Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

city-puma

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Maticmaker said:
I am simply expounding/moaning about, my own (pet) theory about why fan entertainment is no longer the driving cause for managers/teams.
Football is at its heart a simple game, but it's made to seem more complex, it's a kind 'complexity growth' in the game that expands to ensure more people get to 'dip their bread'... so to speak, a kind of variation on Parkinson's law (work expands to fill the time allowed for it).
All the meaningless stats ...it's the score that counts.
Even with VAR...... it's still down to the referee's decision.
All the chat from ex-pros/commentators/TV personalities, etc.... that tries to hide their bias, or allow them to build 'castles in the air' about interpretation of the rules.

We've seen what happens when the carpetbaggers (e.g., the likes of our current owners) take over the profitable clubs. I fear with the potential involvement of the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ etc. i.e., the mass (live) media producers, football will no longer be the working people's favourite sport, it will become a variation on Hollywood, especially when the advent/market positioning (world-wide) of the new Super League will knock the PL of its top spot, because that is what its being set up to do and why English clubs should stay away...far away.

Our game should value the customers it has already, because once they get turned off/jettisoned (e.g.) who needs 75,000 watching live in a stadium, when 750,000,000 are also watching live on zoom links or some such streaming play... worldwide!!

OK I know my plea to always play your best team, is a sort of 'King Canute' thing for managers... but I fear the worse when the last vestiges of honesty disappear, and this starts at pitch side, not in the boardrooms.

OK rant over, thanks for joining in! ;)
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Well, football is really the most complicated team sports in the world. It’s nothing simple at all in pro level. :smirk: That’s why the evolution of playing style/philosophy has never been stalled. They become more and more complicated and a collection of formulas involving of passing, movement, positioning, psychological/social affinity are picked by different managers to apply to their general playing style no matter formation in a dynamic setting (real games), and decided and triggered by the players.l on the pitch. We can only say the goal is simple because the game is won by scoring more than opponents can.
 

MUnchies

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Maticmaker said:
I am simply expounding/moaning about, my own (pet) theory about why fan entertainment is no longer the driving cause for managers/teams.
Football is at its heart a simple game, but it's made to seem more complex, it's a kind 'complexity growth' in the game that expands to ensure more people get to 'dip their bread'... so to speak, a kind of variation on Parkinson's law (work expands to fill the time allowed for it).
All the meaningless stats ...it's the score that counts.
Even with VAR...... it's still down to the referee's decision.
All the chat from ex-pros/commentators/TV personalities, etc.... that tries to hide their bias, or allow them to build 'castles in the air' about interpretation of the rules.

We've seen what happens when the carpetbaggers (e.g., the likes of our current owners) take over the profitable clubs. I fear with the potential involvement of the likes of Netflix, Amazon, Disney+ etc. i.e., the mass (live) media producers, football will no longer be the working people's favourite sport, it will become a variation on Hollywood, especially when the advent/market positioning (world-wide) of the new Super League will knock the PL of its top spot, because that is what its being set up to do and why English clubs should stay away...far away.

Our game should value the customers it has already, because once they get turned off/jettisoned (e.g.) who needs 75,000 watching live in a stadium, when 750,000,000 are also watching live on zoom links or some such streaming play... worldwide!!

OK I know my plea to always play your best team, is a sort of 'King Canute' thing for managers... but I fear the worse when the last vestiges of honesty disappear, and this starts at pitch side, not in the boardrooms.

OK rant over, thanks for joining in! ;)
Click to expand...
WOW no disrespect but your post doesn't even make sense. You are rumbling at disney +, VAR, etc because in your mind the same eleven should be on the field even taking into account the tight schedule, international breaks, world cup etc. What's the point of a 23 man squad then?
 

giggs-beckham

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NLunited said:
First one they are up 2-0 after half hour.

I watched both matches: Dortmund was completely outclassed in both.

With possession style football. I know some here are trying to create a point that Ten Hag does not really favour a possession style, but that is bs.
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Hope you're right. Really want to see us dominate with possession
 

Maticmaker

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city-puma said:
We can only say the goal is simple because the game is won by scoring more than opponents can.
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See you do understand after all ;)

MUnchies said:
WOW no disrespect but your post doesn't even make sense. You are rumbling at disney +, VAR, etc because in your mind the same eleven should be on the field even taking into account the tight schedule, international breaks, world cup etc. What's the point of a 23 man squad then?
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It does to me, try reading it again!

Not the same eleven, the best eleven, the eleven in form, the eleven that are the fittest, the eleven whose performance will entertain the fans, the eleven who have not been beaten (yet)...i.e. the winning team...not an eleven made up just give someone else a rest, or because the manager is scared of dropping someone, or trying to make square pegs fit into round holes, or cannot settle on his team structure.
I have no objection to players being rotated as long as the team keeps winning, when its losing because of rotation (or weakness of squad players) then it is cheating the fans.

My point about VAR, and the mass media is that football is becoming an industry rather than a sport and therefore in future big returns are required for investors, even grounds holding 75000 (regularly) and mega stores merchandising cannot give the return-on-investment that media giants (in particular) will want, hence a super league is required, its aim will be to knock the PL off its perch (where have we heard that before) as the most saleable product at the moment. The momentum behind this (as we have seen) will come from Europe, where the various national leagues cannot hold a candle to the PL. Thats why I say the English clubs should stay away from this concept, they are already on the best spot at the moment.
 

georgipep

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Maticmaker said:
See you do understand after all ;)



It does to me, try reading it again!

Not the same eleven, the best eleven, the eleven in form, the eleven that are the fittest, the eleven whose performance will entertain the fans, the eleven who have not been beaten (yet)...i.e. the winning team...not an eleven made up just give someone else a rest, or because the manager is scared of dropping someone, or trying to make square pegs fit into round holes, or cannot settle on his team structure.
I have no objection to players being rotated as long as the team keeps winning, when its losing because of rotation (or weakness of squad players) then it is cheating the fans.

My point about VAR, and the mass media is that football is becoming an industry rather than a sport and therefore in future big returns are required for investors, even grounds holding 75000 (regularly) and mega stores merchandising cannot give the return-on-investment that media giants (in particular) will want, hence a super league is required, its aim will be to knock the PL off its perch (where have we heard that before) as the most saleable product at the moment. The momentum behind this (as we have seen) will come from Europe, where the various national leagues cannot hold a candle to the PL. Thats why I say the English clubs should stay away from this concept, they are already on the best spot at the moment.
Click to expand...


Football has been an industry long before you and I were born. It is also an evolving industry.
 

Shiva87

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Maticmaker said:
Yes, you can, unless there are injuries, then the player standing next in line for the shirt gets his chance... if he doesn't take it then it could be weeks before he gets another shot at it, best motivation in the world for a true professional.... 'carpe diem'.
Rio said the other day he loved playing two days per week because the normal training schedule, which bored him (apparently) was reduced to basic exercises

The reason players cannot play two matches a week because someone (possibly with a vested interest) tells them they can't?

If ETH is not going to put out his best team, then I would be grateful if he told me when and for those occasions the club refunded some of the ticket money.
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It's quite obvious isn't it. He is not going to play his best XI at Europa group stages. He would be smart to use that as a practice games. We'll get out of this group for sure - why play the best XI.

Instead, better to use the week training the best XI on his tactical stuff and use Europa as a way to keep the squad fit so they can have some sort of rhythm when injuries and suspension inevitably come around.

If you want to see the best XI, then watch the PL games.
 

Trequarista10

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Maticmaker said:
There you go, vested interests.... sports scientists who need to justify their salary.... and managers who needed excuses

Of course, I am that's what I am complaining about... do keep up!
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The well known sports science conspiracy racket!!!!
 

Devil81

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Really get a good feeling about him, he's dealing with the Ronaldo and Maguire situations well.

We're improving every match.
 

MUnchies

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Maticmaker said:
See you do understand after all ;)



It does to me, try reading it again!

Not the same eleven, the best eleven, the eleven in form, the eleven that are the fittest, the eleven whose performance will entertain the fans, the eleven who have not been beaten (yet)...i.e. the winning team...not an eleven made up just give someone else a rest, or because the manager is scared of dropping someone, or trying to make square pegs fit into round holes, or cannot settle on his team structure.
I have no objection to players being rotated as long as the team keeps winning, when its losing because of rotation (or weakness of squad players) then it is cheating the fans.

My point about VAR, and the mass media is that football is becoming an industry rather than a sport and therefore in future big returns are required for investors, even grounds holding 75000 (regularly) and mega stores merchandising cannot give the return-on-investment that media giants (in particular) will want, hence a super league is required, its aim will be to knock the PL off its perch (where have we heard that before) as the most saleable product at the moment. The momentum behind this (as we have seen) will come from Europe, where the various national leagues cannot hold a candle to the PL. Thats why I say the English clubs should stay away from this concept, they are already on the best spot at the moment.
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I understand what you mean, but the best eleven will be the same eleven without no injuries. It just would not be sustainable throughout the season if no players get injured, they will still need rest. Let's say the same best eleven wins 5 games in a row in the premier league, there is no way the ETH will select them in the next game against Worcester FC in a league cup game. He will surely rest most of the best starting eleven and play the second squad and kids. For you to suggest if the best players are available no matter what competition or opponent they should play is not practical and never has been.

Also football has always been commercial and a money making sports industry. It's maybe more prominent and clear now because of social media.
 

Tarrou

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Ole played the same team every week and everyone was fecked come the end of the season

I don’t think we need to listen to sports scientists to know fatigue is a real thing, we see evidence of it everywhere

look at Liverpool now after an exhaustive season last year.. knackered
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Maticmaker said:
Yes, you can, unless there are injuries, then the player standing next in line for the shirt gets his chance... if he doesn't take it then it could be weeks before he gets another shot at it, best motivation in the world for a true professional.... 'carpe diem'.
Rio said the other day he loved playing two days per week because the normal training schedule, which bored him (apparently) was reduced to basic exercises

The reason players cannot play two matches a week because someone (possibly with a vested interest) tells them they can't?

If ETH is not going to put out his best team, then I would be grateful if he told me when and for those occasions the club refunded some of the ticket money.
Click to expand...
I think the idea of rotation is resting players that actually need resting, not resting players for the sake of resting them, and as of now, we are not at the level where we can rest 5/6 starters in a game, the quality will drop significantly, the idea is to rest 2-3 players max, usually forwards and attacking mids but not the whole attacking unit (for example if you rest Rashford & Bruno, then Sancho & Antony must start), GK + back 4 should not be rested unless injured or really tired, because stability and familiarity at the back breeds solidity, and to get that, the back 4 must play together every game.

As of now, the strongest/best 11 based on current form is: -

DDG
Dalot Varane Martinez Malacia
McTominay Eriksen
Antony Bruno Sancho
Rashford
​
Few players have the quality to sneak into the above starting 11, like Martial and Casemiro.

an example of rotation would be

DDG
Dalot Varane Martinez Malacia
Fred Eriksen
Antony DvB Sancho
Ronaldo​

The idea is to maintain as much quality within the starting 11 as possible, and now we have 5 subs, this should allow the manager to be strategic in using the subs, to change tactics, or to rest a player, or to give game time.

For Europa League, League cup or FA Cup games with minnows, like a game vs a League 1 team or a team from a small nation in Europe like Cyprus, you may rest most of the starting 11 players and allow fringe players to start, Ten Hag must assess the strength of the opponent and make the right selection in terms of strength of fielded team.
 

Solius

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fallengt said:

I can do that too
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I hate when people do this.

You originally said "Go check the stat, Ajax had less ball possession than Dortmund & Spurs."

One of these (Dortmund) was just incorrect. Instead of admitting that you post one for Madrid which you did not originally mention. Just admit you were wrong in that instance instead of moving the goalposts.
 

Maticmaker

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OmarUnited4ever said:
I think the idea of rotation is resting players that actually need resting, not resting players for the sake of resting them,
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Agreed, but playing two games per week (3 to 4 hours? is not that much for people who have as much training and support as they do, is resting really what they need?

georgipep said:


Football has been an industry long before you and I were born. It is also an evolving industry.
Click to expand...
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:lol: that's a good likeness :lol:... not me mate, I precede the Ark, so my grandson tells me!

Shiva87 said:
If you want to see the best XI, then watch the PL games
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I want to see the best Xl in every game that United play, surely that is what all United fans want, especially those who pay up front!

MUnchies said:
Also football has always been commercial and a money-making sports industry.
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Thats not strictly true... the advent of the PL was what ushered in the fully (other than the top teams) commercial aspects, with TV coverage etc.

Trequarista10 said:
The well-known sports science conspiracy racket!!!!
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So, you've heard about it too? ;)
 

MDFC Manager

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Solius said:
I hate when people do this.

You originally said "Go check the stat, Ajax had less ball possession than Dortmund & Spurs."

One of these (Dortmund) was just incorrect. Instead of admitting that you post one for Madrid which you did not originally mention. Just admit you were wrong in that instance instead of moving the goalposts.
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It's ok, they're probably a politician
 

izak

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You can Smell what Papa Dutch is Cooking :drool:
 

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No Idea For Nickname said:
Go on Papa Dutch, teach them how to pass the ball with weaker foot, about time they learn.
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Not that we don’t know if the previous managers did this, as it seems an obvious thing to do ( always I thought professional players should easily be able to control a ball with either foot, not necessarily shoot with power with either)

but loving the fact he’s taking extra sessions himself with those who need it rather than leave it to others to do
 

JPRouve

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We need an rvn said:
Not that we don’t know if the previous managers did this, as it seems an obvious thing to do ( always I thought professional players should easily be able to control a ball with either foot, not necessarily shoot with power with either)

but loving the fact he’s taking extra sessions himself with those who need it rather than leave it to others to do
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I'm almost sure that LVG used to do it. I don't know about the others.
 

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JPRouve said:
I'm almost sure that LVG used to do it. I don't know about the others.
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I’m sure I heard stories of ole taking extra finishing sessions, but eth does seem to be more hands on and detailed than the previous few coaches. Plus a good combo of strict rules yet personable to the players

think we got the right guy in for the job
 

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Shiva87 said:
It's quite obvious isn't it. He is not going to play his best XI at Europa group stages. He would be smart to use that as a practice games. We'll get out of this group for sure - why play the best XI.

Instead, better to use the week training the best XI on his tactical stuff and use Europa as a way to keep the squad fit so they can have some sort of rhythm when injuries and suspension inevitably come around.

If you want to see the best XI, then watch the PL games.
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We need to win in Chisinău. First team all the way.
 
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