UK Rail Strikes

Penna

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Back the unions and join one if you're not already a member. And as it happens, the strongest union in the UK is the British Medical Association, they've negotiated some outrageous deals for their members.

Good luck to the rail workers!
 

11101

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There are tons of agency staff on LU that carry out safety critical work every night of the week.
To be fair I don't know enough about London Underground to argue the point, but not on Network Rail there aren't.
 

Vidic_In_Moscow

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To be fair I don't know enough about London Underground to argue the point, but not on Network Rail there aren't.
A great deal of the track maintenance is done by agency workers and there are always a good number of agency signalling technicians also that get work every night. Almost all of the protection workers are agency too.

I would have assumed it was similar on Network Rail but you seem confident that isn’t so. Do you work there?
 

11101

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A great deal of the track maintenance is done by agency workers and there are always a good number of agency signalling technicians also that get work every night. Almost all of the protection workers are agency too.

I would have assumed it was similar on Network Rail but you seem confident that isn’t so. Do you work there?
No but I know plenty who do and i know a bit about the inner workings. Agency staff don't do any work that's related to the safe operation of the railway.

LU has some of the best employment terms in the world so the RMT can't be that bothered about competency of agency workers, as long as the pay and holidays go up!
 

Kag

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See thats where they are being disingenuous. There are no agency staff in safety critical jobs on the rail network, dispatch work is about as close as they get. They work in customer service mostly. If the RMT cared a jot about safety they wouldn't have been so fond of the 12 hour days in order to get extra days off.

I remember the days of Bob Crow holding London to ransom every other weekend. The RMT are the least safety concerned of all the unions. The government aren't negotiating with them because their demands are so far from reality, and they're being so militant in their actions. They will push the government into introducing minimum service levels if they keep it up.
Lies. I know for a fact this is untrue.
 

Summit

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Exactly, because they got an extra day off. Never mind the fatigue of the days they do work.

That job is not classed as safety critical. They're not doing anything that touches the track or the trains or how they are run.
That job is very safety critical. I am a coss myself I should know. The job is managing people's safety on the line. Blocking the line with signallers and making sure it's all safe before any work can be taken on the line. If that isn't done correctly then people die. But it isn't safety critical?
 

Buster15

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How might they address point 1 given the, as you rightly highlight, control of the media by the counter narrative?
My limited understanding is that they have been offered something like 2.2%, with further increment of 0.5% subject to efficiency improvements; effectively job cuts.
That being the case, they have to take every opportunity to address the media hammering that message. Especially TV and radio and social media. Because I believe that they can get the public onside.

Few people, Tories apart would say that is even remotely an acceptable deal given the BoE are projecting 11% inflation.
 

Buster15

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Back the unions and join one if you're not already a member. And as it happens, the strongest union in the UK is the British Medical Association, they've negotiated some outrageous deals for their members.

Good luck to the rail workers!
Absolutely right.
I see this as a key battle ground and one that workers - all workers have to succeed in.
The government is going to do anything and everything to turn the public against the RMT.
Divide and rule.
At the moment, the only thing that workers have to use is their unity.
If the RMT fails, then we will all lose out and inflation will not be met by wage increases and we will all become significantly worse off for years to come.
 

finneh

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Absolutely right.
I see this as a key battle ground and one that workers - all workers have to succeed in.
The government is going to do anything and everything to turn the public against the RMT.
Divide and rule.
At the moment, the only thing that workers have to use is their unity.
If the RMT fails, then we will all lose out and inflation will not be met by wage increases and we will all become significantly worse off for years to come.
What do you think would happen to inflation if every single worker got an increase in line with inflation - say 11%?
 

africanspur

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Back the unions and join one if you're not already a member. And as it happens, the strongest union in the UK is the British Medical Association, they've negotiated some outrageous deals for their members.

Good luck to the rail workers!
I'd be interested why you think this is the case. A lot of doctors (rightly) left the BMA after becoming disillusioned in 2016 and the general deterioration of doctors' pay and working conditions over the past couple of decades.
 

phelans shorts

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I'm fecking fuming this has really hit me in the pocket. I'm not able to go to a couple of gigs this week as a result of this. One wasn't cheap and I'm unable to sell it thanks to the lazy bastards at Ticketmaster.

Tories have sat back and done feck all. Labour can feck off too, not voting for them now at the next election.
absolutely incredible post, this
 

Summit

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What do you think would happen to inflation if every single worker got an increase in line with inflation - say 11%?
Do you think there isn't a negotiation to be had? I know the rmt have asked for 11% but do you not think that this is a negotiation tactic? Start high cause they know they'll be pushed down.
 

F-Red

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Back the unions and join one if you're not already a member. And as it happens, the strongest union in the UK is the British Medical Association, they've negotiated some outrageous deals for their members.

Good luck to the rail workers!
This is the same RMT who told it's members to vote for Brexit :houllier:
 

Summit

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This is the same RMT who told it's members to vote for Brexit :houllier:
What's that got to do with the price of fish? If you are using that as am argument to go against the rmt, then what do you say for Boris?
 

F-Red

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What's that got to do with the price of fish? If you are using that as am argument to go against the rmt, then what do you say for Boris?
Don't get blindsided. A union like the RMT thinking about employee welfare wouldn't push for Brexit, a policy which does everything to remove or lessen workers rights.
 

Summit

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Don't get blindsided. A union like the RMT thinking about employee welfare wouldn't push for Brexit, a policy which does everything to remove or lessen workers rights.
The tory government in boris is the one that championed it. This fight isn't about brexit. Leave it out
 

finneh

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Do you think there isn't a negotiation to be had? I know the rmt have asked for 11% but do you not think that this is a negotiation tactic? Start high cause they know they'll be pushed down.
I think the free market determines salary. If there's 10,000 jobs and 50,000 applications it tells you the job is too highly paid. If there's 50,000 jobs but only 10,000 applications then the wage is far too low. I suspect given the salaries train drivers are paid the former is the case.

If staff want better salaries, working hours or conditions there's a million jobs being advertised for so they should get a better one.

In fairness if my understanding is correct I believe nurses have far more jobs being advertised than people who want to do it so there's a big case for increases there. The railways not so much.

/Edit my industry is case and point. Factory workers have gotten a 20% pay rise over the last 2 years (mainly due to European staff leaving meaning there's far more jobs than workers) whereas staff on £40k+ have received pay rises of around 3% total due to the opposite problem, ie people being made redundant during Covid increasing supply with demand not increasing to match (although the latter scenario is starting to change also).
 
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F-Red

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The tory government in boris is the one that championed it. This fight isn't about brexit. Leave it out
I don't know, the RMT seemed pretty resolute in their response here - https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-sets-out-six-key-reasons-for-leaving-the-eu/

This isn't about Brexit, but let's not kid ourselves that this is a union caring about employee welfare or it wouldn't be so emphatic in its points above, points which have proven to have been wrong and impacted employee pay and conditions. This strike boils down to pay ultimately, with a few safety trojan horses put in for good measure with this strike to balance public opinion. They'll get to the third strike and the settle on a 5-6% increase and move on.

The wider worry for the RMT should be the declining numbers of people using the railways, that is where job losses will come from longer term.
 

Summit

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I don't know, the RMT seemed pretty resolute in their response here - https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-sets-out-six-key-reasons-for-leaving-the-eu/

This isn't about Brexit, but let's not kid ourselves that this is a union caring about employee welfare or it wouldn't be so emphatic in its points above, points which have proven to have been wrong and impacted employee pay and conditions. This strike boils down to pay ultimately, with a few safety trojan horses put in for good measure with this strike to balance public opinion. They'll get to the third strike and the settle on a 5-6% increase and move on.

The wider worry for the RMT should be the declining numbers of people using the railways, that is where job losses will come from longer term.
I'm not arguing about that. I work for the railway and agree with this strike. No payrise for 3 years, certain jobs being cut 50 percent which reduces the safety aspect of the railway completely. There is so much more but I don't care to argue with someone who's bringing up points that have no argument here.
 

phelans shorts

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I think the free market determines salary. If there's 10,000 jobs and 50,000 applications it tells you the job is too highly paid. If there's 50,000 jobs but only 10,000 applications then the wage is far too low. I suspect given the salaries train drivers are paid the former is the case.

If staff want better salaries, working hours or conditions there's a million jobs being advertised for so they should get a better one.

In fairness if my understanding is correct I believe nurses have far more jobs being advertised than people who want to do it so there's a big case for increases there. The railways not so much.

/Edit my industry is case and point. Factory workers have gotten a 20% pay rise over the last 2 years (mainly due to European staff leaving meaning there's far more jobs than workers) whereas staff on £40k+ have received pay rises of around 3% total due to the opposite problem, ie people being made redundant during Covid increasing supply with demand not increasing to match (although the latter scenario is starting to change also).
The “free market” is a sham entirely designed to exploit workers for the benefit of those at the top.
 

Buster15

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What do you think would happen to inflation if every single worker got an increase in line with inflation - say 11%?
I fully understand that question and it would be stupid of me to say that it would not have any effect.
However, it would also be stupid to say that workers should not try and get the best wage they possibly can.
And remember.
This huge increase in the cost of living has nothing to do with wage increases.
 

F-Red

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I'm not arguing about that. I work for the railway and agree with this strike. No payrise for 3 years, certain jobs being cut 50 percent which reduces the safety aspect of the railway completely. There is so much more but I don't care to argue with someone who's bringing up points that have no argument here.
I'm not really surprised on your position if you work for the railway, and no one is arguing - it's a debate. If there's so much more, then why don't you educate? Every strike I've seen from the RMT is always about pay, with safety wrapped up into it to 'balance' off the discussion. I'd rather they just come out and say it's solely about pay and I'd probably have more respect for them, not Mick Lynch though on his six figure salary.

No pay rise during a pandemic is par for the course, there was plenty of industries in that scenario, however current inflation warrants the discussion now. Jobs being cut though feels like it'll be a recurring theme given that rail usage is nearly half of what is was in 2018-2019. Regardless of how you strike on that latter point, if people aren't using the service then the need for the size of the workforce will only decrease with the downturn in usage.
 

Robbo's Shoulder

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Not only do I fully support the rail workers with their strike action, I would also fully support a general strike.
The people in this country need to say enough is enough.
 

Buster15

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I'm not arguing about that. I work for the railway and agree with this strike. No payrise for 3 years, certain jobs being cut 50 percent which reduces the safety aspect of the railway completely. There is so much more but I don't care to argue with someone who's bringing up points that have no argument here.
You will be aware that part of the government strategy is to try and convince the public that this is a political strike.
As someone who is directly involved, is that the way you see it.
And I am not sure you will be able to answer. But in your view, did a significant number of RMT workers support the Tories?
 

Pexbo

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I think you're misunderstanding my point.

If on a union negotiated salary of £50k per year there are 50,000 people that want the job but only 10,000 jobs; then by definition there are 40,000 people who are prevented from having the job.

Let's say they reduced the salary to £30k per year and there were now 10,000 people who want the 10,000 jobs; by definition only the people who want the job are getting the job so no-one is being prevented.

You can also see how a job that pays £20k per year more than the skill level is open to massive abuse. Whoever does the recruiting is giving away a massive salary uplift over time.which is a huge prize for the winner and big disappointment for the losers. It's the same reason Operation Varsity Blues occured and the same reason Johnson recently tried to appoint his girlfriend to be his chief of staff.
Dear god what are you on about?

Paying people a fair wage is bad because it means competition?
 

Redlambs

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Tried to get into London this morning for work, gave up and turned around.

I don't know feck all about what they are arguing about now, but as long as it's just I support people fighting for what's right.
 

groovyalbert

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Completely support the strike, and those of all public workers being completely strung up by outrageous pay conditions in the face of the current inflation crisis.

That said, that this is being conducted by a union that actively supported Brexit and is now unhappy with a situation that their stance has largely contributed to... I get that the war in Ukraine/COVID has also impacted this, but look at the economic forecasts of major EU economies...

This does strike me of Turkeys voting for Christmas, and then kicking up a fuss.
 

Summit

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You will be aware that part of the government strategy is to try and convince the public that this is a political strike.
As someone who is directly involved, is that the way you see it.
And I am not sure you will be able to answer. But in your view, did a significant number of RMT workers support the Tories?
I've got more involved than I like to this morning so I'm keeping quiet about it from here on in. Really not sure on who voted tory out of members btw either :confused:
 

Buster15

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I've got more involved than I like to this morning so I'm keeping quiet about it from here on in. Really not sure on who voted tory out of members btw either :confused:
Well hopefully you will have seen that the RMT strike has significant public support.
 

Redlambs

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Well hopefully you will have seen that the RMT strike has significant public support.
Yes it's nice to have the support it really is.
I wonder if that's a sign that people are actually beginning to stop believing this bullshit government finally.

In the past, the RMT have been seen as almost militant and corrupt (what was his name, was it Bob Crow or something like that?) in the way they went about striking over the slightest thing and had a really bad name with Londoners especially.

Now, even though it's causing chaos, I'm seeing a lot more support and it feels like for once people are agreeing with those fighting for their worth. It's encouraging to see.
 

11101

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That job is very safety critical. I am a coss myself I should know. The job is managing people's safety on the line. Blocking the line with signallers and making sure it's all safe before any work can be taken on the line. If that isn't done correctly then people die. But it isn't safety critical?
It's not a job which touches the operation of the railway and is classed as safety critical, as I'm sure you know.

Anyway, nothing wrong with strikes but as usual the RMT take it too far and work in the interest of their leaders over their members or the public. Their demands are ridiculous and they know it.