Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap

Frenkie to United?


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Coops73

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The thing is with these club presidents in Spain they need to be elected a bit like a politician and not too dissimilar to politicians they talk bullshit in order to get votes and stay in power and he’s saying what the fans want to hear right now but when they can’t register they’re shinny new players their fan base will get pissed once laporta starts blaming De jong for this, it’s already starting to a degree.

I suspect the move will happen, one way or another, they’re already playing him at centre back and have now bought a centre back, it’s hardly subliminal what they’re saying to him, it seems like a plan the president and Xavi have cooked up to get him to feck off.

All seems quite nasty really but hey! Frenkie won’t be worrying about his gas bills this winter whatever the outcome.
 

NLunited

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And that is why you were playing him at cb in the reserve line-up? Feck you Laporta McStuffings, lying fat piece of shiit.
 

marcus agrippa

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'stay spoiled'

he signed a legally binding contract ffs, incredible that your talking about being spoiled when your spending money like a lottery winner when your 1bn in debt, owe millions in deferred wages and still currently owe over 100m in previous transfer fees

The only ones who need brought back down to earth are Barcelona, and apparently you.
These are the kind of fans Laporta (and Bartomeu before him) have to deal with. No wonder they're in such a financial mess.

BTW, anyone read the Wallace article in the Telegraph today? Behind a paywall, unfortunately. Apparently, club presidents are no longer liable for financial collapse at the club. Laporta's basically spending tomorrow's revenues because tomorrow's gonna be someone else's problem. He'll be long gone. And everything is predicated on getting the Super League going again.

 

redshaw

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I don't think there's anything new to react to. Laporta has always said they would like him to stay and he followed up with Frenkie needs to do everything possible as well which no doubt means taking a huge pay cut and saying goodbye to tens of millions. Frenkie can just stay on his existing contract and earn over 20 million a year from now until 2026.
 

FCBarcelona

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It’s not a problem to be in debt. Debt is a very good way to finance something, such as a new machine for your business. It only means that you owe someone money, such as a bank. The debt is repaid over a set time and with interest. For various reasons Barcelona have too much costs compared to their revenue and cannot pay the wages of their players. This is very, very serious and I am not sure it should even be defined as a debt. If you can’t pay your bills you are not in debt, you are bankrupt and your house will be confiscated. If a business was in Barcelonas situation it would be really, really bad. Probably restructure or bankruptcy and legal and financial consequences for the board and directors unless appropriate steps had been taken prior. Buying new players like no other club in Europe probably does not count as appropriate steps.

Even if they are legally allowed to invest in new players while they still cannot pay the wages to the existing players, it must be completely unsustainable for them long term. I think these clubs are so corrupt that they just calculate that someone or something will come in and save them later.

Pathetic club.

Manchester United had a revenue of €712 million prior to the pandemic. With that revenue and control over costs, a debt of €400 million is not an issue on its own. Whatever we think of the Glazers, United is a very well run business.
it is astonishing that you keep saying that barça cannot pay players.

barça can pay its bills. barça has always done that. if barça couldn't, barça would be relegated. revenues are increasing after covid and the wage bill has reduced considerabilly. we are already close to 400M in wage bills (560 of last year included some deferral and 1 time payments). it will take 1 or 2 extra years to be 100% free of toxic contracts.

barça had almost 1000M revenues before pandemic (i think it topped to 990). united debt is 600, not 400. barça debt will be closer to 1bn (if not less) by next year. it was 1.35bn but included some provisions that will not be paid (among other things).


So far as I understand it, our debt is secured against the value of the club and is on preferable terms and easily manageable when set against our revenue. Barca's debt was more than triple ours and due to the ownership structure I don't think they can use assets as collateral as easily as we can and so they wound up with a lot of debt on very poor terms and had their debt rating lowered during COVID which came at just about the worst possible time for them right on the heels of some massive expenditure.

Moving forward they could go for austerity, signing cheap players or free agents and use the academy graduates and they briefly flirted with this at the beginning of last season. They stank up La Liga for 3 months and crashed out of the CL at the group stage and at that point they reversed course quickly deciding that austerity was too risky as if they missed out on future CL revenue it could exacerbate the financial problems and also their fans were close to rioting at the dreadful performances they were seeing. Their new strategy is you have to spend money to make money, the obstacle being they had none to spend and so could only obtain funds by mortgaging future TV rights. The strategy is incredibly high risk, there is a scenario where they win masses of trophies including CLs and revenue explodes as a result sweeping away their problems but there is also a scenario whereby they fail to reach the knockout stages again in 1 or 2 seasons or even miss out on CL altogether and any drop in revenue could be catastrophic to the financial house of cards they have constructed. It is fascinating to watch.
of course barça can use its assets as collateral. barça can even sell them!

barça last loan (short to long term loan) with goldman sachs (last year) was closed at 1.98% (pretty decent rate from my point of view, dont you think?) and it included 90% of laliga tv revenues as collateral. that is why the "levers" were done in 2 stages of negotiations. first 10% (without gs), second 15 (including rights used as collateral with gs, that is why barça paid 100M to GS to pay part of the loan)

barça debt is, worst case, doubling united (united debt is almost 600M euros).

only a small part of the money from the levers has gone to players. the net spending in players is way lower than this forum thinks.

barça has sold 5% of the current revenues, that % will lower in the future. not good, but far from catastrophic.

Thanks for explaining, man. This is incredibly insane way of running the Club. And they've been wanting Messi to be back also. I can't just fathom of why their fans keep bury their heads in sand, and let their Club doing it.

We have Barca posters here just keep justifying their Club doing.
explanations are, best case, incomplete.
barça fans prepared a censure motion the former president (who should be in jail) and we have a new board.
the situation has MASSIVELY improved in the last year.

The Spanish League introduced it's own strict FFP rules last season, which precipitated the Messi move, it is based on turnover vs wage bill or something like it.

Barcelona have a massive wage bill, Utd still have one of the best wage bills against turnover in the prem, our debt no matter how much you hate the Glazer's for it is well managed and easily serviced by our turnover.

"The Levers" are just things that Barca can do to increase their turnover, thereby decreasing the % of their turnover taken by wages under the threshold, this is however short-termism as these are one off infuxes of cash not ongoing revenue streams
spanish ffp has been longer than that. it was covid (radical decrease of revenues) + criminal structure wages bartomeu put in placed combined what put barça near collapse (it is not there anymore).
 

Seveneric

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Who has been editing the thread title? The person should stick to their day job, unless it's comedy, then yikes.
 

sunama

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" the law change that means the club president and board are no longer liable for losses "

That basically means that they can borrow and all they need to do is pay the interest.
In any case, I couldn't give a damn about FC Barca.

IMO FDJ's presence in our team is not essential. There are definitely other CMs that will improve us. We are absolute garbage on the pitch so it doesn't take much to improve us.

The only thing that concerns me is that our board are so incompetent that they are struggling to sell our deadwood players. Selling the deadwood is a far higher priority than getting a player who doesn't want to join us.
 

Gandalf

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it is astonishing that you keep saying that barça cannot pay players.
Your club is the one that is saying that by saying Frenkie has to take a pay cut to stay. The constant posturing and disinformation from Laporta and the Barca media is exhausting, you would not be selling future revenue and asking people to take pay cuts if everything was as rosy as you say it is.

The simple truth is that you have embarked on a strategy where the clubs future solvency is based entirely upon the far from certain assumption that you will win trophies and maximise potential revenues in the CL. It could work and look like an absolute masterstroke but it can just as equally crash and burn horribly but all we hear is Barca fans repeatedly trotting out the party line and believing everything Laporta says.

You sold 25% of LA Liga tv revenues which amounts to 40M per year. The deal is for 25 years so even on the flawed assumption that the tv rights don't increase in value that amounts to 1 billion over the life of the deal that you have given up, historical trends and the market would suggest that true number will be closer to 2.5 billion and you did all of this for around 500M up front. Yes there are clauses to buy back those rights but you don't have the money to do that currently and crucially you have no certainty that you ever will as it is wholly dependent on you earning revenue from competitions you have not even qualified for yet. This is not the action of a financially stable entity and to continue to claim this is a sound business plan and Barca have no financial concerns for the future is practically cult like behaviour.
 
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feck me, they have sold 25% of la liga tv rights for 25 years at an astonishingly dog shit price, just to absolutely spunk as much as possible in one Summer. Absolutely insane stuff.
And people thought the last guy was bad.
 

Raiden Shogun

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I notice a pattern here.

Anything bad the media/journalists write about Barca, no matter how ridiculous = gospel truth, Barca are pure evil.
Anything negative about a potential Frenkie deal on United's side = made up bullshit, obviously.
Anything positive about a Frenkie deal = See! We told you! He's coming.

There is no point trying to explain the workings at Barca, people already have a preconceived notion and anything the club say or do is 'propaganda' or 'disinformation'. Utterly clueless.

Echo chamber.
 

Balljy

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So Silva into Barca and Bayern out of the race. There may be some news coming...
 

Compton22

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Basically, if Barca have a season from hell, their club is finished :lol:
 

marcus agrippa

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" the law change that means the club president and board are no longer liable for losses "

That basically means that they can borrow and all they need to do is pay the interest.
In any case, I couldn't give a damn about FC Barca.

IMO FDJ's presence in our team is not essential. There are definitely other CMs that will improve us. We are absolute garbage on the pitch so it doesn't take much to improve us.

The only thing that concerns me is that our board are so incompetent that they are struggling to sell our deadwood players. Selling the deadwood is a far higher priority than getting a player who doesn't want to join us.
First, I'm not sure 'borrowing however much they want' is accurate. They are selling future revenue in exchange for cash now. That's not 'borrowing'.

Second, ETH disagrees re: FDJ. He's of the mind that the player is essential to how he wants us playing football. He basically came right out and said it a week ago in an interview. It's FDJ or nothing. Just accept it. In any case, I agree with him: better to get the right player in, rather than just a body in. Lots were creaming themselves over our business last summer, and look what happened to our season. Or the season we got Maguire, AWB, etc. ('cultural reset' season). The other thing: by all accounts, the club are following ETH's lead in getting players in; he overruled the scouting recommendation of Pau Torres for Lisandro Martinez, for example. I can't say I blame him, given the misses the scouting department has had. In any case, there's a revamp going on in that department from what I understand, so going forward they will have to work with the manager in terms of profile of player he wants.

Third, while I'm normally highly critical of the board, I can't really blame Murtough and Arnold for the bed Woodward and Judge have made for them. How are you going to shift players on massive wages and longish contracts who've been mismanaged and regressed to the point where no one really wants them? Who's going to pay for the likes of Jones, a perma-crock on a lucrative longterm contract he should never have been offered (Woodward 'protecting value'; give me strength!).

Moreover, we've already shifted/lost Mata, Pogba, Cavani, Matic, Lingard, Grant. I'd say that's quite a few.
 

Penna

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I notice a pattern here.

Anything bad the media/journalists write about Barca, no matter how ridiculous = gospel truth, Barca are pure evil.
Anything negative about a potential Frenkie deal on United's side = made up bullshit, obviously.
Anything positive about a Frenkie deal = See! We told you! He's coming.

There is no point trying to explain the workings at Barca, people already have a preconceived notion and anything the club say or do is 'propaganda' or 'disinformation'. Utterly clueless.

Echo chamber.
Don't be daft, your club is hilarious. Can't pay your players their wages, but signing new ones every day.
 

joedirt87

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Don't understand why city would consider selling him

havent there been rumblings in the past of him leaving? I'm sure if he leaves Pep has someone else in mind either on the current roster or in the market they can go get.
 

Mr Pigeon

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looks like the Barca PR machine is firing up again.
Just wait for the Silva reveal when Laporta says "obviously the number 20 shirt is currently owned by Roberto, so Silva will have to make do with the number 21 which is not used by anyone important - and if they were important then you'd at least expect them to have a chin, amirite?"
 

SirReginald

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Don't be daft, your club is hilarious. Can't pay your players their wages, but signing new ones every day.
Their fans are cultists who will regurgitate anything Laporta does as a good thing. You cannot reason with them.

Apparently asset stripping is a good thing. In the next few years this fire will grow into a closing down sale, hopefully.
 

hellhunter

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Their fans are cultists who will regurgitate anything Laporta does as a good thing. You cannot reason with them.

Apparently asset stripping is a good thing. In the next few years this fire will grow into a closing down sale, hopefully.
Quite some bargains to be had in the future, though
 

Mr Pigeon

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Their fans are cultists who will regurgitate anything Laporta does as a good thing. You cannot reason with them.

Apparently asset stripping is a good thing. In the next few years this fire will grow into a closing down sale, hopefully.
Say what you want about Barcelona, but they have a way of bringing other rival fans together.

You fecking fat Frank loving plastic club supporting bastard.
 
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