fine. Let's chat about stats. Scott McTominay had the the second be passing success rate (85.7%l only behind Lindelof (92.9%).
I'm not going to throw any of our players under the bus till we get a real manager. Not just McTominay.
Also, leading up to our equaliser, who pressed Kante and pressurised him into the turmover? One guess. Yes. McTominay.
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No.
I watched the match against Chelsea again.
The Chelsea press was so efficient that all of the United players were guilt of mass turnovers. To blame that all on McTominay "not making himself available", is absurd.
You're spot on. It's a team issue.
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Yeah, replace him with one of those big boring Portuguese DMs like Carvalho and Pereira their fans all moan about and we'd be better defensively since they read danger much better and are better positioned, and they'd link bit better too, even if they aren't outstanding at it.
There might be a team and system for McTominay in the lower mid-table, like Palace (Gallagher doesn't really do much outside of the final 3rd) or Southampton but that's best case scenario.
Firstly, Liverpool are a much better team than Chelsea. Especially a Chelsea team that aren't playing particularly well lately with only two wins in their last 5 PL matches and would be at real risk of losing 3rd if any of the teams below them got their shit together.
Secondly, I don't need to watch any individual match back. I've watched basically every match we've played for years. It's something that McTominay has always done and it has a significant negative impact on the team and it's ability (or lack thereof) to control matches and build play. As such it's not surprising that when we're already having difficulty that he makes it even more difficult.
Thirdly, I actually do believe that McTominay has normally been the best option out of himself, Matic and Pogba over the last couple of years. That's not because he's been remotely good enough, but that the other two have managed to be even worse. All three of them desperately need replacing and shouldn't even be worth a squad position here. They have the ability to have the odd good match or even month here and there, but consistency in midfield is vital and none of them are close to good enough. There is a chance that ETH might be able to get Scott up to a decent squad player level, but even that is unlikely IMO.
He plays centre back for Scotland doesn’t he? How about we get actual proper midfielders, sell one of Bailly/Maguire and have him be backup centreback?
The reality is, he’s not good enough to play centre midfielder.
The reality is, he’s not good enough to play centre midfielder.
If it was just this one game you'd have point. Go into his player performance thread. Posters have been pointing his "hiding" when we have possession all season long. It's nothing new. He can't find space and create angles for passes.
"cares for the club" cringeworthy and shows how far we have fallen.
He’s nowhere near Gibson whose biggest battles were off the pitch, which ruined his football from a young age, unfortunately.
Gibson was slow and un-athletic, but he could pick out any number of passes over any range when given time on the ball. Equally, his shoot was outrageous when he had a clear sight of goal. His positioning and understanding of midfield was also far superior to McTominay; he just wasn’t up to the PL, and even if he were, his off field issues would’ve ruined him anyway.
McTominay has to rank as one of the worst products to be promoted, and that’s not putting the boot in; his technical ability and understanding of the game is some way off an Eagles, Cleverley, Gibson, Jones or whoever else can be drawn out of the hat. He’s the only promoted player I can think of who has got his come up based on physical attributes over actual ability, most that can’t make it here, or even at PL level, fall short as athletes, not players, and McTominay bucks that trend.
That’s a ridiculous assertion; practically every game Keane played for Ireland, where he has countless all-time performances, refutes the point.
I've heard it all now. No difference in performance between Keane and McTominay. Christ
Firstly, Chelsea are the current European and World Champions. And currently they are in position 2nd and third. You're acting like I was comparing a 2nd place place team to the 20th placed team.
But fine, we'll compare both Liverpool matches this season:
With McTominay (Vs Liverpool): 37% possession and 409 passes. (Lost 0 - 5)
Without McTominay (Vs Liverpool): 28% possession and 354 passes. (Lost 4 - 0)
Again, the difference is minimal.
Secondly, blaming one player for us having 25% possession is clinically insane.
Just because people say things, doesn't make it true.
By claiming that he's "hiding" would suggest that either RR and the coaches don't see it. Which is astonishing in its arrogance.
His spacial awareness must be improved.
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No surprise, he's absolute shite. The fact that plenty rate him because he gives his gob off and gets stuck in, allegedly, sums up how far standards have fallen.
I think some people hold on to him making it because of his academy status. If he was a foreigner he would have about as much support as Pogba has right now.
The problem with McT is that he hasn’t improved since being in the team. He is even still talked about like he is fresh out of the academy which is odd as he is 25, the ability should already be there as he approaches his peak.
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this guy being a starter for us is a reflection of how far we’ve fallen
Cool. Let's just pretend that it wasn't McTominay who pressed Kante into the turnover that lead to the equaliser.
You have? From where? From whom?
No one said that here. Unless you're just making stuff up.
I said that if you put peake Roy Keane in this team, the difference would be minimal.
People drool over Haaland, right? I don't remember Norway qualifying for the previous Euros. Norway lost in the playoffs to Serbia, and Serbia lost to McTominay's Scotland.
Nor have Norway qualified for the upcoming World Cup. They finished below Turkey.
It's almost as if one player can't make a difference. Who would've thunk it.
Hell, I watched Celtic (With Keane) losing to Clyde (who were in div 1) in the Scottish Cup In Roy Keane's debut.
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a) Pogba is from the academy
b) McTominay is a foreigner
c) if Pogba ran around and grafted like McT then he wouldn't be regarded like he is now. He's a vastly more talented player.
No, that can't be. That's impossible! -Luke Skywalker
Not sure McTominay quite qualifies as a foreigner just because he declared for Scotland because he’d no hope of ever playing for England.
He never even stood out for the academy imo, and it was a huge surprise (personally) to see Mourinho promote him to the first team. Technically he was never good enough and it seemed like he was going to be released at some point until Mourinho threw him a life-line and brought him into the first team fold.
So IMO this was a case of a manager (Mourinho) whose vision to evolve the team dynamic was to implement a brand of football where the objective was to cede possession to the opposition (especially against the bigger teams) and hit the opponent on the break. So the build up play in possession wasn't as crucial in his approach, which in-turn gave rise to the big, physical, high energy midfielder which Mourinho appreciated. Because it's the same Mourinho who once said upon the return of Matic to Chelsea from Benfica, that 'Chelsea should never have sold a player that is 1.90m tall'
But unfortunately for us, Solskjaer and Phelan's transfer strategy saw us add Wan Bissaka and Maguire, and instead of evolving as a front foot team, we consolidated our approach to playing a counter attacking brand of football by ceding space to the opposition, especially against the bigger teams. And that meant high energy midfielders like McTominay became effective in such a approach from the options we had. Our position in the league wasn't sustainable because it was built on a style of play which relied on more players defending and less players attacking, with a midfield that was technically deficient on the ball as a whole.
It's the first time since Fergie retired where I believe we've hired a head coach who has a vision on how to implement a proactive/attacking brand of football that meshes well with the modern game. And I fully expect things to improve and evolve as far as the calibre of player that takes up a position in the first team. I can't see how the like of McTominay will last as a first team regular for too long.
So IMO this was a case of a manager (Mourinho) whose vision to evolve the team dynamic was to implement a brand of football where the objective was to cede possession to the opposition (especially against the bigger teams) and hit the opponent on the break. So the build up play in possession wasn't as crucial in his approach, which in-turn gave rise to the big, physical, high energy midfielder which Mourinho appreciated. Because it's the same Mourinho who once said upon the return of Matic to Chelsea from Benfica, that 'Chelsea should never have sold a player that is 1.90m tall'
But unfortunately for us, Solskjaer and Phelan's transfer strategy saw us add Wan Bissaka and Maguire, and instead of evolving as a front foot team, we consolidated our approach to playing a counter attacking brand of football by ceding space to the opposition, especially against the bigger teams. And that meant high energy midfielders like McTominay became effective in such a approach from the options we had. Our position in the league wasn't sustainable because it was built on a style of play which relied on more players defending and less players attacking, with a midfield that was technically deficient on the ball as a whole.
It's the first time since Fergie retired where I believe we've hired a head coach who has a vision on how to implement a proactive/attacking brand of football that meshes well with the modern game. And I fully expect things to improve and evolve as far as the calibre of player that takes up a position in the first team. I can't see how the like of McTominay will last as a first team regular for too long.
End this misery. Please. I can’t stand the sight of him in our midfield. A midfielder who doesn’t have one single good thing about him other than the academy tag and that tag has become the sole reason we ended up in this predicament. Watching him play in the midfield makes me drool over ward prowse signing for us like he is prime Matthaus which he might be compared to Mctominay.
Absolute coward of a player who hides on the pitch in every game. I wouldn’t wish this kind of player even on our enemies. I would pick any of Gibson, Richardson, Eagles , Cleverly over him easily if i have to without a blink. He is the true definition of a nothing player. Playing with 10 men. A pointless and useless footballer. I really don’t want to see him again playing for us week in week out next season hopefully never. Just get rid.
Absolute coward of a player who hides on the pitch in every game. I wouldn’t wish this kind of player even on our enemies. I would pick any of Gibson, Richardson, Eagles , Cleverly over him easily if i have to without a blink. He is the true definition of a nothing player. Playing with 10 men. A pointless and useless footballer. I really don’t want to see him again playing for us week in week out next season hopefully never. Just get rid.
And the award for the most melodramatic post of the year, goes to....
Fine. McTominay playing is like playing with ten men? How many men did we have when Liverpool and Everton beat us? (Without McTominay)
I think he's out of the Brentford match. We'll still struggle.
Everytime people claim that McTominay "hides" is pretty much saying that you know better than RR.
For the millionth and one time. No professional footballer hides. No semi professional footballer hides. He just has bad spacial awareness. That's not the sane as actively hiding.
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Scotty has his uses.
But even I think he has severely underperformed this year.
Sort of the old cliche that England prioritises athleticism/size over footballing abillity.
When was the last time someone like foden could break through at our club? Sancho?
We seem to be stuck with only picking the bigger lads, who may or may not be good footballers.
Thats why I really want the club to give Garner/Mejibri/Gnarcho a chance.
But even I think he has severely underperformed this year.
Sort of the old cliche that England prioritises athleticism/size over footballing abillity.
When was the last time someone like foden could break through at our club? Sancho?
We seem to be stuck with only picking the bigger lads, who may or may not be good footballers.
Thats why I really want the club to give Garner/Mejibri/Gnarcho a chance.
That first 6 weeks after RR became the manager he was possibly our best player or one of. Been dreadful since then.
The thing I hate to hear from the fans the most is the say that he got passion
He jogs decent amount in games but he keeps switching off in games and sometimes he is too lazy to track the runners. From his body movements (low frequency of footwork, high centre of gravity) you can see that he is not 100% tensed up in the games. this is not something that happen to a guy with passion.
I agree,
But you also have to remember that many on here have not seen MUFC dominate in midfield and dominate the opposition. All they've known is the likes of McFred losing every single midfield battle they partake in, with Bruno or Ronaldo bailing us out of trouble. This year, I cannot think of even one game where we dominated midfield.
We've also conceded a huge number of goals, despite world class performances by our GK. IMO, most of the players need to be exorcised from the club. The loser mentality has now filtered down to the fans who accept that losing to Watford and teams at the bottom end of the table is actually quite normal.
Back when Martial had a huge following, I stated that in 1999, he would not have made the bench, let alone played any games for us.
I am going to say the same about McFred - neither of these players would've made the bench in our 1999 team and neither of them belong in a team which aspires to win the league.
Pathetic thread.
Everyone going nuts over some weird stats anomaly
Oh but his XG says...
Everyone going nuts over some weird stats anomaly
Oh but his XG says...
I wonder this as well. Not comparing myself to professional football players, obviously, but I remember when playing school footie we went to the U18s from U16s I was called to train with the U18s. I'd been one of the three best players in my U16 team but it was immediately obvious that I wasn't ready and probably didn't have the speed of thought, feet (and dedication tbf!) to get there. They were very kind but I remember that feeling of being out of my depth. I do wonder whether pros like McT or Lingard feel that, or whether egos built over years insulate them.
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