So? Didn’t know the final was the only thing meaning something.
I think trophies provide a pretty good indication. At best you could say the City trio match them for talent, but when you compare performances at the top level of the game it's night and day and really you have to say the City trio was a big let down. Internationally the same holds.
Xavi only played in 4 games the first time he won the CL, all were group games and only one time did he play 90 minutes. That's not instrumental.
They dominated the international level unlike most others which combined with their club successes including league successes which the Madrid trio cannot match, makes them far superior even in terms of trophies.
But these are just 3 players out of a squad. Trophies are not enough an indication.
Yup, he was featured a bit in that season but if you look at the minutes and matches he played it's an exaggeration to say he was instrumental...
Yeah u can say too, that's how complete Modric is ...
He had a ligament injury that season and played very little games.
Xavi was instrumental in 2 CL wins, he was injured in 06 and a squadie in 15.
You can't compare international football domination because one trio belong to the same national team and the other belong to three different ones. The latter can't dominate together, and in the case of Kroos and Modric, one of them winning a major title requires the other one to lose it.
Xavi was not a starter in his last season at Barcelona. They won that league, and then two of the next three. At that point, Iniesta retired. Barcelona then won the league again. They are currently 1 point away from 1st and have a good chance of winning their second league title in three seasons without Iniesta. It would be their fifth league title out of seven since Xavi retired, which is about the rate they had in the seven years before Xavi retired.
With xavi and iniesta they were probably the best team so far in football.
Xavi hardly played in 2006. You're obviously talking to make some point scoring / agenda driven point, based on nonsense.
Yes but you can't focus completely on trophies and decide that it's just CL titles you want to consider becuase it's suits your view. The Barcelona midfield did win those three major international trophies which is in addition to the CL successes as well as winning an elite league for fun. It's the complete package as far as success goes.
Aye. For both Barcelona and Spain their success relied on midfield control. When they lost it, they crashed out (see 12/13 v Bayern or the 14 WC). During Real's 4 Champions League wins, as much as the midfield usually dominated, there were a number of games where they lost control of midfield, but they were able to rely on a stronger defence to withstand the pressure.
Agreed. Oddly enough I think Madrid's midfield has been slightly underrated (in comparison to Ramos and Ronaldo) in their contribution towards their success. But would still be less fundamental to their cup success as compared to the Barca trio's club and country ones. I'd attribute a bit more towards Madrid's depth which was perfect for cup competition i.e if Benzema doesn't play well then James or Bale will come on and make a difference. If Di Maria doesn't then Ozil may just.
This is a decent argument. But I would counter the idea that Real Madrid "were able to rely on a stronger defense." Real Madrid does not have a stronger defense than Barcelona. In each of the seasons of the three CL run, Real Madrid conceded more goals than both Barcelona and Atletico in La Liga (including the season in which they won the title). In the 2nd and 3rd CL wins, they conceded 17 goals each time. They only had a good defensive record in the 2016 win, in which they mostly played teams that weren't up for it.
Again, the issue here is context. Real Madrid got 96 points in La Liga in 2010. The midfield was like, Granero, Guti, van der Vaart, and Kaka. Nothing special. Two seasons later they got 100 points, with Alonso, Khedira, and Ozil. Good players, but not the greatest talents in history or anything like that. Barcelona won the league titles, which is obviously very important, but we have good evidence that there was an upper and lower limit of 'points per game for top teams' in La Liga during that period and the limits were pretty close together.
That's true but also reflects Barcelona and Spain's dominance of the ball as the main reason why they boasted such impressive defensive records. I'm talking more about the crunch Champions League ties where Real were able to rely on their defence when under the cosh. For example, Sergio Ramos has had several man of the match performances in finals, semi-finals and quarter finals en route to Champions League success. Meanwhile the likes of Varane and Pepe have also been imperious at times during some of those runs. The difference for me is that the Barcelona defence never got tested to the same degree due to the level of protection their midfield's ball mastery gave them.
I definitely wouldn’t say that. Casemiro was immense defensively as the game went on, and Kroos, but especially Modric, were constantly frustrating the Pool players hopelessly trying to press them.
Valerie is going to be special I feel, played out of position throughout the entire CL run and never saw him have a bad game.
It's the worst midfield Liverpool have come across in a CL final. Modric and Kroos were literally walking around even when defending.
I don’t see it. He will be a good player but technically and in his actual quality he’s levels below the three. Best they will do with him is turn him into an energetic midfield runner which can play an important role but just don’t see him ever being the kind of player that goes right to the top. Camavingha on the other hand…
Only have to walk when you have Thiago ballooning every pass and Henderson not worth a feck and Fabinho wingeing and gurning at every foul.It's the worst midfield Liverpool have come across in a CL final. Modric and Kroos were literally walking around even when defending.
But credit to them, they'd rather have a CL winning statuesque midfield than an all action losing one. Their voodoo in the CL will never wane.
