Well, I am sure he wants a CM but bringing a player for sake of bringing a player is pointless. Someone like Sangare might not even be better than Fred.
How many times have you watched Sangare play?
The McFred midfield duo
- Thread starter kouroux
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
How many times have you watched Sangare play?
Plus it’s two CMs that are needed anyway not just FDJ. Donny and McT should be shipped.
They were just bad managers, 2 of them were sacked and the other had a 30% win rate. I won't blame ten Hag yet as he's still got the window to rectify it, however if he goes into the first game of the season with these 2 starting then I find it hard to envision him lasting 18 months.
Very little, and from what I have seen I can't judge whether he is worth bringing. Neves on the other side I think would be a good improvement on what we have, and I do think 50m pounds is too much for him, but I think there were reports earlier this summer that he would be cheaper something like 30-40m pounds.
Ideally we do need 2 CMs, but at this point and after Eriksen, one additional CM is the best we can hope.
I agree that we cannot go into a season with McFred only, I mean just the fact that we are going into a season with only 2 senior CM's is a joke in itself, let alone these starting as they are mid table at best.
However, it is very difficult when a club cannot scout a CDM and expecting the manager to scout players and coach the team. Neves is an option because he is popular and the fans know about him. Wolves will not sell less than 50m now, we will probably end up overspending on a player.
So really, we will lose out on De Jong because of the 17m euros owed by Barca, but we will spend 20m more on a Neves transfer fee... not very clever business.
This is bothering me as well. We're getting some good players but hardly adressing the biggest pain points.
McFred work OK in tandem, but there is no other functional midfield combination we can have, what is a huge worry.
Regarding van de Beek, I still don't understand why he is used so high up the pitch. Surely if he has any future in this club, it will be in midfield?
Tielemans is talented but lazy. Neves is slow AF and he's only incrementally better than McFred. Sangare, who really knows if he's any good? Seems like a Spurs midfield signing that will flop after showing some promise initially.
Anyway I'm curious to see what happens after Eriksen comes in. Maybe he'll be at CM.
I honestly think we would be better off shifting McTominay to stop-gap CB and splashing cash for Defensive Midfielder who can work with Fred/Eriksen than spending 50M on left footed CB, but I will be happy to admit I was wrong if Martinez really has such a positive impact on our game. For sure he will have a lot of opportunities to show his quality with THAT midfield options shielding the backline.
We dont have anyone else.
And the main problem imo is because we are led by very weak people in charge. Look at Bayern, they don't play on other clubs terms, they play on their own. We should have set a deadline of De Jong and made it known to the player and the club as well. And that deadline should have happened before the season is put at risk.
And I am pretty sure we have CDM scouted, but this Martinez and De Jong business leaves an impression in which Arnold and Mourt or whatever the feck his name is, want to distance themselves and put everyone at clear that we buy whoever the manager wants. Thus creating the problem of one man decision making. I mean ETH might turn out the right one, but after so many years of shit dealing the club should not operate this way. I could never imagine Bayern to operate this way, simply because with that kind of approach it gives the impression that everyone else just tries to keep his hands clean, and only the manager takes the blame, because eventually there will be transfer duds.
After the season starts, I think if we go for Neves they will try and fleece us for 60m, which is laughable and border line Maguire kind of bollocks.
Tielemans is not what we need imo, Neves is slow, but not sure he is that much slower than FDJ for example, and incrementally better? Mate Fred and McT struggle to pass properly, and it is shocking for CMs, feck their running or work rate, a CM that struggles to pass properly should be out of the team. Spurs midfielder signing like Hojbjerg? I'd take that, however not for 50m.
They work OK for a tandem in a team that aspires to finish 8th. VDB I do also think should play deeper.
I sincerely hope that Martinez is tried at CDM, and turns out great.
I was hoping he will be a CDM in 4-3-3 / left footed CB backup, but it doesn't seem so reading ETH comments.
Like I said in other threads, I have a feeling regardless of his "best/preferred" position Martinez will be shifted to CDM sooner than later.
Not only we don't have a single player who can play that role, but also because we don't have enough midfielders.
Dreadful players. Offer zero calmness and composure to the midfield. Passing range is non existent. Zero resistance to press and both go hiding in most games.
And we are prepared to play these for another season if we can't sign FDJ. Jesus wept.
And we are prepared to play these for another season if we can't sign FDJ. Jesus wept.
Well tbf Ole never played him so maybe blame the useless board.
I wouldn’t be surprised if McFred played together more games than Carrick and Scholes did.
I wonder if there’s any way to check for that stat quickly, definitely can’t be arsed to do it manually and look for game by game
I wonder if there’s any way to check for that stat quickly, definitely can’t be arsed to do it manually and look for game by game
Can't be going in to this season with these two again just can't, have seen them for ages now we know what they are about as a duo they fall apart when pressed, they can't pass and they have no situational awareness whatsoever. You could legit put together a season long highlight reel of the amount of times they wouldn't pick up runners just strolling through the middle its like Pogba on crack.
Edit: Just look at these goals - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/post-match-vs-liverpool.466434/ Keita was involved in everything and its like they weren't even there just staring at their back while they attack the goal.
Edit: Just look at these goals - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/post-match-vs-liverpool.466434/ Keita was involved in everything and its like they weren't even there just staring at their back while they attack the goal.
Last edited:
They could look better but we all know their ceiling, McT's specially. I hate to see this thread bumped each time tbh, it reminds me how annoyed I was when I started it
The source of my annoyance and lack of interest in this window has to do with us ignoring midfield again. Also wondering if Eriksen is seen as a deep midfielder or a 10 by Erik. I guess we will have to wait until the season gets going to see whats in the managers head.
Im hoping that if it really is FDJ or bust that the alternative is 5 at the back and we can go with Fred and Eriksen as the 2 in the middle with Martinez pushing up when needed.
I think Fred is okay has a small bit of composure but Scott just looks for the safe pass every single time and most of the time they are sideways and backwards. I’ve never seen a player in the premier league as terrified in the ball as Scott. He never drives forward and his positioning is awful. Scott isn’t a Man Utd squad player even.
You put everything how I feel into words. We keep going on the same cycle. Whether in turns out well or not this is the same approach we took under all the other managers. I hate that our protests are never centred around our approach to the market and our sporting structure. It's always about Glazers selling the club which is impossible hence why I never care. Its never about the things I actually feel as a fan base we could actually change. Which would do the club a world of good. Now watch Erik fail and we go replace him with Diego Simeone like we didn't just fill the club with players that play a possession brand of football.
I will hold my bullets till December. Think in a more possession based style of play, they’ll look better.
Not saying WC just better.
Not saying WC just better.
We just can't go another season with McFred attempting to control midfield. It just doesn't work.
I'm not even sure we try to. I mean maybe, but that would suggest consecutive incompetant managers. I would say the idea is more that they're there to break up opponent attacks as axemen and our managers rate their ability to do it higher than their performances suggest. I think they're closer to accomplishing that than "controlling midfield" at least in terms of ball use.
I still don't think a top team would have either as a regular starter.
United should only be thinking about central midfield for the remainder of the transfer window.
If ETH starts the season with McFred then it’s going to be Groundhog Day all over again.
You can’t tell me the only player in world football than can improve McFred is Frankie.
If ETH starts the season with McFred then it’s going to be Groundhog Day all over again.
You can’t tell me the only player in world football than can improve McFred is Frankie.
All things aside and I expect it to change this season BUT how bad we think they are as a pairing, every single manager to date plays them. All the managers have had the opportunity to bring someone in or to play someone else in that position and they haven’t. If like people say, they are mid table or relegation quality players, this means they are easy to replace yet they are still here. We’ve ignored DMs that were free or entering their last year of their contract and signed players that arguably weren’t a priority over that position.…can the last 5 managers all very different be wrong?
I’ll take anyones money that Fred starts this season irrespective of who we sign.
I’ll take anyones money that Fred starts this season irrespective of who we sign.
You can't count 5 managers, neither were in the squad pre Jose, neither were first choice until Ole, and even then only after Herrera left and Matic's legs completely went. Rangnick didn't even have an opportunity to change the squad.
Vdb will replace McTominay and James Garner will replace Fred.
Eriksen can play deeper when we need but his strengths lie upfront. As he gets older though he will adapt deeper Ala Scholes as he’s very intelligent with the ball.
Eriksen can play deeper when we need but his strengths lie upfront. As he gets older though he will adapt deeper Ala Scholes as he’s very intelligent with the ball.
Fred is much better than given credit for, he’ll have an important role to play. McTominay is a solid squad player, he’s obviously not good enough for a team with title aspirations, and as a starter not really good enough for a team with top 4 aspirations. But he’s a solid rotational option. We need to bring in one top class deep lying midfielder this summer and then over the next couple of windows bring in a top class b2b.
Never mentioned anything about first choice as have they ever been. My point remains the same, managers with completely different profiles have played them regularly. Each time I hear at least no more McFred, guess who probably will be starting against Brighton? Not saying they are the answer, just if the are that much of the problem, why do they still play?
It'll be Eriksen and Fred.
Mourinho didn't even play Fred. He preferred Matic to him. Ole started his time with United with Herrera in the team. Then he wanted to add Rice but he ran out of money. Rangnick fount a heavily unbalanced and demoralised squad with players (ex VDB) determined to leave. Carrick was an extension of Ole and similarly to Rangnick he was not allowed to add new players into the team. ETH had utilized VDB as a no 10 for most of his career. He is desperate for FDJ, he had lost Matic which means that his double pivot is currently made up of Fred, McT, Garner, Zidane Iqbal and Savage. No wonder why he prefers McFred.
You have missed slight detail about these managers, failing managers they were. And you can bet ETH will follow the same path if he does not improve on these two, and fast,
On paper that is a good idea, Last two seasons we had:
Option A) McFred for majority of games, top10 teams
Option B) Matic-Pogba as every other game vs lesser opponents
Option C) McFred with Pogba on the left
Option B didn't really work well, so we had two functional midfield setups. Both included McFred. THE problem (aside from McFred being not good enough, what is A problem as well) is at this point we have nothing apart from Option A). I seriously doubt Eriksen will be playing in midfield.
That is a wise comment, I agree. We've never really aspired to control the midfield, usually even when Pogba played he was quite "timid" and mostly uninspiring. Our midfield clearly has been told to recycle the ball and give it to wingers/backline. I would expect that to change under ETH over time, however I'm not so sure after splashing cash for Martinez and still no midfielders joining.
The end? 
I get attacked regularly for being negative but it's OK to blame Scotty McT with starting WWII, being patient zero for monkeypox and a Putin spy (oh and maybe even a Liverpool fan). OK, so he is never going to be Keano or Robbo but I still think he can do the job that the likes of Fletcher and Nicky Butt did over the years.
If we can get (and, you know, actually sign) a major upgrade fine but I think McT would be help enormously by having world-class players alongside him as Butt and Fletcher did. he can possibly interchange with Fred - having both on the field is, I agree, far from ideal. But I think you need to be at a game to see the work McT (and to an extent fred) does. Shame Sky binned their player cam.
Cut being attacked for being too positive...
If we can get (and, you know, actually sign) a major upgrade fine but I think McT would be help enormously by having world-class players alongside him as Butt and Fletcher did. he can possibly interchange with Fred - having both on the field is, I agree, far from ideal. But I think you need to be at a game to see the work McT (and to an extent fred) does. Shame Sky binned their player cam.
Cut being attacked for being too positive...
Our CBs and CMs would all benefit from being paired with worldclass partners. It's not a shining endorsement they need world class partners to form a competent midfield. I actually like both as squad options with Fred being my favourite CM. They graft but the effectiveness of said graft is pretty low. I just don't understand how teams run through our middle so easily when we start with not one but two defensive CMs who graft. I've never seen a pair so inept at shielding the back four. I don't know if I'm doing enough to describe my sheer amazement by their joint ability to be constantly behind the play or somewhere else in no man's land when midfielders decide to make a beeline for our box. Two goddamn defensive CMs just somehow end up being in the wrong place and time to deter it and this happens a lot. This should be impossible if they had bare minimum positional sense for their role.
I'd keep Fred as a starter however, he's the one most likely to look good beside a Carrick. He is pretty decent in possession especially on the ball.
I agree for what it's worth and I'm in a minority that sees more potential in McT than Fred. Its not a high bar but I just cannot tolerate fred